Help me gently confront my neighbor.

[teamturner]

Last week, the public school kids were off for President's Day. My girls (ages 9 and 4.5) wanted to play with the neighbor girls (ages 9 and 5) and my dh and I were taking one of my ds 11 to his martial arts belt test. The test was going to be at least 2 hours long, so I decided to let the girls stay with the neighbors and they were going to see a movie.

 

I found out later that night that on the way to the movies, the mom stopped by the chiropractor for an adjustment. I see the same chiropractor and usually you can be in and out in about 15 minutes. The mom admitted that it did take quite a bit longer than usual so they had to wait for the later movie.

 

My ds's belt test ended up taking over 3.5 hours so my girls didn't get home until later, which was fine. I later found out after talking with my girls that the mom left all of the girls (both hers and mine) in the car while she was in the chiropractor's office. :001_huh: Not Okay! I assumed when she mentioned it, that she took them into the office with her. The office does have windows to the parking lot, but once you are checked in, you are moved to an area where you cannot see the parking lot. I think this may be illegal, but I'm not sure.

 

We often watch each others kids, but I have known her to make parenting choices that I would not make, such as leaving her girls home alone when they don't even know the mom's cell phone number. Plus I think they are too young to be left alone, even for a quick trip to the store.

 

Anyways, how can I gently approach this issue with her without offending her? I was content to wait until the next time she might be driving my kids (sometimes we carpool for swimming in the summer) and approach it then, but the more I think about it, I think I need to talk to her now. If I let her know that I'd rather she not do leave my children alone in a car, I do trust her to abide by my request. I consider her a friend and our kids play together a lot.

 

Suggestions?

[Journey]

I'm not sure I would say anything right now. I would just stop having her watch my kids and when she asks why just say tell her then. By then you won't be as upset and you will be able to handle it much better. I'm not saying you are going to haul off and smack her if you did it now but I think it would be better to wait.

[jenn-]

I would look up the laws in your state (just to make sure they back you up) and then approach her. If indeed it is illegal in your state, she needs to know she can get in big trouble for it. My MIL had a friend that had a nightmare from CPS because she ran into the gas station to pay for coffee leaving her then 8 yo DD and younger brother in the car. You can bring it up gently by mentioning your DD said something about being left in the car. After that you make sure the kids know not to be left in the car. When the mom starts getting out they follow.

[Julie in Austin]

If it were me, I would not approach her, I just would not, in the future, allow her to watch my kids. Leaving a 4.5 yo in a car and/or leaving a 4.5 yo at home are not OK in my book, and I would not expect/trust her to change her behavior for me.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would consider it leaving two 9 year olds to babysit for what she thought was going to be 15 minutes. It wouldn't bother me. But things backfired on her and of course it went longer. I would just say, "In the future, can you bring the girls in with you if you have to stop and do an errand?" I would certainly be happy to comply with that request and I'm sure she will too. (My 9 year old were fairly mature and I never worried about them in situations like that so that influences my feelings on the matter.)

[keptwoman]

I would consider it leaving two 9 year olds to babysit for what she thought was going to be 15 minutes. It wouldn't bother me. But things backfired on her and of course it went longer. I would just say, "In the future, can you bring the girls in with you if you have to stop and do an errand?" I would certainly be happy to comply with that request and I'm sure she will too. (My 9 year old were fairly mature and I never worried about them in situations like that so that influences my feelings on the matter.)

:iagree:

[teamturner]

I just looked it up at the TX Dept. of Family and Protective services. Here's what it says:

 

 

 

Leaving a child in a vehicle is punishable under the Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 22, Section 10 LEAVING A CHILD IN A VEHICLE. A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly leaves a child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child is:

1. younger than seven years of age; and
   
2. not attended by an individual in the vehicle
   

who is 14 years of age or older. An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor. If the child is injured, the charge is then elevated to child endangerment, which is a felony. The penalties are six months to two years in jail and a fine up to $10,000.

Leaving a child unattended in a car is also a form of neglectful supervision.

 

I guess I should let her know so she doesn't get in trouble. It was a year or so on this board that I read of a mother who was arrested for leaving her 10 yo ds in the car.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will let her know when I'm next visiting with her and just mention it non-challantly.

[LittleIzumi]

I would consider it leaving two 9 year olds to babysit for what she thought was going to be 15 minutes. It wouldn't bother me. But things backfired on her and of course it went longer. I would just say, "In the future, can you bring the girls in with you if you have to stop and do an errand?" I would certainly be happy to comply with that request and I'm sure she will too. (My 9 year old were fairly mature and I never worried about them in situations like that so that influences my feelings on the matter.)

:iagree: I was babysitting my brothers at 9, but that's not what you thought your dd would be doing.

[kalanamak]

If it were me, I would not approach her, I just would not, in the future, allow her to watch my kids. Leaving a 4.5 yo in a car and/or leaving a 4.5 yo at home are not OK in my book, and I would not expect/trust her to change her behavior for me.

 

:iagree: But I'm a non-confronter.

[woolybear]

I think it's good you looked up the actual law. I got to tell you, though, I would not be alright with what she did AT ALL. And I would think if she makes that kind of choice plus leaving her own kids at home alone, then I would not trust her to make other choices which could affect my children. I'm sure it's been helpful for both of you to trade off, but if it were me I wouldn't do it any more with her.

 

Forgot to add: I am not comfortable with confrontation, but I would tell her that you didn't feel comfortable with her choice and let her know what the law is.

Edited March 2, 2011 by woolybear
forgot something

[Murphy101]

If someone says they are going to babysit for me, I expect them to actually stick around and do it.

 

Even if I was okay with leaving a 9 year old in charge of a 5 year old, be it in the car for a few or at home for longer - I would not be okay thinking I had left my kid with a sitter who had basically abandoned them. And I wouldn't be okay with a 9 year old being the only supervision for a 5 year old in a public place or somewhere not my home. (At home is iffy but possible. They know where everything is and what is expected and how to get ahold of me. VERY different from suddenly being left in another families car somewhere or anoer house.)

 

That said, if this is her parenting style, you likely aren't going to convince her to overhaul it when your dd visits.

 

I wouldn't confront her. I just wouldn't allow my kid to be watched by her anymore. Once could have been a brain fart. But if she is showing a pattern

of this? Nope. No more of that for us.

 

I HAVE confronted a friend before and she just didn't get it. So we are friends. But I do not call her to watch my little ones.;)

[tex-mex]

That said, if this is her parenting style, you likely aren't going to convince her to overhaul it when your dd visits.

 

I wouldn't confront her. I just wouldn't allow my kid to be watched by her anymore. Once could have been a brain fart. But if she is showing a pattern

of this? Nope. No more of that for us.

 

I HAVE confronted a friend before and she just didn't get it. So we are friends. But I do not call her to watch my little ones.;)

I tend to be very blunt and confrontational. :D

I have experienced some friends behave upon my request with the care of my child. Others... well, it can be the end of a friendship. That decision to leave the kids in the car may be a bad habit. With my kid? Dealbreaker. I'd say something. But that is me.

[Alenee]

If you truly are friends, I would bring it up now. Leaving it to "nonchalantly" bring into conversation later and being armed with the law on the matter is a sure-fire way to end the friendship, imo. I would hate that I caused distrust but what would sit in the back of my mind long after the talk would be the time between the incident and you bringing it up. I would *know* you stewed over the matter and didn't tell me right away and that fact alone would make me very uncomfortable. It would make me question whether or not you were holding a grudge about other things. If you really want to keep the friendship, you have to be honest from the get-go.

[Murphy101]

I tend to be very blunt and confrontational. :D

I have experienced some friends behave upon my request with the care of my child. Others... well, it can be the end of a friendship. That decision to leave the kids in the car may be a bad habit. With my kid? Dealbreaker. I'd say something. But that is me.

 

:D well I'm not exactly known for my tact and meek ways either.:lol:

 

But on this, I would have said something the first time. Second time? Well obviously this is enough of a habit that they just don't think to do different with my kid, kwim? Deal breaker for sitting, but not for necessarily friendship.;)

 

Also to OP, did your dd have a way to contact you during these events? If so, I would have sat her down and said that she should have called me right then. I'd role play how she could possibly have spoken up that she knew her mom wouldn't be okay with the situation.

 

"My mom isn't ready to leave us alone in the car - can we come in to wait?"

 

"My mom doesn't like me staying some place alone away from home - I need to call her if you are leaving."

 

This might not prevent such occurrences, but it does let the other parent know they are doing something not kosher to you with your kid. And it gives your kid a way to either change the situation without appearing rude or at least update you on the situation.

 

I did once have a parent refuse to let my child use the phone to call me and I was royally POd. THAT ended a budding friendship. Don't EVER tell my kid they can't or shouldn't talk/come to me unless you want to see one angry mama. That is one of the many reasons I now make sure my kids have a cell phone when not with me.

 

ETA: I mentioned this to boys still up. They said that was easy. They just tell people their mom will kind of freak if she isn't informed of schedule or plan changes and they don't want to make me mad enough to regret letting them do whatever, so they are going to call me just to be sure its okay. Apparently this induces pity for my poor harassed kid with strict parents and they get to check in for an all clear from me. I don't know whether to laugh or feel insulted. 95% of the time I give an all clear. Guess that other 5% was really memorable? LOL But as long as my rep helps them follow my rules when away from home - it's good enough for me. ;D

Edited March 2, 2011 by Martha

[RanchGirl]

If it were me, I would not approach her, I just would not, in the future, allow her to watch my kids. Leaving a 4.5 yo in a car and/or leaving a 4.5 yo at home are not OK in my book, and I would not expect/trust her to change her behavior for me.

 

I am all for direct honest communication, but I don't think you can confront someone into changing their parenting style. Clearly hers conflicts with yours, so you shouldn't leave your children with them until your children are older.

 

I'm definitely not saying I think it's at all ok to leave a 4 year old in the car, I'm just saying I don't think a confrontation will be productive.

[missesd]

I would casually mention, "Hey, the girls mentioned to me you left them in the car while you went into your Dr's?" Wait for an answer. And then say, "Well I looked it up, because I wasn't sure it was ok. You know you see all these horrible stories on the news and they have changed the laws a lot..." Then lead in with what the penal code is and what you found. Then say that you'd hate for her to get into trouble with your kids on her watch, and that really your not altogether real comfortable with it. That should be enough. IF she respects you as a fellow mom, and friend, she'll abide by her wishes. I would make sure and talk to your kids though, and tell if she ever does it again, they need to tell you even if she asks/tells them not to.

[teamturner]

If you truly are friends, I would bring it up now. Leaving it to "nonchalantly" bring into conversation later and being armed with the law on the matter is a sure-fire way to end the friendship, imo. I would hate that I caused distrust but what would sit in the back of my mind long after the talk would be the time between the incident and you bringing it up. I would *know* you stewed over the matter and didn't tell me right away and that fact alone would make me very uncomfortable. It would make me question whether or not you were holding a grudge about other things. If you really want to keep the friendship, you have to be honest from the get-go.

 

This is a good point. I guess I avoided it because I initially planned to approach the issue when and if the occasion came up that she would be driving my kids somewhere, which rarely happens unless it's for swim practice in the summer. I had hoped I could ask her if she planned on making any stops on the way and if she wouldn't mind bringing my dc home first. If I had the facts before hand, then I could make the choice if I am comfortable with her plan or not.

 

If I bring it up now, I don't have to mention when my dd's told me about the incident. I'm mostly concerned that she might get herself into trouble by making that choice for her own dc. I know she is going to bring up the possibility of carpooling for summer swim practice. Could I mention my preference of her not leaving my dc in the car at that time? I thought the more time that passed the less of a big deal it would seem to her and therefore less confrontational or accusatory.

[teamturner]

I would casually mention, "Hey, the girls mentioned to me you left them in the car while you went into your Dr's?" Wait for an answer. And then say, "Well I looked it up, because I wasn't sure it was ok. You know you see all these horrible stories on the news and they have changed the laws a lot..." Then lead in with what the penal code is and what you found. Then say that you'd hate for her to get into trouble with your kids on her watch, and that really your not altogether real comfortable with it. That should be enough. IF she respects you as a fellow mom, and friend, she'll abide by her wishes. I would make sure and talk to your kids though, and tell if she ever does it again, they need to tell you even if she asks/tells them not to.

 

This is the approach I was considering.

 

I am kind of wondering if she did tell them not to tell me. I'm going to check with my 9 yo dd in the morning.

 

Thanks!

[extendedforecast]

I just looked it up at the TX Dept. of Family and Protective services. Here's what it says:

 

 

 

Leaving a child in a vehicle is punishable under the Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 22, Section 10 LEAVING A CHILD IN A VEHICLE. A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly leaves a child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child is:

1. younger than seven years of age; and

2. not attended by an individual in the vehicle

who is 14 years of age or older. An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor. If the child is injured, the charge is then elevated to child endangerment, which is a felony. The penalties are six months to two years in jail and a fine up to $10,000.

Leaving a child unattended in a car is also a form of neglectful supervision.

 

I guess I should let her know so she doesn't get in trouble. It was a year or so on this board that I read of a mother who was arrested for leaving her 10 yo ds in the car.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will let her know when I'm next visiting with her and just mention it non-challantly.

 

It's late, I'm tired. So does this mean that it's illegal to leave a child under the age of 14 alone in a car with a child younger than 7, but if left with a child older than 7, it's okay?

[M&NMom]

Well, I tend to mull over things and then when I feel I need to, I bring up what's bothering me. I would not be comfortable with that at all and I would bring it to her attention. If nothing else, it might make you feel better.

 

Believe it or not, my brother has two daughters (9 & 5) who are not belted in. The 5 year old should be in a booster seat. Last year my 10 year old went for pizza and then a playdate with them. My child always buckles up. I remember saying something about a week later about riding with them and whether or not she wore a seatbelt. I was stunned when she said she didn't. Apparently the seatbelt was tucked in the seat and she was afraid to ask since their girls didn't have one on :confused:. I let my brother have it. Fast forward to this past January: we had a party for my grandfather at a restaurant. My daughter got invited to go home with my nieces. I walked out to the car to make sure she was buckled in. My sister in law made a snide remark (to my mother while I was walking behind her) about me having to make sure my child was buckled and rolled her eyes. I was flabbergasted and had to contain myself. I told my nieces in the car that they needed to be buckled to protect them in case of a wreck and because it was the LAW! Looking back, I wish I would've put a stop to my child going with them.

 

I wish you the best with whatever you decide.

 

T

[teamturner]

I know! I think it is poorly worded. I kept wondering if it is okay to leave a child in the car alone as long as they are not under 7?

 

So once my youngest is 7 I'm good to go and leave all my dc in the car? Oh, by that time my oldest will almost be 14. :confused:

[HeidiKC]

I would not take the nonchalant approach, or the breaking the law approach. You don't want her to think it isn't a big deal to you (nonchalant approach might make it seem that way). And breaking the law isn't really the issue for you, and she might be of the mindset that that's the law, but we all know everyone does it and it isn't enforced. I think it might also more likely offend if you mention the breaking the law thing nonchalantly. She might think WHAT? You went and looked up the law? What is up with that?

 

If you are good friends she should take it well. I know it's hard, but you need to be sure she completely understands where you're coming from on this issue and to know it won't happen again. I'd just say something like, "Dd happened to mention that they stayed in the car alone during your appt. I know not everyone is on the same page when it comes to what age to leave kids alone, and I'm probably on the far end of that (insert chuckle). I really am not comfortable with my kids being home or in the car (or anywhere!) alone until they are at least 11 (or whatever you think). It's probably a good thing that this came up, because the girls and I had a good talk about it and I made sure they knew that I am not comfortable with that. So if you ever need to leave while the girls are over, please let me know and I'm glad to come get them. Thanks for understanding."

 

Or some such. Also, if the girls were at all uncomfortable being left in the car, I'd throw that into the conversation.

[extendedforecast]

I know! I think it is poorly worded. I kept wondering if it is okay to leave a child in the car alone as long as they are not under 7?

 

So once my youngest is 7 I'm good to go and leave all my dc in the car? Oh, by that time my oldest will almost be 14. :confused:

 

I forgot to answer your question. Because you consider her a good friend, I'd say something like, "X, I feel awkward bringing this up, but I feel like I have to so that we can be on the same page from now on. I'm uncomfortable with the kids being left in the car alone. I know you never meant to be gone that long, but sadly, anything can happen to our kids when left unsupervised, and I would hate for you to be in that situation. From now on it would mean a lot to me if you would bring the children in with you." I pictured what I would say to one of my friends. Unfortunately, DH is so paranoid that we rarely allow them in a car driven by anyone else. He's getting better though.

Edited March 2, 2011 by extendedforecast
deleted personal info

[jplain]

So once my youngest is 7 I'm good to go and leave all my dc in the car? Oh, by that time my oldest will almost be 14. :confused:

Yes, once the youngest is 7, by law you're fine. If any children in the car are under 7, a 14+ year old needs to be present. However, being in compliance with the law doesn't mean that a well-meaning passerby won't report you anyway. Hopefully the case would be dropped immediately, but the disruption to your life may not be worth it.

 

Whether or not it is safe to leave them in the car is an entirely different issue. That'll probably depend on your kids' maturity level, the weather (temp and sun), and where and how long the car is going to be parked. :)

[2cents]

I think that she needs to be informed. You might approach it with saying that you were surprised to hear that what was ok in your youth was not ok now. It gives her a little bit of an out and may avoid defensiveness.

 

Personally, I don't see how a chiropractic adjustment was so necessary that she would leave them outside like that. I kinda have issues with mine being in a strange waiting room too. You can't guarantee the receptionist will watch them and strangers may be going in and out. It was an unsafe situation all around and she needs to be gently clued in.

[Mary in VA]

If it were me, I would not approach her, I just would not, in the future, allow her to watch my kids. Leaving a 4.5 yo in a car and/or leaving a 4.5 yo at home are not OK in my book, and I would not expect/trust her to change her behavior for me.

:iagree: My kids are 16 and 20 now, but I found over the years that there are moms who do not have the same level of concern over some things that I do. I'm not saying that's wrong (although illegal in this case) but while I could mention things I knew about, ultimately there would be things we had not discussed but would not have the same standard. I discussed this with one of my best friends once and we realized we pretty much agreed on most things.:001_smile: Some mothers would think we were overprotective. So for peace of mind, I didn't leave my dds with moms I knew were more nonchalant about things. eg. While most moms would enforce bike helmets, not all would require shoes while riding. I do. Don't want a lost toe :001_smile:

 

Mary