s/o convention thread: Who are the convention customers?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

A friend of mine posted something on Facebook recently observing that users weren't FB's customers, the advertisers were (making users the product, I think).

 

I was wondering something like that while reading the thread about conventions. Who are the real customers at a convention?

 

If they are those who are buying tickets, why do so many people seem to fall between the cracks of the parenting conference that discusses a little homeschooling and the secular conference that doesn't seem to want to address academics much at all?

 

Or is it possible that some of the big conventions are looking to the big vendors as their customers and the convention goers as the product that they are delivering?

 

Probably too cynical. But I sort of want to go through the list of vendors coming to the two big conferences in VA, both of which seem to fall in the two extremes, and point out that I'll be traveling 8+ hours by car just to go to the MidWest Homeschooling Convention, because it at least seems more willing to offer balance.

 

I wonder if they would care. Or are the vendors who cater to the extremes just not interested in the rest of us (the majority of us, I might suggest). Would the organizers of the conventions care?

 

(I am appalled by the editorial control that SWB has occasionally referrenced. As if I need some big overlord to determine for me what is true and good. Blech.)

[gardening momma]

Are you just asking about the vendors, or the speakers too? (And I know that often the speakers are vendors as well).

 

I don't know about other conventions, but the Great Homeschool Conventions, such as MidWest, are very interested in what the convention-goers want. They do have to pay for the use of the convention center, so of course they need the money from ticket sales. Do the vendors pay to have a booth? I'm sure that helps with the cost. I'm also presuming that the speakers get paid, so ticket sales and booth rental pays for that.

 

I think when you have something big like this, you have to run it like a business, as someone posted in another thread. You have to cover the costs to run it. It looks like MidWest has been doing a good job at this, in addition to providing what the convention goers want.

 

ETA: I filled out a survey they emailed me after the last convention. I don't remember much about it, but they did ask which speakers I liked the most. They may have asked which ones I liked the least (of the ones I went to), and which ones I would like to hear that weren't there.

[LND1218]

Hmm there is only one big conference in VA this year. There is a second smaller one.

 

The 2 groups that do those are completely opposite groups - therefore they are reaching different groups and their convention reflects that.

 

The one group naturally draws a certain demographic therefore their convention will too. It really doesn't matter who the customer is with a statement like "coming from a biblical worldview, serves all homeschoolers—regardless of religious or philosophical beliefs." It's going to attract the biblical worldview crowd.

 

The other group that is going to have a convention this year caters to/targets the opposite therefore their convention will to. The other says "is an inclusive organization and is neutral in matters of politics and religion" so they will attract this crowd. Although this really too small of a convention to bother with IMO.

 

The other 2 big ones that VA has had in the past aren't happening this year. So with these it's not really about who the customer is but what the organization stands for.

 

Going to the Midwest one is a great idea because that looks like a great convention. I wanted to go to that one.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Steph

[Mrs Mungo]

The one group naturally draws a certain demographic therefore their convention will too. It really doesn't matter who the customer is with a statement like "coming from a biblical worldview, serves all homeschoolers—regardless of religious or philosophical beliefs." It's going to attract the biblical worldview crowd.

 

The other group that is going to have a convention this year caters to/targets the opposite therefore their convention will to. The other says "is an inclusive organization and is neutral in matters of politics and religion" so they will attract this crowd. Although this really too small of a convention to bother with IMO.

 

:confused1: Forgive me, but I'm confused as to how these are opposites. Wouldn't the opposite of religious worldview/conservative political POV be liberal atheists? Am I misunderstanding? If you are in inclusive, aren't you allowing all points of view? Or are they meaning the vendors must be neutral?

[momofkhm]

I'm not quite sure what your question is, but in terms of input - NCHE has volunteers in each talk to pass out and collect surveys. You rate each speaker on a scale of 1 to 5. There are a few questions but having not been since May I can't remember what they ask. They do collect some demographic info but I think it's limited to mom, dad, teen. They also welcome suggestions for speakers at future events. I think they'd take suggestions for vendors as well.

 

We heard Todd Wilson up in VA one year and suggested him to come to NC. Of course the year he's coming, dh isn't. :001_huh:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I guess I've gotten the impression that many large conventions (and I would categorize anything multiday and with both vendors and multiple workshops as largish) seem to have an implicit or explicit orthodoxy. And I guess an orthopraxy as well. (IE, it's not enough to believe certain things, you ought to also do certain things.)

 

So you end up with conferences where the emphasis is on how families live rather than how they educate. Which got me to wondering how organizers of such conventions actually see the role of their convention. Do they see themselves as being representative of the interests and desires of the convention goers. Or as an outlet for disseminating what is "true" whether that is integration of a religious viewpoint with science and history or the superiority of child directed learning.

 

Am I as a homeschooler seen as a convention customer, who should be enticed to attend by presenting the best and widest possible offerings of vendors and speakers. Or am I seen as someone who needs to be "uplifted" with encouragement but not challenged by viewpoints that haven't been prescreened (be they not religious enough or to academically "rigid").

 

I guess it's unlikely that a convention actually thinks they are delivering potential customers to vendors in quite the way that FB or TV provides viewers to advertisers. But I do tire of groups that seem to want to do the thinking for me.

 

I suspect that is a reason why the Great Homeschool Conventions are thriving and expanding. There seem to be lots of homeschoolers who are confident in making their own assessments of what is out of bounds and what is acceptable. And who aren't frightened by the sight of tables of books they might not agree with.

[angela in ohio]

If they are those who are buying tickets, why do so many people seem to fall between the cracks of the parenting conference that discusses a little homeschooling and the secular conference that doesn't seem to want to address academics much at all?

 

I don't actually think this is true. I think some vocal people on the WTM board does not a majority make. :D I think the majority of people in the homeschool movement DO fall into one or the other group that you describe, and there are a few who fall in between. I think the number 'in between' is growing, though, and you will see new conferences spring up to meet that. I don't see the other conferences changing, though, as there will still be a population who desires them and pays money to go to them just the way they are.

 

As a pp said, though, I don't think you can compare the organizers to a money-making organization like FB. The conventions are generally put on by Christian groups who are volunteering their time in a desire to minister to other homeschooling families. Turning a profit is not the motive for them, just for the vendors who attend (and not even for all of them.)

 

As another poster put it so well at the end of the conference thread, those conferences do meet a need for some others, and that's why they are the way they are.

[angela in ohio]

I suspect that is a reason why the Great Homeschool Conventions are thriving and expanding. There seem to be lots of homeschoolers who are confident in making their own assessments of what is out of bounds and what is acceptable. And who aren't frightened by the sight of tables of books they might not agree with.

 

Of course, I just noticed today that Gothard has a booth in Cinci, and the Duggars are speaking. While this conference started out pretty classical and academic, they seem to be adding a lot of more conservative Christian speakers each year.

[Sophia]

I think many of the conferences put forth a mission statement or "about us" blurb to let people know who they are and what their purpose is.

It really should not be diffucult to figure out whether or not it's for you (general you.)

 

I am curious what you mean by or who you are referencing when you say "And who aren't frightened by the sight of tables of books they might not agree with".

Is that the homeschooler who is "creeped out" by purity rings?

I'm pretty conservative but I'm not frightened nor threatened by books I don't agree with.

[gardening momma]

Of course, I just noticed today that Gothard has a booth in Cinci, and the Duggars are speaking. While this conference started out pretty classical and academic, they seem to be adding a lot of more conservative Christian speakers each year.

The MidWest conference started at a church in Cincinnati. I'd say it's more likely it's becoming more diverse as it grows. All of the exhibit hall will be available this year (no Pet Expo this time), so there's more room for vendors. So just because you see Gothard there doesn't mean there isn't an equal number of soap vendors. ;) Also, the Duggars thing doesn't start until 5 or 6 pm, which was the end of the convention last year. It's an extra thing tacked on for those who want to stay longer and see them. I am. :)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I am curious what you mean by or who you are referencing when you say "And who aren't frightened by the sight of tables of books they might not agree with".

Is that the homeschooler who is "creeped out" by purity rings?

I'm pretty conservative but I'm not frightened nor threatened by books I don't agree with.

 

I think there are people from either end who are upset by the presentation of material that they don't want to practice.

 

It might be science material that presents a creationist or ID viewpoint (or even just tries to be neutral). It might be the purity rings. It might be science material that dares to mention evolution. It might be homeschool help books that suggest prayer and Bible study. It might be books on the joys of unschooling.

 

SWB mentioned that she'd had a conference that threatened her with withdrawal of her honorarium is she mentioned certain topics. I find that distressing.

 

But I also doubt that "inclusive" conventions have space for HSLDA or Patrick Henry tables.

 

On the other hand, it's not like academic conferences for school teachers are free from orthodoxy either. I imagine going to one and advocating merit pay, dismantling tenure and school choice would go over like a lead baloon.:tongue_smilie:

[Murphy101]

I think it varies pending the organization planning it.

 

For example, ours says:

 

NOTE ABOUT WORKSHOPS & SPEAKERS

Workshops speakers are selected by the OCHEC Board

to cover specific topics important to Oklahoma's homeschoolers

and are not designed to promote a particular vendor or product.

 

I have NEVER in 10 years of being a vary active home schooler here have I seen a survey or anything via emails or any other venue asking homeschoolers what or who they would like to see or hear at conventions, not for speakers or vendors. So apparently a small number of people on a board make the decision. And I have been twice, no surveys were given at the event either.

 

I don't really have a problem with who they bring in other than it has absolutely NOTHING to do with home schooling. Some of it I might even agree with, but that still doesn't mean it has any purpose at a home school convention. THAT is the crux of my issue.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Martha

[Sophia]

I think it varies pending the organization planning it.

 

For example, ours says:

 

NOTE ABOUT WORKSHOPS & SPEAKERS

Workshops speakers are selected by the OCHEC Board

to cover specific topics important to Oklahoma's homeschoolers

and are not designed to promote a particular vendor or product.

 

I have NEVER in 10 years of being a vary active home schooler here have I seen a survey or anything via emails or any other venue asking homeschoolers what or who they would like to see or hear at conventions, not for speakers or vendors.

 

I don't really have a problem with who they bring in other than it has absolutely NOTHING to do with home schooling. Some of it I might even a free with, but that still doesn't mean it has any purpose at a home school convention. THAT is the crux of my issue.

 

If you are implying there is a "good ole boy network" behind some conventions, you'll get no argument from me.

And that's all I'm going to say about that :D

 

I do believe that because many homeschoolers view homeschooling as a lifestyle choice, many of the topics that are not pertinent to you, or others who are primarily interested in academics, are still valuable to another group of parents.

Some of the topics you mentioned in your other thread aren't important to your homeschool. I get that.

But they are important to mine. Well, some, anyway. The ones that aren't I just walk on by.

It doesn't bother me that some homeschool speakers and vendors are not on the same page as my homeschool just as it doesn't bother me that SWB Festivus isn't inviting any people of faith to speak (besides SWB.)

 

Egads, am I getting tolerant in my old age?

 

I guess the crux of my issue is that I sensed some ugliness directed toward some very sincere people.

[angela in ohio]

I have NEVER in 10 years of being a vary active home schooler here have I seen a survey or anything via emails or any other venue asking homeschoolers what or who they would like to see or hear at conventions, not for speakers or vendors. So apparently a small number of people on a board make the decision. And I have been twice, no surveys were given at the event either.

 

Our local Christian state groups both have conventions (we live on the border.) At both of them, they circulate survys asking for reviews of the convention and suggestions for the next year. If you haven't seen that from your group, ask them to try it. Better yet, offer to coordinate the printing and tabulating for them, in case they don't have the man power to add it.

[Farrar]

I don't have a lot of experience with conventions, so take my opinion with a grain of salt... but in the sense that you're asking, I think that the majority of conventions are there to put forth an agenda. For most of them, it's a conservative Christian agenda. They're to serve the agenda, not the homeschoolers.

 

Of course, there's a good deal of overlap there. The things they do to serve their agenda include encouraging homeschoolers and providing information of a practical sort, as well as moral and spiritual support, so this is not to say that many people can't get a lot out of a convention anyway. However, if it's a question of which takes precedence - the philosophical agenda of the convention organizers or the practical interests of the homeschool community - I think for most conventions it's the former.

 

As for the question of vendors selling materials I don't agree with, I don't generally have a problem with it. My homeschool is secular but I have no problem shopping for curriculum and books among tables of Christian materials. However, I do question whether there's a line to be drawn. I saw two vendors selling the Pearls' book at the convention I attended last year and that made me feel sad, to say the least.

 

I think for me, what would be nice would be to see a convention where the agenda dovetailed more closely with my own agenda. I think that for many of us, it's the same, which is why a convention where the agenda would be academic excellence in homeschooling and how to promote that, would be of interest.

[Murphy101]

If you are implying there is a "good ole boy network" behind some conventions, you'll get no argument from me.

And that's all I'm going to say about that :D

 

;). Understood.

 

I do believe that because many homeschoolers view homeschooling as a lifestyle choice, many of the topics that are not pertinent to you, or others who are primarily interested in academics, are still valuable to another group of parents.

Some of the topics you mentioned in your other thread aren't important to your homeschool. I get that.

But they are important to mine. Well, some, anyway.

 

I happen to view home schooling as a lifestyle choice as well. And some of the topics are very important to me for my family.

 

But there is zero logic to saying vaccinating, Hank the Cowdog, or purity rings have anything to do with home schooling. They just do not.:confused:

 

To me this is like a very devout plumber going to a plumbing convention to hear about how to raise godly sons or be a better husband or what vitamins to take for better health. It isn't a question of how he views his lifestyle or even whether he agrees. It is a question of logic and reason.:)

 

ETA: oop hit go to soon. Sorry.

 

I guess the crux of my issue is that I sensed some ugliness directed toward some very sincere people.

 

No ugliness that I intended or sensed. Just a general disgruntlement with some home school conventions that seem to have little to do with actual home schooling. :)

Edited March 1, 2011 by Martha

[LisaKinVA]

:confused1: Forgive me, but I'm confused as to how these are opposites. Wouldn't the opposite of religious worldview/conservative political POV be liberal atheists? Am I misunderstanding? If you are in inclusive, aren't you allowing all points of view? Or are they meaning the vendors must be neutral?

 

I think what she was trying to express is that the large convention in Richmond will be attracting people who homeschool for primarily religious reasons, and the other convention is trying to reach the others.

 

Unfortunately, the one that is geared towards families homeschooling for primarily academic reasons is *really, really small*, and while I would *like* to hear Joy Hakim, and see her science texts... I'm not sure it's worth the $$$ to go.

 

I wouldn't say that the Richmond convention is "anti-academics." But, it "feels" that way with the vendor selection and keynote addresses many times... mainly because it is so difficult for vendors to get a spot, and a good number of vendors are homeschool families selling things they make, there's always a large breadbeckers booth, etc. Obviously, the vendors do well, because they keep coming back (so, customers want them there), I just wish we could get some different vendors in there... so we could see, touch, feel and interact with other curriculum providers.

[justasque]

As well as attending quite a few conventions, big and small, some homeschooling and some other things, I have helped organize conventions before (not homeschooling ones). We relied heavily on feedback forms from previous years to decide which speakers to invite. We tried to schedule a variety of sessions, making them into loose "tracks" depending on where the attendees were in their lives and careers, so that there would be something for the newbie and something for the old timer, something for moms and something for dads, something for those parenting little 'uns and something for those parenting teens, something for the professional and something for the volunteer, and so on in each time slot. We looked at session topics from similar conventions, both local and from other areas of the country, to get inspiration (and to figure out what was "old news").

 

Yes, this was a lot of work! Yes, it did involve to some extent stereotyping our participants for planning purposes, though any participant could of course attend more-or-less any session. We roughed out the subjects (relying on a casual but useful survey of potential attendees) and then paired speakers with subjects, finding specialists if needed. We also tried to include a few first-time speakers each year, so as to "grow" our speaker pool. We chose folks from within our organization, spouses who were knowledgeable about something, well-known professionals, and any professional or specialist folks who happened to live near the convention area, etc.

 

It's a pretty huge undertaking, and took a good 15-ish volunteers working pretty seriously for a year to put together. Even just the speaker part involves a lot of correspondence, a lot of communication about what both of your ideas are about the topic, a lot of follow-up to be sure you have their lunch choices straight and their name spelled right on the nametag, and so on. This is true even for volunteer speakers.

 

I've also been to several smaller, more local events, which are cheaper to put together and cheaper to attend, but of course can't afford the name-brand speakers or space needed for a vast number of vendors (though this didn't really matter - they were good events). If you get someone who is passionate about a subject, whether it's math or once-a-month cooking or natural childbirth or communication skills or whatever, you can have a great session even if the speaker isn't name-brand.

 

All that to say that I am surprised that a convention would not include a feedback form - those forms were how we knew if our job had been well-done or was lacking, and what we needed to tweak (or throw out, or start) the next year.

Edited March 1, 2011 by askPauline

[TravelingChris]

Dh and I both liked the FPEA convention. It is huge and in a nice hotel. There was plenty of academics along with other topics not really having to do with homeschooling. Since I have been here in VA, I have attended the Northern VA homeschooling one once and that was great. I have not attended HEAV. I am coming to the end of homeschooling -only 3 or 4 more years at most- and the topics in even academic ones don't really appeal to me much anymore-I have been homeschooling for 16 years.

[Sophia]

 

I happen to view home schooling as a lifestyle choice as well. And some of the topics are very important to me for my family.

 

But there is zero logic to saying vaccinating, Hank the Cowdog, or purity rings have anything to do with home schooling. They just do not.:confused:

 

To me this is like a very devout plumber going to a plumbing convention to hear about how to raise godly sons or be a better husband or what vitamins to take for better health. It isn't a question of how he views his lifestyle or even whether he agrees. It is a question of logic and reason.:)

 

 

A plumber going to a plumbing convention will need to be up to date on various codes, pipes, tools, etc. That's what he'll be looking for at a convention, devout or not. Plumbing is plumbing.

 

Children are not so cut and dry nor are homeschooling parents (how's that for an understatement? :001_rolleyes:)

 

We don't do purity rings because I'd rather buy books, but we would probably go listen to the speaker because character is huge in our homeschool~even bigger than geometry and writing (although that doesn't mean I'm saying it's an either/or situation.)

 

It is through homeschooling that we became more educated about health and tackled baking, so I'm glad when I see Bread Beckers at GHEA and can stock up on supplies.

 

I'm not going to defend the vaccination talk or Hank, but rather speakers and vendors that are not directly affecting my dc's SAT and ACT scores, but still benefit my homeschool.

 

I do see your point about offering more academically oriented workshops, I just don't think the rest need to be necessarily dismissed.

 

Also, our state has two large conventions that have several high school and academic related topics every summer. I suspect there are homeschoolers in Ga. who choose not to take advantage of them though because they don't want to support a Christian organization.

Their choice but also their loss.

 

For instance, Royal Fireworks (MCT) Press's workshop only had a handful of people last July.

I can see convention organizers not inviting them back if no one is going to show up to listen.

 

Anyway, hope you all have fun at Festivus :-)

Edited March 1, 2011 by Sophia

[Marylou]

Anyway, hope you all have fun at Festivus :-)

 

Ditto!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Sophia,

 

I want to appologize if I came off as putting down conferences with a Christian focus or Christian homeschoolers. I consider myself firmly in the latter category. And, truth be told, when we were embarking on our homeschool journey, it was several Christian orriented conferences that lit a lamp for us to start finding our way. HEAV, BEACH and a couple small curriculum fairs in the greater DC area along with a long list of Christian leaders of homeschool groups were all very helpful.

 

And I think that it can be helpful to be reminded that our children were placed in our care by God, with the implication that he both considers us up to the task of parenting them and that we are held accountable for what we do.

 

My frustration stems from a sense that the Christian homescooling community seems to put its greatest emphasis on praying and less on equipping parents with the academic skill of teaching and training.

 

To stray from homeschooling to another analogy, my fil is a fire chief who also had a career as in independant insurance agent. When he owned his insurance business, he did insurance for small cities, companies, the zoo and several churches. He often had churches tell him that they didn't need to install fire protection measures like sprinklers or alarms because they felt that God would provide for them. He often replied that God's provision sometimes comes in the form of a fire company with an inch and a half fire hose.

 

IMHO (and it is worth only that, my opinion) is that sometimes God's provision for homeschool parents come in encouragement and exhortation and sometimes it needs to come in the form of a clinic on foreign language instruction, a panel comparing forms of high school record keeping, a workshop on approaches to algebra or a refresher in how to teach writing.

 

So again, I hope you didn't take away from my earlier posts that I was slamming Christians as being unworthy because of their faith. That wasn't my intent. I was venting some frustrations about a certain emphasis that I've seen from some people and some groups and some conferences.

 

(FWIW, I think that the Festivus term is mostly flippantly used here, at least as it applies to a convention. I don't think that the implication was that homeschoolers of faith need not apply.)

[Mrs Mungo]

I see, the opposite comment referred to focus as opposed to philosophy? I understand.

 

As to topics not pertaining to homeshooling? I don't think there is anything wrong with catering to the interests of a group. I agree that a vocal group not this board does not a majority make. I also agree that aiming some points of interest that are more mainstream would only widen their audience.

 

The last conference I attended was for military spouses. There were talks/workshops/classes on dealing with different personalities, running your small business, managing volunteers, wine tasting, party planning, all sorts of things. If I were in charge of a conference those are the type of classes I would add-fun and/or informative for people at large (especially the women who are the majority in pulling the weight of homeshooling). But, I wouldn't take away Doug Wilson or Tim Hawkins just because I have no interest in them.

[angela in ohio]

The MidWest conference started at a church in Cincinnati. I'd say it's more likely it's becoming more diverse as it grows. All of the exhibit hall will be available this year (no Pet Expo this time), so there's more room for vendors. So just because you see Gothard there doesn't mean there isn't an equal number of soap vendors. ;) Also, the Duggars thing doesn't start until 5 or 6 pm, which was the end of the convention last year. It's an extra thing tacked on for those who want to stay longer and see them. I am. :)

 

The move was more of a space issue; we were cramped in to some of the rooms so tight in the first few years that it was miserable. The only added "diversity" I have seen is MCT, really. At the same time, they have added Gothard, Wilsons, etc., and many, many others on the other side.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with whatever they decide to do, and I'm a fairly conservative Christian. I do disagree that it is becoming less fundamentalist and more academic or secular, though. I was concerned last year with the dramatic increase in relaxed and "just believe, don't think" speakers. Especially considering the first year we listened to talks on the dangers of anti-intellectualism... :001_smile:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

When I was putting two types of conferences on opposite ends of a spectrum it wasn't that I thought they are actual opposites of each other. You could be Christian and child directed or agnostic and academically rigorous. But I have sometimes seen both flavors (maybe that's a better word) present unwritten and overt standards of what is acceptable to discuss. (My favorite being the tendency for "inclusive" groups to want to exclude Christians or members of Christian support groups or "rigid" homeschoolers. Usually just makes me roll my eyes, but I did point out to one email list years back that requiring irl membership in inclusive groups to be on an inclusive email list didn't make a lot of sense. It suggested that a person couldn't be accepting of others unless the group they got support from had no restrictions. Happily, they changed the requirement for the email list.)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't actually think this is true. I think some vocal people on the WTM board does not a majority make. :D I think the majority of people in the homeschool movement DO fall into one or the other group that you describe, and there are a few who fall in between. I think the number 'in between' is growing, though, and you will see new conferences spring up to meet that. I don't see the other conferences changing, though, as there will still be a population who desires them and pays money to go to them just the way they are.

 

 

 

You are right that I need to remember that there is a difference between a public outcry and an outcry in public. Even (especially?) when I'm one of the people venting.

[Murphy101]

To stray from homeschooling to another analogy, my fil is a fire chief who also had a career as in independant insurance agent. When he owned his insurance business, he did insurance for small cities, companies, the zoo and several churches. He often had churches tell him that they didn't need to install fire protection measures like sprinklers or alarms because they felt that God would provide for them. He often replied that God's provision sometimes comes in the form of a fire company with an inch and a half fire hose.

 

IMHO (and it is worth only that, my opinion) is that sometimes God's provision for homeschool parents come in encouragement and exhortation and sometimes it needs to come in the form of a clinic on foreign language instruction, a panel comparing forms of high school record keeping, a workshop on approaches to algebra or a refresher in how to teach writing.

 

(FWIW, I think that the Festivus term is mostly flippantly used here, at least as it applies to a convention. I don't think that the implication was that homeschoolers of faith need not apply.)

 

:iagree: and I certainly hope Christians can attend! Wouldn't that just be my luck? I start a thread that I'm frustrated by the lack of academics at the current Christian options and bc of that thread a new convention is created that doesn't want me there bc I'm Christian? :001_huh:

[Murphy101]

You are right that I need to remember that there is a difference between a public outcry and an outcry in public. Even (especially?) when I'm one of the people venting.

 

I'm not sure why anyone thinks otherwise. I never said I was speaking for the majority. What I have said is IME, I don't know many people who fit their profile or who do fit their profile and would still appreciate a more academic focus.

 

Again, this has nothing to do with Christian beliefs to me. Some of the speakers I might agree with.

 

But that isn't what I would pay to attend a home school convention for.

 

It is highly annoying to be seeking algebra help for example and have the conversation turned to the character development of my child or the importance of a mother praying. It is not that I don't have tremendous value and concern for his character or praying - it's that commenting on his character or telling me to pray about it does not help with algebra.

 

I certainly don't expect anyone to change anything to suit me and I certainly don't have a problem with others attending such events.

 

I simply wish there was an alternative for me.

[SweetBean]

I personally think that prayer can help with Algebra. I think it is entirely possible for a Christian support group to put on a convention that addresses academics as well as other issues that may be of value to the group, and a vast number of the attendees. I suspect that the majority of those who homeschool are in fact Christian and are interested in the character focus as well as academics.

[Murphy101]

I personally think that prayer can help with Algebra. I think it is entirely possible for a Christian support group to put on a convention that addresses academics as well as other issues that may be of value to the group, and a vast number of the attendees. I suspect that the majority of those who homeschool are in fact Christian and are interested in the character focus as well as academics.

 

:001_huh:

 

Sure prayer can help with algebra or anythng else.

 

But if I tell you my kid is having a problem with say, polynomial equations or that the math isn't "sticking" and I need to find a program that clicks for him, do you have suggestions? And you respond with, "You should pray about that." or "Well just focus on his character development bc that is what matters most."

 

Yeahhhh. Even though I agree with you, uhuh, no, that was not even a little bit helpful to our algebra situation.

[Heather in WI]

:iagree: and I certainly hope Christians can attend! Wouldn't that just be my luck? I start a thread that I'm frustrated by the lack of academics at the current Christian options and bc of that thread a new convention is created that doesn't want me there bc I'm Christian? :001_huh:

 

:iagree:

 

We're a Christian family. My oldest can answer "What is the chief end of man?" through "What do we pray for in the sixth petition?" Even my 5 year old can answer "What is justification?" This doesn't mean that I want to attend a convention where I am told that I'm not a "real" Christian because I wear pants or don't wear a headcovering! :tongue_smilie:

 

On the other hand, I don't want to be banned because I believe in God as the Creator. :D

 

But if I tell you my kid is having a problem with say, polynomial equations or that the math isn't "sticking" and I need to find a program that clicks for him, do you have suggestions? And you respond with, "You should pray about that." or "Well just focus on his character development bc that is what matters most."

 

Even though I agree with you, uhuh, no, that was not even a little bit helpful to our algebra situation.

 

:iagree:

[Heather in WI]

I was wondering something like that while reading the thread about conventions. Who are the real customers at a convention?

 

If they are those who are buying tickets, why do so many people seem to fall between the cracks of the parenting conference that discusses a little homeschooling and the secular conference that doesn't seem to want to address academics much at all?

 

Or is it possible that some of the big conventions are looking to the big vendors as their customers and the convention goers as the product that they are delivering?

 

 

I don't know, but I think this is a really good question.

 

I honestly believe that while the majority of homeschoolers may be Christian, I don't think the majority fall into the narrow ridge of fundamentalism that seems to be in charge of many conventions.

 

The main WI homeschooling convention falls into this category, which is why I've gone to conventions in other states. I know a ton of homeschooling families and maybe only 5 went to the WI convention. A few others went out of state, but the vast majority just stay home.

 

Funny story: my cousin-in-law and her husband went to the WI convention a couple of years back. I guess when they brought a beer from the bar to one of the evening sessions, it wasn't looked upon too happily. :lol:

Edited March 1, 2011 by Heather in WI

[Carol in Cal.]

Seems to me that once homeschooling became 'mainstream' and the big issue was no longer, "Can we do this, and is it legal?" then other issues and agendas took over. People had to have strong convictions to homeschool against the mainstream early on--religious views, political views, social views, specific family needs--whatever they were, only people who felt VERY strongly about them could risk the truancy and CPS possible downsides to do it.

 

So when it became normal and less risky, these strong people started to talk more about the drop dead reasons why they went to the mat to do this. So far, very reasonable.

 

But then others who heard this started to think of their favorite reasons as the ONLY good reasons, and to organize around those reasons rather than around homeschooling in general.

 

Plus, in parallel, political and religious organizing possibilities as well as significant opportunities for profit became apparent, and led to what really amounts to takeovers of big parts of the homeschooling movement by those with political, religious, or profit motives. It's not that hard to do this, either, because earlier inclusive idealists just really didn't want to fight among themselves, and later idealists with a narrower focus/agenda didn't feel that broad kinship with the earlier ones. I think that that is really a shame, but I understand it.

 

The solution, obviously, is to have the classical homeschooling movement take over all of the conferences. ....

 

 

 

 

 

(kidding)

[SweetBean]

:001_huh:

 

Sure prayer can help with algebra or anythng else.

 

But if I tell you my kid is having a problem with say, polynomial equations or that the math isn't "sticking" and I need to find a program that clicks for him, do you have suggestions? And you respond with, "You should pray about that." or "Well just focus on his character development bc that is what matters most."

 

Yeahhhh. Even though I agree with you, uhuh, no, that was not even a little bit helpful to our algebra situation.

Wow! Are you really getting that at your convention? Maybe this is a more of a regional issue.

[2squared]

I am pretty frustrated with our MN Christian conference. Sonya Schaffer (sp?) from Simply Charlotte Mason is speaking, and I really, really want to hear her speak. I read the conference rules, though, and nursing moms are strongly encouraged to only nurse in a designated area, no strollers are allowed in the conference, and children are not to make any noises in the presentation rooms. :glare: So they obviously aren't encouraging moms with infants to attend. However, they are offering free entrance to families with oldest dc preschool/K aged. Ummmm...what percentage of those families have infants? Probably a lot.

 

I'm sticking with my wonderful MN Catholic homeschooling conference where everyone is either pregnant or accompanied by a nursing child. :lol: Not only do I feel wanted, but I fit in.

[Paintedlady]

Of course, I just noticed today that Gothard has a booth in Cinci, and the Duggars are speaking. While this conference started out pretty classical and academic, they seem to be adding a lot of more conservative Christian speakers each year.

 

While I am attending the Cinci conference for the first time this year, and mainly b/c of academics, the conservative Christian speakers are the icing on the cake for me. I am a very conservative Christian and love conventions that cater to us, but I also believe in a rigorous classical education. Sometimes the two do meet. :tongue_smilie:

[Paintedlady]

I have NEVER in 10 years of being a vary active home schooler here have I seen a survey or anything via emails or any other venue asking homeschoolers what or who they would like to see or hear at conventions, not for speakers or vendors. So apparently a small number of people on a board make the decision. And I have been twice, no surveys were given at the event either.

 

Our conservative Christian convention in IL always has a survey at the end of the conference, asking for feedback. They always encourage everyone to fill one out to make the convention better reflect what the attendees would like more or less of. Maybe make a suggestion at your local convention to do the same?

[gardening momma]

I was concerned last year with the dramatic increase in relaxed and "just believe, don't think" speakers. Especially considering the first year we listened to talks on the dangers of anti-intellectualism... :001_smile:

I didn't notice that last year. It may come down to the sessions chosen. I went to talks on classical education, learning Latin/importance of Latin, notebooking, etc. Practical stuff. I don't think I ended up with any fluff sessions. There were some I liked less than others, and will not go to again, including some speakers, regardless of their topic.

[angela in ohio]

I didn't notice that last year. It may come down to the sessions chosen. I went to talks on classical education, learning Latin/importance of Latin, notebooking, etc. Practical stuff. I don't think I ended up with any fluff sessions. There were some I liked less than others, and will not go to again, including some speakers, regardless of their topic.

 

The only one I was in like that was a high school one (from a much touted high school expert.) I only went to a few MCT and Tom Clark talks, plus the one high school one. Part of that is because of repeat talks that I've already seen (Perrin, Pudewa, etc.,) and part of it because so many didn't interest me. I'm more talking about the new people they invited to speak. There wasn't much new, besides MCT, for the academic or classical crowd.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The only one I was in like that was a high school one (from a much touted high school expert.) I only went to a few MCT and Tom Clark talks, plus the one high school one. Part of that is because of repeat talks that I've already seen (Perrin, Pudewa, etc.,) and part of it because so many didn't interest me. I'm more talking about the new people they invited to speak. There wasn't much new, besides MCT, for the academic or classical crowd.

 

I wonder if they figure that the average attendee only comes every couple of years.

[LND1218]

:confused1: Forgive me, but I'm confused as to how these are opposites. Wouldn't the opposite of religious worldview/conservative political POV be liberal atheists? Am I misunderstanding? If you are in inclusive, aren't you allowing all points of view? Or are they meaning the vendors must be neutral?

 

Sorry I couldn't figure out how to phrase that. One is very religious although they do allow non religious vendors and anyone is welcome to come. The other is not religious and while they do allow religious vendors they are asked to keep their talks and such non religious. Yes vendors are asked to stay neutral unless specifically asked. I have worked at both and they are bothi nice, but they each attract a different crowd.

 

While that's not technically opposite, I meant one is religious and one isn't.