Halo 3 and Mage at Youth Group

[abbeyej]

...He says he has no problem with either game and that they are a great way to bring kids into the youth group....

 

I truly think this view is *so* mislead.

 

I just can't believe there are all that many kids out there who will come to youth group *because* there is Halo (etc). The kids who *only* want to play Halo? They can find that elsewhere.

 

And here's the deal. I'm a fairly conservative mom who does *not* go to church regularly and my kids do not have a church home. Activities like that? Would *absolutely* drive my family *away* from a church, not bring us towards it.

 

Ds has been attending youth group with neighbors for a local church. Last fall there was a lock-in that ds was excited about -- until I received a list of activities and said No Way. Not only did I think one of them was highly inappropriate for the ages (kids from 11-14) and inappropriate for a church activity, I actually found it *immoral* -- and when I brought it up to some other *non*-religious friends, they were equally horrified.

 

Really, should the church been doing stuff with teens and pre-teens that horrifies the self-described heathens?!?

 

Needless to say, ds didn't get to go to the lock-in and I've been extra careful about their other activities since then.

 

I think a lot of youth leaders are under the impression that they have to "compete" with the secular world for kids' attention. Instead of offering something "different" or "better", they just try to make as much noise as other activities.

 

And I think they're alienating a lot of people.

 

----

 

Edited to add:

 

I don't let my child play Halo. Not now. At some point between now and the time he's too old for youth group, I assuredly would allow it if he were interested. But not for several more years. I would probably allow the card game (I'm not familiar with that particular one, but I'd probably consider it basically harmless). BUT even if I allowed my child to play these things, I still wouldn't consider them appropriate, meaningful, or uplifting activities for a church youth group!

 

And I think kids are VERY aware of when they're being manipulated by things like that. They know the difference between a group where relationship and growth are valued and intellectual and spiritual curiosity are nurtured and a group where they're being bribed to come with shallow incentives.

Edited March 5, 2011 by abbeyej

[Alessandra]

if i wouldn't want something in my house, I'd want it even less in a group setting that I wasn't part of. Say we are at home, watching a movie like War Games that has swearing, I can tell dc that swearing is OK if you are under attrack by multiple enemy warheads, otherwise swearing will get all movies with swearing removed from our house. In a group setting, kids may think it's cool to emulate the swearing and make fun of those who don't.

 

Hal would put me off. The card game is not one I know -- I don't mind magic, as in fairy tales or Harry Potter or The Wizard of Oz or Peter Pan, etc. But it seems to me there could be better choices for a church group. Overall, my instinct would be to stay away. What was that about the diapers? Ugh!!

 

Anglican and not remotely close to the conservatism of many hsers.

Edited March 5, 2011 by Alessandra

[FrogMom5]

1. Yes, I'd have a problem with both of those games being played at youth group. Even if you allow one or more at home, they're not appropriate at a church youth group. Besides, there are so many fun, wholesome games to play, they don't need those.

 

2. Roman Catholic

 

3. If talking to the Youth Pastor and then the Pastor doesn't work, pull them out. Hopefully, you can find another youth group.

 

Denise

[Kirch]

1. Yes, I'd have a big problem with both of them. Totally inappropriate, and a completely unacceptable response from the youth pastor, both for his reasoning and for the fact that he blew you off.

 

2. Southern Baptist. And that wouldn't have flown at any SB church I've been a member of (although I'm sure there are some out there where it would).

 

3. If the youth pastor reacted as you described, I'd talk to the pastor and other leaders (elders? deacons?) and really try to pursue change. If no one had a problem with it or didn't like it but was unwilling to do anything about it, I'd probably leave. I wouldn't continue to attend because that kind of response would indicate a lack of shared values/convictions beyond what I'd be comfortable with in a church to which I was trusting my family for spiritual accountability, teaching, and guidance.

[Joanne]

So that you can put my response in perspective, I typically dislike the youth group threads here. I find them to represent restrictive, oppressive youth fellowship and study ideas. I believe it is perfectly ok for teens (and tweens) to hang out together in a semi-structured, supervised environment and not have to get heavy into study, service, etc.

 

1) Would you have a problem with this?

 

Yes.

 

 

2) If willing, will you tell me the denomination of your church and/or your religious beliefs (or lack of said). (Just trying to get some idea of whether particular denominations would be more or less likely to condone this. Especially helpful if faced with the need to start church hunting.)

 

My denominational heart and heritage is Presbyterian (USA). I am currently attending an ultra modern church that is Lutheran (MS). I am not a theological match, but it is where we are supposed to be right now.

 

 

3) If faced with a similar situation, how would you respond?

 

I would find a setting that is more a match for my family. I would also be upset to have been dismissed and patronized as a homeschooler.

[ChemMommy]

1) Would you have a problem with this? YES, to both the card game and halo.

 

2) If willing, will you tell me the denomination of your church and/or your religious beliefs (or lack of said). (Just trying to get some idea of whether particular denominations would be more or less likely to condone this. Especially helpful if faced with the need to start church hunting.) Lutheran-Missouri Synod

 

3) If faced with a similar situation, how would you respond? I would meet with the head pastor and the yp since you've already discussed this with the yp. I might find a second family to attend the meeting. My kids would not be participating with this group under this pastor. He is showing very poor judgment here.

.

 

I'm pretty strict about who mentors my kids and I don't see this yp as being a proper mentor or spiritual leader. I see him as giving in the peer pressure in order to appear to be a "popular" youth pastor.

[The Girls' Mom]

Yes, I would have a big problem with it. Halo has no place at youth group.

 

I'm Baptist.

 

I would talk to the leadership and depending on the response, I might seek another church.

 

We went through something similar at a church a year ago. The games being played were totally inappropriate (a weird game called touching body parts that ended with two girls kissing on the mouth) We spoke to the youth pastor AND the lead pastor, and they were not in the least concerned. We left. Had they made an effort to correct it, then we may not have left. (although I'm VERY glad we did...we ended up at a great church)

[cougarmom4]

Yes, I would have a problem with it.

LDS

I'd go up the chain-of-command and express what is happening and why I'm not happy with it. If things didn't change, I'd probably seek a different youth group and/or church.

 

It seems there are so many things in society these days with the sole purpose of HAVING FUN...

[Gooblink]

We are having a bit of a situation with our church's youth group.

 

The content of the actual service is fine.

 

The problem is that they are playing what several parents feel are inappropriate games before and after.

 

Two months ago the senior pastor acknowledged that the girls putting toilet paper diapers on the boys was inappropriate and that he would call an end to that. At the time though he said he had no problem with another game that was being played; a murder role-playing game.

 

This past Wednesday my husband went to youth group just to check it out. Our daughter will soon be in the Jr High group which is run by the youth pastor so we are trying to familiarize ourselves with it all. He was completely shocked to find teens playing Halo 3 (rated M for Mature 17+) and a Mage card game (fantasy role-playing with magic. Dungeon & Dragonish) AT YOUTH GROUP.

 

When asked the youth pastor completely blew my husband off as being an over-reactive homeschool parent. He says he has no problem with either game and that they are a great way to bring kids into the youth group.

 

Obviously you can see our opinion of the games just in the slant of my writing, but I want to ask all of you...

 

1) Would you have a problem with this?

 

2) If willing, will you tell me the denomination of your church and/or your religious beliefs (or lack of said). (Just trying to get some idea of whether particular denominations would be more or less likely to condone this. Especially helpful if faced with the need to start church hunting.)

 

3) If faced with a similar situation, how would you respond?

 

It would be helpful to discover if we really are the odd balls in this issue or if others would agree.

 

We basically have to decide how far we want to pursue it with the church staff. Do we just bow out gracefully and look for another church, do we continue to attend but not allow our children to participate in youth activities at our church (wow, that would stink for them) or do we continue to voice our concerns to the staff and hope for a change?

 

Let me clarify that I'm not asking whether you'd allow these in your own home. That is your choice. I'm asking whether you'd appreciate them at youth group.

 

1. Yes, we take ratings seriously at home and I don't want our rules undermined by a youth pastor.

2. Just trying to be a Jesus follower.

3. We wouldn't participate in that youth group.

 

I think it's fair for you to address it with your pastor in a special meeting, outside the group night. If the pastor, and presumably other parents, think it's no big deal and won't honor your wishes, then I'd bow out of the youth program as a family. If youth group is important to you or your kids, then find a new church.

 

:grouphug:

Edited March 5, 2011 by Gooblink
clarify response

[Joanne]

I'm going to add that my boys don't play Halo (at least, not often as we don't own it) but they do have similar games, so I am not against the games at all.

 

I'm against them in the setting.

[lisamarie]

Daisy,

 

We are currently going through issues with our yg as well. This is for our 6th grade dd. We have approached the yp with our concerns and are blown off as the overbearing homeschool parents.

 

 

An example of an overbearing HSing parent: The 1st-6th grade kids put on a play that involved singing a song about the 10 Commandments. The group is made up of Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox. The Catholic HSing moms agreed that they were not okay with their kids singing the "Protestant" version of the 10 Commandments, so they rewrote the song to fit the "Catholic" version. That is overbearing and taking things to the extreme.

 

or

 

Requesting that Sunday School be divided by gender because God forbid the little 1st-6th grade kids be in a mixed class. All those raging hormones running amok. Also compliments of several overbearing HSing mothers.

 

Having an issue with a violent, controversial video game and a card game about magic IN A CHURCH is not overbearing in my mind. That is called parenting. I make the judgement calls on controversial things like violence and magic until my children are out of my house. I would be very upset if I found out my kids had been playing these games, or watching them, at a yg event that I was assuming would be faith-filled and wholesome. Even if I found them to be acceptable in my own home. That's not something a yg leader can just decide is okay without parental input.

 

There's no way my children would be attending that group. But then I just asked my DH and he completely disagrees with me. So there you go.

[MamaHappy]

1. Yes, I have a big problem with that.

 

2. non denominational evangelical protestant

 

3. My kids would not attend youth group. I would have serious doubts about the wisdom of the church leadership. I would look for a new church (this is all hypothetical though since my dh is a pastor and would not have any of that in a church he was pastoring).

 

Exactly this.

[Brenda in FL]

We are having a bit of a situation with our church's youth group.

 

The content of the actual service is fine.

 

The problem is that they are playing what several parents feel are inappropriate games before and after.

 

Two months ago the senior pastor acknowledged that the girls putting toilet paper diapers on the boys was inappropriate and that he would call an end to that. At the time though he said he had no problem with another game that was being played; a murder role-playing game.

 

This past Wednesday my husband went to youth group just to check it out. Our daughter will soon be in the Jr High group which is run by the youth pastor so we are trying to familiarize ourselves with it all. He was completely shocked to find teens playing Halo 3 (rated M for Mature 17+) and a Mage card game (fantasy role-playing with magic. Dungeon & Dragonish) AT YOUTH GROUP.

 

When asked the youth pastor completely blew my husband off as being an over-reactive homeschool parent. He says he has no problem with either game and that they are a great way to bring kids into the youth group.

 

Obviously you can see our opinion of the games just in the slant of my writing, but I want to ask all of you...

1) Would you have a problem with this?

 

2) If willing, will you tell me the denomination of your church and/or your religious beliefs (or lack of said). (Just trying to get some idea of whether particular denominations would be more or less likely to condone this. Especially helpful if faced with the need to start church hunting.)

 

3) If faced with a similar situation, how would you respond?

 

It would be helpful to discover if we really are the odd balls in this issue or if others would agree.

 

We basically have to decide how far we want to pursue it with the church staff. Do we just bow out gracefully and look for another church, do we continue to attend but not allow our children to participate in youth activities at our church (wow, that would stink for them) or do we continue to voice our concerns to the staff and hope for a change?

 

Let me clarify that I'm not asking whether you'd allow these in your own home. That is your choice. I'm asking whether you'd appreciate them at youth group.

 

1) Yes, I'd have a problem with this! I hope you aren't an oddball!

 

2)We are of the reformed variety - either Presbyterian (PCA) or a Baptist church that considered themselves to be reformed (we check 9Marks.org when looking for a new church). I would be surprised to find this activity at a PCA or 9marks church without a lot of opposing parents - it's possible though I suppose!

 

3)If I was a member of the church - I would go to the youth pastor first and explain exactly why this was wrong and include scripture to back my reasons and I would go up from there (senior pastor). If nothing was done - I'd leave. If I wasn't a member - I'd express my concern and then leave. I would make more of an effort for change if I was a member.

[Farrar]

It well shocks me that anyone thinks that Halo is appropriate for a youth group. But that's been said already.

 

The only thing I wanted to add is that I think there is a great value in creating bonding activities for kids to help them gel as a group. And I do think that's a purpose of a youth group. It's building fellowship and community, two things that I think enrich kids spiritually. I don't think it's wrong for a youth minister to try to think outside the box to bring kids in and also build their relationships. While it seems odd to some people, I think gaming can do that - both video games and card and role-playing games. I actually once (oh my, I'm about to reveal what a complete geek I really am) GM'ed a game of Mage (the role playing game Magic is based on) for a group of kids at the school where I taught because it's a game that is based on teamwork and because it was a group that needed some social intervention. And it worked amazingly. Obviously, any activities have to line up with a church's values (and in this case, they may not). And obviously some of the things that others have suggested, such as social work and spiritual development, should be key components too, because otherwise, what's the point of it being a church group?

[jewellsmommy]

1. As a parent and youth leader, I think these are poor choices. A mature rated video game is highly inappropriate. There are so many better ways for these youth to spend their time. I don't know anything about the card game, but again, so many other choices for their time.

 

2. We are Southern Baptist.

 

3. If my concerns were dismissed, I would have to go higher up. But even then, I would have a hard time trusting the judgment that leader again in the future. Depending on the outcome, I would not do the youth group and would have to put in some serious prayer as to rather or not we were meant to stay at that church.

[Jilly]

1) Would you have a problem with this?

 

Absolutely. Completely, utterly unacceptable.

 

2) If willing, will you tell me the denomination of your church and/or your religious beliefs (or lack of said). (Just trying to get some idea of whether particular denominations would be more or less likely to condone this. Especially helpful if faced with the need to start church hunting.)

 

Episcopal (liberal)

 

3) If faced with a similar situation, how would you respond?

 

I would pull my kids out of youth group immediately.

 

This exactly.

[texasmama]

1. Yes, I have a big problem with that.

 

2. non denominational evangelical protestant

 

3. My kids would not attend youth group. I would have serious doubts about the wisdom of the church leadership. I would look for a new church (this is all hypothetical though since my dh is a pastor and would not have any of that in a church he was pastoring).

 

This. (Except my dh is not a pastor. lol)

Edited March 5, 2011 by texasmama

[Ibbygirl]

1. Yes, I'd have a problem with it too.

 

2. Non-denominational Evangelical Protestant

 

3. I would try to talk to the youth pastor about it, but I wouldn't let my kids attend that youth group if that was how things were run.

[LittleIzumi]

Video game & TP diapers, not okay by me. Game, fine.

 

LDS :D

 

I would talk to the youth leaders & then (since that didn't resolve anything) the congregation leader. For me that would be my bishop.

[RenayofRohan]

1. I would absolutely have a problem with the M-rated video game and the card game at youth group.

 

2. Foursquare/AG background. Right now attending a large evangelical non-denominational church.

 

3.

I probably would not just bow out gracefully (but you'd probably already guessed that). I might tell my kids that we considered them adult enough to grow as fellow believers, but that we also judged the youth activities to not be glorifying to God. We would either skip or find a different church. I would definitely have a conversation with the youth staff along with some other senior members of the church leadership (pastors or elders) to explain our concerns and why we were not doing youth group or why we were looking for a new church. I think that if you consider the church to be fellow believers, then you do owe them making your concerns very clear. They can choose to agree or not. But I don't think you do a service to just fade away.

 

:iagree: I would feel compelled to discuss this situation with the youth pastor and the senior pastor. Considering the youth pastor's pattern of immaturity and an utter lack of judgement, I would not want him mentoring my kids.

[TechWife]

Never mind.

Edited March 11, 2011 by TechWife

[amey311]

I'm agnostic, but was raised in the United Methodist church. I've been trying to remember what we did at youth group nights and I'm blanking right now. My brother might have a better memory, so I'll ask him tomorrow.

 

That said, I would have a problem with First Person Shooter games being played at a church youth event. That might be the pinko in me (who's anti FPS games for my kids). I know there are kids on Thing 1's hockey team (he's 10) who got Call of Duty for Christmas. I don't know if those parents would care, or if they would care about those things are happening on "church" time. I have no problem with Magic cards, D&D, magic in general, etc.

 

I might relax my standards more when my kids are older, but "high school" is generally 14-18. Not that my kids are ever going to be that old ( ;) ), but I'd like to hope we could hold out on those things until he's closer to driving age. He's happy with hockey and driving games right now, thankfully.

 

So, I guess it would depend on how "youth group" is being presented. If it's just meant to be teenagers getting together (you could take this same "event" and drop it at the library, or a coffee shop, or a community center room), then I might not care that they're playing games. If, however, the whole point of youth group AT CHURCH is to spread the word of God and to supplement the Sunday church experience, then yeah - it's a problem. There is no way that playing Halo is getting you closer to Jesus.