Aubrey Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 You all feel free to just put me on ignore. I think I see the connection between burial vs cremation & suicide & maybe even birth control. Part of my struggle w/ the forgiveness of suicide issue is the idea that sin resides in our hearts more than merely our actions: if you have hate in your heart, you have committed murder. What about when we're so aggravated w/ ourselves that we do things that are detrimental? A glass of wine after a hard day is one thing, but drinking specifically because of pain is similar enough to suicide IN ITS HEART STATE, that...that what? I don't know. It's something I've never thought about, but suddenly...drinking w/ a wrong heart, eating chocolate w/ a wrong heart--these are not acceptable alternatives for the sane. The heart state is similar enough to require repentance. I barely drink. Of course I think too much is wrong. Of course I think harming one's body is wrong. For some reason, though, this idea of connecting all of these things under the heading of caring for the body because it belongs to God is revolutionary for me. Beautiful, convicting, holy, & it makes me irrationally mad. :lol: Suddenly, there is morality, moral choices, in everything. That could easily become legalistic & heavy, but...assuming grace...it's also like the presence of God. Like a clean sheet floating down over the bed w/ its fresh scent. Like a head covering, a ring, a reminder of someone you love. Thank you, whoever listens. I don't know why I'm being so difficult & dark today. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsetmom Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Deep thoughts. . .hmmmmm. . .sometimes we need those ruminations and times of soul depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 :grouphug: It's beautiful to glimpse into your soul once in a while. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us. In the last year I've lost people that were once in my life on a regular basis. One committed suicide, one died of a heart condition at a young age, and one died as a homeless man. I've struggled with each of these in a different way. Our bodies are strong and so deeply fragile. It's easier to break a heart than to break an arm. It's easier to medicate your pain than to resolve it completely. If you figure it all out, let me know. I still struggle with a lot of this on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Thank you for sharing your thoughts. :) They give me some food for thought. I think our bodies are both our greatest blessing, and our greatest responsibility that we have in this mortal sphere. We can both praise and do the works of God (allowing Him to use our hands), as well as cause hurt to ourselves and others based on how we wield it. Care for the body most deffinitely involves quiet a bit of morality, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Too deep for m at 11:24 pm, Aubrey ;)...but if eating chocolate is a sin then dear LORD, have mercy on my SOUL! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I think being hard on oneself, being unkind to oneself, is as bad as doing it to another. We are meant to love not only others but ourselves too - all our ourselves. But I don't find the concept of sin constructive or useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Audrey, your questions today made me talk with my husband. We decided that we are really happy that we are Protestants and believe strongly in God's loving gift of grace and also the preservation of the saints. Without these understandings, I think I would be seriously depressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Suddenly, there is morality, moral choices, in everything. I guess it never occurred to me that there wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyBee Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Audrey, your questions today made me talk with my husband. We decided that we are really happy that we are Protestants and believe strongly in God's loving gift of grace and also the preservation of the saints. Without these understandings, I think I would be seriously depressed. Wait--I didn't know Protestants had cornered the market on these. Don't all Christians believe this (at least in the grace department)? :confused: BTW, several Protestants in my acquaintance use this as a license to do whatever they want. You know, "It doesn't matter how much I sin, because I have God's saving grace." I am NOT saying this is true of you, transientChris. Just some of the folks I know. It's always hit me the wrong way. If I'm hijacking too much, feel free to ignore. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freethinkermama Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 To me, this way lies madness. It's said that Martin Luther spent hours in confession as a Catholic monk. He was convinced of all of his sins and the state of his heart and motivations. (And, I think, he perhaps had the right idea, according to Christian beliefs). But taking everything to much to heart, weighing every motivation of every waking moment leaves no time to live. Everything must be contemplated--and everything will be found wanting because of our "sinful natures" It's perhaps one of the underlying reasons I left Christianity. Too much navel-gazing, too little living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I believe it was Paul that said our bodies are God's Temple and should not be particpants in immorality as such. (I'm too lazy to look it up right now.) I'm guessing this was as partly lesson to those who assumed God lived in the temple in Jerusalem, and partly to those who wished to justify immorality. I've often heard this scripture used in discussions of smoking and drinking to excess. If it can be used that way, why not go all the way and use it to avoid sugar, HFCS, artificial sweeteners, soda, Krispy Kreme donuts, etc. Can these things really be called immoral, or just stupid? (Rhetorical question :-) Is stupidity a sin? There is a fine line between doing things because they are moral and doing them because your love for God makes you want to explore ways to live more in tune with his presence. If these become moral issues for one person, should they be moral issues for all people? According to the New Testament there is no longer clean and unclean foods. Does this mean eating a donut is no more sinful than eating an organic salad? Personally I think we sin just as easily while we are eating the salad. When we eat the salad are we worshipping the temple or the one who resides in it? Just some personal thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 You all feel free to just put me on ignore. I think I see the connection between burial vs cremation & suicide & maybe even birth control. Part of my struggle w/ the forgiveness of suicide issue is the idea that sin resides in our hearts more than merely our actions: if you have hate in your heart, you have committed murder. What about when we're so aggravated w/ ourselves that we do things that are detrimental? A glass of wine after a hard day is one thing, but drinking specifically because of pain is similar enough to suicide IN ITS HEART STATE, that...that what? I don't know. It's something I've never thought about, but suddenly...drinking w/ a wrong heart, eating chocolate w/ a wrong heart--these are not acceptable alternatives for the sane. The heart state is similar enough to require repentance. I barely drink. Of course I think too much is wrong. Of course I think harming one's body is wrong. For some reason, though, this idea of connecting all of these things under the heading of caring for the body because it belongs to God is revolutionary for me. Beautiful, convicting, holy, & it makes me irrationally mad. :lol: Suddenly, there is morality, moral choices, in everything. That could easily become legalistic & heavy, but...assuming grace...it's also like the presence of God. Like a clean sheet floating down over the bed w/ its fresh scent. Like a head covering, a ring, a reminder of someone you love. Thank you, whoever listens. I don't know why I'm being so difficult & dark today. :D Well, a couple weeks ago, the sermon was a vivid on about gluttony. I'm still in the midst of unpacking box after box of books. Some are schoolish books that I bought for one reason or another. I kept sitting there, wondering if I was being gluttonous about purchasing school materials that I don't use. I think throughout the Bible there are examples of men and women who fall short in one aspect of their lives or another. Those that we hold up as models realize a shortcoming and strive to fix it. But I was taught long ago that striving didn't necessarily indicate attainment. I figure that I will still be looking at myself in 40 years, seeing flaws and areas where I fall short when measured by my own activities. That is the beauty of grace. Do you ever read this blog (Coversion Diary) ? She has some wonderful musings on faith. Even though there are some things that are unfamiliar to me as a Protestant, I'm looking forward to worshiping with her when we're all gathered together. BTW, her posts about scorpions are not to be missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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