tiffanieh Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I see that many of you rave about CLE Math, but I was wondering if there are any downsides to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3byzaz Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I have been using it for years. I haven't found any. I guess if the child doesn't like it or needs just a mastery program, it would not work as well. I found that with mastery programs, my boys forgot so much. You can cross off with CLE if it's something they have mastered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4given Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I see that many of you rave about CLE Math, but I was wondering if there are any downsides to it? My dd uses CLE Math. A primary complaint my dd has to do with presentation - she would like more color. Repetition - can be a positive or negative depending on your needs. These are the 1st ones that come to mind. I'm sure others will have more and probably "deeper" thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 For my little guy, the downside is it is just too much. He is in level 100. I fix that by either spreading the lesson over 2 days, crossing out problems, or doing a lot of the writing for him while he uses manipulatives to find answers. I find CLE a perfect fit for my older kids who can handle the actual writing. Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I tried it with my 3rd grader and for us it wasn't a great fit. We've used Horizons for years and I found CLE to not be rigorous enough. I know - it's all perspective. I thought it had too few problems - though there were more pages. When I look at elementary math I want LOTS of problems, LOTS of repetition. I think there scope and sequence is really solid and they do a great job introducing metrics. I think in the end for us - we had a system that wasn't broke and didn't need fixing! I would recommend that others look into it and try a few Light Units (give it at least 2 before you decide). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 My kids - even my mathy child - found CLE to use the "drill and kill" method. My son would miss up to 20 problems a lesson because he literally just got tired of doing the same math stuff over.and over.and over. AND - up through 4th grade, finishing a lesson wasn't enough...then they had to do the speed drills and flash cards. We are now using Singapore and wow...what a difference. My kids love math again. I also found, after going to Singapore, that my older son did have some gaps in the stuff he had learned from CLE. It may have been partly caused by the "drill and kill" that he hated and, then again, it could have been something else (like the spiral nature of CLE). Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Well... I just dropped it for my 5th grade ds. It was our first yr. using it and we finished through book 6. He just wasn't getting the material that quickly. He did great last yr. with TT 4 and I don't know why I felt the need to switch. I've moved him to TT6 and he is so much happier. No more crying or math taking 2 hrs. to finish. Perhaps if I'd placed him in CLE 4th grade math, it would have worked, but for us it was too much of a jump. If you're child isn't mathy, I'd definitely have them do the placement test first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaniceO Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 My kids complain that there's not enough space to write in. I point out that they could be having to write out each problem, like with Saxon, and that usually stops the complaining. I'm trying to teach them not to be so sloppy, but it's a slow process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeinfl Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Well, for us, I supplement because when introducing something new, sometimes my son needs more problems, not less. Sometimes I put CLE down and just work on a concentrated topic for a bit, then pick CLE back up later. We may use something like MUS on the side, but that's just us. We do the flashcards orally where I've divided them into about 3-5 days and we do one set a day. We don't do the speed drills as my son pretty much knows his facts cold, and this would be too much for my writing phobic son, and yet it still works out just fine for us as he does very well in his tests. We also tried a mastery program at the beginning of the year only to find out that once the old topic was not being practiced, it was quickly forgotten. So we are back to CLE, and we are about a year behind, but we don't focus on that anymore. Instead we focus on a set of skills that need to be learned. HTH, Dee :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I see that many of you rave about CLE Math, but I was wondering if there are any downsides to it? What are your goals in terms of math education? If you want to read a work which does a "compare and contrast" between a "procedurally based" approach to teaching mathematics vs the sort of "conceptual mathematics" taught in Asia (and in programs like Singapore, Right Start, Miquon, Math Mammoth, and MEP) I would suggest reading Liping Ma's "Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics". Then you could decide with some perspective if a "procedurally based" math program is really in the interests of your child (or not). Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 What are your goals in terms of math education? If you want to read a work which does a "compare and contrast" between a "procedurally based" approach to teaching mathematics vs the sort of "conceptual mathematics" taught in Asia (and in programs like Singapore, Right Start, Miquon, Math Mammoth, and MEP) I would suggest reading Liping Ma's "Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics". Then you could decide with some perspective if a "procedurally based" math program is really in the interests of your child (or not). Bill CLE works for one dd because she absolutely needs "drill and kill." A week off of math and she forgets everything. So for us, this negative is a positive. I REALLY wish there were a conceptually based math program like the ones mentioned above with daily review of previously learned concepts incorporated into the program for moms like me with multiple dc, time pressure, and a tendency toward disorganization.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4given Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 What are your goals in terms of math education? If you want to read a work which does a "compare and contrast" between a "procedurally based" approach to teaching mathematics vs the sort of "conceptual mathematics" taught in Asia (and in programs like Singapore, Right Start, Miquon, Math Mammoth, and MEP) I would suggest reading Liping Ma's "Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics". Then you could decide with some perspective if a "procedurally based" math program is really in the interests of your child (or not). Bill I was hoping Bill would respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiffanieh Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 What are your goals in terms of math education? If you want to read a work which does a "compare and contrast" between a "procedurally based" approach to teaching mathematics vs the sort of "conceptual mathematics" taught in Asia (and in programs like Singapore, Right Start, Miquon, Math Mammoth, and MEP) I would suggest reading Liping Ma's "Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics". Then you could decide with some perspective if a "procedurally based" math program is really in the interests of your child (or not). Bill Bill, you obviously are FOR conceptual math :) I have been lamenting over Singapore math, but it scares me. I have a child that is GREAT in rote memory and doing math, but not that great with inferencing, drawing conclusions or word problems. Because of this I'm fearful that we would end up in tears over Singapore. Do you have any wisdom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Bill, you obviously are FOR conceptual math :) I have been lamenting over Singapore math, but it scares me. I have a child that is GREAT in rote memory and doing math, but not that great with inferencing, drawing conclusions or word problems. Because of this I'm fearful that we would end up in tears over Singapore. Do you have any wisdom? Well, to reiterate, I would read the Liping Ma book just to have a sense of the differences between the two forms of math education. Then you need to decide if the goal of a *different* sort of math education is worth going against your perception of your child's propensities. The skills you speak of that he seems to "lack" are skills that can be fostered through education. We have difficult judgement calls to make as parents. Children are different. There is no "one size fits all" that will work for everyone. But we are also living in the 21st Century and not in an agrarian past. Our children will be competing in a global economy whether we like it or not and around the world other nations are eating our lunch. Especially in math. So is a program like CLE enough for this age? That is the call you need to make. Bill Edited February 28, 2011 by Spy Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) I use Rod and Staff for kill and drill and Singapore for critical thinking about concepts. I am not a fan of CLE because it doesn't have enough word problems and also teaches more of a rote perspective. That's great for the young years, however, for us, by the end of third grade or early 4th, dh (math major) wanted to see the ability to think deeply about the process and not just memorize and apply a formula. We are a heavily science and math oriented in this house so we feel it's important to understand why a formula works or alternatives to solving a problem in a typical algebraic fashion. That said, dd had Saxon and then Prentice Hall Middle school math followed by Lial's and Jacob's for high school. I didn't know about Singapore and fortunately, dd is a natural born thinker and is fascinated by HOW things work. She could run with her dad's explanations without any drill on it. Ds #1 did not have enough Singapore (again, came to it a little later than ideal) and so he needs more help with critical thinking about math. But, we are getting there. The middle ds has had enough Singapore to be in good shape, though we don't do nearly all of the problems because again, he's natural born to it. The youngest boy will have the most. He loves the challenging word problems book! I think that if you present an upbeat spirit when introducing the material and then walk the child step by step through the process - don't expect independence if you didn't start out with Singapore - and stick right with your student through each and every problem, smiling a lot, patting on the back a lot, and saying, "You know _______ you do not have to conquer this kind of thinking in a day, a week, a month, or even in one year. It's different and it is going to be different for us. That's okay. We'll just keep plugging away at it together. Don't fret about grades, you'll eventually get it!", then keep a kill and drill book around for some quick problems that your child will feel confident doing, you'll be okay. Study each lesson before you present it so that you feel confident. I consider Singapore to be one of many ways to teach critical thinking skills. Diagramming is also one, as well as learning to read music and play an instrument, certain types of drawing skills such as practical drafting, logic books and courses, etc. all of these things help a child think "how does this work, why does this work". So every family needs to decide what is the best method of making sure their children ultimately reach that point of seeing beyond the rote and into the application. The main thing is to define your goal and then plan for how to attain that goal. Faith Edited February 28, 2011 by FaithManor Never type when you have a headache & the no coffee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiffanieh Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Well, I went ahead and bit the bullet and got 2A for my son (we are finishing up his 3rd grade year) for math, standards edition, workbook, textbook and HIG. I figure we can at least start going over this in the next few weeks as we are finishing up his MUS book. If it goes well then hopefully we can stick with it! Fingers crossed!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Well, I went ahead and bit the bullet and got 2A for my son (we are finishing up his 3rd grade year) for math, standards edition, workbook, textbook and HIG. I figure we can at least start going over this in the next few weeks as we are finishing up his MUS book. If it goes well then hopefully we can stick with it! Fingers crossed!!! Best wishes to you! You can use you son's talent for memory by working him through the re-grouping strategies he will encounter with him explaining his strategies (for example how he is re-grouping to make 10s) so he gets a hybrid between working the re-grouping strategy (alone) and an automaticity when it comes to those math facts. His strengths will help him. As you get doing you may consider adding the IP books (from the US Edition series) especially if he is flying through the regular materials and it seems "easy" and the Challenging Word problem series, as there are great for "review" and for incrementally building up the ability to do the famous Singapore word problem with a powerful method. If I can be of future help let me know. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrightmom Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I REALLY wish there were a conceptually based math program like the ones mentioned above with daily review of previously learned concepts incorporated into the program for moms like me with multiple dc, time pressure, and a tendency toward disorganization.:D :iagree: I need Math Mammoth in a CLE format. Really really need that here. I'm struggling . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 One additional add. Playing "math games" has been a surprisingly effective tool in our home. Even if my little-man is not chomping at the bit to "do math" he is almost always enthusiastic about playing a game. And for him they really work the fast retention skills than "drill" might, but without the "anxiety." The HIGs have some games, and we have really enjoyed the Right Start game set. Real life also presents wonderful opportunities for impromptu "math lessons." I think some of our best lessons have happened while grocery shopping. If we are purchasing 3 apples and 6 potatoes, how many MORE potatoes do we have than apples? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aconnolley Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 :iagree: I need Math Mammoth in a CLE format. Really really need that here. I'm struggling . . . I was thinking that exact thing today. We are using MM this year. I love how much the kids are learning, but by staying on one subject for so long I worry that they are forgetting previous concepts. We are doing the cummultive reviews, but I worry that it isn't enough. And if I add more review days, we will never finish 4th grade. :tongue_smilie: I think that my son really does better with a spiral method. Actually, I think that my ideal curriculum would be TT with all of the conceptual teaching and challenge found in MM. :lol: Somebody come up with that and I will buy it. Ok? :001_smile: Angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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