Irishmommy Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Just wondering what others thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I suppose it depends on how you define grade level, since different curricula and different states define scope and sequence for each grade differently, but it seems to be at least in line with most state standards, sometimes ahead. By 6th grade, the kid should be solidly ready for pre-algebra, like most math programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Maria Miller answers this question on this page. It is question #17. As far as I can tell, MM is a grade ahead in Indiana (my state). It seems to be on grade level in California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 This is off-topic, but thinking out loud, just curious - anyone know whether the vast majority of CA public school students are doing algebra in 8th, or earlier? It would seem the standards would put them on such a path (and yet, I was under the impression that generally, state-wide, the PS are not the greatest). As for MM and grade level, I think it's important to keep in mind the author's intent not to go an inch deep/a mile wide. I'm guessing that's why, for example, the chapters on fractions and decimals in MM 4B, while necessary and meaty, are nonetheless brief, saving the really deep focus for those topics for grade 5. When considering curricula and grade levels, it seems to make sense to worry more about what topics will have been learned thoroughly by the end of, say, grade 6, and whether such topics individually are covered at an age-appropriate time, for the sake of efficiency as well as mastery. (maybe I had too much coffee this morning? :tongue_smilie:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 This is off-topic, but thinking out loud, just curious - anyone know whether the vast majority of CA public school students are doing algebra in 8th, or earlier? It would seem the standards would put them on such a path (and yet, I was under the impression that generally, state-wide, the PS are not the greatest). I'm basically a product of the California school system. My last two years were not there, but the rest of my schooling was. The district where I grew up actually had a FABULOUS gifted program. They did gifted testing toward the end of second grade. If you didn't test in at that time, you could request to test in later. Anyway, by 7th grade the advanced math class was pre-algebra and 8th grade was algebra. So, yes, they were offering algebra 1 by 8th grade. I finished my senior year off with Calc II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorbackmama Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 In the early grades I'd say it's on grade level. Toward the end though it shifts to above grade level. A child could easily go from 6th grade MM to pre-algebra, just like a PP said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khall Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but we have been using MM this year with ds10, and it has been working for him, but he doesn't absolutely love it so we are toying with the idea of switching for next year. So last week I had him do some placement tests, and with three more chapters to go in MM 4B, he easily tested into CLE 500, and he tested into Saxon 8/7. I don't know if we'll switch or not, but it's interesting to compare the scores. On chapter tests for MM he usually scores in the low 80s, and I know he won't pass the end of year test for MM 4 if he took it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I'm basically a product of the California school system. My last two years were not there, but the rest of my schooling was. The district where I grew up actually had a FABULOUS gifted program. They did gifted testing toward the end of second grade. If you didn't test in at that time, you could request to test in later. Anyway, by 7th grade the advanced math class was pre-algebra and 8th grade was algebra. So, yes, they were offering algebra 1 by 8th grade. I finished my senior year off with Calc II. That sounds typical for honors math from when I was growing up back east, but what I'm wondering is whether virtually all CA students, not just advanced students, do algebra in 8th, which would seem to be possible if the CA standards were being met. That is, if all students mastered the standards listed by the end of 6th grade, it would seem they'd be prepared for pre-algebra in 7th and algebra in 8th. Or maybe I'm missing something, which is also quite possible...:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Maria Miller answers this question on this page. It is question #17. As far as I can tell, MM is a grade ahead in Indiana (my state). It seems to be on grade level in California. I am in Indiana and I would say it is roughly one semester ahead. Goodness, when I was in school it was only the (elite excelled high IQ however you want to say it) that took Pre-Algebra in 7th grade. I was one of them and we had to walk to a different school for Geometry class when we got there a year earlier than everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 MN has standards basically identical to CA. The new requirements are for Algebra I to be taken in 8th grade. Interesting, considering current math standards are not being met yet they decide to make them even more rigorous.:confused: MM is on grade level by MN standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschooling Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 After using about 1/3 of MM3, my DD9 went into public school this semester and placed perfectly into the middle of 4th grade and has an A in math. MM may not cover the same topics in the same order as public schools, but the thinking mathematically that is taught, the mental math, and the number sense provides such a solid base that she is able to use her current knowledge to easily figure out her math at school. Most of the topics are new to her and she's done better than most of her class. The teacher was super impressed when I had our parent teacher conference :) Pretty much the same thing for my DS7 in 1st grade. Except we'd gotten even less of MM1 done for him and he is excelling! They'll both be home this fall and moving on with their respective levels of MM. It's a fantastic program, and I know it's ahead of the schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateLeft Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I have no experience with the lower levels of MM, but my 7th grader is using the gold 7A and 7B pre-algebra worksheets as a supplement to Kinetic Books Pre-Algebra, and we've found that they line up fairly closely. MM's pre-algebra matches pretty well with KB's pre-algebra. There are a lot of things that aren't covered, which is why it's not marketed as a complete pre-algebra program, but I think the author's idea of pre-algebra fits with KB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendag Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I'm in CA and went through PS here back in the day. :). I was in an advanced math class in 6th grade (1982) but was getting lots of one on one instruction as there were 4 of us with our teacher while the student teacher taught the regular math. We were just over in a corner of the room. I got placed in pre-algebra in 7th grade. I got sick for a week and could never get caught up even with some after school tutoring. I was always 2 weeks behind in "getting it". That started my math anxiety issues. Honestly, I think the whole transition from elementary school to junior high was just a bit much in general. I felt disconnected after feeling like part of a family at my small elementary school. I was also getting burned out on a lot of extra homework, but apparently things have gotten a lot worse here in that dept as well. Anyone else remember having notes for parents being pinned to your shirt before you left in Kindergarten? I can't imagine having homework at that age. Currently, very few of my friends are happy about their kids ps and that covers many different areas throughout CA. All of the kids are younger though so who knows about the higher grades. I don't know what the standards are now. I'm going to be Homeschooling my kids from the get go so I advent checked into it. The idea that I can take more time if my kids need it rings so true to me. One of my friends had her sons' 1st grade teacher tell her that even though he was testing gifted, she wanted to hold him back a year because he wasn't following her directions enough. I think young boys have it especially rough now with the whole maturity thing. I'm curious how much the standards have changed here as well, especially in math and LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I'm in CA and went through PS here back in the day. :). I was in an advanced math class in 6th grade (1982) but was getting lots of one on one instruction as there were 4 of us with our teacher while the student teacher taught the regular math. We were just over in a corner of the room. I got placed in pre-algebra in 7th grade. I got sick for a week and could never get caught up even with some after school tutoring. I was always 2 weeks behind in "getting it". That started my math anxiety issues. Honestly, I think the whole transition from elementary school to junior high was just a bit much in general. I felt disconnected after feeling like part of a family at my small elementary school. I was also getting burned out on a lot of extra homework, but apparently things have gotten a lot worse here in that dept as well. Anyone else remember having notes for parents being pinned to your shirt before you left in Kindergarten? I can't imagine having homework at that age. Currently, very few of my friends are happy about their kids ps and that covers many different areas throughout CA. All of the kids are younger though so who knows about the higher grades. I don't know what the standards are now. I'm going to be Homeschooling my kids from the get go so I advent checked into it. The idea that I can take more time if my kids need it rings so true to me. One of my friends had her sons' 1st grade teacher tell her that even though he was testing gifted, she wanted to hold him back a year because he wasn't following her directions enough. I think young boys have it especially rough now with the whole maturity thing. I'm curious how much the standards have changed here as well, especially in math and LA. Great post. Welcome to the forums! :seeya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 We're using MM3 now and DD can add/subtract 3-digit regrouping problems in her head. I have to say that it's mostly attributable to MM since it teaches this aspect well. I don't remember ever having been taught mental math strategies in my Catholic school in first or second grade. So to answer your question, it's at grade level but whether it's above, I wouldn't know since other first graders in PS, when I get the chance to meet them in the playgrounds, are also adding and subtracting within 10, maybe even 20, but are they learning mental strategies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I am in Indiana and I would say it is roughly one semester ahead. Goodness, when I was in school it was only the (elite excelled high IQ however you want to say it) that took Pre-Algebra in 7th grade. I was one of them and we had to walk to a different school for Geometry class when we got there a year earlier than everyone else. In my school, Algebra offered in 8th and 9th. I took it in 7th, which was unusual at that time. My MIL still teaches in that district and 8th is the most common path, but there are a lot more 7th graders taking it nowadays. I think a lot of those parents do Kumon or other tutoring, though. It's a bit of a snobby district ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I live in California but from what I can remember, our math scores seem to be the lowest in the nation. Yet, our standards are so high that I'm even thinking of switching from Singapore U.S. edition books and switching to Singapore Standard edition (we supplement MM with Singapore). There are pockets of great schools, but I also know that many kids go to Kumon or other tutoring places. In any case, there are apparently not enough Kumon-tutored kids to bring up the math scores of California. So I am at a lost as to why the standards are so rigorous but our scores are usually at the bottom. Liping Ma compared U.S. and Chinese teachers and found that our teachers on average lack fundamental understanding of elementary math. This is all to point out that MM makes it easy for me to teach and understand math. I really think a student of MM (or Singapore) can gain a fundamental understanding of math. Whether it's below or above CA state standards isn't the real issue since kids who have a conceptual understanding of arithmetic operations should be able to tackle grade-level math problems that may not have been taught in MM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I think it is mixed. My DS is in MM 3rd. I believe he is ahead of his friends in PS as far as addition and subtraction skills. He has learned a ton this year! His friends in school are doing more complex multiplication and division this year and have not really done much addition or subtraction at all since leaving 2nd grade (my son's last year there). My DS was covering the times charts a little earlier than the PS kids this year- he had done the tables all the way to 12s while his friends were doing the 2s, and 3s still. Yet, about 6 weeks later, those kids are multiplying 3 digit numbers and MM hasn't introduced that yet. I think if he went back to school next year, that he would be behind initially but would catch up quickly and he would be better at it as well because he's learned to do so much mental math. Also, I was surprised that by the time MM introduced multiplication and division, my DS did not require much instruction at all because he had been primed for it with all of the addition and subtraction tricks which made multiplication and division intuitive for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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