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NCAA muddying my waters!


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I'm such a wreck about planning 8th grade and then high school. I know it will all be fine. I was feeling much better after identifying some great online classes.

 

But then I started educating myself about NCAA eligibility. I don't necessarily anticipate either of my boys getting college sports scholarships. However, I could see both of them wanting to play on their teams - not necessary division I. We have talked about how their sports accomplishments could help them to get into a Div3 school that is academically competitive.

 

Anyway, it's sort of a quagmire, isn't it? I guess my question of the night is this: If I use a course with a teacher online - say a composition class - and I know it's not approved for eligibility, may I include it in my "English I" class taught by Mom?

 

In other words, could my English I class be listed for credit and grade and then include details like we used XYZ text, completed certain chapters, read certain novels, and participated in an online composition class with this teacher. So it's my class - English - but she's teaching the writing part?

Edited by Danestress
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It's so unreliable!

 

I just hate this idea that I have to wait until my sons are done with their junior year and then submit their records for preliminary review, find out what courses get bounced back, take them again their senior year, and not know until after they have already graduated from high school whether they are "eligible." I can't live with that uncertainty if there is a more certain option.

 

But the other problem with the website is that it's clear they have decertified certain correspondence classes. But if I want to use a correspondence class under my own homeschool umbrella, I guess I am wondering if there is a way I can make that *my class* on the transcript. If my children take Biology at the Potter's school and use Apologia Bio to do that, can I list "Biology" on the transcript, the text used, and not mention Potters if I have in good faith also reviewed all the tests and projects and give them a grade? It seems like it's almost better with NCAA to just homeschool, and it's when you do online classes that you get in trouble.

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I would *think* that all you need to do is list the class taken, text used, and, if necessary, copy the table of contents. If your dss have notebooks that show lab reports, study questions, and tests, that would be more proof of completion and mastery in the unlikely scenario that they want such detailed evidence.

 

I wouldn't specify that it's an on-line course; it seems unnecessary and I don't plan to do it. Just list it on the transcript as "Biology".

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I am so glad you posted this as I am in the process of planning 8th grade as well and then tentatively outlining high school. I wasn't even thinking about NCAA requirements yet. I would tell you not to count your guys out with regards to swimming scholarships. We have seen some fairly interesting rides (usually partial) to some of the high school swim team kids who were decent students and interested in swimming in college. These kid are usually ex-club swimmers who swim well enough to be varsity swimmers and who have shown a level of commitment to their academics and their sport. Just a thought. I will be interested to read the other feedback you get.

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Go here http://web1.ncaa.org/ECWR2/NCAA_EMS/NCAA.html

 

Click on "enter here" for student athletes

 

Click on "resources"

 

Click on "US Students" (not homeschool students)

 

Click on List of Courses

 

If you don't have a school code, you can input the location and name of the school and find a list of their "preapproved" core classes. They have unapproved a few online schools recently, like BYU and American University. If you google something like "NCAA decertify online" you will read a bit about it.

 

But my understanding is (and granted, I didn't know there was such a thing as an NCAA eligibility rule until yesterday, so I am on the learning curve) that if you homeschool and have your own "Mom made" classes, you submit the transcript for approval. It almost seems "safer" do do your own classes than to do an online class that is not pre-approved.

 

Again, though, I am no expert.

 

 

So I am looking at the NCAA site that was linked, didn't register though, just browsing around but I don't see where it lists classes/schools/courses that are NOT considered eligible. Where is that information?
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I would *think* that all you need to do is list the class taken, text used, and, if necessary, copy the table of contents. If your dss have notebooks that show lab reports, study questions, and tests, that would be more proof of completion and mastery in the unlikely scenario that they want such detailed evidence.

 

I wouldn't specify that it's an on-line course; it seems unnecessary and I don't plan to do it. Just list it on the transcript as "Biology".

 

I think maybe the trick is to get a mixture of classes under my "school" even if they actually have an online element, and to use "official" online classes that the NCAA has already approved.

 

The only problem is, they can decertify if they feel like it:(

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I just hate this idea that I have to wait until my sons are done with their junior year and then submit their records for preliminary review, find out what courses get bounced back, take them again their senior year, and not know until after they have already graduated from high school whether they are "eligible." I can't live with that uncertainty if there is a more certain option.

I hear you.

 

Last year, I called the NCAA several times to discuss 9th grade. Frankly, I was absolutely terrified that I would mess up ds's chance of college sports. I seriously considered using Clonlara (to the tune of $1000/yr) in order to not worry about it. We discussed at length how they tell if a class is high school level or not. After several conversations with the homeschool rep, I felt comfortable enough to go it alone.

 

When I look at the homeschool information, all I see is that they really, really, really want to see a textbook, and it must be a high school level textbook. It drives me batty that ds could attend the crappy public high school here and the NCAA would not have one question about his transcript. Because I am giving ds a better education, I will be scrutinized.

 

I discussed LLfLOTR with them. There is no textbook. How do they tell if it is high school level or not? They look at the website. The website says 7th-12th. How do they know I am presenting it at the high school level? I am following the high school syllabus. I will also keep all the quizzes, tests, papers ds completes. I'll pay someone who knows what they are doing to give ds a grade on those papers.

 

My son takes a history class that has no textbook. The teacher considers 7th-8th-9th junior high. Those 2 things made me very nervous. I sent the homeschool rep many things: the website for the class, syllabus, class notes, tests, writing assignments. I got an email confirmation that it should be fine.

 

I thought about signing my son up for a Physical Science class that used 2 texts: one junior high level and one high school level. A certain percent of the class was based on each text. I can't remember exactly what it was, but the junior high text was <50%. I decided to enroll him in a Physics class instead. There is no question now. The Physics class he is taking does not really use a textbook. It is based on Giancolli's Physics, but the textbook is not required.

 

When I eventually have to fill out those forms, I will be extraordinarily tempted to put down a textbook for both history and science just to make it easier for all of us.

 

I strongly encourage you to call the NCAA and have lengthy conversations with them. It is important for them to understand that we cannot wait until junior or senior year to learn that we have inadvertently not given our children an appropriate high school education.

 

I have been told that they have lists of "approved" homeschool material, but they wouldn't share it with me when I asked.

 

Phone Number: 877/262-1492 or 317/223-0700. Follow the prompts or request to be directed to the home school department. Kevin Taylor was the person I spoke with.

 

HTH!

Edited by Sue in St Pete
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I would tell you not to count your guys out with regards to swimming scholarships.

 

I try to de-emphasize scholarships both for sports and academics - and music. I just don't want my children or me to think that we are in these activities for the money, because it's so unrealistic. But of course there are opportunities out there and I don't mean to be betting against my own boys, lol. Thanks for the positive encouragement.

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I am so glad you posted this as I am in the process of planning 8th grade as well and then tentatively outlining high school. I wasn't even thinking about NCAA requirements yet. I would tell you not to count your guys out with regards to swimming scholarships. We have seen some fairly interesting rides (usually partial) to some of the high school swim team kids who were decent students and interested in swimming in college. These kid are usually ex-club swimmers who swim well enough to be varsity swimmers and who have shown a level of commitment to their academics and their sport. Just a thought. I will be interested to read the other feedback you get.

__________________

 

Would you a list of schools that gave swimmers even a partial scholarship?

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My kids have been club swimmers for and years and I have seen many swimmers graduate and go on to college. I have also seen many club and high school coaches encourage swimmers (and parents) to "count" on a scholarship. Therefore, when we stared looking at schools, we were quite shocked. Having always read that DI schools were able to give 9.9 scholarships for men, we compiled a list of DI schools where my son would be near the top for times. These were not big SEC, ACC type schools, but mid-majors with no football. While they can award 9.9, many smaller programs (i.e., no football) are not fully funded and most we talked with had 2-4 awards to use across their entire roster. And not all DI schools with swimming offer athletic money. For instance, Bucknell only awards basketball scholarships. I do not know anything about the opportunities at DII schools. DIII and Ivies cannot award any athletic money. NAIA is another option if one of these smaller schools is a fit for your student.

 

We have encouraged our boys to swim for the love of the sport. One chose a school that does not give athletic money. Younger one is still deciding.

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Do you think the swimming helped in the college application process? I don't really care about the scholarships. I would be happy, though, to think that even if Bucknell (from your example) doesn't give money, that maybe they accept a student with a swimming record that would benefit their swim team that would otherwise be in the middle of the academic pack for them. Is that the case?

 

ETA: "I don't care about the scholarships" is not entirely accurate, lol. Sounds like I am rolling in dough! I just mean to say that I am not encouraging sports as a way to make money. I am pretty sure that even if my child got a partial college scholarship, we would have come out better financially to stay home, spend no money on sports, and invest the money we would otherwise spend.

Edited by Danestress
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It depends on the school and the sport. For instance, a swimmer I know visited MIT and was told coach had no pull. I have heard that coaches in other sports at MIT have some pull. I think in the large majority of cases, it can help tremendously. My sons were told by some schools to let the coach know when app was sent and he would flag it, other coaches asked to have app sent to them to bring to Admissions and some said they had no influence at all.

 

It can be pretty overwhelming. Let me know if you have questions.

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And I readily admit that it is not much, but there are a couple of things I've always heard as lore but have recently confirmed with reliable sources:

1. Even schools with no athletic scholarship money, i.e., DIII, may give their athletes merit scholarships. A DIII soccer coach, who is a very good friend-of-a-friend, has 5 merit scholarships more or less at his disposal for each entering class. If a soccer player meets certain minimum academic requirements, he can direct that the player receive the merit scholarship. I am sure this is something that varies from school to school, but this coach was very forthright about it--he told a bunch of athletes' parents.

 

2. A random Google search rently turned up a long--practically novel-length--blog about a father whose son played football for Columbia. He goes into a lot of detail about how the Ivies recruit kids, and in the case of the Ivies, the coaches definitely have pull on getting his kids admitted. The son of the article's author had maybe a 3.5 GPA--not one that would have gotten him admitted to an Ivy under normal circumstances.

 

Here is his article: http://www.johntreed.com/matsdad.html

 

If your child has any interest in competing for one of the Ivies in any sport, this article has a wealth of information on what to say, what not to say (don't ask about financial aid was one piece of advice), whether it makes a difference to let a coach know that his school is your first choice, when to commit, etc.

 

Terri

Edited by plansrme
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