HappyGrace Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 because I am not there myself yet. :( Does anyone else feel this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aquiverfull Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Yes! :grouphug: Sorry, I have no advice but wanted you to know that you are not alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Yes. Struggling with the transition myself and I am not so sure I have mastered the grammar stage. I have been realizing that I know in my head what I am suppose to do but I do not often know how to practicailly help my daughter along. I am :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg_puppy Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 YES!!! There are certain skills that I know I need to teach, but I keep putting them off because I am not ready. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) I'm glad I'm not alone! Dd11 yesterday: while we were reading Archimedes and the Door of Science she wanted to know what exactly is the *relationship* between gravity, density, and weight? (the book had touched on these subjects but she wanted to go way deeper) I was like :confused: You mean I can no longer just read what the book says and you're good with that? And it's like this all day, every day now, in every subject. I mean, I'm so glad this is happening, but I am so ill equipped to help her. I don't know any of this stuff. Edited March 25, 2011 by HappyGrace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) You're not failing at all! You are just entering the transition phase along WITH DD. Not many who are trying to implement TWTM received a classical education (I never did, at any rate), so we are schooling along WITH our children. We are in the rhetoric stage now (2 DSs, gr. 11 and 12), and I just wanted to encourage you to keep with it -- it is a process, not an overnight "light switch" between one stage and the next (thank goodness! -- gives my old brain time to transition, too!) And the more you invest now, the more you are really going to enjoy those later Logic stage and Rhetoric stage years! So when those questions on the relationship between gravity weight and density come up -- time for a research bunny trail! Pull out the science encyclopedia. Do a google search. Check out Wikipedia's free online encyclopedia. Don't forget specific websites for specific topics, such as Rader's science websites, perfect for Logic stage questions (http://www.chem4kids.com; http://www.physics4kids.com; http://www.biology4kids.com; http://www.geography4kids.com; http://www.cosmos4kids.com). And when you do a search, sometimes do an image search, or a search for a video clip -- you may not always get to the answer you were looking for, but you'll find some cool things along the way! Do as much together as you can for as long as you can. Read aloud together. Discuss everything. Ask questions and search for answers together. It's okay to not have an answer for everything! That's real life. Do critical thinking stuff and logic puzzles now. Discuss movies and TV shows and world events now; experiment together with chemistry, cooking, various life processes. (What do you think will be the consequence of his/her choice? Did you see that coming -- what was a clue? What happens when we mix these things together -- and do you think we could substitute this other thing? etc. etc. etc.) In the later middle school grades, learn those literary elements so you'll have the tools for analyzing not only literature, but lots of other things, too. Eventually do a Formal Logic program together, maybe around grade 9. One baby step at a time! And ENJOY your journey! You just had an exciting moment seeing your DD taking a step into a new area -- rejoice! You are seeing DD actually take ownership and involvement in her own educational process! And relax -- you're doing a great job! :) You go, girl! BEST wishes, Lori D. Edited March 25, 2011 by Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 :iagree: Well said, Lori! By the time my oldest son finished Algebra I, Rod and Staff Grammar 6, and Traditional Logic I and II, he had gotten himself through the logic stage almost by himself. I didn't even realize it was happening. I didn't recognize the process until I realized he was beginning the rhetoric stage, and then I looked back over the last two years to figure out what happened! He's a gifted and talented young man and once he was given the proper materials he just didn't need much help in advancing his thinking. (How did I realize he was beginning the rhetoric stage? I've caught him leading adult Bible classes from his seat in the audience. I noticed he was engaging in Socratic dialogue, leading the teacher through the premises to build the arguments, and then humbly acting as if he himself had learned something when the teacher reached the logical conclusion and expressed it. I asked him later what possessed him to do that, and he said that he disagreed with the teacher and it occurred to him that enthymemes were the answer. He said he thought that's what Jesus was doing in the temple when he was twelve.) Now that I realize how the logic stage went for Nathaniel, I feel better prepared to teach my rising seventh grader. He won't make all of the connections on his own in the same way, but I think we can achieve growth together if he also studies Algebra, Logic, and Latin concurrently. I am convinced that Grammar, Literature, and solid Arithmetic prepare the mind for Algebra, Latin, and Logic. World History, Theology or Philosophy, Algebra, and Logic prepare the mind for the rhetoric level. These are the tools of learning. They shape the brain in a special way. Classical education works. We just have to fearlessly show up for it every day and provide our children with the right tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 because I am not there myself yet. :( Does anyone else feel this way? I have to say that yes, I do feel this way these days!!!! I was thinking about posting something like this myself, because lately, I feel so overwhelmed with trying to keep up with grammar, math, logic, and Latin. And nevermind that I feel way behind my kids in history/science/literature knowledge. Every day I struggle with feelings of inadequacy when I sit down to go through the skills work with my kids. "Oh, look, yet another thing I didn't know how to do." And it takes me a minute or two more to figure it out, than it takes my kids. I am really beating myself up about it these days. Lori D. and Dulcimeramy, thanks for the encouraging posts!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 You're not failing at all! You are just entering the transition phase along WITH DD. Not many who are trying to implement TWTM received a classical education (I never did, at any rate), so we are schooling along WITH our children. We are in the rhetoric stage now (2 DSs, gr. 11 and 12), and I just wanted to encourage you to keep with it -- it is a process, not an overnight "light switch" between one stage and the next (thank goodness! -- gives my old brain time to transition, too!) And the more you invest now, the more you are really going to enjoy those later Logic stage and Rhetoric stage years! So when those questions on the relationship between gravity weight and density come up -- time for a research bunny trail! Pull out the science encyclopedia. Do a google search. Check out Wikipedia's free online encyclopedia. Don't forget specific websites for specific topics, such as Rader's science websites, perfect for Logic stage questions (www.chem4kids.com; www.physics4kids.com; www.biology4kids.com; www.geography4kids.com; www.cosmos4kids.com). And when you do a search, sometimes do an image search, or a search for a video clip -- you may not always get to the answer you were looking for, but you'll find some cool things along the way! Do as much together as you can for as long as you can. Read aloud together. Discuss everything. Ask questions and search for answers together. It's okay to not have an answer for everything! That's real life. Do critical thinking stuff and logic puzzles now. Discuss movies and TV shows and world events now; experiment together with chemistry, cooking, various life processes. (What do you think will be the consequence of his/her choice? Did you see that coming -- what was a clue? What happens when we mix these things together -- and do you think we could substitute this other thing? etc. etc. etc.) In the later middle school grades, learn those literary elements so you'll have the tools for analyzing not only literature, but lots of other things, too. Eventually do a Formal Logic program together, maybe around grade 9. One baby step at a time! And ENJOY your journey! You just had an exciting moment seeing your DD taking a step into a new area -- rejoice! You are seeing DD actually take ownership and involvement in her own educational process! And relax -- you're doing a great job! :) You go, girl! BEST wishes, Lori D. Thank you for this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 sigh..... I'm right there with you. My concern is history. If I don't know history, how can I help DS make those connections? I suppose I'll learn right along with him. I've been busy learning about logic stage writing this year so I can be more effective in that area. I figure if I can be ahead of the skills, the content is easier for me to learn as we go. THANK YOU Lori and Dulcimeramy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Me! I'm really wondering how I made it this far because I don't have the skills I'm supposed to start working on with ds. I guess we'll struggle through. Thanks for letting me know it's not just us.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 Thanks for the commiseration and the encouraging words! :) And the practical help-maybe this won't be so bad. Just keep swimming.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 sigh..... I'm right there with you. My concern is history. If I don't know history, how can I help DS make those connections? I suppose I'll learn right along with him. I've been busy learning about logic stage writing this year so I can be more effective in that area. I figure if I can be ahead of the skills, the content is easier for me to learn as we go. THANK YOU Lori and Dulcimeramy! Hi Capt :001_smile: I'm reminded of the old James Taylor song "Don't know much about history - don't know much trigonometry . . ." I'm in the same boat with history. Right now I'm reading SWB's HOAW and the DK's History: The Definitive Visual Guide. I'm noting the important people, places and events in each chapter (as SWB suggests in TWTM). I've just ordered Gilgamesh - my goal is to read a chapter a day in HOAW, then start HOMW. I'm attempting to give my self the classical HS education I never had before ds 11 in in HS. Along the way, I'm making some of the connections I need to make to prepare for the logic stage. Then there's science, of course - no amount of reading will prepare me to teach that :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 sigh..... I'm right there with you. My concern is history. If I don't know history, how can I help DS make those connections? History is about people. What do you know about people? History is also about ideas. As much as I hate philosophy, it is a very good thing to study to aid understanding of history. Making the "right" connection isn't as important as making a sensible connection. There isn't one right answer to all that much in history. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Making the "right" connection isn't as important as making a sensible connection. There isn't one right answer to all that much in history. Rosie Very true! But I can't do that w/out grammar stage knowledge! Someone had suggested at the high school board to sit down w/ a notebook and Kingfisher History Encyclopedia and read straight through taking notes. She did it over a few months. Quick and dirty crash course. I'm going to try it this summer. Then I can move onto SWB's HoAW and HoMW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Just a small note of encouragement. Somehow, my kids were able to extend their educations well beyond mine. My adult children are very well educated, much better educated than I. They learned at the feet of the masters...their words in their books. I just made myself available....and I just made many materials available, and modeled a lifelong love of learn g. Some courses , like logic, I doled out to online courses...I will probably do that with Latin this year for dd...no sweat. She will share what she learns with me. I think the big thing is not to be afraid if your kid gets ahead of you in their studies...but to make sure YOU are always studying too..and being open to providing the best materials for that child when they need them. Many, many of our greatest thinkers, were self taught...and encouraged along by so done who really cared. Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 :iagree: My DS is already ahead of me in physics and that's ok. I enjoy learning it along with him. History I want to learn for me! It's just very difficult to find the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northcoast Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I, too, just wanted to say thank you to all who posted encouraging words. Thanks for sharing some of what you did in the logic stage. I have a 6th grader and the "why" questions are starting. I haven't known how to deal with it. I appreciate the encouragement to learn along with your kids. It's something I need to do. Now I just need more hours in the day! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 (How did I realize he was beginning the rhetoric stage? I've caught him leading adult Bible classes from his seat in the audience. I noticed he was engaging in Socratic dialogue, leading the teacher through the premises to build the arguments, and then humbly acting as if he himself had learned something when the teacher reached the logical conclusion and expressed it. I asked him later what possessed him to do that, and he said that he disagreed with the teacher and it occurred to him that enthymemes were the answer. He said he thought that's what Jesus was doing in the temple when he was twelve.) Now that I realize how the logic stage went for Nathaniel, I feel better prepared to teach my rising seventh grader. He won't make all of the connections on his own in the same way, but I think we can achieve growth together if he also studies Algebra, Logic, and Latin concurrently. I am convinced that Grammar, Literature, and solid Arithmetic prepare the mind for Algebra, Latin, and Logic. World History, Theology or Philosophy, Algebra, and Logic prepare the mind for the rhetoric level. These are the tools of learning. They shape the brain in a special way. Good Lord! That must have been amazing to watch! I hope He strikes lightening here too because I'm rubbing the sticks together all by myself with not so much as a wiff of smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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