Jump to content

Menu

Help me here. I'm trying to figure out how to...


Recommended Posts

schedule or work with this eclectic mix of GB, gb, and primary sources I've been finding to go with our history for next year. For instance I found the cookbook of the Robert E. Lee family, which goes into all kinds of interesting (to dd) details on not only their cooking but housekeeping, role of the wife, etc. I have a diary of a 14 yo girl during the Civil War. I have another 300+ page book on the changing roles of women in the past century. So these are books from the adult section, books that need to be chunked up and chewed on to get something out of. But how do I DO that? I could plan a chapter a day, 3 days a week. I could have a basic weekly reading task with study sheets or questions or essay responses required. I could do a book a week and have these women's issues books alternate with other more GB/gb type stuff. I could have women's issues running as a parallel thread alongside our regular readings and spread the books out. I could... I don't know.

 

I just need a little help to take the leap here. I'm *this* close to having what I want, and I don't even know how to use it or what to do with it. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think your DD is MUCH more of a reader, and is able to do a heavier load of work, than our DSs, so my answer is most likely not too much help, BUT...

 

Being totally honest here, the only primary source stuff we were ever able to get in there was the page quoting an original author about every 3-5 pages in the Spielvogel Human Odyssey textbook for the 2 years we used it, and then for the year we used Notgrass American History, we managed to get through about 75% of material in the accompanying source document volume. That was a huge reason why I got the Notgrass, was it was a relief to have had someone pre-select the "important stuff", and then schedule it, and have it work amount-wise with the amount of textbook reading.

 

Resources you mentioned, while cool, if they were any longer than excerpts out of a brochure from a museum visit (LOL), just didn't make it into our day. Didn't have the time, and, frankly, DSs didn't have the interest. So, I limited primary source documents to just a small handful of critical things to include as the very occasional "and now for something different" moment in our history studies.

 

It would be nice to say we were able to do History completely the WTM-way, but... it was too much for us. And if we were only going to be able to have time (and memory space in the brain!) for only so much, for the most part, I made the decision for it to be the Declaration of Independence rather than the cookbook.

 

What seemed to be of more interest to DSs, and help History STICK, were:

- discussion

- field trips

- documentaries

- feature films set in historical time periods (a sort-of "caught-not-taught" history/culture/geography)

- historical fiction

- some Great Books obviously set in certain time periods

 

 

The one place I was able to "sneak" extra resources in was in having DSs write a longer history paper (1 per semester) -- perhaps that's when your DD could do some of that primary source reading; give her a very specific topic that requires reading excerpts of these primary sources for info and quotes for a research paper.

 

 

Hoping I am no longer banned from the Board for being a "slacker." :tongue_smilie: And hoping you will be able to find a good balance for your history studies! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if this is helpful, but we plan on doing two streams of history next year, sort of. We will use a spine that we will read on a regular basis. In addition we're doing an ambling schedule of humanities for the same time period. The humanities part will lag behind what we're reading about in the spine, as we plan to spend more time in one period of the timeline. You could do something like that. I'm not sure if this makes sense as I have a dog barking in my ear, she's trying to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The one place I was able to "sneak" extra resources in was in having DSs write a longer history paper (1 per semester) -- perhaps that's when your DD could do some of that primary source reading; give her a very specific topic that requires reading excerpts of these primary sources for info and quotes for a research paper.

 

 

Hoping I am no longer banned from the Board for being a "slacker." :tongue_smilie: And hoping you will be able to find a good balance for your history studies! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Lori, of course you're not a slacker!!! LOL That's why I asked for help, because I wanted someone to shake things up and show me a different way of using them. I'm going to chew on everyone's posts, but just with your 1st one I'm sitting here jaw-dropped at the beautiful simplicity of it. You're totally right that I could set it up with a list of projects to chose from that USE the book. Different approach, but gets us to the same place. You don't interact with a historical cookbook in the same way as you do All Quiet on the Western Front, lol.

 

So thanks! You really got the wheels churning in here! Now to read the other responses. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if this is helpful, but we plan on doing two streams of history next year, sort of. We will use a spine that we will read on a regular basis. In addition we're doing an ambling schedule of humanities for the same time period. The humanities part will lag behind what we're reading about in the spine, as we plan to spend more time in one period of the timeline. You could do something like that. I'm not sure if this makes sense as I have a dog barking in my ear, she's trying to play.

 

Yup, that's definitely where I'm thinking to go. My trouble was I got too many parallel tracks in my mind (women's issues, GB, lit, hands-on/smells of the time period). I mean at some point you have to pare it down, lol. But when I combine the women's issues books and TURN THEM INTO the hands-on and smalls of history and multi-week projects, now that's efficient.

 

So you're going to let the history go ahead of the GB/humanities choices at times? Interesting. I'll have to give myself a bit of freedom there. I'm still working on our lists. Whether I'm over-ambitious in any of this remains to be seen, lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you listened to the Great Books: History as Literature lecture? I noticed it the other day when I was getting an audio book. As soon as I am better, I'm going to listen to it.

 

Hmmm, knowing me, I had the chance to hear SWB give that talk last year and didn't go. I'm an avowed history hater, pathetic but true. I've tried 20 ways to get out of it, desperately thought of doing TOG, and kept going back to the idea that we still needed some flexibility to fit her. I could be nuts. So anyways, you're right, that talk would help me a lot. Thanks for mentioning it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PS. Lori, my dd can read a LoTR book in a night, so yes she's a reader. Even so, I think what I've found will give her a run for her money, lol. That's again why I keep thunking myself and trying to do a reality check, because at some point you really do overswamp them. Conan Doyle did that to her this year, hehe. She started slowing down and ranking books, because suddenly she couldn't FLY through them. I also don't need to KILL the things she loves, if that makes sense. I just need just enough ways for her to interact with the materials that she doesn't get overwhelmed and fail to do what she COULD do enjoyably. If that makes sense. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... I could set it up with a list of projects to chose from that USE the book. Different approach, but gets us to the same place. You don't interact with a historical cookbook in the same way as you do All Quiet on the Western Front, lol.

 

 

Projects -- yes!

 

It doesn't have to be research papers. It can definitely be a specific hands-on project. A homeschooling friend has a son with LDs who could not do textbooks or take notes from a lecture; and he hated historical fiction. So in order to accomplish their History credit, he voluntarily did research and then MADE chain mail and several Medieval weapons, and so did a very specialized warfare focus on Medieval History. Worked great!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup, it wasn't until your post that I got a vision for that. I get sort of worn out if we do that for *everything*. However doing it for *some* of the books is good. I've been taking the whole night just to salivate on it. I like that we can alternate the way we're working through books, doing some with projects, some with a more literature-driven approach, and some thematically a la GB. I just hadn't seen that. Should make it fun too. :)

 

The more I sit here, the more I realize it doesn't even have to be *that* distinct. It could be that ALL those modalities are used every week. I just didn't have a vision for it. She loves to DO history, breathe it, live it. We already have visions of sewing our way through history. Sigh, one more thing to research. Anybody know where I find reasonably accurate historical costume patterns? I wanted to tackle say 4: Civil War, Titanic, 50's (poodle skirts), and ???. That's as far as we got.

Edited by OhElizabeth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anybody know where I find reasonably accurate historical costume patterns? I wanted to tackle say 4: Civil War, Titanic, 50's (poodle skirts), and ???. That's as far as we got.

 

Does your dd wear women's sizes yet or is she still in children's? The mainstream pattern companies have been making more and more historical patterns but the sizes (mostly) limited to women's and small girls. We had a difficult time until dd16 moved up in size.

 

And have you considered National History Day as a project focus for your dd? It sounds like her thing. www.nhd.org

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Elizabeth,

 

A thought: it's very easy to get caught up in planning. One of the things that tends to happen to me in the spring. When the kids are busy doing their "independent" work, I often found myself at the computer trying to piece together the next thing. The next ta-da. Often I went too far too fast.

 

If your daughter loves this stuff, you might think about letting her do some of the research and find, accept, discard, organize, and schedule some of the resources. Maybe she could be working with you. Or you could work next to her. If she really likes projects and how they fit within time periods.... If she really likes the details, she might really like the research.

 

I would just hate for you to spend a ton of time putting something together for her that might not work. And a gentle caution: you're getting the logic-stage education here. She's not. She's not doing the research and making the connections and seeing how the parts fit together to make a whole. You are. And you say you hate this stuff, and she loves it.

 

Wouldn't it be more productive to involve her in THIS process? The logic stage is all about making connections. Wouldn't this Deciding What to do When and How and to What Extent process be a fantastic introduction to a logic-stage education of this time period. If you organize it all, you may find that you've obtaining the logic-stage understanding and your plan actually pushes her interaction back down into the grammar stage. She's done little of the organizing. You've done it for her. Grammar stage kids accept data given to them. Logic stage kids organize information; they decide what's important and what isn't; they unearth connections; AND they learn that they can't do it all - they MUST choose.

 

Educationally junior high can be a great time to push kids to generate a plan and then work the PLAN!

 

Don't want to be a pain. :001_smile: Just offering up another perspective.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Elizabeth,

 

A thought: it's very easy to get caught up in planning. One of the things that tends to happen to me in the spring. When the kids are busy doing their "independent" work, I often found myself at the computer trying to piece together the next thing. The next ta-da. Often I went too far too fast.

 

If your daughter loves this stuff, you might think about letting her do some of the research and find, accept, discard, organize, and schedule some of the resources. Maybe she could be working with you. Or you could work next to her. If she really likes projects and how they fit within time periods.... If she really likes the details, she might really like the research.

 

I would just hate for you to spend a ton of time putting something together for her that might not work. And a gentle caution: you're getting the logic-stage education here. She's not. She's not doing the research and making the connections and seeing how the parts fit together to make a whole. You are. And you say you hate this stuff, and she loves it.

 

Wouldn't it be more productive to involve her in THIS process? The logic stage is all about making connections. Wouldn't this Deciding What to do When and How and to What Extent process be a fantastic introduction to a logic-stage education of this time period. If you organize it all, you may find that you've obtaining the logic-stage understanding and your plan actually pushes her interaction back down into the grammar stage. She's done little of the organizing. You've done it for her. Grammar stage kids accept data given to them. Logic stage kids organize information; they decide what's important and what isn't; they unearth connections; AND they learn that they can't do it all - they MUST choose.

 

Educationally junior high can be a great time to push kids to generate a plan and then work the PLAN!

 

Don't want to be a pain. :001_smile: Just offering up another perspective.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

Let me chew on this. First, the two ways we've tried this that didn't work: researching in the spur of the moment (wastes too much time, means we don't have the supplies, lots of fun but nothing gets done) and leaving her just to pursue it in her free time (she gets distracted, other things happen, blah blah). I definitely see your point. I'm just trying to think through how I DO this. You're right el-chicko here has been making some logic-stage connections, lol. But I don't think that has to totally be a knock. I mean when you understand the material better, you understand where you're GOING with it.

 

Doesn't TOG encourage some form of pow-wow planning with the dc? Is that weekly or by units? See the other thing is I liked the VP goal of working on that amount of reading. I think going into it with some plan is a good thing.

 

I'm trying to figure out, are you saying I would bring her into this process *now*? I wasn't really in a position to before, but I think I'm inching closer. I liked Lori's idea of presenting the dc with the reading list but having some choices within that. Right now I'm at the basket of books stage that I'm narrowing down to a sensible list. Then I need to take that sensible list and see what we can do with each (Omnibus discussions, a springboard for projects, etc.). So I can't bring her into the process too soon, or it will be inefficient. But you're right, maybe I don't have to do all the hands-on/application planning myself. Maybe I keep whittling on this list, then bring her into the discussion to flesh it out and turn it into our plans.

 

Well interesting. Definitely appreciate it. Just gotta figure out the best timing for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does your dd wear women's sizes yet or is she still in children's? The mainstream pattern companies have been making more and more historical patterns but the sizes (mostly) limited to women's and small girls. We had a difficult time until dd16 moved up in size.

 

And have you considered National History Day as a project focus for your dd? It sounds like her thing. www.nhd.org

 

Definitely misses' sizes. She's 5'5", hehe. I've looked at the patterns in the simplicity catalogs and whatnot, but I didn't know how accurate they were. I'm not willing to handsew (which my mother has talked about doing for reenactor costumes), but I'd like to inch a bit closer to realistic.

 

You're the 2nd person to mention National History Day! I need to learn more about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Janice, you know I think what's also wrapped up in this that I didn't even realize was an assumption that I needed to make our history plans all neat and tidy. Maybe I should rethink that. Maybe PART of it needs to be neat and tidy and part of it can be messy and buckety to allow for that connection-making...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing that was ever neat and tidy about my very eclectic history/literature courses was the reading list. Projects and papers were decided upon as we went and were often ideas that my kids came up with. They didn't want to think ahead about what to read or how to tackle what interested them, so the spring planning process didn't interest them. It was o.k. with me as I love to research and loved setting up my own courses.

 

It took several months to organize the reading list, but it wasn't an intensive project. It was like holding a pair of shoes next to a dress to see if it goes -- I'd group books together to see if they worked together. Once I had a grouping that worked, then I'd think about how much time we'd need. Turned out it was about 6 to 8 weeks per grouping. If my student was really into it and wanted to continue with a topic, we'd put more time into it. The opposite was true too, that sometimes something would take less time.

 

All this to say that you don't have to have it set in stone by the end of March! You can shelve it, pull your planning back out in June and still be ready for next fall. You may stumble across the most amazing resource in the next few months and will end up re-writing everything. You may also find you have just a sketch of ideas for the spring semester, but that's o.k. as you will have more confidence by then to fill it in as you go.

 

And as this isn't a high school course, you can relax and not worry about it being "enough" for a full credit. Have fun with it, trust that the creative juices will flow as the year goes by. Not every literary work requires a paper or project, and some ideas for a project can be much richer than they seem on the surface.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Jenn, that makes a lot of sense!! I self-imposed the end of March deadline because I HATE having my summers sucked up by history planning. I just hate it. The weather is blech a lot now (though it was gorgeous today, 70), so I'm trying to take advantage of it. The times I've let planning go into the summer, I was just miserable. But I think you're right that I was thinking of it as all or nothing. I like your balance, that I can refine the BOOK lists now but let the things we DO with the books come as we get into them. That I can handle. And as you say, dd wants no part of this process right now, lol. I tried to draw her in, and she just got this horrified look. Too many options, too hard to sort through.

 

You know what's even dumber? I sit here, looking at books, trying to know how I've hit a good one. This is terrible, but I don't think the only books worth spending time on are classics. I think for her unconventional history is good, books from women's perspectives are good. How did you decide what books to put on that shoot to work through list? What qualities were you looking for? And you used groupings? That's interesting, because some of the books I want to use are shorter and would indeed bundle nicely with related books.

 

So yes, at this point I've decided just to work on getting the piles sorted and into a list that makes sense. I may be closer than I realize. I have little lists on different pages, so it's time to start congealing and seeing if it develops into something coherent.

 

BTW, what type of thought process or discussion or interaction did you anticipate in 7th gr? Dd will be 12 next month, so she's on the young end of her grade, even though appropriate. It's always so hard to guess what they'll be like 6-9 months from now, lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the Sewing Historical clothing:

 

For Civil War, Elizabeth Stewart Clark's patterns for girls are as accurate as you can get. Although, I think they only go up to size 14. Any of the Simplicity patterns designed by Kay Gnagey will be accurate, skip the rest or anything by any of the other Big 4. The Simplicity patterns will assume she is not wearing a corset or stays and include extra ease that will need to be taken out if she does plan on wearing them. It just depends on how much time you have to put into this project and how accurate you want to be. You can pm me for more details if you are interested.

 

For Titanic era, the Sense and Sensibility patterns are generally regarded as the best.

 

For 50's, I would actually buy a vintage pattern of Etsy and use that because then you get the real silhouette instead of a costumey one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

About choosing books.... Even in high school I did a mix of classics and popular literature. I read lots of Amazon reviews, chose from the list I compiled over my years of homeschooling, and blindly picked things off the library shelf. In 7th grade I read aloud some books or we'd listen together to audio versions -- these were usually the classics. I also found easy to read young adult historical fiction works and lots of non-fiction which sometimes was just there to flip through or I assigned sections to read.

 

I'd assign short research topics, for instance, have them read up on a particular person and report on it. There were many crafts and art projects -- doing an illuminated manuscript or Chinese calligraphy, for instance.

 

Discussions were hit and miss. Some material really engaged them and we'd have some great conversations. Other times they were typical teens and far too cool to show any interest. I never tested, just figured it was all going to start becoming connected in their brains somehow. (And it did... more or less!) Some of the best discussions were unplanned, though, when we'd be in the car listening to the news, for instance.

 

My lists didn't include just books, btw. I'd have lists of documentaries and movies to watch, too, all of which would get grouped in with a set of books. We never made it through all the books and DVDs on my list. Ever.

 

I'll be interested if you find history more interesting when tackling it through culture -- costumes, cooking and such, than looking at it from a purely political and military perspective. Your dd is still a bit young for parts of this book, but I have to recommend Bill Bryson's book At Home. It is a history of every day life in England and America -- furniture, cooking, gardens, architecture. Your dd is young because, well, there is a chapter on the bedroom and you may not be ready for her to be reading non-graphic but frank descriptions of what can go on there. There is lots that you could read aloud -- I think you both would enjoy it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know what's even dumber? I sit here, looking at books, trying to know how I've hit a good one. This is terrible, but I don't think the only books worth spending time on are classics.

 

 

Don't know if this would help, but starting about late middle school and into high school, I would narrow down our Great Books list for our Literature -- but then I had a separate list with all kinds of odds and ends on it, and I treated it like a book basket: "Okay, here are the 4 (or 6, or 3) books you get to choose from for a solo read to be finished in 6 weeks." And so I would have 6 "clumps" of books that sort-of had a similar theme or were in a similar time period, for them to choose from. No discussion other than me asking occasionally, "So, how's that book? what's happened so far? what do you think of that book?" -- just to make sure it did get finished. (LOL) Then at the start of the next 6 weeks, they got to choose from a new "clump" of books.

 

My "clumps" included historical fiction, biographies, non-fiction books on a specific event, etc. A lot of the time they were books below their reading level -- a lot of titles from Sonlight or other programs; sometimes a sci-fi clump, fantasy clump, or other interesting-looking clump of books I checked out of the library; etc.

Edited by Lori D.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You ladies read my mind! See that's what's happening here! The more I sort through my book piles and look at them (and interpret them with your comments), the more I see books we want to discuss, books that are better for projects, and books that really are just book basket reading. It just hadn't occurred to me that it was ok to have a book basket once you went to the fancier stage of book study (snort). :)

 

I'm inching closer. I even read half (or maybe 1/3? I don't know, it was from middle to end) of Uncle Tom's Cabin. Aren't you proud of me? I thought it was going to be a total loser from the thickness and slow start with all that slogging dialect, mercy, and was totally confused as to why the book had been selling like hotcakes for so long. Well it actually gets pretty gripping by the end. Now I'm curious to see what Omnibus iii does with it. What surprised me most is that it's one big propaganda piece. I should have known, but I didn't. I thought it was going to be a more realistic portrayal of life, and instead it's sort of a hyped, heavy on the spin portrait.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been lurking on this thread. I have a comment and a question.

 

TOG Loose Threads Yahoo group has a TOG + SL booklist. You might find some easy planning help there. I have a 3-step process for our reading:

1. TOG says read it, so you must read it :D

2. Here's a book I thought you would like (modern authors I hear about or are featured at the library)

3. Book basket...things I know they'll like + books that compliment our history.

 

As I read through all the things your dd enjoys, I always think KONOS first, TOG second. Why not either of those?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tina, my concern with the Konos is putting all the learning into projects. I need a bit more balance and a convenient way to make sure we're working on skills. I did look at Konos some, and I didn't think it was going to be quite right. And yes, I've thought a lot about TOG. I even thunked my head a little bit about it last night. I've been trying to weigh how it approaches the readings (chunks over multiple weeks), what it gives me, what it still wouldn't give me, how this compares to what I already have, etc. It's my safety blanket and the closest thing I can find to what we need. If I chicken on out this more self-driven, WTM/Omnibus method, then that's where I'll go. Really it was a toss-up, with good sides either way. I finally decided if I was going to fight TOG or fight myself (my fears), I might as well fight myself for free. Hehehe... In reality, there's no resolving that what *I* need isn't what *she* needs. She'd do something as loose as TQ and have a great time just reading through things. *I* am the one who doesn't loosen up for that. It doesn't give me the tools *I* need to interact with her. TOG would in theory, but the more I've looked at it, the more I've concluded it might not be a pleasant fit for me. At least this way I don't hate anything I'm reading. TOG gives the teacher an encyclopedia entry to read. I found a series of online lectures, 15-20 minutes a jolt, we can do once a week that get us to the same place. The online lectures have outlines, powerpoint presentations, etc. etc., fitting our learning style better. I don't do well with history anyway (give me grammar or science or a foreign language any day, mercy!), so those lectures were a heavy selling point. TOG has discussion questions, but I have the BJU student activities pages correlated, getting me to about the same place. No, I have absolutely positively no confidence I can do this. (I need to start saying some positive affirmations to myself, haha.) But either way it's a trial. As you say, it's only 7th. If I can't making this coming year work this way, then I'll flip and go the opposite. So it was either try it myself and have TOG as the back-up or try TOG and have WTM/Omnibus as the back-up.

 

Clear as mud? And yes, it's interesting to hear the way you sort your books. As you say, I think there were subtleties to the GB/gb/history study for junior high and hs that I had somehow missed in all the threads and lists. When I actually sat down and tried to generate my own, like those I've seen, things got hairy.

 

And yes, I always try too hard. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tina, my concern with the Konos is putting all the learning into projects. I need a bit more balance and a convenient way to make sure we're working on skills. I did look at Konos some, and I didn't think it was going to be quite right. And yes, I've thought a lot about TOG. I even thunked my head a little bit about it last night. I've been trying to weigh how it approaches the readings (chunks over multiple weeks), what it gives me, what it still wouldn't give me, how this compares to what I already have, etc. It's my safety blanket and the closest thing I can find to what we need. If I chicken on out this more self-driven, WTM/Omnibus method, then that's where I'll go. Really it was a toss-up, with good sides either way. I finally decided if I was going to fight TOG or fight myself (my fears), I might as well fight myself for free. Hehehe... In reality, there's no resolving that what *I* need isn't what *she* needs. She'd do something as loose as TQ and have a great time just reading through things. *I* am the one who doesn't loosen up for that. It doesn't give me the tools *I* need to interact with her. TOG would in theory, but the more I've looked at it, the more I've concluded it might not be a pleasant fit for me. At least this way I don't hate anything I'm reading. TOG gives the teacher an encyclopedia entry to read. I found a series of online lectures, 15-20 minutes a jolt, we can do once a week that get us to the same place. The online lectures have outlines, powerpoint presentations, etc. etc., fitting our learning style better. I don't do well with history anyway (give me grammar or science or a foreign language any day, mercy!), so those lectures were a heavy selling point. TOG has discussion questions, but I have the BJU student activities pages correlated, getting me to about the same place. No, I have absolutely positively no confidence I can do this. (I need to start saying some positive affirmations to myself, haha.) But either way it's a trial. As you say, it's only 7th. If I can't making this coming year work this way, then I'll flip and go the opposite. So it was either try it myself and have TOG as the back-up or try TOG and have WTM/Omnibus as the back-up.

 

Clear as mud? And yes, it's interesting to hear the way you sort your books. As you say, I think there were subtleties to the GB/gb/history study for junior high and hs that I had somehow missed in all the threads and lists. When I actually sat down and tried to generate my own, like those I've seen, things got hairy.

 

And yes, I always try too hard. :)

I see. That does make sense.

 

NOW...ONLINE LECTURES?! YOU MUST SHARE! I'm begging and shouting here, ya' know! If that can save me my lecture, I'm down!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://college.cengage.com/history/lecturepoints/ :)

 

I also posted in another thread on the hs board with a whole bunch of goodies I recently found. I think it was in response to a question by Janie on options for her cs 8th graders.

I could kiss you....huge smooches. Guess what we'll be doing this afternoon! You just made my life a lot easier...hee hee...

 

I'll be looking for that other post, now, too. I haven't been here much lately...too much school, not enough board time!

 

As you so well said in another thread...if only we didn't have kids, we could home school so much better :lol::lol: HILARIOUS!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://college.cengage.com/history/lecturepoints/ :)

 

I also posted in another thread on the hs board with a whole bunch of goodies I recently found. I think it was in response to a question by Janie on options for her cs 8th graders.

Here's your post...and laugh if you must, but I'm singing to you now....you are so beautiful, to meeeee! Thank you for sharing. I'm always looking for ways to make my life easier and this is so very helpful. I really want my kiddos to get used to lecture notes and it was really stretching me this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you're welcome! See I didn't THINK I was so nuts that this could work. It was one of my long, frustrated whole-day researching jags where all those resources came together. And after I realized what I was looking for (basically anything to go with AP US History), I realized I could find more and more. A lot of schools and school teachers now have up web pages for their courses, so you'll find things they connect to. That was how I found those lectures. Honestly, I've never even figured out how you find them on that host website's search engine. (I tried, hoping to find more goodies!)

 

So anyways, I'm glad they can help you. Each lecture shows an outline at the start, so it's easy to correlate them to what you're currently doing. I found the professor relatively engaging, and I'm a tough critic.

 

Well cool, you're perking me up with the thought that I'm NOT so nuts to think my combo would work. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...just want to make sure you know about Hippo Campus. :001_smile: ....'cause I think you really need some more resources... :lol:

 

http://www.hippocampus.org/?tab=course

 

Really, everything you have looks great. Just an FYI; it works well because it aligns the lectures with various textbooks. BUT the ones from Cengage look great too. :001_smile:

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...just want to make sure you know about Hippo Campus. :001_smile: ....'cause I think you really need some more resources... :lol:

 

http://www.hippocampus.org/?tab=course

 

Really, everything you have looks great. Just an FYI; it works well because it aligns the lectures with various textbooks. BUT the ones from Cengage look great too. :001_smile:

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

Man, I feel very out of the loop. This is great. Thank you! Oh, this is so encouraging. I feel next year (and the rest of this one) getting easier all the time!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...just want to make sure you know about Hippo Campus. :001_smile: ....'cause I think you really need some more resources... :lol:

 

http://www.hippocampus.org/?tab=course

 

Really, everything you have looks great. Just an FYI; it works well because it aligns the lectures with various textbooks. BUT the ones from Cengage look great too. :001_smile:

 

Hmmm, I'd heard of hippocampus and never been over there. Interesting! Yes, that's very handy to have it correlated. Of course it didn't take long (maybe an hour?) to correlate the Cengage lessons to my spine. I tried listening to a couple of the Hippocampus US History lectures, and now I'm half asleep, lol. But I'm uber-picky. They sound like the History Channel, and I don't do HC. They sure are nice visually though! I like the outlines of the Cengage lessons. Hate the voices on some of the Hippo lessons. The Cengage person is actually a professor, the person initiating the flow of thought, and he talks to you like you're intelligent. The Hippo lectures are someone reading a text they've been given. It's definitely interesting to hear what each pulls out. Nice to have so many options (Cengage, Hippo, TC, etc.) to chose from to fit our students! And I think that was my biggest discovery with it, that I don't have to do all the work taking her forward, because technology has helps for me. I just need to be here to debrief and discuss. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow - very interesting thread.... So OhE... I'm trying to see if I understand what your pieces/parts are for history next year.... online lectures, GB/gb (some to discuss, some for doing projects, some to be book basket options), WTM/Omnibus for discussions/worldview/literature, cultural/woman issues/other for side interests, projects, and primary sources, BJU Student Activity guide? Is this sort of it?

 

First I just want to say that I think going all out on a subject you hate is really amazing. You are to be commended!

 

Secondly, can I selfishly ask what do you think will be your spine? or drive your year? Online lectures? BJU text? Your own sequencing? I'm considering an American History next year for my 7th grade ds, but have yet to find the right thing. I confess though, I haven't dug as deeply as you have AND I have a track record of not trusting my own plans even if I do dig deeply. If it were only a matter of finding books, I might trust my own judgement..... it's the area of producing output that mucks up all my great plans, LOL (possibly because I'm dealing with a ds instead of a dd?)

 

Anyway, I really enjoyed reading your thought process!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lynn, I'll be quick here, because it's getting late. The BJU 8 American Republic text is a very fine book, nicely written, and has a good student activities workbook to go with it. Be sane, get the text, get the workbook, and add on the books that interest you to flesh it out as you wish. If you don't want to do that and keep reading, don't say I didn't warn you. :)

 

My dd found, as I was pulling things one day, the DK Story of America book I had picked up at a sale last year from a local homeschooler who had used it with her (substantially older I might add and very bright) kids for an online class. I'm not sure how all they used it, since it was online. However along with the book I picked up some GB and primary sources type stuff (Uncle Tom's Cabin, Fred. Douglass, etc.), so it's pretty clear where they were going. So my dd saw the visual of it, read the elegant narrative, and thought it was the only thing for her. Who am I to argue? I know nothing. So naive fool that I am, I decided to forgo the saner TOG option (slap, whack) and see if I could, like some little lemming, follow in the steps of those before me and do a spine + GB/gb study of history a la WTM. I should have been exterminated like a rodent. I've spent too much time on it, and doing it myself definitely does nothing for my insecurities. However I decided, one last time, I was willing to attempt to beat the beast. Oh, and I should mention that my gold standard is BJU: if I do as much or more than BJU would have required (for my dd's age/grade), then I'm still on-track.

 

So anyways, when I sat down to look at this DK book and figure out what I could do with it, I realized she did NOT have the foundation to go into it straight and come out retaining enough. I'm just being blunt. There's a LOT to this book, and you can only build where you have enough structure to start with. Otherwise you're just taking away vague impressions. So I decided it wouldn't even have a chance of working for her (and I told her so), unless she were to have some form of introduction for each topic. And in that search, somehow, mercifully, I ended up finding those Cengage lectures. That's why they're there. This DK book is used as a supplement for some AP classes according to the amazon reviews. I don't know, but I can tell it's not pea snivel.

 

Next problem. Synthesis. We talked about the BJU 8 student activities pages so much, I was inspired to search that route. What I ended up finding first was the workbook for the BJU 11 US History. Not pea snivel either. Lots of topics in that text, LOTS of content. Occasionally the chapters seem ill organized compared to the smooth narrative of the DK book. Nevertheless it brings in plenty of christian-interest topics and has a phenomenal, phenomenal workbook. Lots of compare/contrast, connection-making activities.

 

Is any of this making sense? So if I never engage a brain cell next year, I already have the warm-up lecture, spine readings (which of course can have basic note-taking, outlining, or summarizing tasks), and worksheets to work on synthesis. So at that point all I have to do is read the DK sections for the week, see what jumps out at me, and discuss. Might not be as brilliant as TOG, but it sure would be efficient.

 

Now for the writing assignments, I went through the Peterson site at one of the links in the thread Tina linked you to, and chose writing and projects from their chapters to correlate to the DK book. It wasn't hard, took maybe 3-5 hours. (After you get enough hours in, you forget they exist.) So now I have a spreadsheet started with some of these components filled in. What I DON'T know yet is whether those writing assignments will overshadow and overwhelm whatever we do for GB/gb. Or put another way, there are only so many hours in the week!

 

So tonight I was doing some more reading and pondering about whether Omnibus iii is the right help for what I need (with it's easy pre-schedule, it would be a shoe-in), or whether I'm wanting something else (eclectic mix of PP guides, etc. to bring a different slant). I'm thinking about how much time and emphasis the books need vs. the history, whether we're trying to do lit analysis or look at themes (or both??), whether she should have writing projects with the GB/gb and whether that would force us to dump the history writing. I don't know on any of those points. I've been taking this column by column in the spreadsheet, and I'm still in the pick the books and figure out more or less what you're trying to do with them column.

 

Clear as mud? I could give you my numerical crunching spreadsheet, whether the cengage lectures and BJU worksheets and whatnot are put together with the spine. However really, I don't think most kids this age could do that DK book in a year, not completely. It's super-thick. Mine walked off, or I'd check the number. I tried to keep the number of pages per reading at 4-6, sometimes 7, with 2 readings a week. If you read more, you'd be covering so much, so fast, you wouldn't have time to delve into the topics via your reading.

 

Be sane. Do the BJU 8. Do... I don't know. On the days I get frustrated, I tell dd to be nice to me or I'll put her in just WHATEVER and tell her to deal with it. I do get tired of this. I get tired of wanting to do so much for her and not being able to. She has the ability to enjoy so much (history is her thing), but it's tiring to realize you either try to engage in that way (or give up) AND still have to make sure you're hitting the skills. But I'm just rambling. That's just our mix. We're only doing the 2nd half of the DK book (well ch. 8 to the end), so the chunkings I made might not even benefit you. That was my thought process though on how I did it. All the links are there, in that thread post. Anything I've done, you can do too, and you can make it to fit your dc's interests specifically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks OhE! I appreciate your taking the time to explain where you are and how you got there and the generous offer to share the fruits of your labor. I'm cracking up at the thought that we could homeschool so much better if we didn't have children!

 

Sane? Yes, I'm supposed to be doing sane history next year! I was going to do TOG until I decided to spend the year on American and start back in ancients a year early (8th instead of 9th). My goals are to raise the bar in science (vehicle for study skills!) and focus on writing (and logic) so we are "ready" to jump into TOG Year 1 in 8th, possibly rhetoric level. (We'd like to do the 4 years from 8th - 11th, freeing up senior year for govt. alone.) So even though history is a favorite subject here, it's supposed to take the back burner.

 

I read ds samples from BJU 8, Notgrass' Middle School (America the Beautiful) and Memoria Press's American text (a rewrite of the Guerber books). He liked Notgrass the best - not so much for the flow of words, but because the sample was info he had not heard before (my fault.... he's had so much world history, there's plenty of American that's new to him). He liked the narrative flow (story feel) of the Guerber, but there was nothing he hadn't heard before (the sample re. to Benjamin Franklin). Imho, the MP is too grammar stage-ish - in fact I may use it with my little ones next year. BJU was his third choice of the samples, dryest of the three, though he didn't hate it.

 

Notgrass Units consists of 5 lessons one each related to 1) American Story (political history) 2)American Landmarks 3)American Biography 4) Daily Life and 5) God's Wonders. I like this and I like the We the People supplement of primary sources - speeches, letters, songs, etc. But I'm intrigued by the idea of adding the online lectures and the BJU activity book. I hadn't considered that the activity book could work with a different text. Stimulating output is my nemesis. We love history here, but we don't "do" history we read it. (Probably a good thing, since I have no sewing skills at all, LOL).

 

Anyway, I have hi-jacked your thread and offered you nothing of value in return, but I will have to take some time with the BJU 8 student activity book and the BJU 11 activity manual at the Mid-West. Thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now see I hadn't explored Notgrass enough to know they had a middle school text. Sounds like a great option and very SANE! :)

 

Just to connect this with the Nan/writing thread on the other board, have you thought about figuring out what skills he needs and setting them up as a weekly routine? See sometimes we make this too hard. Sometimes it's as simple as saying my kid needs to outline and then putting that into the plan--read Notgrass 2X/week and outline. And then you say he needs to work on good narrations--written narration of book basket book, 1X/week. And you want to work on dictation--open your read aloud and dictate. Or he needs to do copywork--copy for 10 minutes from Notgrass or those primary sources.

 

I know what you mean about the quandry between writing in the fun subjects or saving the ugh for it's own time. Problem is, at some point each of these subjects starts taking so long that you no longer HAVE that luxury. And does it really solve the problem if you keep them separate? It's still going to be hard. I've found my dd rises to the challenge these days when I integrate the writing task with a fun subject, even though she resisted it mightily earlier and declared I was "ruining" history or whatever. Might be maturity or that she's just a bit more ready or something, I don't know. But think about it. Even if it didn't work in the past, now might be the time. And don't think all that writing has to be fancy (essays and whatnot). If he needs basic skills, just build them in as the routine and let the content vary. So every Mon and Wed he outlines, every Thurs he writes his book writing, every Tuesday you do dictation, that type thing. At least that's how I try to schedule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny you mention the other thread, I've been chewing on that one too and wondering how it sounds so simple and where did I make it so complicated.... which inspired me to get out my WTM and re-read parts of it during dd's ballet class. Even the rhetoric level was sounding so "simple." But I think my struggle is with *me* - *I* don't know how to take notes on books (never needed to), *I* don't know how to have a Socratic discussion, *I* don't know how to apply my worldview across different issues, etc. Which is why I've been hoping things like TOG, LToW, etc. would help me. (Btw, did you know that LToW's 3 canons are right there in the WTM? - not as fleshed out obviously, but they are there.) AND (if I remember correctly) the guidance on writing a highschool level research paper recommends reading 6-10 sources for two weeks before the student even comes up with a thesis. No wonder I can't come up with decent writing topics off the cuff, LOL!

 

Anyway, I've digressed far enough from the original topic, but I do appreciate your thoughts and will keep mulling them over!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm coming into this late but I just wanted to chime in that I read the recent edition of WTM last week. (I have the orginal edition but haven't ever read the newest ones.) This lifted alot of my burden regarding writing, history and literary analysis. It seems so simple in the book. I don't know why I continually try to make it harder than it needs to be. I agree with Lynn, I think my problem is that I don't know how to do all these things and the tasks seem so daunting. Hence, the paralysis. :001_smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It really isn't that hard, and the burden of taking notes and doing the analysis shifts to the student during high school. The WTM and WEM are both excellent sources for questions to use with literary and historical works, and these questions will train you and your students on HOW to think and anaylise for yourselves. It doesn't matter that you don't know how to do this now, but if you start with baby steps in 7th and 8th grades you and your students both will internalize the method. The questions also in the WEM make good writing prompts, too.

 

There were times that I wanted the ease of having discussion questions all laid out for me. But the few times I did I detested them for being too simplistic or too narrow. The discussions I'd have with my kids would go out on tangents never covered in a teacher's guide, and I'd have my kids write an essay to defend their opinion or viewpoint on a work or period of history.

 

Don't forget that you don't have to analyze every little thing. In middle school especially your kids SHOULD be reading mostly for the sake of reading because you don't want to kill a love of books by turning every book into tedious work. Discuss books conversationally, but pick only a few to start analyzing and keep it light and simple.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...There were times that I wanted the ease of having discussion questions all laid out for me. But the few times I did I detested them for being too simplistic or too narrow. The discussions I'd have with my kids would go out on tangents never covered in a teacher's guide, and I'd have my kids write an essay to defend their opinion or viewpoint on a work or period of history.

 

Man does that resonate right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...