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If you wonder if Conceptual Chem is enough as a stand-alone high-school chem course,


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you'll probably be interested in the author's response to that question. This is my first time posting:blush5: I'm including my own question, so that you can understand the context the question was posed in. What he says makes perfect sense to me! Here it goes...

 

 

Hi Midori,

 

Thank you for your interest in Conceptual Chemistry.

 

I should tell you a bit about some of the problems we college professors face when teaching general chemistry:

 

1) Our students have such widely varied experiences in previous chemistry courses. So much so, that we can't assume much. Therefore, we take the attitude that we're starting from scratch. Any insight that students bring with them from previous courses is an added plus. Often, though, we spend time "unteaching". Working with conversion factors is often a hurdle in that regard.

 

2) Many of our students are whizzes at math. They can plug through the questions at the end of the chapter and come through with the correct answers. But they don't understand what those answers mean. We find that these students have done quite well in their high school (even AP) courses. They're accustomed to doing well, which is why they get irate to discover that their old algorithmic methods are no longer working. In college we demand conceptual understanding along with mathematical prowess.

 

3) Then there's the flip side of #2. Many students are strong with the concepts, but they are weak with the math. They too suffer.

 

Conceptual Chemistry is foremost a college chemistry text for the nonscience major. My students are typically seniors who have delayed taking their science requirement to their last semester of college. These are student who are not destined to become future scientists. But they are destined to become the general public, which has an incredible need to understand the workings and discoveries of science.

 

The nature of this curriculum has made it also popular with high schools. The chemistry is NOT watered down. This is a serious college level course amenable to motivated younger students. That said, as per its title, the focus is on the concepts of chemistry. Quantitative problem solving, such as stoichiometry, is certainly included but it's not the main entree.

 

Does Conceptual Chemistry work well for a student who is confident that he or she will be taking college level general chemistry? Yes. But only if the student is doing well with his or her math courses. The mathematics of general chemistry really aren't that complicated. What's really important are the analytical thinking skills that math helps to nurture. The students who are most adequately prepared for college general chemistry are the ones with a strong handle on the concepts of chemistry alongside strong analytical thinking skills. Keep in mind #1 from above.

 

I disagree with the idea that Conceptual Chemistry needs to be followed up with a more rigorous math-intensive high school chemistry course. I agree, however, that it must be supplemented with math-intensive math courses. Keep in mind #3 from above. Ultimately, it depends on the student. Some will do well in college Gen Chem with very little background in either the concepts or the math.

 

What is most important is that the student be excited about the chemistry. This is particularly true for the high school student who is just beginning to decide career paths. Too much too soon could turn some students off. For others, though, they may be chomping at the bit. I recommend your child take a look at a "math intensive" chemistry book along side Conceptual Chemistry, 4e. If they happen to pick CC4e, make sure that they've also read this email.

 

Will I end up with a Problem Solving book like that of Conceptual Physics? Not in the immediate future. But thank you for suggesting it.

 

I should mention that CC4e is now being fitted with my publisher's Mastering Chemistry tutorial/assessment program, which I know will be very attractive to homeschoolers. It will be ready by this summer. You should check out the following link: MasteringChemistry.com

 

I hope you find this information helpful. You are welcome to post this reply to the homeschool forums. I would very much appreciate that.

 

Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

 

Good chemistry to you,

 

John

 

 

On Mar 7, 2011, at 11:33 AM, TM Stock wrote:

 

> Dear Dr. Suchocki,

>

> We are homeschoolers and I’d like to use “Conceptual Chemistry†for our children’s high school years, but I have a few questions.

>>

> 1. It seems that among homeschooling community “Conceptual Chemistry†is considered as a pre-chem course, which needs to be followed up by a more rigorous math-intensive chemistry sometime during the high school. In other words, they think “Conceptual Chemistry†cannot constitute a full high-school chemistry course. Is this true? Our children want to pursue science majors in universities. Would “Conceptual Chemistry†prepare them on its own? We are not interested in AP course – my question pertains to “Conceptual Chemistry†as the only chemistry course the future science majors take during their high-school years.

>

> > 2. If “Conceptual Chemistry†indeed needs to be supplemented with problem-solving exercises for future science majors, is there any plan to publish its math component in the same vein as “Conceptual Physicsâ€â€™s new Problem Solving book? I think this is a fabulous idea – people using Conceptual series can just add problem solving component as needed, rather than going through a whole new book later to cover the math part.

>

> > I’d really appreciate it if you could answer these questions. And if need be, may I quote your answer on the homeschool forums?

>>

> Regards,

>>

> Midori

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My oldest daughter used the 1st edition of Conceptual Chemistry years ago, as soon as it was published. She loved it so much that chemistry became her favorite subject! She went on to college as a pre med major, and did very well in her science classes there. She's now getting ready to graduate from med school. I would say the couse is quite adequate!

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  • 6 months later...
OLD THREAD ALERT

 

Just wanted to bump this up, to see what more people think about this. I am curious, because Conceptual Chemistry and Conceptual Physics are on my radar for the future.

 

[Copied and pasted from the OP:]

Does Conceptual Chemistry work well for a student who is confident that he or she will be taking college level general chemistry? Yes. But only if the student is doing well with his or her math courses. The mathematics of general chemistry really aren't that complicated. What's really important are the analytical thinking skills that math helps to nurture. The students who are most adequately prepared for college general chemistry are the ones with a strong handle on the concepts of chemistry alongside strong analytical thinking skills.

 

and this....

 

Many of our students are whizzes at math. They can plug through the questions at the end of the chapter and come through with the correct answers. But they don't understand what those answers mean. We find that these students have done quite well in their high school (even AP) courses. They're accustomed to doing well, which is why they get irate to discover that their old algorithmic methods are no longer working. In college we demand conceptual understanding along with mathematical prowess. [end of quote]

 

Hello Colleen :). A couple of things from the OP jumped out at me based on what my son has seen in college General Chemistry. He met people in his classes who were interested in chemistry but who had not fully mastered the math. Those who were willing to work on improving math skills did fairly well after a rough start because the instructor designed his grading structure with this in mind. Other instructors may not be so forgiving, though, so I would not necessarily count on being granted a grace period.

 

The students who were trying to rely solely on the algorithms taught in high school mostly either dropped out or failed the course. There was a group of disgruntled students from the second category who recruited other students and complained to the dean about the instructor. All that came of that was a rash of complaint posts at Rate My Prof countered by several pithily worded positive ratings...;) My take is that both math and conceptual skills are important but remediation of conceptual deficits seems to be more difficult. From what I've learned from other sources my son's observations were fairly typical.

 

The trickiest thing, IME, is motivating the student who is not interested in mathematics for its own sake to work diligently during high school. If you are able to foster an interest in math that's all to the good and your path will be easier for it. And, from what I hear about the affection people have for the Dolciani texts you're probably on the right track for that.

 

For a student who's interested in science, but not fully persuaded about doing the necessary work in math, I've found the best way to deal with that is outsourcing. Sometimes high school students are better prepared to hear about these things from someone other than mom. ;)

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  • 2 years later...

OLD THREAD ALERT

 

Just wanted to bump this up, to see what more people think about this. I am curious, because Conceptual Chemistry and Conceptual Physics are on my radar for the future.

If it helps...CC was something I was pretty set on since my rising 10th grader didn't have a career choice in mind. :) I figured...if he likes chemistry now, then maybe he will take a more advanced course later. 

BUT...after reviewing some things and giving this some thought, I decided that I would rather expose him to "more" chemistry now to see if it "takes". 

 

If he hates it with a passion, then we'll know that he will not likely be a STEM major. :)

If, however, he really gravitates to it (and I think he will), he will at least have the exposure to a solid program from which he can build his later studies whether he is a STEM student or not.

 

I plan to keep CC bookmarked on my internet so that if we have trouble with a concept, we can use it as a tool to help us out. 

Best wishes to you as you plan your years ahead as well. :)

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