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Anyone use Harvey's Grammar?


mymonkeybug
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Guest Dulcimeramy

I used Harvey's with my oldest son when he was 10. He is an exceptional student, and I quickly found that my other above-average boys could not handle Harvey's. They love Rod and Staff, though!

 

1. Are you very solid in grammar?

2. Are you very familiar with the archaic language of the time?

3. Have your children studied McGuffey's Readers and other classical learning materials?

4. Are your children very solid in English skills apart from grammar?

 

If you can't answer all of these questions in the affirmative, I don't advise using Harvey's for the grammar stage. Rod and Staff is very rigorous and thorough, but much easier to use in modern times. If I had known about R&S, I wouldn't have used Harvey's at all.

 

(I do love it. I love old schoolbooks!)

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Guest Dulcimeramy

I forgot to mention that Classical Writing curriculum uses Harvey's. I've never used CW, but I've heard that they align the grammar lessons with their writing program and make Harvey's somewhat easier to teach.

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Still trying to find a good grammar program as we enter our third year of hs'ing.

 

I use it for myself! I would think it would be more for "older kids who now need to learn grammar". My 8 year old is no where near it.

 

I like the language (ok, I'm an old-fashionist). When did copulative verbs become linking verbs?

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I use it for myself! I would think it would be more for "older kids who now need to learn grammar". My 8 year old is no where near it.

 

I have a soon to be 9 year old and a soon to 12 year old.

 

I like the language (ok, I'm an old-fashionist). When did copulative verbs become linking verbs?

 

I am very old fashioned when it comes to education. I feel anything used prior to, oh say about 1900, seems to really have produced a highly intellectual class of people. People that know how to think and know how to find answers, know how to use the brain that is not just taking up space between the ears.

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1. Are you very solid in grammar?

2. Are you very familiar with the archaic language of the time?

3. Have your children studied McGuffey's Readers and other classical learning materials?

4. Are your children very solid in English skills apart from grammar?

 

(I do love it. I love old schoolbooks!)

 

Regardless of whether I can give an affirmative YES to any of your questions, wouldn't it be a fun challenge to try? We could all, all three of us, get a better grasp of grammar by using this program I would think. I mean the elementary book was used back in the late 1800's with who else? Elementary aged students. I would not however use the Revised Harvey's Grammar on my middle schooler until I felt he had a good grasp of what the elementary book attempts to teach.

 

Heck, worst case scenario, we shelve it for a bit and try something else and go back to Harvey's later. Oh wait, I use it for myself while they use something else ;)

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I am very old fashioned when it comes to education. I feel anything used prior to, oh say about 1900, seems to really have produced a highly intellectual class of people. People that know how to think and know how to find answers, know how to use the brain that is not just taking up space between the ears.

 

Well, two thoughts about 18th century education:

1) the bright ones are the ones we hear about. Joe Schmoe didn't go down in history

2) the duller students didn't finish school

 

I have a sister who was born pre-war, and the schoolwork she did in the 50s was plenty demanding. She had Latin, diagramming, etc, and I went to the same schools 20 years later and had brothers scattered in between. At least in our small, college-town midwest, the schools tanked in the mid-sixties.

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Guest Dulcimeramy
I use it for myself! I would think it would be more for "older kids who now need to learn grammar". My 8 year old is no where near it.

 

I like the language (ok, I'm an old-fashionist). When did copulative verbs become linking verbs?

 

I don't know. Nobody teaches about the subjunctive anymore, either. Maybe because no one talks like that anymore? At least, I've never seen a tweet in the subjunctive mood.

 

Nate was glad he'd learned the word 'copula' in grammar once he started formal Logic. I do think Harvey's Grammar prepared him well for Logic. (He went on to R&S after Harvey instead of to the more advanced Harvey.)

 

I think Harvey's is awesome, just not for beginners. Those old-timey schoolkids were used to the verbiage and their teachers understood the material. We have to have those same elements to succeed today.

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I think Harvey's is awesome, just not for beginners. Those old-timey schoolkids were used to the verbiage and their teachers understood the material. We have to have those same elements to succeed today.

 

 

See, I want to produce those types of people today. I would love for my children to be able to be well educated and knowledgable and certainly well spoken. Wouldn't it be nice if people didn't rape the English language anymore!

 

I'm all for taking so-called words like 'yo', 'sup', 'my bad', 'fitty', and the like out of use. If my children so much as even think of using words like that, they feel the whack on the back of the head before I even need to do it. LOL!!!

 

Maybe I am being absurd in thinking teaching my two children this way will have a HUGE impact on society, but a girl can dream can't she?

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Guest Dulcimeramy
See, I want to produce those types of people today. I would love for my children to be able to be well educated and knowledgable and certainly well spoken. Wouldn't it be nice if people didn't rape the English language anymore!

 

I'm all for taking so-called words like 'yo', 'sup', 'my bad', 'fitty', and the like out of use. If my children so much as even think of using words like that, they feel the whack on the back of the head before I even need to do it. LOL!!!

 

Maybe I am being absurd in thinking teaching my two children this way will have a HUGE impact on society, but a girl can dream can't she?

 

If you are absurd, so am I. I totally agree with you. There is nothing more important than the education of tomorrow's leaders.

 

I am watching my classically homeschooled teenagers as they begin to interact more with the modern world, and I am so pleased that I made this educational choice for them. Their logic and literacy skills are already opening so many doors for their futures. I can't wait to see what they do as adults!

 

How long have you been homeschooling? What have your children done so far in English? Did you teach them to read with phonics? What have you done for vocabulary and literature? (Peter Rabbit vs. Dick and Jane)

 

I don't want to discourage you from using Harvey's Grammar. I just wanted to give a heads-up about the learning curve if you and your children have not been working with brainy old books before now.

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How long have you been homeschooling? What have your children done so far in English? Did you teach them to read with phonics? What have you done for vocabulary and literature? (Peter Rabbit vs. Dick and Jane)

 

I don't want to discourage you from using Harvey's Grammar. I just wanted to give a heads-up about the learning curve if you and your children have not been working with brainy old books before now.

 

We are finishing up our second year hs'ing. My kids were public schooled where they were taught to read using whatever phonics or lack thereof...they are both superb readers though and can't get enough books. Daughter dear is a weak speller though and sonny boy is a great speller. It's the grammar of it all they both could use some help with, but then again, so could I with a refresher.

 

I have spent the last two years de-public educating them :blink:

 

I am still trying to figure out what works honestly. It is mind boggling what curriculum options are out there. Honestly, I can't see myself spending $200 or more on something like Phonics Road regardless of whether it is a fabulous program or not. Not knocking it, just citing it as an example.

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I don't want to discourage you from using Harvey's Grammar. I just wanted to give a heads-up about the learning curve if you and your children have not been working with brainy old books before now.

 

Winston Grammar? Frode Jensen's Grammar Land? Any good suggestions?????

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Guest Dulcimeramy
Winston Grammar? Frode Jensen's Grammar Land? Any good suggestions?????

 

I can tell you are a kindred spirit about saving money and using old books! My boys have never been to public school, but they are also excellent readers and have the same kind of Mama as your kids, so maybe your kids would like the same materials my boys like. Here are my English curriculum picks, all tried-and-true with my four sons:

 

1. Rod and Staff English

 

2. Elson or McGuffey Readers (for copywork, narration, dictation, vocabulary, reading aloud, and comprehension questions)

 

3. Webster's Speller

 

I understand about not paying for AAS or PR. I got started with Harvey's Grammar and McGuffey Readers a decade ago because of the low price! Also, like you, I wanted my children to be able to think so clearly and well. I have branched out to other materials, but they have to pass that high standard AND be affordable.

 

For grammar, Rod and Staff is very good. By the time you get to the end of 6th grade, it includes everything that Harvey's Elementary includes (I think). The books continue into high school, too. It will absolutely get your child to the same level of 'parsing' that Laura Ingalls Wilder demonstrated in Little Town on the Prairie, but the teacher guide will hold your hand every step of the way. It contains all the answers and teaches you how to teach very rigorous grammar.

 

R&S is (comparatively) cheap and reusable. R&S has excellent resale values on the boards here, too, because it is recommended in WTM.

 

Look at R&S samples here: www.rodandstaffbooks.com

(If you are strongly opposed to using Christian materials, I've heard that Winston Grammar is a favorite among those who prefer secular programs. I've never used it.)

 

In my opinion, those of us who love really old-school methods will like the results that come from using old readers. My oldest son used McGuffey Readers, but my second oldest hated them! I really, really wanted him to have that strong vocabulary and good moral instruction, so I was very glad when I found Elson Readers. My second son has completed four years of Elson and I am very pleased with his growth and maturity in language.

 

Maybe your kids would prefer Elson, too, if they love to read but began in public schools. Elson's stories are more engaging than McGuffey's by far.

 

Look at Elson Readers, including excerpts, here:

 

http://lcbcbooks.com/excerpts.html

 

You might like Webster's Speller for your daughter. If you do a search for Webster's here, you'll find posts by Elizabeth about how even an excellent reader like your daughter can achieve excellent spelling, too, by going back to the ba, be, bi, bo, bu and working through the syllabary. Webster's Speller is totally free at www.donpotter.net. I have used it for my children and it is awesome.

 

I just use it in an old-fashioned way: Copy out the list on the blackboard every day for a week, then have a spelling bee on Friday. My kids like that method. Elizabeth has some games and other ideas for making it more fun on her site.

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We used Shurley Grammar, level 5 before using Harvey's and moving into the Classical Writing program. Shurley 5 gives very young students the nuts and bolts of the 8 parts of speech. It gives them loads of practice on easy sentences. Harveys then is more than a review of those parts of speech for it takes them deeper into the subject, not only with the pos, but also with other structures in sentences. I would recommend that approach to your children because it gives them one year of solid grounding in the very basics of grammar making them ready for the pretty quick pace and depth of Harveys. JMO

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