Jump to content

Menu

Would you/do you place limits on your student's choice of major?


Brilliant
 Share

Recommended Posts

My dd just found out that the college she'll be attending in the fall is starting a theater major. And she is interested in it. :001_huh:

 

She has a merit scholarship that covers 1/3 of tuition. But we are still on the hook for more than $100k over 4 years for tuition, books, room & board. I am not, not, not willing to pay that amount of money for a degree in theater. No way, no how, never, full stop, period. (can I say this more emphatically? I thought about using all caps but that's so obnoxious).

 

What say you? Since we are paying for this (I can't imagine dd would earn more than about $20k toward it over the 4-year period) is it reasonable for us to say, "You cannot major in that"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm paying full tuition (public U) for my dd to be a theater major :001_huh: I don't see how it is any different from any other liberal arts major, and it's what she loves.

 

For most people who love theater, it's a hobby. I haven't minded funding her dance & theater hobbies over the years, but the thought of spending $100k to fund it seems insane.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Usually you don't have to declare a major for the first couple of years, right? I would ask her to get down her GE credits (not a waste at all), to try out for some of the theater productions and see how she feels then. I was heavily into theater in high school. My university theater scene was so different - and cut-throat and I was soon diverted from that major. (That may not be the case for a school where the major is new, however).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DH and I have talked about this, although our kids are not to college yet, and the oldest seems set on a math or science major.

 

I majored in English, and it wasn't until my last semester that I discovered my career. (Before then, I was leaning toward graduate school, possibly for a library science degree.) But my career has turned out quite well for me. My parents didn't pay any tuition, but they did cover about 50% of my living expenses. I am grateful they didn't require me to major in something "practical," because nobody I knew thought English was practical.

 

On the other hand, I find the education cost bubble ridiculous, and I don't think I would pay $100k for a liberal arts degree unless the student had a good idea of how he or she was going to use that degree to provide food and shelter after graduation. It just seems excessive.

 

On the third hand ;), I love the idea of a liberal arts education and if I had the $100K without needing to take out loans . . . maybe?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you ask her to double major, with the second major being something more employable (assuming that's your objection)? I know theater is probably a major that is hard to combine with another major, but it could be done.

 

But don't follow this guy I saw in a production this summer. His bio said he had a double major in theater and philosophy. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. Wouldn't happen.

 

I would encourage a 2nd major in something that can actually lead to a career.

 

My oldest started off wanting to major in Fine Arts. That just wasn't going to happen. Fortunately, she figured out that she preferred art on the computer and changed her mind to graphic design. That's what she's actually going to work on in college (actually called Arts and Technology). There are a lot of jobs in that field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My son has heard that philosophy majors have the highest income of any under grad majors -- because so many phil majors go on to law school and B school!

 

I would encourage my child to double major -- in theater and then in something more "practical."

 

A lot of kids have extra classes they need to fill, so double majoring may mean nothing more than making a concerted effort to fill empty class slots with classes that contribute to a second major!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My dd just found out that the college she'll be attending in the fall is starting a theater major. And she is interested in it. :001_huh:

 

She has a merit scholarship that covers 1/3 of tuition. But we are still on the hook for more than $100k over 4 years for tuition, books, room & board. I am not, not, not willing to pay that amount of money for a degree in theater. No way, no how, never, full stop, period. (can I say this more emphatically? I thought about using all caps but that's so obnoxious).

 

What say you? Since we are paying for this (I can't imagine dd would earn more than about $20k toward it over the 4-year period) is it reasonable for us to say, "You cannot major in that"?

 

You are in no way required to spend that kind of money on your child's college even if you approve of the major, but I have a question.

 

Did she have a major she was interested in before that, or was she going to be undeclared?

 

If she had no interest tied to this particular college, you might suggest that she find a state school with a theatre major so your investment will be less.

 

Tough situation you're in. My sympathies.

 

Debbie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's a little early to worry. She could change her mind about her major three or four times between now and when she needs to declare her major, which typically isn't until the junior year. College is a time to explore all kinds of options. If you freak out now, there's a high probability that she could dig in her heels.

 

No, I would not place restrictions, but I might strongly urge a double major in that case. And, as Jane would say, we'd have a few "come to Jesus" talks. However, that said, I disagree that a theater major is not marketable. There are many, many paying jobs in theater, especially backstage, tech, electrician, dramaturg, set design, etc. Freak out after you explore jobs in the field, together with your daughter, and only if she starts the program and is hooked like a junkie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you asked her long term plan...if its i wanna be the next Angelina ;)well then no way but if she has a plan such as , im going to major in lighting and design and apply for these types of jobs... in these fields... well then think about it.

 

I have a friend that has made a good living off creating the lighting for the local ballet and company.

 

Encouraging her to double major wouldnt be bad idea, my only though is that totally disallowing it could cause problems at school.

 

I had a good plan for college and had the jobs and fields in mind but my parents totally refused to allow my major. They wanted me in the same career as the rest of the family. I spent spent one qtr in college hating the classes they chose for me and dropped out with a 1.0.

 

Later as a married woman i went back to school (on probation) in my chosen major and got 4.0's

 

so by all means it your money but she is her own person and may surprise you.

 

my 2 cents;)

 

There is something to be said for following one's passion, is there not? Good for you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heh. Just got an email about the commencement speaker at Knox College this year, eco-entrepreneur Majora Carter.

 

She received a bachelor's degree in 1988 from Wesleyan University in Middletown, Connecticut, where she majored in cinema studies, and completed a master of fine arts degree from New York University in 1997.

 

http://www.knox.edu/news-and-events/news-archive/eco-entrepreneur-to-speak-at-2011-knox-college-commencement.html

 

Cinema studies. :D You just never know where those artsy-fartsy majors will lead you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you checked with the college to see if there's more money if she majors in theater? Many, many times colleges have to scramble to get students for new majors because they are not at all "known" for that field meaning many people don't want to go there for that. (Most students want a well known field/profs for their degrees.) To attract students, they'll often offer extra scholarships for a student in that major. Money talks.

 

I'd be looking/asking and I'd mention my hesitation to have her major in a field that often doesn't produce the higher paid jobs to cover the expense. Be nice, but frank.

 

And if not, then I'd require a double major in business or something that can be combined with theater and could very easily be useful later on in combo with it. I would not forbid what she loved, but I would forbid it for that much money with no other "back up."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The OP's post leads to two questions for me. The first is a return to that recurring issue of whether post-secondary education is about just that, education, or if it is about job training. (The answer to me is the first with assistance in helping students find their place in the world which includes finding jobs or opening doors to graduate or professional programs.)

 

Secondly, I wonder what is an "acceptable" major to the OP? Funny, I see business majors as a dime a dozen in the market place. Yet I know one family locally which will not allow their daughter to study literature (a "hobby" degree) but says that business is acceptable. Granted, an English major needs a plan to find employment after receiving a degree, but so does every major. Not every business degree leads to an open door in the marketplace.

 

Quite honestly, many people "act" in their professions. I often felt that lecturing in math was a performance. The technical side of theater could lead to the sciences or other arts. And, as others have stated, most students change their intended majors...at least once.

 

Perhaps this is a good time to sit down with the chair of the theater department to learn what happens to their graduates. How many double major? Have there been some independent studies which have influenced how these students utilize their degrees? How much of the program is focused on technical aspects--and do students get hands on experience with the technical side? I would not write this off immediately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I were paying for it, no. Although is film studies, same as theater? That is what youngest dd wants. Screenwriting, I kind of think of this as not acting, soooo maybe not such a tough business. I am rationalizing.

 

I am hoping she will change her mind. Oldest dd has already changed her major after six months in her freshman year.

 

But theater seems like it would be fun. So, thats a toughie. I wouldnt fund as a major, but a minor, I would consider.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When my ds thought he was a history major I was far more hesitant about his taking on loans than I am now that he is in the sciences.

 

My dd was, for a time, thinking of going into culinary arts. :glare: We already have a niece (husband's sister's kid) finishing culinary school (Kendall, Chicago) to be a pastry chef and my sister's son, who went to CIA Pasadena (?) and is in his second job as a chef at a ritzy country club. He is barely making enough to pay back his student loans/car expenses and , at age 24, still lives at home. I have heard of more kids going to cooking school after watching too many Food Network shows than will ever get jobs in the field.

 

I have encouraged dd to think of cooking as a great HOBBY... just as I talked to ds about studying history as a HOBBY.

 

Theater sounds like a fun HOBBY, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would strongly encourage at least a minor in a more practical area. Check & see how many classes she'd need for a teaching certificate.

 

From my experience (voice major--5 yrs supporting myself in theater), a business minor/major would help tons! As with any business (an actor is self employed you know) the details of business can kill you! Also, I had a friend who majored in theater & was in great demand for sales jobs. Actors are not afraid of speaking to large groups!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MY daughter is a theater major -- as well as a physics major. Putting the 2 together makes for a complete lack of time. That's something to consider. We probably won't run into this problem because my daughter had a lot of carefully chosen credits before starting college, but double majors often mean 5 years, not 4.

 

And I'm not sure that the physics major is going to make her more employable. Right now, the kids coming out of the physics major are all dashing off to grad school because they can't get jobs. My daughter may find that the theater major was a good back up when she can't get a job with her physics degree. (Although a summer job in physics fell into her lap, while nothing is materializing in the theater world....)

 

My SIL majored in chemistry because her father insisted. It is true that this resulted in her marrying a chemist and therefore she had plenty of money, but she only worked in chemistry for a year. She now teaches piano, which she loves.

 

The bottom line is that you can't predict the future.

 

If your student is good in math and science, a minor in that area that gets in the basic chem, physics and math courses might be the best option. Then, if the theater major doesn't result in employment, they can go to grad school in a math/science field without too much remedial work. At least the grades and the credits will be there to prove to the grad school that this student can do the work (and that they can TA in basic math/science courses).

 

And I know folks who majored in science and then went to grad school in theater. I don't think it's all that hard to do, if you're reasonably bright and can prove that to the grad program.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's reasonable for you to lay out the facts: you're on the line for more than 100k just for four years [what about grad degree(s)?]

 

As a theatre major, odds are, she will earn an AVERAGE of xyz (check out statistics online so you have proof).

 

Does she have other areas of interest that would allow her to modify her theatre interests toward something that will pay her better? Could she explore some?

 

Could she minor in theatre, also get teaching certification, or other certifications (i.e., at least some who work in technical theatre are also electricians or other tradesmen - work that pays well) so that she can support herself in other ways if a romantic, traditional sort of theatre position won't support her?

 

Can she wait to declare a major and explore some classes in areas she might be interested in during her first two years there?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the thoughts. Who knew there were so many moms of theater majors here? :tongue_smilie:

 

We (dh and I) don't think a marketable skill should be the ONLY outcome of a college degree. To that end, we're willing to pay the big bucks for dd to attend the seminar-style honors program based on Western civilization at this Christian university. BUT we also feel that once she graduates with this fabulous education - she'll need a job to support herself. And we have personally met too many theater majors who doing things like running insurance agencies or waiting tables for a living. (Jane mentions business majors being too commonplace now, but I've never chatted with a waiter who informed me that he holds an accounting degree)

 

We don't want to force dd to major in something she'd hate (nursing! accounting!). But we want to strongly encourage her to look at majors that would give her a marketable skill while still allowing her to do what she loves. For example, in addition to the singing-acting-dancing that she loves, she spends a ton of her free time on photography, drawing, and blogging. And she's GOOD at those things; why not look into something like graphic design (as a pp mentioned)?

 

A double major wouldn't be practical - it would add at least a semester or two, because of the heavy courseload required by the honors program. I don't know if the new department would allow for a minor (there's such limited info available on this b/c it's new).

 

Lots of thinking/investigation/praying about this to be done in our family over the next few months (and years).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a student is from an independently wealthy or well-off family, why not major in theatre? They will always be able to pick the child up and carry him/her for a while until something materializes. But for the rest of us (I have a kid talking about a theatre major, too), it's hard to hear. And if I were having to look at paying 100k for it, I'd just say no. People who have money have choices and a safety net. It's not quite like that for everybody else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you ask her to double major, with the second major being something more employable (assuming that's your objection)? I know theater is probably a major that is hard to combine with another major, but it could be done.

 

I agree with this. I would not fork out $100k for almost any major except those that are unavoidable, like medical school. I would ask my child to get a job and help cover some of it or double major as a backup. Of course, I would just be thrilled if she picked a major at all. My brothers and I are all notorious major jumpers. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a student is from an independently wealthy or well-off family, why not major in theatre? They will always be able to pick the child up and carry him/her for a while until something materializes. But for the rest of us (I have a kid talking about a theatre major, too), it's hard to hear. And if I were having to look at paying 100k for it, I'd just say no. People who have money have choices and a safety net. It's not quite like that for everybody else.

 

Yep. Pretty much my thoughts too.

 

I do believe education is a goal worthy unto itself.

I also think being able to support oneself is a necessity.

 

My oldest LOVES all things acting, singing, dancing. It is insane expensive just for high school classes. And you have to be really careful not to get mediocre programs. We have reached a point where if he wants to continue in these areas, he will have to contribute his own cash to the cause bc academics are priority and that is expensive enough as it is.

 

Anyone want to higher a motivated, enthusiastic 16 year old young man for some part time labor?

 

In this market, he is getting a real eye opener on how hard it is to get a job. No one wants to higher a teen. Much less one who is mostly interested in ballroom dance, music, and stage. He is already coming to the conclusion that if he wants to eat as an adult, he better have a backup plan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would talk it over with the child but wouldn't veto it.

 

Laura

 

Yes, this.

 

My BIL really wanted to major in history but his (practical, practical) parents wouldn't hear of it. They wanted engineering, but after prolonged battles settled for economics. He went into business right after graduation but quit in unhappiness a few years ago and is now an aspiring actor.

 

It s making his parents CRAZY -- all that money they spent! for an ivy league education no less! what is he doing with his life?! -- but they can't do a d-- thing about it any more, and he manages to pay his own bills. They should have let him major in history, if you ask me. Maybe he would have figured out what he actually wanted to do instead of all this drifting.

 

It certainly seems worth discussing the practicalities of graduating with a theater degree, but as another poster said, it's not like there's any degree that guarantees you a secure future.

Edited by JennyD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you ask her to double major, with the second major being something more employable (assuming that's your objection)? I know theater is probably a major that is hard to combine with another major, but it could be done.

 

I'm with you on this. Our dd was just accepted by a highly-selective LAC and she wants to pursue anthropology (she thinks) at grad school. Oh, and archeology is one of her interests, as is boating and marine science. And did I mention aerobics and Latin American studies? But her first love is dance.

 

Thank goodness she has realized that dance is one of those things she can do, as a career, without a degree. Dance lessons, like performing in community theatre, can be done outside of college, or as an elective class, or in the summer (summer stock) . But classes like biology and political science...well, college is it, and core studies is where those classes are found.

 

So our dd has fine-tuned her goals, going for a double major with the understanding that it may take her the full 4 years to complete her degree--thank goodness she has earned a year of college credits under her belt while still in high school. Bottom line: one of our daughter's majors will be anthro, while the other will be more "practical", probably Spanish or Biology.

 

BTW, our next door neighbor is the head partner in a law firm. She went to school and majored in--you guessed it--theatre. I guess all that training in the performing arts has helped her with her courtroom appearances!

Edited by distancia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't. I am just not a fan of the theater major. I am not one who thinks all the children should have practical majors but in my view, they should have academic majors or secondarily, practical majors. In my view, theater doesn't count as either. It is fine for a hobby and if you are good, you can make it anyway. I don't see a need to get a degree in it. Technical production degrees fall under the practical major but I am not sure you need a BA but think those are AA majors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Technical production degrees fall under the practical major but I am not sure you need a BA but think those are AA majors.

 

You reminded me that the cc which she is currently attending offers AA degrees in costuming (in which she has shown an interest) and other more "technical" theater degrees. I would not want her to give up this great opportunity for the honors program at the private college, but I guess she could do more at the CC and then transfer in...

 

Ugh. Too many decisions involving too much money!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't pay 100 grand for any major. If my kid wanted to go to a school that expensive, they'd have to get loans or something.

 

About a theater major. I think there are a few people who are just born to perform. You can tell it from early childhood and they are good at it. Usually great at it. By the time they are ready for college, mom and dad would have known for a long time that theater is what this kid was going to do. For a kid like that, I may be persuaded to contribute to a theater major. But for that, NO! :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since Dh and I are NOT paying for our kids college educations... we won't stop them going with their dream major. But as we will give some financial support (room and board, food, spending money, books/supplies, etc) then we insist that they also major in something that will get them a career.

 

Dd wants to major in music performance. That is a very tough career to get into (to earn enough money to live on). She also has to major in something else that will help in supporting herself financially. She enjoys giving music and Kung Fu lessons and is also considering opening a Kung Fu school, so with these in mind, she is considering a teaching or business degree with her music degree.

 

So the plan is that she will graduate high school at the end of 11th grade. Attend CC (living at home) for two years and then transfer to a university. But the university may get put on hold as it depends on her music career (she is in a band now) and if she gets the chance to go train in China for Kung Fu. But we are insisting on her getting her two year degree first.

 

If she can support her self with her music and Kung Fu... then good for her. She has goals, plans (for things to work out as she wants as well as just in case things don't work out), and has a good head on her shoulders. She knows what she wants and don't want. I figure she is ahead of the race as most teens have no clue to what they want to do. She knows what she wants to do.

Edited by AnitaMcC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For someone who wants to go into theater, a theater major can be the thing that gets them in the door -- because of all the contacts they make in college. I wouldn't discount this. However, it may be possible to be really involved in theater at a school but not do the major -- and still get the contacts.

 

If a student just thinks theater is fun and they don't intend to pursue it as a career, the contacts may not be so important.

 

Of the theater majors I know, one makes a lot of money working in a bank, another is in child care (and loves it, which is why she won't do anything more lucrative), a third does web design, and a fourth went to pharmacy school. She's a pharmacist and does paid theater work on the side. (I'm guessing she majored in biology as well at one point...) They all do theater as a hobby as well. I don't think any of them regret their decision to major in theater and they are all gainfully employed. I also know two kids who majored in theater and are actually working in theater.

 

I also know a number of theater majors who are teaching theater.

 

They're all employed. Now I do know a number of unemployed architects, physicists, and math majors. You can take from that what you will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Of the theater majors I know, one makes a lot of money working in a bank, another is in child care (and loves it, which is why she won't do anything more lucrative), a third does web design, and a fourth went to pharmacy school. She's a pharmacist and does paid theater work on the side. (I'm guessing she majored in biology as well at one point...) They all do theater as a hobby as well. I don't think any of them regret their decision to major in theater and they are all gainfully employed. I also know two kids who majored in theater and are actually working in theater.

 

 

 

I think it's important for people who major in a field they love, but doesn't have as many jobs associated with it, to realize they may not end up working in the field. Having the degree itself will still help them qualify for jobs that need "a" degree, but not a specific one.

 

This can also be true for people who majored in other fields who can't find a job in their field regardless of the reason why.

 

Many, many people graduate with degrees, and as with most things in life, getting jobs is competitive and depends on many factors. Some fields are simply more competitive than others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I don't think so. (Of course, it is your money & your child... and your choice!)

 

In my mind, an undergraduate degree at a liberal arts college is about getting a broad based education, not about career training. ...and a good school, with a strong program will provide that, regardless of major. We expect to have some input in the list of schools to which which our kids apply, but I think it would be unreasonable of us to put any limits on their major.

 

What I *would* do, is be involved in discussing these choices with my kid - helping him/her explore *why* this area of study, what s/he would like to with those interests, etc... and, further along, I'd be available to think through possible career paths.

 

But I believe that we are given our gifts and passions for a reason, and that to find our best path in life, we need to follow those dreams. ...it can be surprising where they lead!

 

But then I'm weird. I don't think financial security should be such a trump card. I don't think one should plan one's future around job security or earnings potential... I think vocation is the highest trump, and figuring out how to make ends meet while following one's passion will give more life satisfaction than doing things the other way around.

 

 

:iagree: (obviously, I think you're making plenty of sense ;))

 

I don't really know many people who are working in the same field they majored in, really. My husband is, but he's a math teacher with a math degree. He started out doing web programming and learning most everything on the job. And a lot of the people I know who do try to train for a specific career in college wind up hating said career when they graduate and actually give it a try (and then either switch to something unrelated or spend their lives doing a job they hate). I think college is, at least for most people,. a lot more about finding what you want to do with your life than training for it.

 

This reminds me...I was an English major in college, but at one point I briefly flirted with the idea of switching to journalism (before a stint at the college paper reminded me that I hate talking to strangers and this is something of a liability for a journalist). I remember my Dad, who never had any problem whatsoever with my English major, telling me, re: the switch to journalism, "I don't want you chasing after some crazy pipe dream." I guess in his head, English major=future English teacher, so it was very practical :lol:.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think vocation is the highest trump, and figuring out how to make ends meet while following one's passion will give more life satisfaction than doing things the other way around.

 

But then I grew up without financial security (and with a mother with a significant amount of educational debt), and my life was richer for it. My mother's degrees (graduate and undergraduate) would rate as wildly impractical... but they enriched her lives, and ours, and those of every child she has taught or tutored. Her retirement is insecure, but she makes ends meet... and with joy.

 

For any major, any vocation, there are income generating paths... kids who have the skills and determination will find those paths, with the right support. I don't believe it is right to limit kids to *our* visions of what is possible.

 

Did I ever enjoy reading your whole post - thank you!! Breath of fresh air.

 

Will you share how you came to this mindset?

 

And will you share more about your mother - what she studied, how she enriched your lives and the lives of those around her?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I don't think so. (Of course, it is your money & your child... and your choice!)

 

In my mind, an undergraduate degree at a liberal arts college is about getting a broad based education, not about career training. ...and a good school, with a strong program will provide that, regardless of major. We expect to have some input in the list of schools to which which our kids apply, but I think it would be unreasonable of us to put any limits on their major.

 

What I *would* do, is be involved in discussing these choices with my kid - helping him/her explore *why* this area of study, what s/he would like to with those interests, etc... and, further along, I'd be available to think through possible career paths.

 

But I believe that we are given our gifts and passions for a reason, and that to find our best path in life, we need to follow those dreams. ...it can be surprising where they lead!

 

But then I'm weird. I don't think financial security should be such a trump card. I don't think one should plan one's future around job security or earnings potential... I think vocation is the highest trump, and figuring out how to make ends meet while following one's passion will give more life satisfaction than doing things the other way around.

 

But then I grew up without financial security (and with a mother with a significant amount of educational debt), and my life was richer for it. My mother's degrees (graduate and undergraduate) would rate as wildly impractical... but they enriched her lives, and ours, and those of every child she has taught or tutored. Her retirement is insecure, but she makes ends meet... and with joy.

 

My sister majored in theater as an undergraduate and went to the Royal Scottish Academy as a theater major... she took on a ridiculous amount of debt. ...and, no, she could not have achieved the same skill level, experience, or set of contacts without that education. One of her classmates made it big (significant roles in Oscar winners level big), but she hasn't. ...but she is doing work she loves, filling in with other things to pay the bills, and has a satisfying, happy life.

 

My kids are less quixotic than my mother or sister... they are more like me, so far at least, and their dreams all have a strongly pragmatic streak - they wonder, even at a very young age, how they will live their dreams and put food on the table. ...but the dream comes first.

 

 

For any major, any vocation, there are income generating paths... kids who have the skills and determination will find those paths, with the right support. I don't believe it is right to limit kids to *our* visions of what is possible.

 

Disclaimer: I am still sick and feverish, so this might all be incomprehensible gibberish! If so, I am sorry & will try to come back and clean it up when we recover - if I get a chance!

 

Did I ever enjoy reading your whole post - thank you!! Breath of fresh air.

 

Will you share how you came to this mindset?

 

And will you share more about your mother - what she studied, how she enriched your lives and the lives of those around her?

 

:iagree:That is exactly what I was going to say, and please do tell us more about your Mom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My parents are not placing any limits on my major, they want what is best for me and they want me to make my own decisions. Although you are paying for your dd's tuition, I would ask her to double major in something else that may seem better for the job world. But why not let her do what she loves?? I am double majoring in music so that I have back up in case I may need it. And although you are left with the ultimate decision, why don't you sit down and talk with her about it, this is what I did with my parents and they agreed to let me follow my dreams.:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nowadays I would - and unbashedly - place limits to what I am willing to financially support. Very few limits, but they're definitely there.

 

Had you asked me that question some decade and half ago, I probably would have looked at you with an expression of utmost horror that such a thought could even occur to you, screaming "Of course not!", BUT... But meanwhile, I have learned a thing or two about the academic "standards" today in much of the world. And honestly, after having seen all sorts of pseudo-degrees in "fields" such as, for example, Parapsychology, or in Surfing Studies (Plymouth), or in Queer Studies, or - what was that greatest scam of all? - right, David Beckham Studies / Football Culture (I didn't believe it was real. I really didn't. I though the world couldn't possibly go that bad. And after I saw it confirmed, I still refused to believe.)... after all of THAT...

And even assuming, rightly I hope, that my children would be ambitious enough to stay away from wishing the most extreme "degrees" of the kind, after having seen what a typical college experience looks like in many liberal arts colleges... with majors not defined by junior year, with college being a period of "experimenting" rather than expert formation, with Italian majors getting out of there illiterate and with such subpar knowledge that's scary... After all that, my idealism really went out of the window. No, the university culture is really not the same everywhere. Yes, it does matter what one studies and where one studies that.

 

Now, I am just openly NOT willing to pay for "anything that interests my child". I am open only to serious, expert formation degrees, in any established, scientific field (whether it be natural sciences or literature or music or theatre or you name it, but NOT the newest "academic fashion" of Queer Studies, or invented degree of David Beckham studies, or some American liberal arts colleges with "experimenting" policy, which look like a continuation of high school - breadth, diversity, etc. - rather than expert formation places). That's my only limit. And if that's the one limit they disagree with, they will have to fund their educations on their own.

 

Any field taken seriously and pursued at a serious professional institution is fine with us - except for the abovementioned pseudo-fields. Theatre is not a problem at all in our eyes, though we would greatly encourage our children to pursue any arts and humanities educations in Europe rather than in the US (and exactly the opposite when it comes to sciences).

Edited by Ester Maria
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't. I am just not a fan of the theater major. I am not one who thinks all the children should have practical majors but in my view, they should have academic majors or secondarily, practical majors. In my view, theater doesn't count as either. It is fine for a hobby and if you are good, you can make it anyway. I don't see a need to get a degree in it. Technical production degrees fall under the practical major but I am not sure you need a BA but think those are AA majors.

 

I'm curious as to why you believe that theatre is not an academic major? Or, in fact, a practical one?

 

I'd be interested to know whether you actually know anyone who is pursuing such a degree? And whether you have observed what goes on in theatre classes?

 

My daughter is majoring in theatre at a school not known for its department. Nonetheless, I've been impressed at what she's doing and learning in her classes. She's read and discussed with professors and other students many, many plays. She's learned about the history of theatre and the many different styles and genres. She's taken classes in theatre production and costuming and is currently preparing for her first experience directing (from selecting the one-act play through casting and production). She's learned how to hang lights and design posters and many, many other practical skills. And that's before she ever set foot into a classroom to actually study acting, which she's done more of than anything else.

 

Despite the fact that she's done a lot (a LOT) of community theatre and local drama classes over the years, none of those experiences have come close to giving her the training she's getting even in a "just acceptable" college.

 

Theatre is her passion. It's what she's known for, well, pretty much forever, that she wants to do. It's not a hobby. It's her life. It's a huge part of her being.

 

We've had many, many discussions over the last few years about the sacrifices she will likely have to make in order to pursue this full time. She is absolutely prepared to make them. She's prepared to work very hard and not get paid much to do it, because she will be working at something she loves more than anything.

 

She graduates this May and is busy planning her own post-graduate reading list, which includes yet more books about performing, but also several about the business aspects of being a working actor and others about managing one's life regardless of profession.

 

Despite her useless "hobby" degree, I have complete confidence that she will make her way in the world with great success.

Edited by Jenny in Florida
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my mind, an undergraduate degree at a liberal arts college is about getting a broad based education, not about career training. ...and a good school, with a strong program will provide that, regardless of major. We expect to have some input in the list of schools to which which our kids apply, but I think it would be unreasonable of us to put any limits on their major.

 

What I *would* do, is be involved in discussing these choices with my kid - helping him/her explore *why* this area of study, what s/he would like to with those interests, etc... and, further along, I'd be available to think through possible career paths.

 

But I believe that we are given our gifts and passions for a reason, and that to find our best path in life, we need to follow those dreams. ...it can be surprising where they lead!

 

But then I'm weird. I don't think financial security should be such a trump card. I don't think one should plan one's future around job security or earnings potential... I think vocation is the highest trump, and figuring out how to make ends meet while following one's passion will give more life satisfaction than doing things the other way around.

 

But then I grew up without financial security (and with a mother with a significant amount of educational debt), and my life was richer for it. My mother's degrees (graduate and undergraduate) would rate as wildly impractical... but they enriched her lives, and ours, and those of every child she has taught or tutored. Her retirement is insecure, but she makes ends meet... and with joy.

 

My sister majored in theater as an undergraduate and went to the Royal Scottish Academy as a theater major... she took on a ridiculous amount of debt. ...and, no, she could not have achieved the same skill level, experience, or set of contacts without that education. One of her classmates made it big (significant roles in Oscar winners level big), but she hasn't. ...but she is doing work she loves, filling in with other things to pay the bills, and has a satisfying, happy life.

 

My kids are less quixotic than my mother or sister... they are more like me, so far at least, and their dreams all have a strongly pragmatic streak - they wonder, even at a very young age, how they will live their dreams and put food on the table. ...but the dream comes first.

 

 

For any major, any vocation, there are income generating paths... kids who have the skills and determination will find those paths, with the right support. I don't believe it is right to limit kids to *our* visions of what is possible.

 

Disclaimer: I am still sick and feverish, so this might all be incomprehensible gibberish! If so, I am sorry & will try to come back and clean it up when we recover - if I get a chance!

 

Personally, I think this is one of the most coherent and reasonable posts I've ever read on this board.

 

Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

When reading Business Week yesterday I thought of this thread about theater majors. One cannot draw conclusions from one person's career, but maybe a theater major is ok if it combined with a science minor. McGinnis must have taken some science courses to be prepared for a PhD program in environmental engineering.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_12/b4220041560310.htm

 

Innovator: Robert McGinnis of Oasys Water

The former Navy diver was dismayed by how much energy it takes to

desalinate seawater. So he developed a more efficient process

 

...

 

After graduating from Yale with a PhD in environmental engineering in

2009, McGinnis co-founded Boston-based Oasys Water and raised $10

million from three venture capital firms to commercialize the

technology, including developing a thin membrane suitable for forward

osmosis. Oasys plans to start taking orders in late 2011. "Forward

osmosis is on the verge of becoming a buzzword," says Tom Pankratz,

director of the International Desalination Assn. "Oasys has a clever

approach. ... It could potentially be used not only for seawater

desalination but also treating wastewater."

 

McGinnis didn't plan to dedicate his career to desalination. As an

undergraduate he majored in theater and wrote "sci-fi coming-of-age

think-piece mini-epics," he says. Even then, he spent three nights a

week working on desalination experiments, often after late-night play

rehearsals. "I just couldn't accept the idea of trading fuel for

water," he says.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eliana,

 

How about Paris? I am not sure what are the French universities' admissions like for foreign students without a Bac, but if she knows the language - and particularly in such a field - she might profit from a stay in Paris. If you are skeptical about having her in the European system, there is an American university in Paris (which also happens to be, if I recall correctly, pretty much within a more lengthy walking distance from Marais?) and they offer international and comparative politics majors. I am not sure whether it would be a good social or educational fit, just throwing it out there for you to consider. There is a (diverse) Orthodox community in Paris and opportunities to lead a religious lifestyle too - you might even be able to find a place to stay via Jewish organizations, right? I bet there are some families who would be willing to host her, at least temporarily, and/or help her out while she is finding her way at the beginning of the road.

 

Vienna is maybe a less "kosher" option (significantly smaller population on the whole), but it has good universities which are still not completely destroyed by Bologna Process - maybe worth considering, particularly if she is a Yiddish speaker (? maybe not, just thinking of that option too) and language shift would not be a terrible issue for her. Opportunities for music exist too, though from what I hear, unless it is her major occupation in life, she might not be able to formally study it in a major joint with a "regular" university degree. But maybe worth considering, I like Austrian educational atmosphere on the whole, still quite intellectual, she might profit from her stay there too.

 

Italy is not a good fit for that particular field, I am afraid (no outstanding institution with such a program + you can get quite a good idea on what Italian political culture is like even abroad, most of "serious" people have run away from politics), and I am not sure if she would be able to get as much out of a stay in Italy as from a stay in France or Austria or Belgium... Language-wise, socially-wise, etc. I usually recommend Italy for arts, design, private economy (Bocconi), Italian of course, classics, Art History and maye a random other field or two, but that is about it. For other fields, I am afraid you have a better bet in France or Austria which are our closest "options" for going abroad if necessary.

 

I am not familiar with the situation in Belgium, though - maybe that would be worth considering?

 

Are you willing to have her in a European system or you wish to stay within the American one? I have to tell you that after Bologna and "nuovo ordinamento" and the endless reforms there are fewer differences (sadly). You would have to look into the admissions requirements for foreign students to see what are they looking for in terms of language competences and possibly do a year of language study before a degree. It would be worth it to check the specific degree descriptions with courses from several institutions then compare to what she is offered in the American system and see what would be a better fit...

 

Sorry I am not of much help! Not my field. :) But good luck with it!

Edited by Ester Maria
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...