So what do YOU think about voting third party in a U.S.A. election?

[Peek a Boo]

We were discussing this in another thread:

 

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=202676#post202676

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by beansprouts

#2: Reality is there are two candidates. A third party vote is a wasted vote, and potentially a vote for the worse of two evils. AFAICS there is no option for me but to choose between two people I do not like...

--------------------

 

Me:

 

I strongly disagree with this.

 

I absolutely believe that America has earned the bad candidates we have today because we can be talked into playing some twisted political game instead of voting our conscience. If we don't hold ourselves accountable to our own conscience --why should we expect our elected officials to do the same??!!

 

If i stay home and DON'T vote, who gets my wasted vote??

It's simply not assigned to anyone, period.

 

I have no problem voting third party or writing in someone cuz if I do that, then i am COMPLETELY convinced that it really doesn't matter which of the other 2 would win.

 

This actually sounds like "new thread" material, but I'm fixin' to take 5 kids and a dog camping by myself this weekend. I'd miss it, lol.

 

 

and yeah....my Limbaugh-listenin' Right Wing Wacko Talk Radio Nut dh is already pretty livid that i am planning to write in Ron Paul my kids are getting quite a bit of exposure to gvt discussion tho.....!

=============

 

[back to the present]

i survived camping w/ my 5 kiddos, and am ready to check out some responses to this issue. I've pretty much made up my mind, but I know there are some who are still investigating opinions and effects of voting third party.

so have at it :)

[Amy in Orlando]

I would LOVE to see a strong third, even fourth, party develop. In the meantime, I do think it's a vote lost, but I respect your right to write a name in. I like Ron Paul in so many ways, but he's just not the "guy" for me.

 

I DO think we might have the same husband, though. ROFL.

[RoughCollie]

I think it is a wasted vote, which is a shame because lots of times I prefer someone other than the Democrat or Republican du jour.

[Peek a Boo]

I think it is a wasted vote, which is a shame because lots of times I prefer someone other than the Democrat or Republican du jour.

 

 

oh come on!! you gotta tell us more than that! ;)

 

I wanna know WHY you think it's a wasted vote:

what's the purpose of a vote?

is not voting wasting your vote?

should you vote for someone you think doesn't deserve the job?

that kinda stuff...... itching ears and everything :)

[Sue G in PA]

Peekaboo...you sound so much like my dad! His favorite phrase: "The American people deserve everything they are gonna get!". It's like he isn't a part of that group or something! I always hated that phrase, but I see now what he really means. I'm writing someone in. It absolutely disgusts me the candidates we have running right now. That's just my opinion, though. I can't wait to tell my dad that he's not alone!

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm going to change my name to "None of the Above" and get myself on the next ballot. What do y'all think?

[melissel]

I absolutely think that voters who would typically support the party opposite mine should go ahead and cast that third-party ballot. You're right! It's a protest vote! Have your say in November!

 

:D :lol:

[melissel]

I'm going to change my name to "None of the Above" and get myself on the next ballot. What do y'all think?

 

I'd vote for you :lol:

[Lady Katherine]

Fundamentally, I agree that we should vote for the candidate we support, no matter what his/her chances. Realisitically, a third-party vote is a wasted vote.

[Soph the vet]

If everyone who wished a third party candidate would actually vote for the third party it may not be wasted at all. Even if the third party candidate got 10-15% of the popular vote would that not say something to the system as it stands? Frankly, I think it is time for change:D but not like one candidate likes to use the word. We are such an "instant everything" culture but a change to the party system is not going to be "instant". Voting third party means you are in it for the long haul...that this election year you make your very small voice heard...but then next time you've gotten more people to see the light, so to speak, and your voice gets louder and louder.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

If everyone who wished a third party candidate would actually vote for the third party it may not be wasted at all. Even if the third party candidate got 10-15% of the popular vote would that not say something to the system as it stands? Frankly, I think it is time for change:D but not like one candidate likes to use the word. We are such an "instant everything" culture but a change to the party system is not going to be "instant". Voting third party means you are in it for the long haul...that this election year you make your very small voice heard...but then next time you've gotten more people to see the light, so to speak, and your voice gets louder and louder.

 

I totally agree with this. In fact, sometimes even in a two party race there could be an argument for wasting your vote on one party. :D That is silly.

I think every effort should be made by the American people to break the two party system. More choice is better. The political candidates should represent the American people well. They obviously do not do that because so many people don't really like any of the candidates at all, but they are going to vote for "the lesser of two evils." :tongue_smilie:

 

Also I think it is not so much that the American people really want a two party system, as much as it is the media embracing it, and defining the political process for us, and we allow them to do it.

 

It is the traditional American way to want your voice to be heard, not to resign yourself to the way thing are.

[Jenny in Atl]

I've done it before and often. I tend to vote third party in local, state, and Fed elections, if there is a choice. For this one, it will all depend on who wins in never ending dem primary. If it's "her"...

I'll be off to vote for Bob Barr (if he gets the Lib nod).

[kokotg]

I absolutely think that voters who would typically support the party opposite mine should go ahead and cast that third-party ballot. You're right! It's a protest vote! Have your say in November!

 

:D :lol:

 

yes, this! :thumbup:

 

seriously, I think there are valid reasons to vote third party. If, as you say, you genuinely have no preference whatsoever between the two major party candidates, then have at it. Personally, arguments for the sameness of the two political parties (whether made by Ralph Nader, libertarians, or Dan Zanes (obscure kid music reference!)) have never convinced me. That said, I actually voted third party in 2000, but it was only because I lived in Massachusetts at the time and, the electoral college being what it is, my vote really didn't matter. So I felt okay registering a sort of protest, generally discontent with the political process sort of vote. Had I been in a state even slightly less blue, I wouldn't have done it.

[kalanamak]

I would LOVE to see a strong third, even fourth, party develop. In the meantime, I do think it's a vote lost, but I respect your right to write a name in. I like Ron Paul in so many ways, but he's just not the "guy" for me.

 

 

My folks lived in a state that ALWAYS voted overwhelmingly for the Republican candidate. If they voted third party, it was not a "wasted vote", as the end result was the same. My mum told me she often did, just to encourage others to try.

[Mama Lynx]

How are we ever going to break the stranglehold of the two major parties, unless we're willing to take our votes elsewhere?

 

Yes, I strongly support third-party voting.

[Margaret in GA]

(Nader in 2000) and frankly, we should be encouraging another party. In my most skeptical moments, I am sure that the point of 2 parties is to blame, blame, blame the other party for not getting anything done. I mean, look at the spending going on in Washington! It makes no difference which "side of the aisle" they're on, they are spending way more than we're bringing in. Worse than that, they are entirely beholden to lobbyists ...

 

Oh, and I agree with another poster that said the media perpetuates this. They really do. Viewership in the Main Stream Media is all about conflict-- dems vs. repubs makes a nice, neat story. Another party would be too confusing for that narrative. It might encourage independent thought and we mustn't have that. Just look at the media's "response" to free-wheeling Republican Ron Paul.

 

waiting for Bloomberg,

Margaret

[KidsHappen]

If everyone who wished a third party candidate would actually vote for the third party it may not be wasted at all. Even if the third party candidate got 10-15% of the popular vote would that not say something to the system as it stands? Voting third party means you are in it for the long haul...that this election year you make your very small voice heard...but then next time you've gotten more people to see the light, so to speak, and your voice gets louder and louder.

 

:iagree: I have voted third party for the last few elections and it looks like I will be doing it again. I hear the wasted vote argument everytime but I have to vote for what I believe in. Hopefully, someday it will make a difference.

[OnTheBrink]

So how does the electoral college fit into this? From my (admittedly limited) understanding, WE don't really elect anyone; the electoral college does. Yeah, I know they're supposed to represent their districts, but I don't believe it. IL is a Dem state and always votes Dem, despite how many Republicans there are registered. It makes me wonder if voting is nothing but a sham.

 

Despite that, I'll vote. I don't like one single person running, but I'll vote. Maybe I'll write someone in.

[Diana in OR]

The only wasted vote is the one not exercised.

 

 

[kokotg]

At least in most states (I think Maine and one other state divide up their electoral college votes proportionately), states are winner take all in the electoral college. So if 50.1% of Illinois' voters vote for the Dem, the Dem gets all the electoral college votes. And vice versa. That's how the 2000 election happened; Gore won the popular vote but lost the election (well, it wasn't JUST the electoral college, in that case, but...) So when I say my vote didn't matter in Massachusetts, I mean that Massachusetts is always going to go to the Democrat by a wide margin--it wasn't going to be close, so what I did didn't have any chance of affecting the outcome. I felt, at the time, that driving up the percentage of third party votes and registering my dissatisfaction with politics as usual would send a bigger message than voting for the candidate I actually wanted to win.

[lauriep]

I vote third party! I understand the concern about wasting votes and I've gone with the "lesser of two evils" approach before but not anymore. The lesser of two evils is still evil. I want to participate in the election, so I go third party.

[Guest Shanna]

How can it be a wasted vote if you are voting what you believe to be the right choice for you? We vote in order to tell the govt what we believe to be the right choice. If you vote that way then your vote is not wasted.

 

I am by the way one of those " Limbaugh-listenin' Right Wing Wacko Talk Radio Nut" people and if I had my choice I would not be voting this election. But, my husband tells me I have to. So I will be writing in Ron Paul.

[yslek]

I voted 3rd party last time, and will again this time. (Dh is so fed up with the whole election thing, he's thinking of not voting at all. Our stat is always D, so he doesn't see the point.)

 

It does feel like a wasted vote, but I'm doing it anyway. It seems that there are so many people who want to vote for someone else, but don't. I think that's too bad. If all of us voted with our conscience, the 3rd party votes might not be so "wasted" after all. :)

 

Kelsy

[Krista in LA]

When I told a friend this she had a fit and said I might as well just stay home. I think if both of the major parties have a candidate that is not acceptable, it is my responsibility to say so by voting for someone else. If I thought either the dem or rep candidate acceptable, I would probably vote for them. I think this year especially is a great time to vote third party. I know so many people that are not happy with the major candidates but yet will vote for one of them. What if everyone who didn't like them voted 3rd party? That would surely make a statement. But instead, everyone is too afraid to waste their vote. Don't waste it, make it known that you don't support the other candidates.

 

I am hoping that Ron Paul might run third party but if he doesn't, I just might have to vote for Chuck Baldwin who is running on the Constitution party ticket and happens to agree with a lot of what Ron Paul says. http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cbarchive_20080502.html

[Peek a Boo]

Fundamentally, I agree that we should vote for the candidate we support, no matter what his/her chances. Realisitically, a third-party vote is a wasted vote.

 

 

ok Katherine-- now what I'm interested in is WHY it's considered a wasted vote....? :D

[nancypants]

I say vote for who you most agree with on all the issues if you most want to communicate your actual beliefs. If you care most about keeping a certain individual or party out of office though, vote the party line. I have a high respect for everyone who votes their conscience whether that be voting against the person with whom they disagree the most or voting for the person with whom they most agree. In my opinion, both are admirable ways of "dealing with" one's political views.

[Mamagistra]

I'm going to change my name to "None of the Above" and get myself on the next ballot. What do y'all think?

 

:hurray: I'd vote for you! ::raises Mike's:: :D

[Mamagistra]

So I will be writing in Ron Paul.

 

:hurray: :party: :hurray:

[Tutor]

I always vote my conscience over "electability" (whatever that is). This usually means I write in a candidate who didn't make it through the primary or vote third party. I haven't decided how I am voting in this election yet. I cannot vote for any of the top three, but I haven't examined the third party choices thoroughly yet, and I am waiting to see if any more hats are thrown into the ring once the DP choses its candidate.

 

Given how many times I hear "I'd vote for Candidate X, but I think it wastes my vote, so I'm going to vote for a more likely candidate," I am convinced that if every one of those people actually DID vote for Candidate X, he or she would fare amazingly well.

[MomofSeven]

I tried with all my might to vote a certain candidate in the PA primary and just could not, with all my gumption, do it. I don't consider it a wasted vote because it's my vote and it represents my conscience and it holds as much value as anyone else's vote.

 

It may not be strategically smart, but if enough folks vote their conscience, maybe we would have some formidable candidates to choose from.

[brehon]

The only wasted vote is the one not exercised.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

I used to think one should vote the "lesser of two evils" (or perhaps the "lesser of two incompetents" would be a better description). I don't think that way now. I don't necessarily think the rise of a third party would be a panacea for our current political ills.

[beansprouts]

Fundamentally, I agree that we should vote for the candidate we support, no matter what his/her chances. Realisitically, a third-party vote is a wasted vote.

 

Realistically, a Republican vote in my state is a wasted vote. I just might go ahead and vote for someone I actually LIKE ;)

 

Thanks for starting the thread, Peek! I have been busy for a week or so but am catching up now...

 

:lurk5:

[riada]

Fundamentally, I agree that we should vote for the candidate we support, no matter what his/her chances. Realisitically, a third-party vote is a wasted vote.

:iagree: Realistically it it between two candidates and voting for a third party would be a waste of a vote. You might as well bite the bullet and select between the two- as hard as that can be to do. That way you avoid the worst of the two. That's just my opinion. :)

[beansprouts]

ok Katherine-- now what I'm interested in is WHY it's considered a wasted vote....? :D

 

I am not Katherine, but I was quoted in the op. The reason I said a third party vote was a wasted vote was because a third party candidate couldn't possibly win the presidency.

 

I am finding the arguments posted here to be very persuasive and thought provoking... still reading...

[Peek a Boo]

I am not Katherine, but I was quoted in the op. The reason I said a third party vote was a wasted vote was because a third party candidate couldn't possibly win the presidency.

 

I am finding the arguments posted here to be very persuasive and thought provoking... still reading...

 

 

I think the biggest discrepancy in the argument is WHY one votes. If we are voting for different reasons, then we won't be able to come to a definitive conclusion on whether I waste my vote by voting third party, or you waste YOUR vote by voting for someone that you might not agree with just because they might win :)

 

i do believe that if any of the main candidates DO fit your criteria for a good candidate, then it is obviously not a wasted vote. Personally speaking, anyway ;)

[5webblets]

I agree that it's a wasted vote, but I also respect your right to vote for whomever you want.

Lindsay

[DIY-DY]

I absolutely believe that America has earned the bad candidates we have today because we can be talked into playing some twisted political game instead of voting our conscience. If we don't hold ourselves accountable to our own conscience --why should we expect our elected officials to do the same??!!...:)

 

If I don't vote my concsience, I'm effectually lying. :D

 

I used to be of the "wasted vote" category. However, I've become so sick and tired of the winning candidate's party taking off on a legislation binge, claiming that their "win" shows what The People Truly Want. No, it doesn't. It shows, all too often, what the people are less repulsed by. (But repulsed, nonetheless.) That never makes it to the forefront of the legislating table, though, does it? ;)

 

However, until third party votes start racking up enough points that we can force both major parties to pause and say, "Oh, you mean you aren't drinking our Kool-Aid with gusto?", this kind of default-legislation is going to continue to erode our liberties and increase Federal power until we are no longer a recognizable country.

 

So yes, I'll vote third party. I'll do it proudly and without flinching. Because I just can't lie about it and put my endorsement behind a candidate who will twist my vote to mean I want his/her form of legislative oversight instead of the other's. I don't want the red Kool-Aid, and I don't want the Blue Kool-Aid, thanks.

 

Dy

[PariSarah]

It's only if you believe that this election is the only one that matters, that your vote has only immediate repercussions, that you can believe that such a vote is wasted.

 

Third-party candidates and votes can (do not always, but they can) put pressure on the two reigning parties, signal the dynamics of localities (leading to change at the local level), and draw media attention to otherwise neglected persons, issues, and constituencies. And it's not entirely ludicrous to believe that sustained, dedicated effort over several decades might lead to a viable third (and fourth and fifth) party. The average young American does not have a decades-long attention-span, and so I do think it's an outside shot. But it's not entirely ludicrous.

 

Third-party candidates do not win the presidential election, and they likely won't for a long time. But that is simply not the only measure of success or importance, and thus not the only factor that should go into a voter's decision-making. Sure, there might be particular elections that are so important that one might sacrifice a long-term goal for the immediate, urgent need. But in general, I think a third-party vote can absolutely be in line with responsible participation in the electoral process.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It's only if you believe that this election is the only one that matters, that your vote has only immediate repercussions, that you can believe that such a vote is wasted.

 

Third-party candidates and votes can (do not always, but they can) put pressure on the two reigning parties, signal the dynamics of localities (leading to change at the local level), and draw media attention to otherwise neglected persons, issues, and constituencies. And it's not entirely ludicrous to believe that sustained, dedicated effort over several decades might lead to a viable third (and fourth and fifth) party. The average young American does not have a decades-long attention-span, and so I do think it's an outside shot. But it's not entirely ludicrous.

 

Third-party candidates do not win the presidential election, and they likely won't for a long time. But that is simply not the only measure of success or importance, and thus not the only factor that should go into a voter's decision-making. Sure, there might be particular elections that are so important that one might sacrifice a long-term goal for the immediate, urgent need. But in general, I think a third-party vote can absolutely be in line with responsible participation in the electoral process.

 

I think that the way our electoral college and congressional votes are structured, that we will tend to stay a two party system. However, I think that it is quite possible for the parties to change over time. After all, we don't have a Whig or a Federalist on the ticket.

I paid a lot of attention to European politics when we lived there. A multi party system isn't necessarily a whole lot better. They have to form coalitions in order to form a government. It really isn't that different from what happens through the primary season where a candidate has to moderate his stances in order to present himself/herself as representing a broad swatch of the populace. In a multi party system, this merging happens after the elections instead of before.

I would vote third party if I thought there were a third party that actually represented my views. In its absence, I'll probably focus on donating to lower races so that the people I'd like to see in office in 10-20 years can actually survive that long.

[Jenn in Mo]

I cannot vote against my conscience and I cannot believe that it is a wasted effort. Especially this year. I haven't met a single person this year who cared for either party's candidates. I haven't met a single person who is not outright disgusted with the options before us. Over and over again I hear people say that they have never seen a year with candidates this undesirable.

 

So....what if all of these people wrote in someone else? If everyone who can't stand the idea of voting Rep/Dem actually voted for someone they liked.....it really could happen. If my small town did it, Ron Paul would be a shoe-in. I don't think my small town necessarily represents any other town, but....what if?

 

 

 

p.s. Mamagistra has great hair.

[Guest]

I know so many people that are not happy with the major candidates but yet will vote for one of them. What if everyone who didn't like them voted 3rd party? That would surely make a statement. But instead, everyone is too afraid to waste their vote. Don't waste it, make it known that you don't support the other candidates.

 

:iagree: The fear of "wasting" one's vote perpetuates the stranglehold which the media and two major parties have on our country's political system.

[Bells]

I agree with Lady Katherine - but - I'd like to be part of a critical mass that made a 3rd party candidate viable.