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What's your take on this homeschool bookstore's policy (non-cc and cc content)


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Yes, I am a Christian but I for the most part, I don't choose my curriculum by whether it is religious or not, but whether it meets my needs.

 

While I would think there are some non-Christians who would go to the lengths of never choosing any books that are "Christian". I would think that is a minority. In Florida, I attended a inclusive group for a number of different activities. These ladies wouldn't choose maybe a YE book for science but they also weren't anti-Christian and would consider using various books for their children. I am specifically thinking about someone who had Pathway readers and another who had Voyages in English I think. Things like math often make no difference whether it is Christian or not. For some of them, low price was a major consideration.

 

For me, if both stores took curriculum to be sold, I would patronize the further away one since I wouldn't want to waste my time figuring out whether novel x is too Christian or not when I was going to sell it.

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I agree with pp that I can't think of enough secular homeschool materials for an entire store. If they are selling public school materials, too, like Evan-Moor or such, they will be competing with any other "teacher stores" and Barnes&Noble, etc.

 

I think it is so hard to make a go of a homeschool store to begin with it would be difficult to then cut out greater than half of your potential customers. If the other store wasn't also including secular materials, they might be okay, but as long as I can go to one store to see both and I'm a Christian, why would I go to their store?

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I agree with pp that I can't think of enough secular homeschool materials for an entire store. If they are selling public school materials, too, like Evan-Moor or such, they will be competing with any other "teacher stores" and Barnes&Noble, etc.

 

I think it is so hard to make a go of a homeschool store to begin with it would be difficult to then cut out greater than half of your potential customers. If the other store wasn't also including secular materials, they might be okay, but as long as I can go to one store to see both and I'm a Christian, why would I go to their store?

 

There is a *lot* more out there than you realize.

 

I've been HSing for... 7 years and haven't touched a religious text (except for a theology course) yet. I've even been to huge curricula fairs that had NO religious curricula. HUGE. In convention centers.

 

Just because it isn't on a major homeschool chat board doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

 

asta

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I agree with pp that I can't think of enough secular homeschool materials for an entire store. If they are selling public school materials, too, like Evan-Moor or such, they will be competing with any other "teacher stores" and Barnes&Noble, etc.

 

I would love a store to compete with the local teacher store. *Especially* if they repackaged items/sold them individually. The local teacher store is almost completely useless to me because I never need 25 thermometers or 15 unit ten sets.

 

I do agree that it seems silly to cut out a large portion of your market, but (like a pp) I also wonder if the store has been misquoted, since this is second-hand information.

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When I first started teaching religious education classes at my first Unitarian Universalist church, I had no teaching experience at all. Back then (almost 25 years ago - eek!), I felt strongly that UU kids weren't being taught anything of substance, and I was on a one-woman mission to change the way we taught RE.

 

I determined that I wanted my classes to cover some basics of Judeo-Christian faiths. But I knew I needed help, because I had no clue how to teach. And, at that time, there were no UU curricula for RE that did that well (or so I thought at the moment). So, I began visiting Christian and Jewish bookstores in search of materials. I bought coloring books and story books and all sorts of little things and used bits and pieces of them to write my own lessons.

 

And it worked just fine. But it left me with such a longing, wistful feeling. I remember walking into the first of those stores and just stopping dead in my tracks, wanting to cry, almost, feeling the hopelessness of ever finding a store like that one that was built "just for me."

 

Over the years, as I began homeschooling and continued teaching RE, I've had that experience over and over. (I feel the need to clarify: It isn't the specific faith about which I feel wistful, just the merchandise tailored to people who believe in it.)

 

Certainly, I've felt this way in homeschooling communities -- even this one -- many times, too. And the few times I've given in and bought religious curricula just because it's the best I can find at the moment, I've felt a twinge of that same sadness and "left-out-ness."

 

So, I can absolutely see (almost feel) the lure of a store with purely secular materials. The sense of relief . . .

 

It would be lovely.

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There is a *lot* more out there than you realize.

 

I've been HSing for... 7 years and haven't touched a religious text (except for a theology course) yet. I've even been to huge curricula fairs that had NO religious curricula. HUGE. In convention centers.

 

Just because it isn't on a major homeschool chat board doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

 

asta

 

Could you post a link? Pretty please!

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If they go into materials sold for traditional schools or normally marketed towards traditional schools, but in HS sized-sets, there's a TON of secular stuff out there. I can think of a lot of music ed materials that I've never seen in any homeschool catalog that would work well-but parents don't know about them because they don't market to homeschoolers, and in most cases, it would take only repackaging in appropriate quantities to make them work.

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A friend just told me that the new, very convenient one will not accept anything that is Christian in nature for consignment and does not sell any curriculum that is Christian in nature.

 

What is your take on this? (And if you don't mind identifying whether you are looking at that from a Christian point of view or a nonChristian point of view, I'd be interested in seeing the extent to which that affects (or doesn't affect) the take on it. )

 

Well I have to say she will have a very very hard time staying afloat in this business if she is limiting her scope to secular materials. I do not use exclusivley Christian or secular....I use mixed but I will have a hard time going to her store if she doesn't offer both spectrums. I am looking at this from an ecomonical standpoint. She will not survive. Just my opinion so no tomatoes please. :D

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A new homeschool bookstore opened up in our area. Yea!

 

The next closest one is 45 minutes away. That one sells both new and consigned curricula, books, etc. It also sells a wide range of new homeschool materials from Singapore to Abeka to Story of the World to AAS etc. I've seen everything from soup to nuts in their consignment section.

 

A friend just told me that the new, very convenient one will not accept anything that is Christian in nature for consignment and does not sell any curriculum that is Christian in nature.

 

What is your take on this? (And if you don't mind identifying whether you are looking at that from a Christian point of view or a nonChristian point of view, I'd be interested in seeing the extent to which that affects (or doesn't affect) the take on it. )

 

My initial reaction was "awesome- a homeschool store". :)

 

I think business wise it might be tricky for them, but I absolutely respect their desire to live according to their beliefs.

 

 

I'm a Christian- very much so. :)

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I am Christian. They can choose to sell what they want, but I can tell you as other PPs have said...the business won't last. Around here, I think about 90% of the homeschoolers are Christian and use Christian material. Foolish business practice. I would feel the same way, btw, if a particular homeschool business refused to sell secular material or Muslim material or whatever.

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Athiest here. I think this store is cutting its nose of to spite its face. I can't find curriculum that I like for some subjects that isn't Christian based. Also, my kids need to learn about all faiths, especially the predominant one in our country, to be able to traverse their environment and understand literary context.

I would pack a lunch and drive the extra time.

Oh, and can I say that I'm just a bit jealous that you have 2 stores for homeschool curriculum relatively close by? I have none.

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A new homeschool bookstore opened up in our area. Yea!

 

The next closest one is 45 minutes away. That one sells both new and consigned curricula, books, etc. It also sells a wide range of new homeschool materials from Singapore to Abeka to Story of the World to AAS etc. I've seen everything from soup to nuts in their consignment section.

 

A friend just told me that the new, very convenient one will not accept anything that is Christian in nature for consignment and does not sell any curriculum that is Christian in nature.

 

What is your take on this? (And if you don't mind identifying whether you are looking at that from a Christian point of view or a nonChristian point of view, I'd be interested in seeing the extent to which that affects (or doesn't affect) the take on it. )

I understand their stance. Some people are very against interfaith and would not feel comfortable shopping there if they offered materials from Christian publishers. I used to be that way.

 

Even now I would probably be more likely to shop there because Christian materials are so easy to come by. It is nice that they have a specialty. kwim?

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Sounds to me like they are catering to non-Christian/secular hsing customers so I'd guess they don't care if they offend any potential Christian customers. I mean I doubt they'd mind having a customer who's Christian, but if there is a potential customer who is also Christian who would be offended by their policy (and possible make a stink about it) then I'd assume that's exactly the type of customer they wish to avoid.

I can see the need for a store for homeschoolers that's not packed full of Christian materials- it would really save a lot of people a lot of time in browsing if they know upfront that none of the offerings are based on a 'worldview' with which they do not agree. Much the same as a Christian bookstore catering specifically to Christians.

:iagree:I should have read before responding. Ditto and said better than I.

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I've put some decent research into the idea, because I do hope to have a secular homeschool store one day. Yes, it's a real niche market. No, I don't imagine I'd ever get rich that way. Filling that niche (so long as I don't go *completely* broke in the process) would be a priceless reward in and of itself, to me.

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I have no problem with what a business decides to sell or not to sell. When I first started homeschooling, I only used secular and would have shopped at such a place.
:iagree:

 

Like with the devil? :cheers2:

 

 

j/k :lol:

:lol::lol:I thought it was funny and I am the fuddy duddy who walked out on my cousin due to his including Jesus in his jokes.

 

I think it would be lovely to have an exclusively secular homeschool store. There are so many resources for Christian hsing already, and for the secular hsers in the area, I'm sure it will be nice to not have to hunt through a hundred copies of Abeka books to find something they like.
:iagree:I would be ecstatic about this store if it were here. I would try to buy something just to support them.

 

 

There are both inclusive homeschool support groups and exclusive ones. One of the secular groups meets at a church.

I hate that! I want a secular group that does not meet at a church. I am a Jehovah's Witness. They are very against interfaith. I don't want my kids confused by going to a church. Why does no one else get that?

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Is this store not carrying new Abeka etc or won't consign it? I wasn't sure that ABeka was carried by anyone but their own catalog. (I don't think, for example, that rainbow resource carries it.) And I can also see how matching books would be a headache the way that ABeka changes editions. Were I running a used store, I'd probably only accept books in sets that covered a group of books with the teacher guide. And since the workbooks are consumable, you probably wouldn't get many of those.

They won't consign it. It's not a religious issue; it's a space and competition issue. The other store in our area has a whole section (nearly a whole wall) of used BJU, Abeka, etc... all the curriculum-in-a-box materials, and the tiny little new store really couldn't devote anywhere near that amount of space to that. I think their reasoning is if someone is doing a whole curriculum, a slightly shorter drive once a year isn't going to be that tempting. Knowing that the bigger store is absolutely going to have multiple complete sets of every year's books where the smaller store just can't will almost certainly keep customers going to the bigger store... So the smaller store really doesn't have a chance in that line anyway - it would be ridiculous to try.

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:iagree:

 

:lol::lol:I thought it was funny and I am the fuddy duddy who walked out on my cousin due to his including Jesus in his jokes.

 

:iagree:I would be ecstatic about this store if it were here. I would try to buy something just to support them.

 

 

I hate that! I want a secular group that does not meet at a church. I am a Jehovah's Witness. They are very against interfaith. I don't want my kids confused by going to a church. Why does no one else get that?

 

 

I belong to a secular HS group the meets at one church for one activity and a second for another. These spaces meet our needs (large room, kitchen access, food / snacking allowed, noise won't bother others at the times we are there). We looked into meeting rooms at libraries and community centers too but neither met all of our requirements and the cost was prohibitive. We don't actually meet IN the church though - just the large multipurpose rooms. Is that objectionable too?

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I belong to a secular HS group the meets at one church for one activity and a second for another. These spaces meet our needs (large room, kitchen access, food / snacking allowed, noise won't bother others at the times we are there). We looked into meeting rooms at libraries and community centers too but neither met all of our requirements and the cost was prohibitive. We don't actually meet IN the church though - just the large multipurpose rooms. Is that objectionable too?
Yes it is still objectionable because I have others to answer to. I am more relaxed about it, but I can picture my kids telling my mom that we went to church or something and then she would jump on my case. I tried to join a group but we could only meet with them at the park, and I had a two year old, so I had to chase him instead of talking to any of the moms. They told me the same thing about the church. I talked to DH about it and he said "No way". He is less relaxed about the interfaith thing than me.:blush: I have him pretty freaked out by looking into Orthodoxy. Edited by Lovedtodeath
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Sounds kind of goofy to me, but I certainly see the point of not having to weed through a pile of stuff to find non-Christian materials.

 

I'd love to find out how they fare...if you are interested in giving an update in a couple of months.

 

I'd still shop there, myself, at least once. :)

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Yes it is still objectionable because I have others to answer to. I am more relaxed about it, but I can picture my kids telling my mom that we went to church or something and then she would jump on my case. I tried to join a group but we could only meet with them at the park, and I had a two year old, so I had to chase him instead of talking to any of the moms. They told me the same thing about the church. I talked to DH about it and he said "No way". He is less relaxed about the interfaith thing than me.:blush: I have him pretty freaked out by looking into Orthodoxy.

 

Can you have a secular group meet at a Kingdom Hall?

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Can you have a secular group meet at a Kingdom Hall?

No Kingdom Halls are only used for religious meetings. No other gatherings.

 

I think that is why people who have always been Jehovah's Witnesses don't understand that Churches are different and can function as community centers (like when they host Angel Food Ministries, for example).

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No Kingdom Halls are only used for religious meetings. No other gatherings.

 

I think that is why people who have always been Jehovah's Witnesses don't understand that Churches are different and can function as community centers (like when they host Angel Food Ministries, for example).

 

Exactly. The one place we meet has a whole community program that is run and funded by people who are not members of the church. The other place is in a building on a church's property and regularly hosts community events that are not affiliated with the church as well.

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What is your take on this?

 

Their right to choose to do so. There's a huge flood of Christian materials on the market. Going to Half-Price Books for used curricula is often a bust because most of what they sell is Christian-based, which doesn't work for me. It sure would be nice to shop somewhere where I know that I could potentially use everything they sell.

 

Tara

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I'd love to see a secular-only homeschool store. There are more than enough stores that cater to the religious homeschoolers, but very few for the growing population of secular homeschoolers. I don't see this store as being any different from a Christian bookstore, other that the fact that it's specific to homeschooling. I'm pretty sure there are certain materials that a Christian bookstore would refuse to carry.

 

To be honest, I get tired of wading through religious materials to find secular ones. It's why I don't go to any of the large used curriculum sales locally -- most are put on by religious groups, and most of the materials for sale are from Christian homeschool publishers.

 

That said, the one local homeschool store we had closed down several years ago. They started out catering only to homeschoolers, with both Christian and secular materials. Then they expanded to classroom materials in the hope of drawing in business from teachers. It didn't matter who they targeted. They just didn't get enough business to stay open.

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No Kingdom Halls are only used for religious meetings. No other gatherings.

 

I think that is why people who have always been Jehovah's Witnesses don't understand that Churches are different and can function as community centers (like when they host Angel Food Ministries, for example).

 

Ah, that makes sense. The church we attend meets at an elementary school. :)

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The closest homeschool store to me is Christian. The only secular materials they sell that are NEW, that I'm aware of, is Evan-Moor which they consider supplemental to a full Christian LA program, and Handwriting Without Tears. They do offer a used section and there are secular materials in there, but they are piece-meal. I found random secular science textbooks, but nothing like I would actually be able to use with my children. I'm never comfortable using a textbook without a teacher's manual. But that's just me.

 

Still, I shopped there a great deal. The owners are extremely helpful with advice that I have found to be very valuable. But I'll admit that sometimes I bought the Christian materials out of a sense of obligation for their advice, and then I sold them without using them. I figured it wasn't really a loss of money but that I was paying for the advice. They are a lovely family, indeed.

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I wonder how they will make it financially, without the Christian buyers, sellers, and curricula!
Some Christian homeschoolers use secular materials. Its not like there's a sign on the door saying "No Christians Allowed!"
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I'm still boggling at the idea of a homeschooling store in the first place.

 

But this:

 

I have a friend who sells second-hand books and mediates in the process sometimes. He says that while, if somebody explicitly asks for a specific work that he can get him by ordering from other sources, he will do so if he feels he is the only convenient way for the customer to get tit, but he will never openly offer certain types of works to people. His list of "I don't offer" works is quite interesting :tongue_smilie:, containing many diverse things, from New Testament to Dada, which he considers morally or aesthetically problematic. He just doesn't want to promote them, ergo, he doesn't offer them. Those who seek them will still find them, but elsewhere.

 

cracked me up The "aesthetically problematic" in particular. No democracy of tastes here!!

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I'm not Christian, but I think refusing to take any Christian materials on consignment is a stupid business decision.

 

I can definitely see limiting the amount of Christian materials so that the store doesn't become overwhelmingly Christian (because a huge percentage of what's out there is Christian), but I think refusing to take any Christian materials at all is a bad decision.

 

ETA:

Although I think it's a stupid business decision, I would go out of my way to buy things at a secular-only store.

Edited by AngieW in Texas
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cracked me up The "aesthetically problematic" in particular. No democracy of tastes here!!

While we heavily disagree when it comes to the New Testament, I actually agree with him when it comes to Dada and admire his guts there. :leaving:

 

You know how many people who deal with, say, video materials, refuse to engage in buying, selling or mediating when it comes to pornography or even some "grey zones" of materials which, while not explicit pornography, they still wish to stay away from? Well, this guy claims that Dada is a type of "intellectual pornography" with "damaging moral effects" and he doesn't want that on his shelves, nor he wants to assume the responsibility for offering that to anyone. :lol:

An explicit request is another thing, though. Then he might weigh it and decide to get a copy for you. He does not have any written "standard" of what he buys and sells, though, he will just refuse to buy it from anyone and thus offer further, so you won't even be aware of "censorship" unless you pay really, really close attention to what exactly is missing from his collection and start realizing that in some cases it might not be a coincidence after all.

Edited by Ester Maria
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A new homeschool bookstore opened up in our area. Yea!

 

The next closest one is 45 minutes away. That one sells both new and consigned curricula, books, etc. It also sells a wide range of new homeschool materials from Singapore to Abeka to Story of the World to AAS etc. I've seen everything from soup to nuts in their consignment section.

 

A friend just told me that the new, very convenient one will not accept anything that is Christian in nature for consignment and does not sell any curriculum that is Christian in nature.

 

What is your take on this? (And if you don't mind identifying whether you are looking at that from a Christian point of view or a nonChristian point of view, I'd be interested in seeing the extent to which that affects (or doesn't affect) the take on it. )

 

From a business standpoint, it isn't very wise. The facts are that the majority of homeschoolers use christian materials. That is changing, but I see no reason to alienate a huge segment of your market.

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I don't really find it surprising and it doesn't really bother me. They can carry what they want. The offerings for Christian books in general are anemic as most bookstores, libraries, etc. I don't live in the Bible belt though. I rarely expect to find Christian materials (other than fluffy Christian Amish fiction and contemplative spirituality type books) in our big box bookstores, local bookstores, used bookstores, or library.

 

Which explains why my book budget is so large.

 

We have NO store in this town that carries ANY homeschooling materials.

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I don't live in the Bible belt though. I rarely expect to find Christian materials (other than fluffy Christian Amish fiction and contemplative spirituality type books) in our big box bookstores, local bookstores, used bookstores, or library.

 

 

 

I do live in the bible belt, and our big box bookstores carry plenty of Christian materials. Almost the entire spirituality sections are filled with Christian books. And there are several rows of Christian fiction. Our library is the same. I imagine it does depend on where you live, and what's in demand locally, even with big box stores.

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I don't really find it surprising and it doesn't really bother me. They can carry what they want. The offerings for Christian books in general are anemic as most bookstores, libraries, etc. I don't live in the Bible belt though. I rarely expect to find Christian materials (other than fluffy Christian Amish fiction and contemplative spirituality type books) in our big box bookstores, local bookstores, used bookstores, or library.

 

Which explains why my book budget is so large.

 

We have NO store in this town that carries ANY homeschooling materials.

Same here, and there are none in the surrounding towns. I live in an area with many colleges and universities. There are books stores everywhere, but none that sell Christian books. I am Christian, and I order homeschool materials, and other books on-line.

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Is this in California? I was just thinking that if it is, then it's catering to the charter school folks, who are not, by law, supposed to use any Christian materials (even though many do; I'm just sayin'...).

People using charters are allowed to use whatever they want - they just can't use charter funds to pay for religious material.

 

Some charters only allow buying from approved vendors, and it's possible that they have to be totally secular in order to qualify as an approved vendor.

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People using charters are allowed to use whatever they want - they just can't use charter funds to pay for religious material.

 

Some charters only allow buying from approved vendors, and it's possible that they have to be totally secular in order to qualify as an approved vendor.

This is hotly debated. :glare: But the California Constitution says it isn't ok:

 

Article IX, Section 8, of the California Constitution addresses religious instruction within public schools. The wording is straightforward and is available at any public library. A review of this section may be helpful:

 

Ă¢â‚¬Å“No public money shall ever be appropriated for the support of any sectarian or denominational schoolĂ¢â‚¬Â¦Ă¢â‚¬ Government funding cannot be used to support a religious school.

 

Ă¢â‚¬Å“Ă¢â‚¬Â¦or any school not under the exclusive control of the officers of the public schoolĂ¢â‚¬Â¦Ă¢â‚¬ A charter school may delegate responsibility for childrenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s education to the parents, but it cannot by relinquish final authority because the California Constitution requires its officers to have Ă¢â‚¬Å“exclusive control.Ă¢â‚¬

 

Ă¢â‚¬Â¦nor shall any sectarian or denomination doctrine be taughtĂ¢â‚¬Â¦Ă¢â‚¬ Whether the parents are considered teachers, aides, volunteers, or some other title, the public school cannot allow them to teach religious doctrine within the program.

 

Ă¢â‚¬Å“Ă¢â‚¬Â¦or instruction thereon be permittedĂ¢â‚¬Â¦Ă¢â‚¬ This is a critical phrase. A school administrator or staff member cannot permit a volunteer or even a student to take over the class for even five minutes to teach BibleĂ¢â‚¬â€œbased doctrine. Not only is it illegal for a public school teacher to teach religious doctrine, but it is also illegal for a public school administrator to permit religious instruction to be received by a pupil during the time he is in the school or program.

 

Ă¢â‚¬Å“Ă¢â‚¬Â¦directly or indirectlyĂ¢â‚¬Â¦Ă¢â‚¬ This should clear up any possible misunderstanding of the previous wording by those who would allow a teacher to indirectly permit religious training.

 

Ă¢â‚¬Å“Ă¢â‚¬Â¦in any of the common schools of the state.Ă¢â‚¬ Current law [EC §47612(b)] makes it crystal clear that Article IX, Section 8 of the California Constitution includes charter schools. The legal term Ă¢â‚¬Å“common schoolsĂ¢â‚¬ as used in the California Constitution is synonymous with the term Ă¢â‚¬Å“public schoolsĂ¢â‚¬ as used in the California Education Code. AB 544 (passed into law in 1998) clarifies this further for laymen who have questions about this issue. It adds EC §47615(a)(1) and (2), which state, Ă¢â‚¬Å“charter schools are part of the Public School System, as defined in Article IX of the California Constitution. Charter schools are under the jurisdiction of the Public School System and the exclusive control of the officers of the public schools, as provided in this part.Ă¢â‚¬

 

Charter schools are not even allowed to count the time spent on non-religious subjects of religious materials are used to teach them, regardless of who paid for the materials.

 

I know, I know...y'all disagree with me, I'm in the minority here, and I'm ok with that. But I had to put it out there for the few folks who might read it and think more about it. Feel free to totally disregard this post. Throwing tomatoes isnt' necessary, though. Thanks. :)

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Is it a very small store?

 

I can't think of enough secular materials to fill up the shelves of a whole store. Maybe a kiosk.

 

That's sort of sad.

 

Would one be equally baffled by a store that only sold from Christian publishers? I have received homeschool curriculum catalogs filled mostly with curriculum of that sort with the exception of a few books where I doubt even the most orthodox religious Christian would think twice about (spelling and math come to mind). Otherwise, everything else is Christian. I find THAT baffling.

 

:iagree:

 

 

I think it would be lovely to have an exclusively secular homeschool store.

 

Me, too.

 

Actually, where I used to live, there was a school supplies store, and while they did carry a some very limited Christian material, the majority of what they sold was secular. They always did really well, but then I lived in an area where there were a LOT of homeschoolers.

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I would LOVE to be able to go to a store and not have to rifle through book after book of cc, looking for one with nc content. If they can stock a whole store....wow!

Why is it okay for a store to sell only cc, but not one that sells only nc content?

 

All the stores we have here that are brick n mortor stores sell both secular and Christian....It would be bad business either way. So I am not picking on this store because it is refusing to sell or accept anything Christian. I just think it will hurt their business because they are limiting their consumer base.

 

I use both secular and Christian so I love to see a store that serves both. :D

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