Is Public school curricula so advanced nowdays?

[blessedmom3]

I am sending my dc to PS. One of my sons, is only two weeks short of PS deadline for that grade , so normally he should go in 1st grade . However, I requested him to be placed in 2nd grade because he is 7 1/2 and he can read at 7th -8th grade (less in comprehension) and is doing right now CLE math 300 + Singapore A 3rd . So I thought 2nd would be easy for him . The principal said they will do a reading & math assessment and maybe they will put him in 2nd... Guess what ?

 

I though both CLE &Singapore were ahead PS ... The questions were not that easy . Typical to what we were doing in 2nd grade .He did them ok , but he say it wasn't as easy as he thought !

 

Things like :

Find the missing number :

In Out

49

42 35

28 21

-----------------

 

X- 4 = 6+2 (isn't it kind of prealgebra?? ) I haven't learned these things before I was 9-10 yrs old !!

 

 

 

In reading , the teacher said although he read well, he did not give "elaborate" answers about what he read . What did she expect ? He is only 7! But he did answer all her comprehension questions all right . He read all Sonlight 2 and most of 3 readers and he retold me the stories so I know he comprehends...

 

In writing, he has to write about the best day of his life and the teacher was looking for the correct spelling, punctuation , beginning/ending, indent,adjectives, etc

 

 

Anyway , if you think you will ever put your dc to school , I'd rec. to research what they expect ,... I was surprised.

[momto4kings]

I wonder how many of the school's current students can pass that same test your son was given. Not many, I would guess.

[Renee in NC]

I don't think it is more advanced, just a different approach.

 

Yes, the dc do math like that, but there is very little focus on math facts and accurate computation. The "concepts" are more important than computation. However, I have a ds in the 6th grade in ps and I can tell you that it isn't "advanced" at that end as they are still working on the same kind of thing.:tongue_smilie:

 

Yes, they expect the students to give as many details as possible about a story. This isn't assessing comprehension so much as short-term memory. (This was a difficult transition for my dd who had been taught to narrate TWTM way.)

 

Can he write multiple sentences with detail (even if the words aren't spelled correctly?) That is another focus.

 

I think by focusing on the advanced that they miss the basics, which are the foundation of future learning.

[Veritaserum]

I wonder how many of the school's current students can pass that same test your son was given. Not many, I would guess.

 

:iagree:

[Mom22ns]

My kids did that kind of math in ps at that age. When I tested them in homeschool curriculum they it varied from them going two years ahead to a year behind grade level. Each program uses its own scope and sequence. Switching is rarely easy or a straight shot.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

My ds turned 8 in 2 nd grade with a December birthday and 9 and 3rd grade. I think this is the right age since I did not red shirt him:) Will he stay 7 in this current grade or turn 8? If he is staying 7 then I would not hesitate to have him in first especially if it will help him get up to speed. Maybe he is just not used to their style of questions? I agree the writing paragraphs for 2nd grade might be a little much until the end of 2nd grade from my experience with ds in a K12 cyber school and currently a private school. Even then he just started the concept of word webs and rudimentary paragraphs at the end of 2nd grade. Now 3rd grade is different:)

[Bee]

consistantly gets a grade of "progressing" on her reading "recalls facts and details from reading" but she can answer all the questions in the Mosdos reading text we have at home. And part of the grade for every subject on her report card is "demonstrates effort and pride in work". She also gets graded on "characteristics of a learner". The grades are listed as "exceptional", "successful", "progressing", and "needs improvement". I see lots of time and effort in school being spent on math, a little less on reading and writing, much less on grammar, history and science. It's not unusual for dd to bring home math homework with a problem or two of some concept that they haven't been taught yet in class.

[EKS]

Just remember that the kids in that school, if they can solve these types of problems, have had specific instruction in how to do so as well as practice to back it up. There is a huge difference between that and seeing these problems for the first time and figuring out how to do them on the spot.

[Tap]

I used to help facilitate our states required testing. There were great math students, using different curricula, who when faced with the public school way of math, would fail the tests or have absolutely no way of understanding what the question asked. It wasn't that the kids were incapable of doing the math, they were

1. asking questions using different vocabulary,

2. looking for a different 'style' of answer (ie fraction vs. decimal)

3. looking for the process of deriving the answer to be illustrated-not just the math shown

4. asking a question that wouldn't make sense unless you used the same program

5. testing harder than the students actually perform at.

 

I am not saying this to sway your decision any way but this is our story. Ds16 was in public school until 2nd grade. He has a late summer b-day so before I enrolled him I had him tested by the school psychiatrist. He tested academically well ahead of other Kers, and at level socially too. The tester said we could make the choice and he would support us either way. We opted for him to go that year (on schedule for him, but we could have waited a year).

 

By placing him in, we saw a few things become apparent for ds. While ds was never a athlete at heart, being the youngest made this even more apparent. He was not as physically adept as other kids and adding the age difference really made him struggle on grade based teams. Emotionally ds was a strong kid, but he seemed to have interests more like the kids in the grade below him. He wasn't immature....but his interests were. Being the young one in his classes, set him up for that path, and we never really questioned it. Now, I do.

 

When this became more one sided, was in middle school*. In middle school, he would have been moved into the more advanced classes anyways. BUT, I think that this age difference did lead to some 'maturity of understanding' on some topics. He was young, had young preferences, yet was in advanced classes. In 8th grade he was in 3 full on high school classes, 9th grade, he was taking classes with jrs/srs. There were times that he was a 12-13yo with 18yos, and with material designed for 17-18yo students. While he got these credits earlier than his peers, I think he may have got more out of the classes if he would have taken them at the appropriate grade/age. We left the our public school/home school hybrid at this time because he had already taken all but 2 of the high school credit classes they had to offer him...in 10th grade. While ds has always been tall, the physical differences were very obvious by being almost a full year younger than his peers too.

 

In many ways, I wish I would have not allowed him to advance so fast, but instead filled in more with material that is not considered traditional topics. Maybe adding a year of Oceanography for instance instead of staying the course set up so young, of early graduation.

 

Now that he is in college, again, I see the 'maturity of understanding' issue coming up a bit more. He doesn't have the life experiences that his peers do, and sometimes I think that hurts as much, as his early acceptance to college would seem to advance him.

 

For us it was a trade off, way back when.....either the class was going to be more academically appropriate or socially. Since we made the move early on, we never pulled him back. I didn't repeat this same pattern with dd12 who has an early fall bday. She was ready academically, but I didn't take the chance to accelerate her a grade when I could have. At 6th grade, I am glad I didn't.

 

*Grade 1-3 public school, 4 private, 5-9 homeschool/public hybrid, 10 public, 11- highschool/college.

[Lolly]

Just remember that the kids in that school, if they can solve these types of problems, have had specific instruction in how to do so as well as practice to back it up. There is a huge difference between that and seeing these problems for the first time and figuring out how to do them on the spot.

 

:iagree:

[jennynd]

I

 

 

In reading , the teacher said although he read well, he did not give "elaborate" answers about what he read . What did she expect ? He is only 7! But he did answer all her comprehension questions all right . He read all Sonlight 2 and most of 3 readers and he retold me the stories so I know he comprehends...

.

 

They might mean retelling stories?? Ds in 1st grade was asked to "summarize" the story in their own words, but teacher also said not too many can do so.(for 1st grader)

[JenniferB]

Last summer I did a history club in my home with homeschool kids and public school kids. The public school kids could write circles, no whirlwinds, around most of the homeschool kids. One of the homeschool kids, who I formerly considered a "gifted" writer, was at about the same level as the public school kids who were one year younger than her.

 

I'm guessing that at least with writing and in my school district the public school kids are getting some rigorous instruction, and that the teachers have some high standards.

 

I must edit to add a "but." But, the homeschool kids stayed in the history club for the whole summer while the public school kids quit because it was too hard, either to obtain the books from the library, or do the reading, or just too hard in general. So, there you have it, my unscientific comparison.

Edited February 23, 2011 by JenniferB

[SailorMom]

As an aside - other than academics, you may want to consider other factors in grade placement...

 

Maturity (is he typical for a 7.5, or does he act more mature?)

Size - are the other boys gong to think he's tiny and possibly tease him?

Attention span... young boys are young boys

High school - when he is a Freshman - is he going to be the smallest kid in the locker room??? Yes.... it matters.

[fairfarmhand]

As an aside - other than academics, you may want to consider other factors in grade placement...

 

Maturity (is he typical for a 7.5, or does he act more mature?)

Size - are the other boys gong to think he's tiny and possibly tease him?

Attention span... young boys are young boys

High school - when he is a Freshman - is he going to be the smallest kid in the locker room??? Yes.... it matters.

:iagree:

 

middle school is ROUGH for late bloomers. Adding in a year behind any way....

 

just something to think about....

[Laurie4b]

A lot of the issue was probably that your ds was unfamiliar with the format. I tutor low-income kids and sometimes 3 college graduates (plus grad school) will sit around discussing what the school wants from a given question. If you had time to familarize your ds with the format and some specific tasks, he would have done fine.

[MIch elle]

Since my younger ds is attending school for the first time (gr. 8) and I am no longer homeschooling, I've been substitute teaching k-12 since September. I'm mostly in grades 3-5 (largest population & aids needed).

 

YES, it IS advanced! Most 2nd graders can read fluently at what I would consider grade 4 level at the least. Most 4th graders know all their multiplication/division tables VERY well. The writing is advanced but the spelling is still poor in grades 3-5 (as I would expect).

 

Science and math are MUCH more advanced in middle and high school than in the past.

[Stacy in NJ]

more along the lines of inference than most homeschool cirricula requires. TWTM places no emphasis on inference, yet this is probably the single most important skill on the NJ ASK Language Arts tests (state test) at all levels. Inference means picking up on meaning within text that's not necessarily directly stated. While the schools focus on this and explicitly teach it early, I don't know that any homeschool kid would have any difficultly developing inference ability once taught specifically. None of the homeschool cirricula I've seen even address it. SWB doesn't address it until Rhetoric stage.

[FairProspects]

Last summer I did a history club in my home with homeschool kids and public school kids. The public school kids could write circles, no whirlwinds, around most of the homeschool kids. One of the homeschool kids, who I formerly considered a "gifted" writer, was at about the same level as the public school kids who were one year younger than her.

 

 

Are they just writing more? Or is it actually good quality writing? Were they in grades 1-4 or higher?

 

I ask because the PS kids here can write a load, but most of it is utter garbage with made up spelling and poor grammar. Writing the WTM way will put kids behind in output in grades 1-4, but in logic stage the outputs equal, and kids taught the classical way will have much higher quality writing. The differences are more obvious the higher in education you go.

[Spy Car]

Good public schools are doing a lot more than than one would guess from reading the stereotypical characterizations than are often made on this forum.

 

Many people are absolutely kidding themselves.

 

Bill

[EKS]

Good public schools are doing a lot more than than one would guess from reading the stereotypical characterizations than are often made on this forum.

 

Many people are absolutely kidding themselves.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

[LibraryLover]

Good public schools are doing a lot more than than one would guess from reading the stereotypical characterizations than are often made on this forum.

 

Many people are absolutely kidding themselves.

 

Bill

 

The divide between excellent schools and terrible schools is great, and too many people have access to the worst schools. That's a given.

 

However, I sometimes get a little crazy when people say "No matter what you're doing at home, it's more than the schools are doing.' I've been a hser for a very long time, seen it all, and have experienced schools through my sons. I have to bite my tongue sometimes when hsers says these things, because some people are kidding themselves.

[Veritaserum]

Good public schools are doing a lot more than than one would guess from reading the stereotypical characterizations than are often made on this forum.

 

Many people are absolutely kidding themselves.

 

Bill

 

That's very likely to be true. I feel confident that my kids are getting as good or better a foundation as our local public school. If I didn't think I could do as well or better, I'd have them attend public school. Better academics is why we homeschool. If my kids could get a better education at school, they'd go. I hope I can be honest with myself if school ever becomes the better option. :)

 

My MIL is a teacher and she lives with us, so I have someone to help me compare what I'm doing with what the schools are doing. Her biggest complaint is the huge focus on preparing for tests. She says it gets in the way of actually teaching necessary skills. I am glad that that is not a problem I have to deal with at home. I also love the freedom to tweak and tailor to meet the needs of my kids. :)

[Spy Car]

The divide between excellent schools and terrible schools is great, and too many people have access to the worst schools. That's a given.

 

However, I sometimes get a little crazy when people say "No matter what you're doing at home, it's more than the schools are doing.' I've been a hser for a very long time, seen it all, and have experienced schools through my sons. I have to bite my tongue sometimes when hsers says these things, because some people are kidding themselves.

 

 

Believe me, I'm in awe of what many parents are doing to home educate their children. It is especially inspiring when the choice the children might face is a failing school (and yes, there are far too many of those).

 

But what is going on in good schools I think the assumptions do not comport well with the reality.

 

Bill

[Stacy in NJ]

While some public schools do a superior job, they are usually the schools serving the most affluent and highly educated portion of our population. In fact, it's questionable whether what they do actually effects outcome because their population is usually so well (over) prepared for school. The actual curricula they use may make only marginal difference.

 

The thing to pay attention to is those schools that take disadvanted kids and do a superior job.

[datgh]

My son is like yours. He just made the cut off date for Kindergarten. The school tested him and academically he was more than ready to go but socially he was still young. They told us it would be a gift to have him wait a year. It is far better to be the oldest in the class than the youngest especially for boys. We waited the year and are so happy we did it. A child can be more academically advanced than anyone in the class but if he doesn't have the maturity level of his peers he will be miserable. This has become more apparent to us as our son has hit the middle school years.

 

I know this isn't an easy decision. You know your child best.

[zaichiki]

Since my younger ds is attending school for the first time (gr. 8) and I am no longer homeschooling, I've been substitute teaching k-12 since September. I'm mostly in grades 3-5 (largest population & aids needed).

 

YES, it IS advanced! Most 2nd graders can read fluently at what I would consider grade 4 level at the least. Most 4th graders know all their multiplication/division tables VERY well. The writing is advanced but the spelling is still poor in grades 3-5 (as I would expect).

 

Science and math are MUCH more advanced in middle and high school than in the past.

 

That's interesting. I'm not finding this to be the case AT ALL in the schools near me (both public and private-known-locally-for-being-advanced). Seriously. This has GOT to be a location kinda thing.

[LibraryLover]

Poverty does terrible things to children and their educations. Poor children come to school with nutrition issues, lead issues, and more, which puts them at a learning disadvantage right there, with or without phonics instruction. It's simply...not that simple.

 

Learning differences/disabilities are huge issues, even when children are well nourished. I am convinced dyslexia and related challenges are more common than ADD. I think a lot of kids with dysgraphia and the like are often mis-diagnosed with ADD and more.

 

Those schools who have the funding and knowledge to work with these neuro challenges are the minority. Until we deal with that better, children will not test well, even if they are taught to the test, 51 weeks of the year.

[Britomart]

However, I sometimes get a little crazy when people say "No matter what you're doing at home, it's more than the schools are doing.' I've been a hser for a very long time, seen it all, and have experienced schools through my sons. I have to bite my tongue sometimes when hsers says these things, because some people are kidding themselves.

 

Good golly, I hate this too. It's so nice to hear I'm not the only one!

 

While I understand it takes awhile to get up to speed and figure out a schedule and the methods that work best for your family and that you'll have off days where nothing gets done (my oldest is only 6 and I have toddler twins, so I get that), when I hear, "Oh, just cook and color and let your kids help you with the housework and read a lot to them and they'll pick up everything they need in good time" I just go CRAZY. (In my head. I'm polite. :D )

 

But a lot of that, I know, is because a lot of the homeschoolers I know are homeschooling for primarily religious reasons, whereas I'm homeschooling primarily (though not entirely) for academic reasons. So there's a big push to take care of "character" before taking care of academics. (But doesn't good character come partly from doing things you don't want to do - like schoolwork - because they're the right thing to do?)

 

Anyway. It makes me nuts. Even if you're home-educating for religious reasons (which I think is perfectly legitimate), you have to actually educate. I hear people say, "oh, it'll all come out in the wash," and I just don't see how that can possibly be true. Learning isn't osmosis. At least, not entirely.

[Britomart]

My son is like yours. He just made the cut off date for Kindergarten. The school tested him and academically he was more than ready to go but socially he was still young. They told us it would be a gift to have him wait a year. It is far better to be the oldest in the class than the youngest especially for boys. We waited the year and are so happy we did it. A child can be more academically advanced than anyone in the class but if he doesn't have the maturity level of his peers he will be miserable. This has become more apparent to us as our son has hit the middle school years.

 

 

fwiw, my schools several times offered my parents the chance to have me skip a grade (and also to enter early, when I was starting) and my parents refused each time. I'm so glad they did. Even if I was bored sometimes, I'm really glad I wasn't dealing with junior high social garbage any earlier than I did. Or high school social garbage. Turning 18 when you're a high school senior is no bad thing. There are always opportunities for academic challenge. There aren't many opportunities to regain lost developmental time.

[Kalmia]

Yes, there are some very good school districts. I have had the opportunity to teach enrichment classes in one of the best ones in the nation. Many of my husband's friends are thrilled with their schools. However, the schools in our area (2-3 counties away) are mediocre at best. The difference? The schools I taught in and the schools my husband's friend's kids go to are in towns where the minimum price of a house (any house, not a mansion) is close to one million dollars. Many of the parents own corporations, are executives in Fortune 500 companies, or work on Wall Street. These are places where wealthy families donate entire computer labs to the school! The teachers come out of Columbia University, Brown, or Harvard, or begin teaching after careers as lawyers or scientists. Also, the parents raise holy hell if their children are not being "challenged" enough. They are insulted by poor curricular choices and have the power to force the schools to change.

 

Where most of us are living this is not the case. In many places parents are actively discouraged from participating in the schools. Any parent questioning a curriculum choice would be laughed out of the building, if they were allowed in in the first place. Many of the teachers have gone to "degree mills" not real colleges. The curricula is watered down to the lowest performing child.

 

My son went to PS kindergarten in a solidly middle class area in the northeast. The teachers here are well paid. Yet, they spent the ENTIRE YEAR on the numbers 1-10. COUNTING and COLORING. They added in one week of SHAPES and called math good! All children did the same work, acceleration was not permitted. It was the same in Language Arts: a whole lot of coloring the letters of the alphabet.

 

In contrast, the students in the wealthy district were allowed to work to their potential. If they needed to do basic 1-10 numbers, they did. If they could already multiply, they did. The teachers there introduced more math skills in the first semester than ours did in the entire year. There were actual science classes! The vocabulary used by the teachers was of a much higher level than that used by the teachers in my area.

 

Many of my friends are teachers. Most of them are very disappointed by the education they are being directed to give the children. Many of them remember a time before they had to teach to the tests. Some of them are homeschooling.

 

The homeschoolers I have met here (most are WTM devotees) demonstrate a much higher educational level than most of the PS students that I know or observe around town. Their knowledge base in history alone is astonishing. And the most important part is that they love learning, while precious few public school students I know do. Of those who still do love learning: even though their parent's aren't "homeschooling" them, they are people who actively encourage learning in their homes.

 

As a parent who has had extensive experience on both sides: two brother-in-law's who are teachers, about ten friends who are teachers, I, myself, taught enrichment classes in a public school for years, and I saw my son through three exasperatingly pathetic years of public and private school education. I don't think the people on this board are "exaggerating" their claims about the poor performance of the public schools in their regions. Because schools continue to be funded by property taxes, the divide between the education the rich, middle, and poor districts provide continues to be vast.

[Heather in WI]

Good public schools are doing a lot more than than one would guess from reading the stereotypical characterizations than are often made on this forum.

 

Many people are absolutely kidding themselves.

 

 

However, I sometimes get a little crazy when people say "No matter what you're doing at home, it's more than the schools are doing.' I have to bite my tongue sometimes when hsers says these things, because some people are kidding themselves.

 

Most 2nd graders can read fluently at what I would consider grade 4 level at the least. Most 4th graders know all their multiplication/division tables VERY well.

Science and math are MUCH more advanced in middle and high school than in the past.

 

:iagree:

 

Except that I didn't bite my tongue on the OP's other thread. :D

[Kalmia]

BlessedMom3,

 

I showed my husband, a NYU Law graduate who has scored in the 99th percentile in quantitative aptitude tests given to graduate students, the math problem in your OP, and he couldn't figure out what they were trying to ask!

 

He also mentioned that, technically, an infinite number of functions are consistent with those two data points (42, 35 and 28, 21) so a practicing mathematician might not be able to find the answer either! Unless that mathematician had been coached on how to take 2nd grade admission test!

 

So I wouldn't treat the results of that test very seriously!!!!!

Edited February 24, 2011 by Kalmia

[Rivka]

X- 4 = 6+2 (isn't it kind of prealgebra?? ) I haven't learned these things before I was 9-10 yrs old !!

 

It has so much to do with what they've been exposed to and how they've been taught. There are tons of questions like this in MEP 1, so my kid could do it. But I'm sure it would throw her if she'd never seen this kind of question before.

[jennynd]

I was laughing when i see this. He is absolutely right. Unless you specify that i is a liner function, You can't say there is a relationship between those two... Oh boy!!

 

 

BlessedMom3,

 

I showed my husband, a NYU Law graduate who has scored in the 99th percentile in quantitative aptitude tests given to graduate students, the math problem in your OP, and he couldn't figure out what they were trying to ask!

 

He also mentioned that, technically, an infinite number of functions are consistent with those two data points (42, 35 and 28, 21) so a practicing mathematician might not be able to find the answer either! Unless that mathematician had been coached on how to take 2nd grade admission test!

 

So I wouldn't treat the results of that test very seriously!!!!!

[Spy Car]

It has so much to do with what they've been exposed to and how they've been taught. There are tons of questions like this in MEP 1, so my kid could do it. But I'm sure it would throw her if she'd never seen this kind of question before.

 

They do look just like MEP 1 questions, don't they?

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

I just "tested" my 6.5 year old First Grader on the math questions. He got them easily.

 

I do credit his (semi) "home schooling" rather than his public schooling for this result :D

 

Bill

[Barb_]

My kids did that kind of math in ps at that age. When I tested them in homeschool curriculum they it varied from them going two years ahead to a year behind grade level. Each program uses its own scope and sequence. Switching is rarely easy or a straight shot.

 

:iagree: Even my high school daughter who scored in the national merit range on her PSAT in 10th grade scored in the average passing range on the state AIMS test that same year. Edited to clarify, she attended a public classical charter and was required to take the state test. She said the language seemed unclear and designed not to have clear answers. The concepts are presented in a way to make them seem more advanced than they are. Think Eduspeak.

 

Last year I considered putting my son in a local feeder preschool. He sat in for an activity. The teacher had sorting bears on a table and was attempting to get three other girls and a boy to "sort the bears based on their attributes." She continued to repeat the word "attributes" while cutting her eyes at me to see whether I was impressed with their advanced program. Meanwhile, the boy was ignoring her and making the bears fight, one of the girls tried to tell her a story about a mommy bear and a baby bear and a third girl just lined all the bears up randomly like they were in a parade. Eventually these kids will learn to snap to and group the bears according to color or whatever, but I would argue that the creative play was a lot more valuable. And she didn't really even notice what was happening. She was too busy looking for the signs of an impressive grasp of the word attribute instead of noticing the creativity and developmentally appropriate activities that were already taking place. Schools like this one and yours are usually concentrating more on bragging rights (look what our kids can do) and aren't really educating the kids for their own sake.

 

Barb

Edited February 24, 2011 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[BBG580]

While some public schools do a superior job, they are usually the schools serving the most affluent and highly educated portion of our population. In fact, it's questionable whether what they do actually effects outcome because their population is usually so well (over) prepared for school. The actual curricula they use may make only marginal difference.

 

The thing to pay attention to is those schools that take disadvanted kids and do a superior job.

 

I agree. Our elementary school tests very well in all grade levels. The children receive Mandarin language education from K forward. There are Smart Boards in every single classroom and the PTO and parent volunteer situation couldn't be better.

 

The school is also seriously overcrowded. There are 7 classes of each grade all of which have at least 25 students. That means there are on average 175 kids in each grade in the school.

 

What gives this school an edge? It's the parents. I live in an affluent area and the parents are involved. Their kids may be in school all day but those parents are working with their children at home. No matter how much money a school has access to and how many expensive amenities the school offers the single thing our local elementary school depends on is parental volunteering and donations and general parental involvement.

 

I'm homeschooling because I think my children deserve more attention than any teacher could possibly provide with 25+ children in their class. I also think it is excessive to have my little children away from home 40+ hours a week beginning in Kindergarten. If I am going to have to shell out $ and volunteer I'd rather keep it "in house". :tongue_smilie:

[HejKatt]

 

The homeschoolers I have met here (most are WTM devotees) demonstrate a much higher educational level than most of the PS students that I know or observe around town. Their knowledge base in history alone is astonishing. And the most important part is that they love learning, while precious few public school students I know do. Of those who still do love learning: even though their parent's aren't "homeschooling" them, they are people who actively encourage learning in their homes.

 

:iagree: I think it's great your local school has high standards, and hope your dc will do well. But I wanted to add that it's hard to get a clear idea of a child's education based on a snapshot of what's being taught.

 

Personal story: I attended a high school (non-US) which was considered a good, competitive school. In mathematics and science, it was - we did enough that I found first year in college a breeze. But it came at the expense of common sense - a classmate didn't know how many days it takes Earth to orbit the sun, and I couldn't find France on a map (hangs head in shame). We could, however, do 100 non-trivial math problems/day.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that challenging curriculum is all very good, but there are many variables too (and I don't just mean a good sports team) - love of learning, character development where progress needs to be made.

 

I'm sure you won't fall into the either/or fallacy of academics vs the other stuff, I just wanted to share my experience coming from an 'academically superior' ps, where some of us lost the goal of education.

[justamouse]

BlessedMom3,

 

I showed my husband, a NYU Law graduate who has scored in the 99th percentile in quantitative aptitude tests given to graduate students, the math problem in your OP, and he couldn't figure out what they were trying to ask!

 

He also mentioned that, technically, an infinite number of functions are consistent with those two data points (42, 35 and 28, 21) so a practicing mathematician might not be able to find the answer either! Unless that mathematician had been coached on how to take 2nd grade admission test!

 

So I wouldn't treat the results of that test very seriously!!!!!

 

 

And there you go.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't so much stock in that 'test'.

[Kathleen in VA]

Last summer I did a history club in my home with homeschool kids and public school kids. The public school kids could write circles, no whirlwinds, around most of the homeschool kids. One of the homeschool kids, who I formerly considered a "gifted" writer, was at about the same level as the public school kids who were one year younger than her.

 

I'm guessing that at least with writing and in my school district the public school kids are getting some rigorous instruction, and that the teachers have some high standards.

 

I must edit to add a "but." But, the homeschool kids stayed in the history club for the whole summer while the public school kids quit because it was too hard, either to obtain the books from the library, or do the reading, or just too hard in general. So, there you have it, my unscientific comparison.

 

In what way did the ps'er's write better? Can you explain that in a bit more detail? Thanks.:)

[Violet Crown]

Agreeing heavily with Spy Car et al here. My own evidence is only anecdotal, and I know the saw about data not being the plural of anecdote, but .... I've taught 3rd-grade CCD for years now, and I always get a mix of kids in public school, the parish school (private), and homeschooled.

 

There has been one universal rule. The children who are reading at or above grade level (I use a reasonably challenging 3rd-grade text), who can write well, who have clearly learned the second-grade (sacrament year) material and remember it, the children who engage and actually learn the material I'm teaching, are always the ones whose parents heavily involve themselves. Their parents sit in on the classes frequently, ask questions about the curriculum, go over their children's homework and make sure it's turned in, and heavily supplement the curriculum at home.

 

This has held true even for children whose first language isn't English. I haven't noticed any advantage that the homeschooled children have had over the public or private school children. The only factor in common for the children who have, and are getting, a good education has been the parents.

[LG Gone Wild]

Agreeing heavily with Spy Car et al here. My own evidence is only anecdotal, and I know the saw about data not being the plural of anecdote, but .... I've taught 3rd-grade CCD for years now, and I always get a mix of kids in public school, the parish school (private), and homeschooled.

 

There has been one universal rule. The children who are reading at or above grade level (I use a reasonably challenging 3rd-grade text), who can write well, who have clearly learned the second-grade (sacrament year) material and remember it, the children who engage and actually learn the material I'm teaching, are always the ones whose parents heavily involve themselves. Their parents sit in on the classes frequently, ask questions about the curriculum, go over their children's homework and make sure it's turned in, and heavily supplement the curriculum at home.

 

This has held true even for children whose first language isn't English. I haven't noticed any advantage that the homeschooled children have had over the public or private school children. The only factor in common for the children who have, and are getting, a good education has been the parents.

 

 

Amen. That might explain why I feel so drained and brain dead at the end of a productive school day. One day I was studying my son's Latin and Greek lessons to make sure everything was on the up and up, dh came home and found me face down on the bed, passed out.

Edited February 24, 2011 by LG Gone Wild

[kdeno]

Schools around here are very advanced.

[12Stars]

I wish I could say our local schools were advanced, they are not. I was a CCD teacher as well and many of the children did struggle with reading and understanding age appropriate vocabulary. Most of the parents treated CCD like a drop off so they could run errands. The children that were right on target their parents were very involved.

[pdalley]

Threads like this make me wonder why I bother trying to home school...:glare:

 

Then I remember that they don't recognize my oldest's dyslexia, they never follow IEP's or behavior intervention plans and I spend more time at school than I do at home (which would prevent me from getting a job) and they were always out of class and not learning anything anyway.

 

I'd really love to know where these advanced public schools are. They aren't here. And my kids were behind when I pulled them out - they have various and sundry issues - some the schools recognize and some they don't - so we'll just keep on keeping on.

 

(And I pray like you know where that nothing will happen to me before I can get them graduated and out into the world - though we do have contingency plans)

[Tap]

.

[blessedmom3]

I used to help facilitate our states required testing. There were great math students, using different curricula, who when faced with the public school way of math, would fail the tests or have absolutely no way of understanding what the question asked. It wasn't that the kids were incapable of doing the math, they were

1. asking questions using different vocabulary,

2. looking for a different 'style' of answer (ie fraction vs. decimal)

3. looking for the process of deriving the answer to be illustrated-not just the math shown

4. asking a question that wouldn't make sense unless you used the same program

5. testing harder than the students actually perform at.

 

I am not saying this to sway your decision any way but this is our story. Ds16 was in public school until 2nd grade. He has a late summer b-day so before I enrolled him I had him tested by the school psychiatrist. He tested academically well ahead of other Kers, and at level socially too. The tester said we could make the choice and he would support us either way. We opted for him to go that year (on schedule for him, but we could have waited a year).

 

By placing him in, we saw a few things become apparent for ds. While ds was never a athlete at heart, being the youngest made this even more apparent. He was not as physically adept as other kids and adding the age difference really made him struggle on grade based teams. Emotionally ds was a strong kid, but he seemed to have interests more like the kids in the grade below him. He wasn't immature....but his interests were. Being the young one in his classes, set him up for that path, and we never really questioned it. Now, I do.

 

When this became more one sided, was in middle school*. In middle school, he would have been moved into the more advanced classes anyways. BUT, I think that this age difference did lead to some 'maturity of understanding' on some topics. He was young, had young preferences, yet was in advanced classes. In 8th grade he was in 3 full on high school classes, 9th grade, he was taking classes with jrs/srs. There were times that he was a 12-13yo with 18yos, and with material designed for 17-18yo students. While he got these credits earlier than his peers, I think he may have got more out of the classes if he would have taken them at the appropriate grade/age. We left the our public school/home school hybrid at this time because he had already taken all but 2 of the high school credit classes they had to offer him...in 10th grade. While ds has always been tall, the physical differences were very obvious by being almost a full year younger than his peers too.

 

In many ways, I wish I would have not allowed him to advance so fast, but instead filled in more with material that is not considered traditional topics. Maybe adding a year of Oceanography for instance instead of staying the course set up so young, of early graduation.

 

Now that he is in college, again, I see the 'maturity of understanding' issue coming up a bit more. He doesn't have the life experiences that his peers do, and sometimes I think that hurts as much, as his early acceptance to college would seem to advance him.

 

For us it was a trade off, way back when.....either the class was going to be more academically appropriate or socially. Since we made the move early on, we never pulled him back. I didn't repeat this same pattern with dd12 who has an early fall bday. She was ready academically, but I didn't take the chance to accelerate her a grade when I could have. At 6th grade, I am glad I didn't.

 

*Grade 1-3 public school, 4 private, 5-9 homeschool/public hybrid, 10 public, 11- highschool/college.

 

 

Thanks for this . You made me reconsider everything :)

I did not think about the emotional /maturity / physical issues . I still think he could face at least 2nd grade work . I will strongly re-consider homeschooling in the fall. UIntil then, I want to try PS.

 

As a side note, we went to Walmart after the test and he told his little sister that "Shoplifters will be persecuted" ( she forgot to pay for the doll -we had to scan the card again ). Then he told the cashier that Hammurabi would kill you or cut your hands if you steal :glare:

I doubt many 2nd graders in PS ever heard about Hammurabi , but then again it's not as important as math &LA skills they ask for kiddos these days ...

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

The only factor in common for the children who have, and are getting, a good education has been the parents.

 

This is what I continually tell dh about our public school system. Our ps system has gobs of money to spend, so people purposefully move here for the schools. Recently, several families were caught renting an apartment together in the district (without actually living there) so that their children could go to the schools. After having observed 2 years of my children's experience at school, and observing the other parents in my neighborhood who afterschool their kids whether they know it or not, and who spend hours at the library with their kids (I see them there all the time!), I'm convinced the high test scores our district consistently gets has nothing to do with the schools, and absolutely everything to do with the parents. The parents who move here are extremely interested and involved in their kids' education.

 

Also, I observed that at our ps, the children are introduced to many concepts at early levels, but they never spent much time on them, unless they are cramming for a test. I personally think you should learn skills to mastery level, and then move on.

[Jenny in GA]

Also, I observed that at our ps, the children are introduced to many concepts at early levels, but they never spent much time on them, unless they are cramming for a test. I personally think you should learn skills to mastery level, and then move on.

 

:iagree:

 

I know a woman whose child is the same age as my oldest. When they were both five and six, the mother was often talking about how great her child's school was, and how much they were learning, and how well her child was doing.

 

But around the end of third grade, it was a different tune. Her child was still doing well in school. But the mother was frustrated that the school was throwing concepts at the kids so fast, especially in math class. She said they would have two days on a new concept, have a test the third day, then move on to something else.

 

Another day she told me, "If I had the money, I would absolutely pull her out and send her to a private school."

 

I live in a really good school district, and I constantly hear parents talk about how impressed they are with the schools, and how much the kids are learning, and how advanced it it. But sometimes I wonder: How will that pan out by around seventh and eighth grade?