Luckymama Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Voyages in English (the 2006 and new 2011 editions) are completely secular, despite being published by Loyala Press. Exercises in English (the grammar workbooks) are also secular. My kids have used the 2006 editions since (duh) 2006. I may send/have sent them to Catholic schools but we are secular homeschoolers. Religion in non-religion classes makes me twitchy. Note: the older, black and white Voyages in English edition(s) is/are most definitely not secular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 ondreeuh, thanks for the running list on the first page. That makes things easier. How about logic? Lollipop Logic Various CTC books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I think Shurley English/Grammer is secular. I've not seen it though. And maybe GrammerLand? I've only looked through some of that and don't remember any religous content. But it is an older book so it may be in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Nancy Larson Science is also supposed to be secular. AIMS Science GEMS science units Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) I would say that FIAR -- minus the Bible supplement, obviously - is largely secular. There is no mention of God or religion in the main guides, and so far all of the recommended resources that I have found have also been secular. That said, IMO FIAR is informed by a certain sensibility. For example, some of the suggested social studies lessons on values emphasize the importance of obedience, which always strikes me (I'm Jewish) as particularly Christian. The selected picture books are ones that would be largely inoffensive to a religious audience -- no Heather Has Two Mommies here -- and so far (we're only in Vol. 2) none of the characters in any of the books have been anything other than undetermined (most books), Christian, (a couple of books) or Jewish (one book), although there's nothing at all derogatory to anyone else, either. The go-along holiday and seasonal guides that you can buy through digital download are not secular -- the religious stuff that is presumably shunted off to the Bible supplement for the main guide is integrated within for the other guides. I still think that it is very usable for a secular homeschooling family, though (as we are). Edited March 12, 2011 by JennyD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I've only seen the samples for IEW's PALS Writing. It looked secular and I'm seriously considering purchasing it. But I know that Andrew Pudewa is Christian and some of the other materials have christian content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 There is also blatant presentation of religious stories as historical fact in the first The Story of Science book. I didn't make it past the first one. Well, striking those books off my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Well, striking those books off my list. Meh. Those stories are easily skipped. Or they can be used as a jumping off point for discussion. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Robyn Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 on pg 45 A History of US vol 1. 1993 edition- " . . . Their sophisticated culture was flourishing at the time when Christ lived. . . " this caused me to put this book aside. more information can be found here: http://www.textbookleague.org/111hakm.htm There is also blatant presentation of religious stories as historical fact in the first The Story of Science book. I didn't make it past the first one. WHAT??!! I was SO looking forward to those books! I thought I had read many complaints that the tone of the books is pretty negative towards Christianity, so this is unexpected. Can anyone elaborate on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 WHAT??!! I was SO looking forward to those books! I thought I had read many complaints that the tone of the books is pretty negative towards Christianity, so this is unexpected. Can anyone elaborate on this? I love SOTW. In Vol. 1 there are some bible stories. Abraham's story is arguably treated as factual. Honestly, it is not a big deal to skip the few Judeo-Christian stories or to discuss what you think is true. It's easy to treat the Judeo-Christian stories the same way you treat the Greek myths (also included). I love SOTW. It is a great resource. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satori Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Here's more options with links: http://satorismiles.com/curriculum/secular-curriculum/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 WHAT??!! I was SO looking forward to those books! I thought I had read many complaints that the tone of the books is pretty negative towards Christianity, so this is unexpected. Can anyone elaborate on this? Don't panic -- Story of Science is not a Christian textbook. It is an academic history of science, and the religion and mythology and quotations from the Bible and Qu'ran and other holy books are totally appropriate. I don't see how a person can discuss a history of science (or any history) without involving something as culturally relevant as religion. I'm totally uncomfortable with proselytizing, but this is not what's going on in Hakim's Story of Science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammaofbean Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Don't panic -- Story of Science is not a Christian textbook. It is an academic history of science, and the religion and mythology and quotations from the Bible and Qu'ran and other holy books are totally appropriate. I don't see how a person can discuss a history of science (or any history) without involving something as culturally relevant as religion. I'm totally uncomfortable with proselytizing, but this is not what's going on in Hakim's Story of Science. i'm not talking about the quotes, though there are a couple that cause head scratching. i returned the book to the library, so i can't give exact wording, but one example i remember is early on within the text itself there is reference to bringing down the walls of Jericho. i don't think there is proselytizing, just a presentation of religious stories as historical fact and a presumption of Christianity. My whole reason for posting on THIS thread was to point out that these texts are not secular- not to say that they shouldn't be used by anyone who wants to use them. Many things can be tweaked to eliminate religious bias, but these things do not qualify as secular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammaofbean Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 also, this is a review of Einstein Adds a New Dimension: http://www.secular-homeschooling.com/005/einstein.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 WHAT??!! I was SO looking forward to those books! I thought I had read many complaints that the tone of the books is pretty negative towards Christianity, so this is unexpected. Can anyone elaborate on this? No kidding. Given all the barkbarkbark about how she is too liberal, I'd had gotten the idea she was some godless secular humanist. Sigh. One more thing to pre-read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Can you (or someone) elaborate on the Christian nature of LoF?Somewhat longer answer: It's a story with an opinionated narrator (Schmidt). Schmidt is given to diversions about literature, grammar, history, you name it. Religion too, though not, IMHO, in a proselytising way. He refers to characters breaking (or not wanting to break) this or that of the Commandments. There are numerous allusions to biblical stories and some discussion of the Bible in a general way. Schmidt considers there to be a "good" life, as is made plain in the preface to one of the Algebra books, but he's for the most part not proscriptive as to what that means. There are many specific references, dozens in each the high school books, but I don't think listing them will be productive. That said, Schmidt is delightful, and the benefits and pleasures of LOF are many: The math is good, the teaching clear, the plot pulls you along. Schmidt has put great care into the sequencing of questions and teaches as the student works the problems. A rare feat in a textbook. However, if you want strictly secular books, these are not for you. As for the characters, here are few examples to give the flavor of the Christian references: A chaplain in one of the Algebra books is preparing a sermon involving (this is fuzzy... it's been awhile) virgins (I think the story is from the Bible) and puzzles how to explain it to Fred (6-1/2 yo) and ends up with a bizarre interlude about lightbulbs. Two characters go for premarital counseling with a minister. Fred contemplates how heaven will look (this is actually a very funny sequence, with Fred trapped in a bookstore children's area). A note about Pre-Algebra with Biology: While evolution isn't specifically mentioned (other than humorously in the introduction), there is nothing in this book that is anti-evolution or that undermines its teaching. Nothing. In fact, the chapters on genetics would lead nicely into a unit on evolution. My only beef is that the material on meiosis doesn't appear to be as well thought out as the rest of the book. Edited March 12, 2011 by nmoira Clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 also, this is a review of Einstein Adds a New Dimension: http://www.secular-homeschooling.com/005/einstein.html I always like her reviews. This is a great thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 You can add Kinetic Books, Key to series, Jacobs Algebra and Jacobs Geometry to the math section Prentice Hall Science Explorer (for middle school) to the science section I think you can add Spelling Power to the LA section. I've been using it for years and don't recall any religious content, but I haven't looked at anything aside from the word lists in at least the past 8-9 years and my copy is from 10 years ago when I first bought it for my oldest. There may be stuff in the newer editions that wasn't in mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I happened to read the old thread about RS4K a few days ago and had a look through the texts available on their website. One problem seems to be that, in attempting to produce something that can be marketed to both secular and fundamentalist groups, they have had to omit some key material, thus lowering the quality of the program. One example is the section in the astronomy book which covers astronomical distances. AU and parsecs are covered, but not light years. They've covered the more technical terminology, so some might argue that they're being more rigorous, but I think that it's still important for kids to be familiar with the term 'light year'. It's widely used in non-specialist material, plus it's easier for kids to get a handle on just how huge the distances involved are. A number involving a lot of zeros doesn't really mean much to most people, but the idea that it takes light an entire year to travel a distance helps convey the scale of it. The catch, for anyone trying to avoid any hint of "millions of years" (in order to appease the YEC crowd), is that if you explain what a light year is and then give any distances that are greater than 6000 light years, a smart kid is going to catch on to the idea that the light from objects at those distances must have been in transit for that many years. So, to avoid all that, they stick to parsecs, leaving kids in the dark about the scale that is involved and unaware of the terminology that's used in many resources about astronomy (particularly those for kids and general readers). For us, these sorts of omissions are as much a problem as any particular religious material that might be included in a curriculum (perhaps more so, since they're not as easy to spot). It suggests to me that the author is more interested in appeasing the YEC crowd than giving kids a good understanding of science. Meanwhile the YEC people could probably make a similar argument about problems caused by trying to appeal to the secular market. Science is not a subject where you can have a program that's all things to all people. I think that YEC folk looking to teach their kids their particular slant on things would find that it fails to do that either. If people want a creationist curriculum, there are plenty available, just as there are plenty of solid science programs available with a secular approach. Cutting out anything that anyone could possibly take issue with results in a program that can't fully meet anyone's needs. Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Can you back that up with examples of content that undermine evolution? Well, if you page through the Biology 1 book she uses the word 'designed' at least 5 times. "Plants are designed..."etc. A question (I'm curious) ~ what verb should be used there, to please atheists/etc? I'm just thinking that 'designed' doesn't necessarily mean "by God" (unless it says so) ... does it? Could it not mean "designed by the Big Bang"? (or anything else) I was raised in an Atheist home for a large portion of my childhood, and I don't think that I'd have jumped from the word 'designed' to the idea of God as a child - considering that I'd been taught at home that there was no such thing and whatnot... It just seems like ANY word that you put there could be then said to mean a Creator (in the sense of God)... Plants are created... Plants are designed... Plants are made to... Plants are set up to... Plants are built so that... I don't know, I can't find a verb that couldn't be said to give that impression if you saw it that way... (I'm not sticking my nose in here to argue or anything - I just read the quotes and started wondering what WOULD be considered suitable wording there...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 For history, I still like SWB's recs of using Usborne, Kingfisher and perhaps other encyclopedias to introduce topics and then reading from a large variety of authors on the topics under study. It seems to me that different folks classify "religious" in different ways, so I'm not sure what your definition might be.... Story of the World isn't "religious." It includes religious topics because those are part of history. Her histories regarding the ancient and medieval worlds written for adults could be used with high school students. There are numerous high school texts available that are secular, some more liberal than others. I don't really prefer texts at any age.... If you look at Hippocampus.org you can find under their U.S. history some of their recommended texts for high school. I suspect most of these are more liberal in tone. They don't offer world history. (They do have government.) Joy Hakim's History of US is a strictly American study that's geared toward middle schoolers, but it is more liberal in tone as you move through the series. You don't say what age your children are, so I'm not sure what you're looking for.... For science, I also continue to like SWB's recs and those are secular in nature. Using science reference books to introduce topics, experimenting and reading widely on the topic are, in my opinion, the best way to pursue the subject. Some secular science programs: Chemistry - Ellen McHenry's The Elements and her organic chemistry follow-up (she also has additional info at her website); Friendly Chemistry; Fizz! Bubble! Flash! The Mebane and Rybolt books SWB recommends (there are way more than she mentions); the free, downloadable middle-school chem curriculum put out by the American Chemical Society which has been circulating these boards this year; Radar's Chem4Kids website; there's some stuff at MSNucleus.org, also free. I'm not sure if Mr. Q has put out a chem program yet, or not.... Perhaps Conceptual Chemistry for high school.... Physics - various Thames and Kosmos kits or Science in a Nutshell kits (as recommended by SWB); Radar's Physics4Kids site; Conceptual Physics (junior high or high school). I think this Bite Size Physics is secular: http://www.sciencejim.com/books.html I don't know if this Middle School Physics is secular, or not: http://www.the-simple-homeschool.com/simple-schooling-physics.html How Products are Made: http://www.madehow.com/index.html This is secular: http://www.csun.edu/science/books/physics/index.html Earth Science - again, Science in a Nutshell kits; Ring of Fire is a secular program for middle or high schoolers, I believe; the MSNucleus website has good, free programming; Oregon State's Volcano world has free curriculum. NASA has free space science curriculum online; Radar's Geology4Kids or Geography4Kids, etc., etc. Biology - again, Science in a Nutshell kits. Living books and encyclopedias, as well as raising or observing critters, is in my opinion the best way to approach this study in the elementary years, adding in a good microscope and study using it at some point. Kym Wright has out some unit studies on Birds, Plants, etc. that are good for middle or high school. She might have out some things for younger children, too, I haven't looked. There are a ton of free lapbooks online now that could be added in to biology studies to help provide a writing component to the program and to use for memory work, etc. Hoagland's Exploring the Way Life Works is one secular text that could be used for junior high or high school level work. (As someone recently pointed out, it has not been updated lately.) There are numerous texts that a serious science student may use for AP study (Campbell's, etc.) I believe that all the traditional texts for Latin, such as Henle, Jenney's, Oxford, etc. are all secular. Galore Park offers secular programming for elementary. Minimus is a fun intro for littles. For Spanish, McGraw Hill has a colorful workbook with CD called Learning Spanish with Children; they also put out in their Complete series a big workbook that could be used over multiple years (The Complete Book of Spanish). Various companies (Milliken, McGraw Hill, etc.) put out workbooks that could be used for a writing component. Rosetta Stone is good, but very expensive. Powerglide has changed over to a new name now that I can't recall. They were not as good, in my opinion, but maybe they've updated and they didn't use to be as expensive as Rosetta Stone. There's an online option at Livemocha.com that is not as expensive (but there is still expense involved). I didn't find Learning Spanish with Children to be religious in nature, so I don't think their Learning Latin with Children would be that way, either.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satori Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 It just seems like ANY word that you put there could be then said to mean a Creator (in the sense of God)... Plants are created... Plants are designed... Plants are made to... Plants are set up to... Plants are built so that... Well, you just skip the extra "are designed" verbs and just say what you want to say. In my DK Encyclopedia of Nature (or any other science book), I don't see any of those extra words in there. They just say it: "Plants grow most abundantly in the warm, damp tropics." "Most plants are rooted in soil and use the energy in sunlight..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundAbout Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 A question (I'm curious) ~ what verb should be used there, to please atheists/etc? I'm just thinking that 'designed' doesn't necessarily mean "by God" (unless it says so) ... does it? Could it not mean "designed by the Big Bang"? (or anything else) The word 'evolved' would be be most appropriate to my mind, but a text that simply skipped it all together with something like 'plants are...' would be acceptable to me as an atheist. The Big Bang or the process of evolution doesn't 'design' or 'create' or 'set up' living thing to work in any particular way. Evolution is a dynamic process where species transform through a combination of random genetic mutation and pressure from the environment. I would consider any of the words you listed to be editorializing in a non-secular way. BTW, I just want to say how helpful this discussion is for those of who are beginning our homeschooling journey and want to use secular materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 The Drama of American History ought to be included as a secular middle-stage US history series. Better than Hakim in any case. Bill I've read a few of these, and they are good, but I don't think they'd make a very good spine. The ones that I looked at each had 6 chapters, and the first three chapters reviewed things that I had read in earlier books. The authors wrote the series with the intention that each book would be able to stand alone, so that middle-schoolers could read an individual book while researching specific topics. If you wanted to use the series as a spine, the repetition might do you in before you even get to the revolutionary war. Just my $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Chemistry - Ellen McHenry's The Elements and her organic chemistry follow-upThe Elements is secular, but Carbon Chemistry is not. Crimson Wife posted a couple short excerpts that are unequivocally not secular (I'll dog them up later). However, they are not an integral part of the text and can be easily omitted. I was very disappointed upon finding this out, especially because the comments are extraneous and there is no indication on the websitethat it is not strictly secular. We had enjoyed The Elements, so I thought it was safe to order the follow-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 The Elements is secular, but Carbon Chemistry is not. Crimson Wife posted a couple short excerpts that are unequivocally not secular (I'll dog them up later). However, they are not an integral part of the text and can be easily omitted. I was very disappointed upon finding this out, especially because the comments are extraneous and there is no indication on the websitethat it is not strictly secular. We had enjoyed The Elements, so I thought it was safe to order the follow-up. Ellen McHenry is also behind the Dominion Science Center whose philosophical positions include: We believe the world was created by God and given to mankind to enjoy and to conserve. We seek truth in all things and will not present a scientific theory as fact Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Huh - I haven't found them yet! Thanks for the info.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 It just seems like ANY word that you put there could be then said to mean a Creator (in the sense of God)... Plants are created... Plants are designed... Plants are made to... Plants are set up to... Plants are built so that... I don't know, I can't find a verb that couldn't be said to give that impression if you saw it that way... I like the word "adapted". I think of living things as having adaptations that evolved over time. Whether one believes the adaptations are a result of innate intelligence present in all living things, or random variation and natural selection, or a combination of both, to me the word fits the situation without hinting that some external cosmic being made them that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmia Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 To pursue a entirely secular homeschooling experience takes a great deal of work. Many wonderful pick-up-and-go curricula have been developed by religious homeschoolers that teach the concepts of writing, math, history etc. very well, but that also teach religious beliefs at the same time. A secular homeschooler, then, is challenged to adapt these materials to their belief system or to similarly adapt public school materials that are designed for a classroom and not a homeschool environment. There are some materials that aren't purely secular that I love (such as Teaching the Classics and SWR) and tweak to use, there are some that I've heard are great and wish I could use, but would take too much of my time to tweak. So I am challenged to assemble resources from other sources much of the time. Sometimes we limit ourselves by looking for secular "homeschooling" resources. There has not been the same energy expended toward curriculum development for secular homeschoolers--the market is (I assume) smaller and the work would be less likely to have financial backing from an organization (church, religious university) and thus would have to be the effort of an individual. Because of this, we need to look for materials geared to the general public and then create our own homeschooling methods to use them (SWB's copywork/dictation/narration/timeline/outline/etc. progression works with this). Of course, this is a lot more work than a pick-up-and-go curriculum. You might find the "living books" approach a better fit for your needs. If you want science, find books written by scientists or materials written by science organizations (NASA, National Science Foundation) or science writers, or find materials on lists produced by science organizations (e.g. The New York Academy of Science Children's Science Book Awards) . If you want history: look for materials produced by historians, history professors, historical societies, etc. The same goes for the other disciplines. Of course, we can hope that people are writing the pick-up-and-go secular curricula we'd like as we speak, but until then there are stacks of resources out there, they're just not labeled "homeschooling" or even "curricula." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 The Elements is secular, but Carbon Chemistry is not. Crimson Wife posted a couple short excerpts that are unequivocally not secular (I'll dog them up later). However, they are not an integral part of the text and can be easily omitted. I was very disappointed upon finding this out, especially because the comments are extraneous and there is no indication on the websitethat it is not strictly secular. We had enjoyed The Elements, so I thought it was safe to order the follow-up. FYI here is a thread w/Crimson Mom's excerpts from Carbon Chem. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Sometimes we limit ourselves by looking for secular "homeschooling" resources. I've found most of our materials by specifically not looking for things that are marketed to homeschoolers. If I stay away from the "homeschool" tag, I find a lot more things that will work for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 As others have provided some good specific lists of materials, here are some general guidelines for choosing secular materials: If it is from a publisher whose main customers are public schools, then it is secular. In general, if the material is produced primarily for the homeschooling market, you need to be suspicious. Look at the "about the author" or "about us" page on the website for the material you are considering. If it mentions anything about religion, the material is probably not secular, even if the author says that it is. I'm serious about this. If you're still interested in the material and the author says it's secular, if there is a sample online, try searching for words that might point to a non-secular nature: God, Christian, church, etc. If you ask here, as you can see from the dialogue concerning Life of Fred, you will get a variety of responses. Part of the problem seems to be that some Christians (not all, of course) genuinely don't notice the religious references. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I just thought of another one -- The Core Knowledge books are secular, as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 A question (I'm curious) ~ what verb should be used there, to please atheists/etc? I'm just thinking that 'designed' doesn't necessarily mean "by God" (unless it says so) ... does it? Could it not mean "designed by the Big Bang"? (or anything else) I was raised in an Atheist home for a large portion of my childhood, and I don't think that I'd have jumped from the word 'designed' to the idea of God as a child - considering that I'd been taught at home that there was no such thing and whatnot... It just seems like ANY word that you put there could be then said to mean a Creator (in the sense of God)... Plants are created... Plants are designed... Plants are made to... Plants are set up to... Plants are built so that... I don't know, I can't find a verb that couldn't be said to give that impression if you saw it that way... (I'm not sticking my nose in here to argue or anything - I just read the quotes and started wondering what WOULD be considered suitable wording there...) I dug this out from the archives. Lovedtodeath 04-20-2009, 03:13 PM I guess what I mean is: Can you give an example of a sentence with designed in it and rephrase the sentence without using the term evolved? FWIW no science curriculum accurately portrays my beliefs between evolution and creation, so I just present both and explain accordingly. Lovedtodeath04-20-2009, 03:17 PM (e.g. "flowers are designed to..." instead of "flowers function as..."). I see. Good example. Any more? MyCrazyHouse04-20-2009, 06:18 PM I haven't seen RS4K, but have read reports in more than one forum about the unnecessary use of the word "designed" (e.g. "flowers are designed to..." instead of "flowers function as..."). I'm not sure whether Keller's use of the terminology is intentionally deceptive, but given her background, I'm not willing to extend the benefit of the doubt. That type of terminology could be viewed as "priming" for ID arguments down the road. I am a secular, non-Christian homeschooler. I used "designed" in reference to human biology all the time, e.g. Kid: "I am SO sick of blowing my nose!!!" Me: "It's functioning as designed. Your mucous membranes secrete more than the regular amount of fluids when blah, blah..." Is there anyone here delusional enough to suggest I am priming my children for ID arguments down the road? I fully expect a person of faith to experience the fruits of scientific inquiry - as everything else in their lives - from that perspective. And it doesn't make the fruits of that inquiry bad science. Many of the scientific "big names" - Copernicus, Galilei, Newton, Mendel, Kelvin, not to mention the whole slew of non-European scientists that predated them - were people of deep faith. Seeing the molecular structure of a leaf and remarking on the glory of <insert deity here> in this creation does not change the molecular structure of the leaf. All I'm saying is don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) This is Part 2. Part 1 is here. English/Grammar Saxon/Hake Grammar and Writing Growing with Grammar Voyages in English LA - newer editions (Loyola) Exercises in English grammar - newer editions (Loyola) Oak Meadow Michael Clay Thompson LA First Language Lessons (Peace Hill Press) Analytical Grammar and Jr. Analytical Grammar Easy Grammar The Complete Book of Grammar and Punctuation Cozy Grammar KISS Grammar (free online) Shurley English Jensen (includes Jensen's Grammar, Journey Through Grammar Land, Jensen's Format Writing) Writing Writing with Ease (Peace Hill Press) Writing Skills (EPS) The Paragraph Book (EPS) Just Write (EPS) Write Source The Writer's Jungle (BraveWriter) Writing Strands Writing Tales???? Institute for Excellence in Writing ???? Razzle Dazzle Handwriting Handwriting Without Tears Getty-Dubay Italic Italics, Beautiful Handwriting for Children Zaner Bloser My Best Handwriting Spelling/Vocabulary All About Spelling Megawords (EPS) Sequential Spelling Apples & Pears spelling (dyslexia) Soaring with Spelling Spelling Mastery (SRA) Spelling Through Morphographs (SRA) Spellwell (EPS) ClickN Spell Vocabulary Vocabulary in Action (Loyola) Dynamic Literacy Vocabulary Wordly Wise 3000 (EPS) Vocabulary Workshop (Sadlier-Oxford) Reading Phonics Pathways Primary Phonics (EPS) Dancing Bears reading (dyslexia) Explode the Code (EPS) Beyond the Code (EPS) Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading (Peace Hill Press) Progressive Phonics (free online) All About Reading Teach Your Child to Read in 100 EZ Lessons McRuffy (3rd grade LA has both a religious & secular option, scroll down for secular) Funnix Abecedarian REWARDS Reading (remedial) ClickN Read Phonics Latin Latin Prep (Galore Park) So You Really Want to Learn Latin (Galore Park) Getting Started with Latin Basic Language Principles with Latin Background (out of print) Latin's Not So Tough (to grade 5) Minimus Tabula Latina Power-Glide Latin Lively Latin Cambridge Latin Ecce Romani First Latin? (Can't find link- First Form Latin is def. Christian) Spanish Elementary Spanish (included with Discovery Streaming) So You Really Want to Learn Spanish (Galore Park) Learnables Spanish Visual Link Spanish, Rosetta Stone, Power-Glide, etc. -there are many more Spanish programs, esp. marketed to the parent and public school markets- Logic Critical Thinking Company products (includes MindBenders, Building Thinking Skills) Socratic Logic Prufrock Press products (includes Lollipop Logic, Safari Logic) The Art of Argument?? Edited March 14, 2011 by ondreeuh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerMom Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Mosaic is another secular history option (and free!!!): bringinguplearners.com/mosaic/ You can choose a version that starts with prehistory/evolution or one that starts with early civ. They've got equivalent to SOTW 1 and 2, but not beyond. The level 1 AG and schedule look pretty good. Edited March 12, 2011 by ChandlerMom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 At least BEFORE Five In A Row has a book about Jesus as one of the texts to read/discuss/do activities about. If Jesus Came To My House or something like that. From what I can see in my 100 EZ Lessons, it's secular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I wanted to point out a disclaimer for Five In A Row. It is published by a company that definitely identifies as Christian. Volumes 1-3 may have the Bible supplement as a separate guide, but Volume 4 includes the Bible supplement. I'm hesitant to join in the conversation, because certain references either aren't on my radar or wouldn't cause concern and I am a Christian. I just had to point out the FIAR issue for those who may take issue. It would be very easy to work around, but I know not everyone wants to do that. :001_smile: Thank you for the science and history listings, those are very helpful to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Cozy Grammar is another one. All the subjects in Galore Park are secular. I thought I saw that one on the list earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwjeanie Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 We have been using http://www.connectthethoughts.net and have been really happy with it so far. Totally secular, but that doesn't mean he takes out all references to religion....he presents them all equally.....which, as an atheist, I appreciate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Thanks! I have been adding them to the list as I see them here. I have linked both lists to my signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Now so far in the McRuffy stuff I have used K, 1st, and 2nd is all secular. Down to Earth Geography Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txhomemom Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Critical Thinking Company has tons of secular products for various subjects including Editor in Chief, Math Detective, Science Detective, Reading Detective, Mind Benders, Punctuation Puzzlers, Word Roots, etc. Also, EPS is good for lots of different options (some already mentioned on here), Explode the Code, How to Teach Spelling, Just Write, Writing Skills, Spell of Words, Spellwell, Vocabulary from Classical Roots, Worldly Wise, Writing Skills, and more. I wanted to mentioned that Grammar of Spelling is NOT secular. It is usable in a secular manner, but there are several words within the spelling lists that would be questionable for someone trying to buy 100% secular products. Edupress is another company that has strictly secular materials. They have history and science coloring and activity books and more. Then there is Evan-Moor which makes a lot of workbooks in various subjects like math, language arts, history, geography, etc. Texas Tech has a completely secular K-12 program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Hooked on Phonics. (great job, ondreeuh!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Thanks, I must have missed that discussion and I haven't picked up the book to actually use yet; just have browsed through it. I never would have guessed that it was any different from the first book. This doesn't bother me, as I am a Christian and am not seeking to exclude any such comments whatsoever in books we read, but now I'll know not to recommend it to someone looking for completely secular things.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txhomemom Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Another one I forgot to mention earlier: Razzle Dazzle Language Arts (has both writing and grammar curriculum that is completely secular) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I would say that FIAR -- minus the Bible supplement, obviously - is largely secular. There is no mention of God or religion in the main guides, and so far all of the recommended resources that I have found have also been secular. That said, IMO FIAR is informed by a certain sensibility. For example, some of the suggested social studies lessons on values emphasize the importance of obedience, which always strikes me (I'm Jewish) as particularly Christian. The selected picture books are ones that would be largely inoffensive to a religious audience -- no Heather Has Two Mommies here -- and so far (we're only in Vol. 2) none of the characters in any of the books have been anything other than undetermined (most books), Christian, (a couple of books) or Jewish (one book), although there's nothing at all derogatory to anyone else, either. The go-along holiday and seasonal guides that you can buy through digital download are not secular -- the religious stuff that is presumably shunted off to the Bible supplement for the main guide is integrated within for the other guides. I still think that it is very usable for a secular homeschooling family, though (as we are). We are also a secular family using FIAR. Before FIAR (for ages 2-4) is not secular, although it would be pretty easy to skip over the suggested Bible stuff and skip the two religious books. FIAR Vols 1-3 don't include religious material - you can buy a separate "Christian Character Supplement" - but if you buy the "Superbook" that has all three volumes, instead of buying each separately, the Christian elements are included. As previously mentioned, Vol. 4 has the Christian elements incorporated. The FIAR message boards are so, so, so very Christian. But the archives are extremely useful for planning. What I notice most about FIAR having been written by devout evangelical Christians is the missed lesson opportunities. When you study Madeline and Madeline has her appendix out, there's no lesson explaining what the appendix is. (I made up a very nice lesson about vestigial organs.) Or in another book, there's a lesson about coal that somehow avoids explaining what coal is, presumably because of the "millions of years" problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I forgot to say that Visual Link Spanish is secular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brasilmom Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 We have been using www.connectthethoughts.net and have been really happy with it so far. Totally secular, but that doesn't mean he takes out all references to religion....he presents them all equally.....which, as an atheist, I appreciate. For what grade are you using this program? I am currently looking for secular science program and would love to hear more about it. Thanks. Be well Miriam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakereese Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 What I notice most about FIAR having been written by devout evangelical Christians is the missed lesson opportunities. When you study Madeline and Madeline has her appendix out, there's no lesson explaining what the appendix is. (I made up a very nice lesson about vestigial organs.) Or in another book, there's a lesson about coal that somehow avoids explaining what coal is, presumably because of the "millions of years" problem. :iagree: I have noticed this too, and I'm trying to add some things in (especially basic science). I love your ideas! Do you have a list of your lesson plans, or things that you added in that you feel were lacking? TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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