If you were a Christian, and then stopped being a Christian how old were you?

[secular_mom]

Having faith in God and being a Christian is 2 different things. Someone can choose to stop believing in God, but I honestly don't think a TRUE Christian is someone who can just stop. A Christian is someone who has placed their whole heart and lives in God's hands. That is not something that can be stopped, no matter what age you are. I do believe that someone can believe in God and then stop. The Bible says that even the demons believe... That doesn't mean that they are Christians!

This is the kind of crap that I hear from others all the time. Why do you feel the need to say this? I see Christians judging each other constantly spouting off about how X isn't a REAL Christian because REAL Christians don't Y, and saying things like, "Well, if you were a REAL Christian then you wouldn't have to ask such a question, you'd already know the answer". If that's what you want to believe, that's fine- but don't go telling ME that I wasn't REALLY a Christian in the first place because I no longer believe. It's comments like this that make me weary of talking to Christians, make me weary of becoming friends with Christians- Christians can be the most judgmental people (NO, not ALL of them are, but I've met so many it makes me sick). It's simply not YOUR place to tell others whether they were REALLY believers or not. What I hear is 'Well, you just weren't GOOD ENOUGH so what you called being Christian doesn't REALLY count' and I hear fear of the thought that people can 'lose' their beliefs so the person saying such things has to be bull headedly determined that such a thing only happens to FAKE Christians who didn't REALLY believe it all in the first place.

:rant:

[TJinLOCA]

I considered myself a Christian through college, but after awhile I realized that I was going to church out of habit (and because I really liked the parish & singing in the choir), but I actually didn't believe it anymore. When I married my husband (a devout "apatheist" - :D) in my late 20s, I pretty much admitted out loud for the first time that I really didn't believe in God.

 

I still go to church, though. Weird, huh? :) We have such a great one here - lots of community charity events, free music concerts, movie nights ... I absolutely love singing in the choir, and we have the only gay pastor in this entire very conservative area. :lol: It's worth it just to be able to mention our priest and his husband when people ask what church I attend. :thumbup1:

[Liz CA]

Faith, how wonderful that you have found the *real*God amidst all the bad teaching and negative examples.

Bless that professor who exemplified Christ to you.

So sad to read how many people wrote here that they were turned off by churches, church policy and individuals who proclaimed to be believers but did not model the true Christ.

[Lovedtodeath]

I went through a period of rebellion at about 23. It lasted a few years. I didn't vote in the poll.

[Lovedtodeath]

Having faith in God and being a Christian is 2 different things. Someone can choose to stop believing in God, but I honestly don't think a TRUE Christian is someone who can just stop.

There are examples in the Bible of people who stopped. There are also examples of people who sinned badly enough to be very severely reprimanded and even excommunicated but then came back. If you want the examples, shoot me a PM.:)

[Jennifer3141]

*feeling the love * :001_smile:

 

 

Well, you're supposed to! :grouphug:

 

And secular_mom, I nodded through your entire post. And that's the kind of mentality that is creating this present schism. I also personally believe it's the LEAST Christ-like behavior a person can exhibit. Why exactly would that pull anyone into religion is beyond me.

[Aubrey]

This is the kind of crap that I hear from others all the time. Why do you feel the need to say this? I see Christians judging each other constantly spouting off about how X isn't a REAL Christian because REAL Christians don't Y, and saying things like, "Well, if you were a REAL Christian then you wouldn't have to ask such a question, you'd already know the answer". If that's what you want to believe, that's fine- but don't go telling ME that I wasn't REALLY a Christian in the first place because I no longer believe. It's comments like this that make me weary of talking to Christians, make me weary of becoming friends with Christians- Christians can be the most judgmental people (NO, not ALL of them are, but I've met so many it makes me sick). It's simply not YOUR place to tell others whether they were REALLY believers or not. What I hear is 'Well, you just weren't GOOD ENOUGH so what you called being Christian doesn't REALLY count' and I hear fear of the thought that people can 'lose' their beliefs so the person saying such things has to be bull headedly determined that such a thing only happens to FAKE Christians who didn't REALLY believe it all in the first place.

:rant:

 

I once told a girl saying this kind of thing that I must not be a Real Christian then because I absolutely *could* choose not to believe. Since I was a Christian, she tried arguing the other way around. But I basically told her someday I'd walk away from the faith just to prove it. Of course, a few yrs later, I did.

 

I understand the theology behind it, but I don't think the people who preach it realize how it comes across. Or maybe they do--I hope not.

 

But isn't faith so much like love? There may be a season when it comes easy, when you're starry-eyed & your guy can do no wrong. And then there are seasons when you have to fight for it, when it *would* be easy to walk away. Those hard seasons, whether you walk away or not, don't take away the validity of the young love. And those hard seasons are really not for others to judge.

 

:grouphug:

[freethinkermama]

I once told a girl saying this kind of thing that I must not be a Real Christian then because I absolutely *could* choose not to believe. Since I was a Christian, she tried arguing the other way around. But I basically told her someday I'd walk away from the faith just to prove it. Of course, a few yrs later, I did.

 

I understand the theology behind it, but I don't think the people who preach it realize how it comes across. Or maybe they do--I hope not.

 

But isn't faith so much like love? There may be a season when it comes easy, when you're starry-eyed & your guy can do no wrong. And then there are seasons when you have to fight for it, when it *would* be easy to walk away. Those hard seasons, whether you walk away or not, don't take away the validity of the young love. And those hard seasons are really not for others to judge.

 

:grouphug:

 

It's not always easy to "walk away"! Plenty of apostates I've talked to have said it's the hardest thing they've ever done. Depression, fear of hell, loss of friends, an entire foundation of one's life--gone. It's terrifying. It's not easy. That's not something most devout people willingly go through. Many leave because they realize their religion is not true and they can't force themselves to believe again. That's hard, that's scary.

 

People who have really based their entire existence on their faith rarely saunter away.

 

While people may also point to things that pushed them out the door: hypocrisy, pain, etc. the point comes down to "I don't believe anymore". I think that's what people forget. Not, "I don't believe in Jesus because my Sunday School teacher was mean." But, "I don't believe in Jesus because, despite what Josh McDowell and other say, there's no real basis for believing in the Bible or his supernaturalness. Oh, and I began to question that based on the behavior of people who claimed to know him."

Edited March 30, 2011 by freethinkermama

[secular_mom]

It's not always easy to "walk away"! Plenty of apostates I've talked to have said it's the hardest thing they've ever done. Depression, fear of hell, loss of friends, an entire foundation of one's life--gone. It's terrifying. It's not easy. That's not something most devout people willingly go through. Many leave because they realize their religion is not true and they can't force themselves to believe again. That's hard, that's scary.

:iagree:Change is HARD, especially such fundamental change such as losing your religion, divorcing your spouse, etc. But I do appreciate your sentiment, Aubrey. :)

 

ETA: I could not CHOOSE to believe in God again. I don't think I chose to believe in him in the first place either- it's what I was raised with, everyone spoke about God as if he were a fact and it was just natural for me to believe in God and believe the bible. But I DID Believe. To me, God was just a fact and if someone didn't believe in God then something must've been wrong with them (maybe they were being possessed or oppressed by a demon or maybe Satan had tricked them or ...). I thought and was taught that I was SO lucky to have been born in a free country and to have been born to Christian parents because it would have been so much harder to find the One True God if I had been born in China or some other horrible communist country where people are raised to believe in God and Christians are persecuted.

I can't really present a short version of the process I went through as I shed those beliefs- it was too long and convoluted. I can say that I stopped believing in Church looooong before I stopped believing in the bible, and then God. I didn't equate Church with God and being Christian though. I didn't feel that I needed to go to a special building to worship God because He was everywhere all the time and He knew my heart. I didn't want to go congregate with such hypocrites who even did evil things (IMO) in the name of God.

 

Now, I just don't believe that any supernatural beings exist and I can't un-unbelieve that. It's like those wooden puzzles with scraps of wood glued together that look random the first time you look at it, but then you eventually see the word Jesus hidden in the mess and once you see that word you can't easily unsee it. I can't undo the process I went through, and my unbelief is not based on the actions of any other person or event. It's just based on my gradual 'enlightenment', if you will. I didn't wake up one day and say, "I don't want to believe in God anymore" and poof I just stopped.

Edited March 30, 2011 by secular_mom

[BlsdMama]

Wait, why are you having this conversation on this thread? :confused: :confused:

 

Can't people talk about why they aren't Christians without the Christians butting in and discussing the "truth" of their beliefs? Sheesh!

 

I'm sorry. I was actually trying to help? Essentially a Believer said that she believed that someone could not walk away if they were a true believer and I wanted to tell her that I believed that they could actually walk away and so this question was indeed valid. If what she says is true, the entire OP's original question is invalidated because if it is true, then no one who ever *really* believed COULD walk away, which I actually believe to be false.

 

Is that clear as mud? :confused: I promise, it made sense in my head when I typed it.

Edited March 30, 2011 by BlsdMama

[KarenNC]

I put 31-35 because that was my "official" break, but looking back I can see that I didn't fit any orthodox model of Christianity (and, frankly, true monotheism) at least as early as age 10. It just took 20+ years of trying extremely hard to find a way to stay something I could even nominally call "Christian" because that would have been infinitely easier.

[Lovedtodeath]

Oh, and I began to question that based on the behavior of people who claimed to know him."

and this is why there are people who talk about true Christians and false Christians.

[freethinkermama]

and this is why there are people who talk about true Christians and false Christians.

 

Sorry, doesn't change my point.

 

But, now I know, if you're mean, you're not a Christian.

 

Got it!

[Lady Florida.]

My comments in blue.

 

ETA: I could not CHOOSE to believe in God again. Exactly.

 

 

I don't think I chose to believe in him in the first place either- it's what I was raised with, everyone spoke about God as if he were a fact and it was just natural for me to believe in God and believe the bible. But I DID Believe. To me, God was just a fact

 

Yes. This. The few people I knew who didn't believe in God, I thought were just not enlightened. I didn't think they were bad, just that they didn't know any better.

 

 

Now, I just don't believe that any supernatural beings exist and I can't un-unbelieve that. This too. I can't just simply tell myself I'm going to believe that supernatural beings (or even One True Being) exist. I. Just. Can't.

 

I can't undo the process I went through, and my unbelief is not based on the actions of any other person or event. It's just based on my gradual 'enlightenment', if you will. I didn't wake up one day and say, "I don't want to believe in God anymore" and poof I just stopped. Same here. No "bad" Christians caused me to stop believing. What actually happened was that I read the entire bible for the first time in my life. Really read it. Using critical thinking skills. :001_smile:

 

 

 

All of the above is why I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that someone who was an atheist, could then believe in the supernatural.

[secular_mom]

My comments in blue.

 

 

 

All of the above is why I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that someone who was an atheist, could then believe in the supernatural.

I guess a person could be very anti-theist and then have an experience that for whatever reason causes them to believe a God exists.

[freethinkermama]

I guess a person could be very anti-theist and then have an experience that for whatever reason causes them to believe a God exists.

 

I tend to think so too. I tend to think it would be more of an "experiential" event, not necessarily rationality that would get them there (to theism or deism, I mean). But, I could be wrong.

[Lovedtodeath]

Sorry, doesn't change my point.

 

I wasn't trying to debate you. I was making my own point that happened to relate to yours. Okay, there is some sense in that some where.

But, now I know, if you're mean, you're not a Christian.

 

Got it!

:lol:

[july19]

My parents had no faith even before my brother died. Afterwards, it was non-existent. But, they wanted me to educate myself and make my own decision.

 

In high school, on my own volition, I went to our local church, went through confirmation, became baptized, all that jazz. My friends were encouraging, and it was nice. I felt like I needed to believe in something.

 

Afterwards, I began reading the Bible. Cover to cover. Took 5 months. And I remember I closed it when I was finally done, and I cried. I cried because there was a lot of material that I just...just couldn't believe. But, I decided that maybe it was because of my age. Surely, a 15 year old mind couldn't grasp the all knowing knowledge that the Bible contained. So I just sort of put my beliefs on hold.

 

I reread the Bible at 18. Cover to cover again. And again, I was saddened, but this time I was angry, too. Like I was lied to, almost. So I went to my minister, desperately seeking help. He tried answering my dozens of questions but after I continued to trip him up, he dismissed me, saying that I was a "precocious teen" who needs to "stop asking so many questions" and that I should "just believe".

 

Well, that did me in. I have since reread the Bible again, at age 25. I've discovered even more questions that the previous two reads didn't reveal. It just doesn't make sense in my head. I truly wish it did, though...I still have that "want" to believe, if that makes sense.

[Mom in High Heels]

now I know, if you're mean, you're not a Christian.

 

 

 

This may have to be my new signature line. :lol::lol::lol:

[Lovedtodeath]

"stop asking so many questions" and that I should "just believe".

I hate that attitude so much. :glare: Listen up: Questioning things does not equal a bad attitude.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[Aubrey]

It's not always easy to "walk away"! Plenty of apostates I've talked to have said it's the hardest thing they've ever done. Depression, fear of hell, loss of friends, an entire foundation of one's life--gone. It's terrifying. It's not easy. That's not something most devout people willingly go through. Many leave because they realize their religion is not true and they can't force themselves to believe again. That's hard, that's scary.

 

People who have really based their entire existence on their faith rarely saunter away.

 

While people may also point to things that pushed them out the door: hypocrisy, pain, etc. the point comes down to "I don't believe anymore". I think that's what people forget. Not, "I don't believe in Jesus because my Sunday School teacher was mean." But, "I don't believe in Jesus because, despite what Josh McDowell and other say, there's no real basis for believing in the Bible or his supernaturalness. Oh, and I began to question that based on the behavior of people who claimed to know him."

 

Ok, lol, you're right. I didn't mean "easy" in that way. It's not *really* easy to leave a marriage, either. I just meant...sometimes...I don't know how to put it now. It seems easier than the alternative, to keep fighting an exhausting battle of doubt, or...whatever the issues are.

[Jean in Newcastle]

OP here. I said in the Original Post that I do believe in the Christian doctrine of eternal security (once saved, always saved). I have theological reasons for believing that. I also have theological reasons for believing that you don't have to believe in that doctrine to be a Christian. If pressed to say if So-and-so was a "true believer" or not, my answer would be "How the hell should I know?"

 

BUT I think that it is ridiculous to come into this thread and tell people who don't believe (anymore) much more fundamental doctrines about God and Jesus to argue that point!

 

I don't think it's weird that I should ask people about their beliefs and their experiences even if I have a different belief and experience because IT'S NOT ABOUT ME. I'm truly interested in your answers.

[AlmiraGulch]

OP here. I said in the Original Post that I do believe in the Christian doctrine of eternal security (once saved, always saved). I have theological reasons for believing that.

 

Ok...please educate me, here.

 

I have already posted that I am no longer a Christian. At one point in my life, I absolutely was. I believed the whole nine yards (well....the core of it anyway). I was baptized. I confessed my sins. I asked for forgiveness. I prayed Jesus into my heart.

 

Now? It seems silly to me, almost. I WANTED it all to be true, but I just don't think it is. At all.

 

Even so, are you saying that because I was once "saved" (I think) that I still have a spot reserved for me in heaven, even though I've renounced the whole thing? Why would that be?

[Lady Florida.]

By definition an atheist doesn't believe in a god or a supreme being. This doesn't say they cannot believe in invisible purple people parading around their house. It also doesn't say why they don't believe. Do they not believe because they don't feel like it, or because it can't be proven scientifically?

 

 

 

 

Poor word choice on my part. I should have said a god or supreme being.

[Lovedtodeath]

Sorry, doesn't change my point.

 

But, now I know, if you're mean, you're not a Christian.

 

Got it!

Oh, well actually the people being written to in the Bible were true Christians and they had to be counseled about gossiping, judging, etc, etc... so I guess that isn't what I meant at all. We are none of us perfect, true Christians included.;)

[Joanne]

I voted "over 40" because it's been very recent that I've publically expressed my dis-association with identifying with Christians.

 

It's been a process, though, that started when someone in my mainline, liberal "Confirmation" class when I was a teen declined to continue with the process.

 

I guess, right now, I would say I am a deist. I do believe in God.

 

I actually believe in "Jesus".

 

But my belief in "Jesus" does not exclude beliefs in Paganism, Wicca, Islam, Judaism, etc.

 

I can't accept: hell, the "need" for salvation, the Old Testament God and a bunch of other stuff.

 

Editing to add: I grew up in a mainline, liberalish Presbyterian Church, was active in a bell choir that toured the world, went to a Presbyterian College, disassociated from relationship until I was 25, returned to formal Christianity at 29 and have been active in churches since then. I'll be 45 next month.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Joanne

[OH_Homeschooler]

It's amazing how so many of us really tried out the religion thing. As others, I really believed in everything I was taught in CCD. I remember conversations with my mom when I was little, asking her how it was possible for Jesus to rise from the dead and so on. And the answer was always to just believe. And when I first learned about the rapture, I don't think I slept for a week. So when Christians accuse atheists of being unenlightened, (and of course, promise to pray for us) I just want to scream. We've been there. We've put a WHOLE bunch more thought into this than most of them have.

 

I really admire Christians who do question their faith, even if their conclusion is the opposite of mine. It's the mindless acceptance of religious teachings, while accusing ME of being unenlightened, that really bugs me.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ok...please educate me, here.

 

I have already posted that I am no longer a Christian. At one point in my life, I absolutely was. I believed the whole nine yards (well....the core of it anyway). I was baptized. I confessed my sins. I asked for forgiveness. I prayed Jesus into my heart.

 

Now? It seems silly to me, almost. I WANTED it all to be true, but I just don't think it is. At all.

 

Even so, are you saying that because I was once "saved" (I think) that I still have a spot reserved for me in heaven, even though I've renounced the whole thing? Why would that be?

 

Well, I really didn't want to get into this because I really just wanted to know about other people's experiences! But since you asked so nicely, I'll answer.

 

I believe that God exists outside of our belief - that He's a reality. And that Jesus Christ was a historical person who was truly the God -Man and that when He died, He had the ability to do what a normal person would not be able to do: to be a substitute for us in that death so that if we accept His death on our behalf, it really changes our relationship with God. I believe that His death was an actual death (He didn't just swoon or have a near death experience) but that what really counted was that He experienced spiritual death - separation from God for a period of time. Because He was a perfect man with no sinful nature, He was able to be a true substitute in that spiritual death for us. Because He was perfect God, He was able to be raised from that death.

 

I believe that when someone accepts Christ's death in their stead, that they are moved from a situation in which they are separated from God into a situation where they have a relationship with God and now share Christ's righteousness. I believe that invisible change is dependent wholly on God's grace and His faithfulness in having provided that sacrifice, not on my belief, even though my belief and acceptance of what He did is what allowed Him to make that change in me. That invisible change of getting Christ's righteousness is what is talked about when the Bible says that we are a "new creature/creation" (English word depends on the translation). I'm given eternal life as part of that invisible package as well as a bunch of other things. I believe that this entire package of invisible changes are just as real as anything you can actually see and touch. So - to finally answer your question - if I've had that entire package of real invisible changes given to me by God when I accepted Christ's sacrifice for me, those changes don't just go away by a change in my thinking.

[AlmiraGulch]

Well, I really didn't want to get into this because I really just wanted to know about other people's experiences! But since you asked so nicely, I'll answer.

 

I believe that God exists outside of our belief - that He's a reality. And that Jesus Christ was a historical person who was truly the God -Man and that when He died, He had the ability to do what a normal person would not be able to do: to be a substitute for us in that death so that if we accept His death on our behalf, it really changes our relationship with God. I believe that His death was an actual death (He didn't just swoon or have a near death experience) but that what really counted was that He experienced spiritual death - separation from God for a period of time. Because He was a perfect man with no sinful nature, He was able to be a true substitute in that spiritual death for us. Because He was perfect God, He was able to be raised from that death.

 

I believe that when someone accepts Christ's death in their stead, that they are moved from a situation in which they are separated from God into a situation where they have a relationship with God and now share Christ's righteousness. I believe that invisible change is dependent wholly on God's grace and His faithfulness in having provided that sacrifice, not on my belief, even though my belief and acceptance of what He did is what allowed Him to make that change in me. That invisible change of getting Christ's righteousness is what is talked about when the Bible says that we are a "new creature/creation" (English word depends on the translation). I'm given eternal life as part of that invisible package as well as a bunch of other things. I believe that this entire package of invisible changes are just as real as anything you can actually see and touch. So - to finally answer your question - if I've had that entire package of real invisible changes given to me by God when I accepted Christ's sacrifice for me, those changes don't just go away by a change in my thinking.

 

This is fascinating to me, and I truly appreciate your taking the time to respond so eloquently. Kind of like the sky is blue, whether you think it is or not. It is what it is (and MAN how I had that statement!), and my belief in it at this juncture, or lack thereof, is irrelevant.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

It's amazing how so many of us really tried out the religion thing. As others, I really believed in everything I was taught in CCD. I remember conversations with my mom when I was little, asking her how it was possible for Jesus to rise from the dead and so on. And the answer was always to just believe. And when I first learned about the rapture, I don't think I slept for a week. So when Christians accuse atheists of being unenlightened, (and of course, promise to pray for us) I just want to scream. We've been there. We've put a WHOLE bunch more thought into this than most of them have.

I think that unless you give details, there is always going to be someone who thinks that you haven't heard Orthodox, or LDS, or Baptist, or JW beliefs (just picking on me and my best friends here :D) or etc. so you still need to be "enlightened".

[OH_Homeschooler]

I think that unless you give details, there is always going to be someone who thinks that you haven't heard Orthodox, or LDS, or Baptist, or JW beliefs (just picking on me and my best friends here :D) or etc. so you still need to be "enlightened".

 

Hmm, I wish it WERE true that they'd back off if you gave details. I actually don't discuss this much IRL but on message boards, I go nuts. I tell the same story I told here about all the attempts I made before giving up on religion, and I still get excuses. "Oh, you just didn't get to know the RIGHT kind of Christian. Don't let that deter you" and so on. No matter what, they know better than you. :glare:

[freethinkermama]

Well, I really didn't want to get into this because I really just wanted to know about other people's experiences! But since you asked so nicely, I'll answer.

 

I believe that God exists outside of our belief - that He's a reality. And that Jesus Christ was a historical person who was truly the God -Man and that when He died, He had the ability to do what a normal person would not be able to do: to be a substitute for us in that death so that if we accept His death on our behalf, it really changes our relationship with God. I believe that His death was an actual death (He didn't just swoon or have a near death experience) but that what really counted was that He experienced spiritual death - separation from God for a period of time. Because He was a perfect man with no sinful nature, He was able to be a true substitute in that spiritual death for us. Because He was perfect God, He was able to be raised from that death.

 

I believe that when someone accepts Christ's death in their stead, that they are moved from a situation in which they are separated from God into a situation where they have a relationship with God and now share Christ's righteousness. I believe that invisible change is dependent wholly on God's grace and His faithfulness in having provided that sacrifice, not on my belief, even though my belief and acceptance of what He did is what allowed Him to make that change in me. That invisible change of getting Christ's righteousness is what is talked about when the Bible says that we are a "new creature/creation" (English word depends on the translation). I'm given eternal life as part of that invisible package as well as a bunch of other things. I believe that this entire package of invisible changes are just as real as anything you can actually see and touch. So - to finally answer your question - if I've had that entire package of real invisible changes given to me by God when I accepted Christ's sacrifice for me, those changes don't just go away by a change in my thinking.

 

Yep. That was what I believed too. :D

[Rosie_0801]

Religious quests tend to make me think of that saying that there is nothing new under the sun. Like the Muslim ladies on the thread have described, I found out there was a name for what I believed. What a surprise! :lol: Ah, the arrogance of youth. Of course someone had already thought of it. :D That was a cool discovery.

 

Rosie

[Geek]

I am disgusted with the Christians who can't stay out of a non-Christian thread. You just have to get your sermon in, and you actually think this helps your cause...?

 

As for the original question, I'd have to ask "Which time?" If you mean when did I totally leave it behind and become an atheist, I'd answer "after 40". Have I wrestled with all of this since I was around 10? Yes.

 

Was I born again? Yes. Did I pray, fast, journal madly, witness in the streets? Yes. Did I realize this was empty and look elsewhere? Yes, and I converted to Catholicism where I tried hard to be a good Catholic for 17 years.

 

A few years ago I finally decided I was going to push my questions to their logical end and not retreat, no matter what I found in those cobweb-infested corners. I kept filtering out things, trying to see what was left and just focus on worshiping that.

 

In the end I was left with absolutely nothing. It all fell apart when I gave myself permission to really question things and not play the Just Have Faith card anymore.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Geek

[Impish]

I am disgusted with the Christians who can't stay out of a non-Christian thread. You just have to get your sermon in, and you actually think this helps your cause...?

I didn't see where Christians were forbidden to take part.

[mommymilkies]

Mine's confusing. My mother raised me agnostic/atheist. But one of my stepfathers took me to Mass with him. Then my next Stepfather was Jewish and I was raised Jewish for a loooong time. When I was 12-13, though, I had a terrible nightmare and decided to become Catholic. I never officially converted and within a year gave up on that. So I don't know if I count? lol I've tried several times to convert to different denominations but I have such fundamental differences with their beliefs that I don't think I ever will again. I think more than anything I want the sense of community and faith that I know I don't have now.

[secular_mom]

I didn't see where Christians were forbidden to take part.

I agree that Christians weren't forbidden from posting in the thread, but I also agree that this thread is not the appropriate spot for sermons.

Of course most people believe that their beliefs are the Right ones- if they didn't think that then they wouldn't hold those beliefs or they'd be questioning them. Of course people think that 'if you just Understood XYZ, Then you'd believe ABC', but to say such a thing is simply insulting- it implies that we just didn't do it 'right' to begin with and we are too stupid to go to the right places to find The Real Answers.

[hana]

I was about 21-22, and it was the people, not the doctrine that led me to turn away. I reflected on my experiences with many of the Christians in my life and decided I could no longer continue that path:

1. My questions were dismissed.

2. As a child, my confidence in a church leader was betrayed (a secret passed around the church that wouldn't have mattered except that I was painfully shy).

3. I was told that my brother with Downs syndrome would go to hell because he was not mentally capable of accepting Christ as savior.

4. As a child, my family was looked down on by members of the church because I was being raised only by my mother (my father died when I was young).

5. I was sexually abused by two men who claimed to be Christian.

6. When I was twenty, I was not allowed to attend events for the women of the church (shopping trips, weekend away) because I was not married.

 

As I looked back on all of this, I no longer felt that I fit.

[Lovedtodeath]

I really admire Christians who do question their faith, even if their conclusion is the opposite of mine. It's the mindless acceptance of religious teachings, while accusing ME of being unenlightened, that really bugs me.

I am wondering how you know someone hasn't questioned their faith?

Oh, and I began to question that based on the behavior of people who claimed to know him."

 

and this is why there are people who talk about true Christians and false Christians.

 

Sorry, doesn't change my point.

 

For the record, I sincerely do not believe that there are whole groups of people (or one) that are true Christians and whole groups of people that are not. That is not what I was implying. You can find really bad examples and hypocrites everywhere. Trust me, you can. I was saying that this is why it is talked about, nothing more.

 

And in my own experience I have found that Christians are harder to be friends with because of the tendency to be self righteous or judgmental.

 

Of course not. Forbidding isn't necessary, though, where grownups self-police. Perhaps the next time believers are having a supportive thread I'll step in and explain why they must be missing the mark because surely they don't have all the information they need. That would go over well, don't you think?

 

Um, no.

I get it now. Lo siento. It has been removed. Edited March 31, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[snipsnsnailsx5]

How does one stop being a Christian? Is it when they stop attending church? Or stop believing in God?

 

I went through a rough patch around 15-16 yrs old. I even got pregnant (with my oldest DS). But I always still believed in God, however I wasn't attending church and I wasn't doing very "Christian-like" behavior.

 

When I got married a few years later and started having more kids, we went back to church. We tried a few churches before joining the Mormon church three years ago.

[texasmama]

When I was 21, I tossed out the concept of sin and ****ation. I left the church. I joined AA and found more love, genuineness and acceptance there than I ever had in any church. I came back to the faith slowly. I am now a conservative, Bible believing, accepting, loving follower of Jesus. I call myself a Christian. My beef was really not ever with God - it was with men...and therefore, churches who were run by men. I still have a beef with a lot of it.

[swimmermom3]

I didn't see where Christians were forbidden to take part.

 

Impish, it is not that at all. I responded on this thread because, well, it was Jean doing the asking and I figured that she does want to know. It felt relatively "safe" if there is such a feeling as that on one of these threads. The one post with the "sermon" was a bit like showing up at a rape survivors' meeting and telling everyone that if they had only dressed more appropriately they wouldn't have been raped. Okay. I might be a bit over the top, but it is all I could think of. Hopefully, you see what I mean. The post was out of place. On the other hand, being asked genuine, respectful questions by someone who is trying to broaden their own understanding is just fine in my book.

[Joanne]

When I was 21, I tossed out the concept of sin and ****ation. I left the church. I joined AA and found more love, genuineness and acceptance there than I ever had in any church. I came back to the faith slowly. I am now a conservative, Bible believing, accepting, loving follower of Jesus. I call myself a Christian. My beef was really not ever with God - it was with men...and therefore, churches who were run by men. I still have a beef with a lot of it.

 

I agree with the words in italics. For me, my 20 years in those rooms convinced me 1) God exists 2) God answers no matter how/what/through which channel we approach him.

[MariannNOVA]

But isn't faith so much like love? There may be a season when it comes easy, when you're starry-eyed & your guy can do no wrong. And then there are seasons when you have to fight for it, when it *would* be easy to walk away. Those hard seasons, whether you walk away or not, don't take away the validity of the young love. And those hard seasons are really not for others to judge.

 

:grouphug:

 

I didn't answer in the poll, but Aubrey's words in italics and red above struck a chord with me. I went through a 'season' two years ago (I have literally only weeks ago come out on that other side of a long, dark tunnel) where I considered walking away. I thought that I had 'left' it all there on the side of the road and worked through what I had to work through. I do think now that while (at the time) I thought I was 'intellectually' working it all out, maybe it wasn't just an 'intellectual' exercise...my spiritual self was on the 'walk' with the rest of me aching for healing and relief.

 

I did, however, stop attending the 'feel good,' superficial Presbyterian Church that we had been attending. I have since found comfort going back to my roots of Roman Catholicism.

 

I'll go back and answer now -- dear, dear Jean: I hope there's a 55+ age group. ;)

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'll go back and answer now -- dear, dear Jean: I hope there's a 55+ age group. ;)

 

Over 40 works!

[MariannNOVA]

Over 40 works!

 

So I see! :D I like that -- 'over 40' -- sounds better than the

hard core #. ;)

[Jean in Newcastle]

So I see! :D I like that -- 'over 40' -- sounds better than the

hard core #. ;)

 

That's because an "over 40" woman made the poll:D

[MariannNOVA]

That's because an "over 40" woman made the poll:D

 

:grouphug:

 

And, thanks -- this has been an interesting thread.:001_smile:

[texasmama]

I agree with the words in italics. For me, my 20 years in those rooms convinced me 1) God exists 2) God answers no matter how/what/through which channel we approach him.

 

Yes.:001_smile:

 

And I think you italicized everything. (I was looking closely with my middle aged eyes...;)) Do you just wholeheartedly agree with everything I said, Joanne? :D

[Geek]

I didn't see where Christians were forbidden to take part.

Of course not. Forbidding isn't necessary, though, where grownups self-police. Perhaps the next time believers are having a supportive thread I'll step in and explain why they must be missing the mark because surely they don't have all the information they need. That would go over well, don't you think?

 

Um, no.

 

Plus it would be disrespectful. I don't proselytize.

 

I agree that Christians weren't forbidden from posting in the thread, but I also agree that this thread is not the appropriate spot for sermons.

Of course most people believe that their beliefs are the Right ones- if they didn't think that then they wouldn't hold those beliefs or they'd be questioning them. Of course people think that 'if you just Understood XYZ, Then you'd believe ABC', but to say such a thing is simply insulting- it implies that we just didn't do it 'right' to begin with and we are too stupid to go to the right places to find The Real Answers.

Nailed it.

 

Impish, it is not that at all. I responded on this thread because, well, it was Jean doing the asking and I figured that she does want to know. It felt relatively "safe" if there is such a feeling as that on one of these threads. The one post with the "sermon" was a bit like showing up at a rape survivors' meeting and telling everyone that if they had only dressed more appropriately they wouldn't have been raped.

It does feel kind of like that. It's as though some people really don't get that we've already covered that territory. Such folks simply cannot grasp that someone can really and truly believe with all of their heart and be passionately in love with Jesus...and then walk away.

 

Denial is easier to stomach than accepting that real belief can evaporate.

 

I agree with the words in italics. For me, my 20 years in those rooms convinced me 1) God exists 2) God answers no matter how/what/through which channel we approach him.

And my 43 years on earth have convinced me that 1) the odds of any god existing are very slim, and 2) the idea of a christian god answering ANY prayer I can ask about my puny life while children starve to death tells me that such a god is highly immoral and not worth acknowledging let alone worshiping.

 

Please click for full effect.

 

If people want to tell us why they believe in a thread about why people don't, so be it. But I'd like to share one reason why I don't in response.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Geek