How "smart" is your Aspie?

[Rhonda in TX]

My son was in private school until halfway through 3rd grade. He always made good grades - all A's. He was known for being very smart. However, over the past couple of years, things have become very hard for him. He's 14 now and really struggles. He's making C's and D's in math and science. He can't remember things and struggles with concepts. For example, we spent some time recently on dividing fractions. Today he had to do it again and could not remember how. He gets so frustrated!

 

I ran into an old friend from our school days who asked "Is DS as smart as ever?" Honestly, all I could think was "no, he's not". DH says it's "middle school boy brain" but I'm not so sure. Has anybody seen this with their Aspie?

[melmichigan]

I'm not sure. My DD was very good in math when she left PS, achievement scores 135+ in math. We used a mastery approach over the next 2.5 years and she is now struggling to remember things she learned and mastered long ago. She actually chose to do Saxon math the second half of this year, which I never would have dreamed of using in the past, and is doing much better with it.

 

We just started seeing a neurophsychologist who specializes in spectrum disorders in kids with IQ's over 135 and are discussing the possibility of doing some achievement testing to see where my DD is now. We are currently waiting on her Explore scores to compare them with last years before we move forward. We are still discussing why this occurred so I'm not sure that I have any advice yet.

[Rhonda in TX]

We switched to Saxon this year because of the review in it, but now I'm thinking it doesn't give enough practice with new concepts. We've backed up and I bought Math Mammoth supplement worksheets to give him more practice.

 

I've considered a full neurodevelopmental workup to find out where his problems actually lie, but I'm not sure if insurance will cover it or not.

[pdalley]

I've noticed a 'slow down'. I honestly think it's anything multi-step that mine have trouble with. My brother is an Aspie with a high IQ and he struggled with multi-step things until late high school/early college. He could do them - it just took him longer and he had to pay more attention to avoid careless mistakes. I see that with mine as well.

 

And I think a little brain fog comes into play too. My 14 year old is in a very under stimulated cycle - it's like slogging through mud to get his work done - not because he's reluctant or its too hard - he's just slow.

[Rhonda in TX]

My son doesn't like anything that takes a long time, so that would explain the careless mistakes that he often makes. Multi-step problems can be especially difficult.

 

DH says that DS will get there, it's just going to take some time. I worry that I've messed him up in some way, so it's reassuring to hear that others are experiencing some of the same things.

[Misty]

Yes, I noticed this with my Aspies.. And their IQ test results have also gone down as they got older.

 

My 13yr old is still very smart/advanced.. But she struggles (and could be considered behind) in some areas that she was advanced in around age 7..

 

My 10yr old was doing multiplication in her head when she was four years old (consistently and accurately!).. But now she does not seem to be particularly advanced in math.. Her IQ is still in the gifted range, but her academic performance is average.

 

I blame gluten..:thumbdown:

[kiwi mum]

My DS (age 10) was "scary smart" at age two, but then seemed to lose interest in anything academic until he turned five. He took off again at that point, reading chapter books within six months and just gobbling up anything I threw at him. He still hasn't slowed down and is currently finishing up Geometry and Physical Science so I have no concerns about him "getting behind" if he does slow down in the middle school years.

 

I find the comment about gluten interesting, as I have only just made the connection recently between the huge leap he made at age five and the fact that we went gluten free at that same time. My DH tried eating gluten again recently and had no noticable physical effects (he used to get severe pain) but he had major brain fog and depression like symptoms which improved as soon as he stopped the gluten again. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but it might be worth looking into.

[Rhonda in TX]

Gluten free, huh. Oh, boy. I've been feeling like I need to try that, but have not wanted to. I'll look into it some more.

[Stacy in NJ]

Many Aspies have really good concrete simple fact/rule based memories. This helps them through grammar stage when most learning is relatively rote. Once they reach Logic stage when higher order thinking skills, inference skills, and larger logical leaps that depend on implied information are required, they may struggle.

[cjbeach]

Many Aspies have really good concrete simple fact/rule based memories. This helps them through grammar stage when most learning is relatively rote. Once they reach Logic stage when higher order thinking skills, inference skills, and larger logical leaps that depend on implied information are required, they may struggle.

YES!

How'd I miss this? I posted almost the EXACT same scenario this moring on the k-8 board! My 10yo Aspie, hyperlexic, reading since ?23ish months is suddenly hitting a major wall in Math. We use MM and I"m questioning whether or not to leave it behind, take time off, go to something more drill & kill (like Saxon). Wow. Looks like we're all going through the same thing at the same time.

 

My ds is also the type of kids who can do *amazing* things, when he choses to do so ;). His piano teacher recently remarked how fantastic his conversation and eye contact is when it's a subject that interests HIM. I wish they made a math program where every problem contained any of the following words: Mario, Sonic, PacMAn (he's old school these days) and Popeye (again, old school interests these days).

Edited March 11, 2011 by cjbeach

[MamaSheep]

Many Aspies have really good concrete simple fact/rule based memories. This helps them through grammar stage when most learning is relatively rote. Once they reach Logic stage when higher order thinking skills, inference skills, and larger logical leaps that depend on implied information are required, they may struggle.

 

This is the conclusion I've come to with regard to my Aspie. And also I think that so many academic things came so easily to him when he was little that it's a bit of shock when he comes up against academics that he actually has to WORK for. It's strange and unfamiliar to have to work to learn, and we all know how well strange and unfamiliar goes over with Aspies. Although I'm still hoping some of it is adolescent brain fog that may lift a bit in a few years. I am getting a bit tired of the general mope he's got going on.

[HeidiD]

We use MM and I"m questioning whether or not to leave it behind, take time off, go to something more drill & kill (like Saxon).

 

Saxon can be good because the spiral approach (multiple problem types within each practice set) helps avoid the repetitious rut some Aspies tend to gravitate toward. The narrow focus that often becomes their comfort zone is partly the cause of difficulties in math. We don't stick with a single program (my daughter did Algebra two years in a row with different programs before gaining a thorough grasp of the subject).

 

I wish they made a math program where every problem contained any of the following words: Mario, Sonic, PacMAn (he's old school these days) and Popeye (again, old school interests these days).

 

 

:lol:

[Mesa]

Yep! I was just wondering if the problem was with me as a teacher... am I failing? By the sounds of it no, I am not. Whew!

Math was his strongest subject and now it's one of his weakest... next to writing. He's NEVER been a good writer. (Excellent reader too)

I've tried all sorts of Math.. Singapore, MM, TT, Horizons, MUS, BJU, and Saxon. I think he does best with a mix of MUS (so he can "see" the math and get the wonderful teaching tps from the teacher... but he also needs the review of Saxon on a daily basis. We are moving over to K12 in another two weeks and I've heard their math is a lot like Saxon.. I hope so! If not it looks like I'll be pulling out my Saxon worksheets for my ds. He needs the constant review and repetition Saxon provides.

[Misty]

Many Aspies have really good concrete simple fact/rule based memories. This helps them through grammar stage when most learning is relatively rote. Once they reach Logic stage when higher order thinking skills, inference skills, and larger logical leaps that depend on implied information are required, they may struggle.

 

That too... :lol:

[Stacy in NJ]

Because they're used to being successful they're shocked when the goal posts shift and they struggle. Because they're rigid in their outlook they don't understand why this shift is happening and resist it. This makes them anxious, and it becomes even more difficult to teach them and for them to learn. It becomes a negative feedback loop.

 

BTW, I don't have an Aspie but do tutor the child of a df who has a diagnosis of PDD-NOS who has (imo) some Aspie like traits.

 

 

This is the conclusion I've come to with regard to my Aspie. And also I think that so many academic things came so easily to him when he was little that it's a bit of shock when he comes up against academics that he actually has to WORK for. It's strange and unfamiliar to have to work to learn, and we all know how well strange and unfamiliar goes over with Aspies. Although I'm still hoping some of it is adolescent brain fog that may lift a bit in a few years. I am getting a bit tired of the general mope he's got going on.

[Rhonda in TX]

I really appreciate everyone adding to this conversation. I'm so glad to know that other parents of Aspies are facing the same struggles.

 

I am wondering about continuing with Saxon. I've wondered if it switches topics too much, if he needs something with more practice of new concepts, but still lots of review. Does such a program exist?

[Misty]

Because they're used to being successful they're shocked when the goal posts shift and they struggle. Because they're rigid in their outlook they don't understand why this shift is happening and resist it. This makes them anxious, and it becomes even more difficult to teach them and for them to learn. It becomes a negative feedback loop.

 

YES!! Very, very true.. This describes my 13yr old mild Aspie. The elementary grades were a breeze for her.. She was such a phenomenal reader and never had to work at anything.. Then junior high comes along and she actually has to *think* and not just absorb and memorize.. Very frustrating for her.

[HeidiD]

I am wondering about continuing with Saxon. I've wondered if it switches topics too much, if he needs something with more practice of new concepts, but still lots of review. Does such a program exist?

 

Rhonda, have you tried Key Curriculum Press?

 

http://www.keypress.com/x6469.xml

 

My Aspie used these, and now I'm using them with my dyslexic son as a supplement to Saxon. Lots of review, with a narrower focus than Saxon, which helps nail down some of the concepts he initially finds confusing or just needs more practice to cement.

[Rhonda in TX]

Rhonda, have you tried Key Curriculum Press?

 

http://www.keypress.com/x6469.xml

 

My Aspie used these, and now I'm using them with my dyslexic son as a supplement to Saxon. Lots of review, with a narrower focus than Saxon, which helps nail down some of the concepts he initially finds confusing or just needs more practice to cement.

 

I have, and I've used them in the past for more practice. Right now I'm using some Math Mammoth supplement worksheets, but she doesn't have anything for Algebra yet. I notice there's a Key to Algebra set.

 

So you use these in addition to Saxon? Do you add them to a regular assignment, or stretch it over more days, or what? I think DS would have a fit if I tried to make his assignments longer. Right now, we're just going back and working on weaker skills, so it's not actually more work, just more focused.

 

I'm also wondering about using the Art Reed DVDs. I have a degree in math, so I definitely understand all the concepts. I'm just not sure if I'm the right person to explain them to him.

[MamaSheep]

I really appreciate everyone adding to this conversation. I'm so glad to know that other parents of Aspies are facing the same struggles.

 

I am wondering about continuing with Saxon. I've wondered if it switches topics too much, if he needs something with more practice of new concepts, but still lots of review. Does such a program exist?

 

We've switched math programs a bit too. Right now I am madly in love with MUS for my Aspie precisely because it gives me more control over how much practice he gets with new concepts, and how much review we do. When he gets a concept right away we can just move on to the next thing without getting bogged down in what he sees as pointless review, but when it takes him a while to really catch on (cough..fractions...cough) we can do as many practice pages as it takes. And then we can do as many (or as few) "systematic review" pages as I think are in our best interest also. And the pages are uncluttered and have a number of problems that is realistic for him (with his writing 'issues') to get through.

 

I heart it. I heart it a lot. That is all.

[Rhonda in TX]

We've switched math programs a bit too. Right now I am madly in love with MUS for my Aspie precisely because it gives me more control over how much practice he gets with new concepts, and how much review we do. When he gets a concept right away we can just move on to the next thing without getting bogged down in what he sees as pointless review, but when it takes him a while to really catch on (cough..fractions...cough) we can do as many practice pages as it takes. And then we can do as many (or as few) "systematic review" pages as I think are in our best interest also. And the pages are uncluttered and have a number of problems that is realistic for him (with his writing 'issues') to get through.

 

I heart it. I heart it a lot. That is all.

 

What level are you using?

[MamaSheep]

What level are you using?

Well, right now we're doing some remedial work in fractions.

[HeidiD]

So you use these in addition to Saxon? Do you add them to a regular assignment, or stretch it over more days, or what? I think DS would have a fit if I tried to make his assignments longer. Right now, we're just going back and working on weaker skills, so it's not actually more work, just more focused.

 

 

Not both in the same day. I switch back and forth, sometimes doing the Key books for a week or two, and skipping parts here and there (as we also end up doing with Saxon because some of the repetition gets to be overkill :)).

 

My Aspie daughter used the Keys Algebra set exclusively, and then did a repeat of algebra with another program. Key to Algebra was a good intro for her because she's so visual and she loves workbooks. I think for my son I'll keep mixing it with Saxon.

 

I'm also wondering about using the Art Reed DVDs.

 

I'm not familiar with them, but if it's something he can watch on his own, that might be helpful for you.

 

I have a degree in math, so I definitely understand all the concepts. I'm just not sure if I'm the right person to explain them to him.

 

:) I know what you mean. It can be difficult to break down topics into simplistic enough form or into a sufficiently incremental explanation, or to provide an adequate amount of detail without causing overload - particularly when concepts seem kind of obvious to us. And we're emotionally invested in the outcome, so we want to do the best that we can. Definitely a challenging job we've all taken on!

[Maeintx]

My son doesn't like anything that takes a long time, so that would explain the careless mistakes that he often makes. Multi-step problems can be especially difficult.

 

DH says that DS will get there, it's just going to take some time. I worry that I've messed him up in some way, so it's reassuring to hear that others are experiencing some of the same things.

 

I've actually had the concerns that I"ve messed my boy up so it was reassuring for me to read your post .

 

My son is younger 10. But he struggles with having to learn things now. Everything was so easy for him earlier on, reading, math concepts, but now it is work for him and he doesn't like it one bit. He still is a whiz with spelling but multistep math problems are torture for him.

 

We're getting there..slow and steady wins the race.