I really need help if you have time: EIL or SL

[ABQmom]

We are on the last leg of TOG year 1, and I am planning next year's curriculum especially since our convention is in April. TOG was too much planning for me. I had a hard time wading through all the info and trying to decide what we should do and what we should leave out. I'm committed to it until the end, but I need something different for next year.

 

I have always followed the WTM rotation, so dd and the rest of the kids will be in year 2--middle ages and reformation. I'd like to have my history and literature tied together, but I need a LOT of hand holding for my high schooler. At the same time, SWB's audio tapes on writing and literary analysis make me happy. I just don't know if her audios are enough hand holding. By hand holding, I mean, I want a curriculum to tell me, "Do this, say this, now do this,and look for this." Maybe I'm asking too much.

 

So far, I've narrowed my options down to 2. I would like opinions on just these 2 for now. No more suggestions, please! :001_smile:

 

I'm thinking of using the reading list from Sonlight core 200 and attempting to do literary analysis the way SWB recommends. Or, I have been thinking of using Excellence in Literature for literature. History and lit don't have to tie in at this point.

 

Can anyone tell me which they think I'd like better? If you have used one or the other, what is your opinion? Any suggestions for using either curriculum would be helpful too. I will also have an eighth grader next year. How possible is it for me to include her in either possibility? If I could have them doing the same thing, that would be fabulous!

Edited February 23, 2011 by ABQmom

[Lori D.]

While I have not personally used either, Excellence in Literature would probably meet more of your needs and expectations than Sonlight. HOWEVER, even more than either EIL or SL200, I think Home Scholar's Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings OR IEW's Windows to the World would meet your criteria even more so. Below are pros and cons of each. BEST of luck in finding what works best for your family -- and

 

 

Sonlight 200

 

PROS

- several books from the list would match up with medieval/reformation history

- has some writing/language arts assignment ideas

 

CONS

- very little instruction in what literary analysis is and how to go about it

- very little "lit. guide" material and discussion questions (some books have a small amount; other books have none)

- no instruction in writing (composition)

- very little in the way of teacher helps for writing, such as grading rubrics, etc.

- less variety in types of literature (some non-fiction; then either classic novels or historical fiction-type novels)

 

GENERAL COMMENTS

- SL cores are written as a broad, sweeping coverage of several school subjects, using many books; it is not meant as a very focused, specific help for literary analysis of just a few books

- of all the SL high school level cores, I have heard the MOST complaints and disappointments with SL200 -- with several loyal SL fans actually returning this core (some of this may be due to the church focus rather than the usual history focus)

- there are some great "must-read" books in the SL200 list

 

 

Excellence in Literature

 

PROS

- written to the student; can be done mostly solo by the student

- can be done by grades 8-12, so you could combine both students

- has writing assignments, and models/samples of good writing

- encourages research and independent working

- covers a variety of types of literature (novels, short stories, poetry, etc.)

 

CONS

- depending on which program you go with, only 1-2 works fit the medieval/reformation history

- moves quickly through works (4 weeks per work -- we often take 8-10 weeks for complex, in-depth novels)

 

GENERAL COMMENTS

- from what I can see of it, this program will not hold your hand, but it IS geared so a student can work solo

- it looks like the writing instruction is minimal, but suggests other resources to go to for more depth

 

LINKS

 

- Cathy Duffy review

 

 

I know you specifically requested no other options BUT... I can't help myself (LOL!), because, I really do think, based on your list of needs, both of the following would be EXCELLENT possible options to consider:

 

 

Literary Lessons From the Lord of the Rings

 

PROS

- covers medieval literature (the 3 books of the LotR trilogy, plus Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and some poetry are all analyzed -- and there are suggestions should you also wish to include MacBeth or Midsummer Night's Dream by Shakespeare, and/or The Iliad or The Odyssey (ancient Greek epics by Homer))

- very gentle intro into literary analysis

- wonderful additional notes and guided discussion questions -- really holds your hand

- can EASILY be done with your 8th grader and high schooler together

- 12 additional units of very helpful material -- 4 of them analyze other works (Beowulf, Sir Gawain, poetry); 1 gives detailed background info on the author and his times; and 6 units discuss lit. topics (setting; the lit. genre of fantasy; the conventions of an epic; Arthurian works of literature; unifying themes and motifs)

- vocabulary worksheets

- some writing assignment ideas

 

CONS

- no writing instruction

- no teacher materials/resources for writing instruction or grading rubrics

 

GENERAL COMMENTS

- this program really seems to *invite* and initiate discussion from students in a way no other programs, lit. guides, or SWB's WEM questions had done for us previously

- you would have enough time while doing this program to include some books from the SL200 list -- or works that better fit into your history timeframe -- and practice literary analysis the way SWB suggests in her audiotapes -- and it would be in a non-threatening way, as your literature credit wouldn't be riding on it -- this would be your opportunity to "get your feet wet" WITHOUT it "having to count"

 

LINKS

- content overview

- table of contents

- sample lessons

 

 

Windows to the World

 

PROS

- excellent, detailed, specific program for an intro into literary analysis

- a 1-semester high school course, but can be expanded to a year (download the files from the author on the yahoo groups)

- would be great to do together with 8th grader and high schooler

- has lots of practice exercises

- teaches annotation, and then how specifically to use your annotation as examples for writing a literary analysis essay

- very specific, detailed, helpful instruction in how to write a literary analysis -- best I've seen!

- *loads* of teacher helps; very specific and hand-holding

 

CONS

- no medieval/reformation works (it uses 6 short stories from the late 1800s into the 1900s from Europe and U.S.)

 

GENERAL COMMENTS

- an excellent intro in literary analysis and in writing about literature

- gives you plenty of time to select works and practice SWB literary analysis "on the side"

 

LINKS

- table of contents and sample pages

- Cathy Duffy review

Edited February 23, 2011 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

1. Do it together

It is MUCH easier to "get" literature if you are doing it with someone else. I suggest either reading it aloud together and discussing as you go, or get it as a book on tape and listen while traveling in the car, or in the evenings, or whatever -- again, so you can hear it unfold at the same time and discuss as thoughts come to you. MUCH easier to discuss "in the moment" than after the fact.

 

 

2. Heavily make use of literature guides

Before you even crack the cover: Read a summary in advance so you know what the basic plot is, who the main characters are and their relationships with one another are, and learn the background information on the author and the times in which the work is set. All of these are crucial to "getting" the literature AS you read.

 

Then use the lit. guide AS you read to help you SEE AND UNDERSTAND themes, motivations, symbols, significant quotations, etc. There are several good FREE online lit. guides that we use:

- Glencoe = http://www.glencoe.com/sec/literature/litlibrary/

- Sparknotes = http://www.sparknotes.com/sparknotes/

- Cliffsnotes = http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/...id-305321.html

- Wikipedia articles = http://www.wikipedia.org/

 

 

3. Pick works that are more likely to connect

People often work harder to understand a difficult work if it is about something they enjoy, know about, or connect with.

 

- DC really like nature or adventure?

Call of the Wild, Treasure Island, The Odyssey, Huckleberry Finn

 

- DC prefer female authors or female themes?

Pride & Prejudice (et.al.), Jane Eyre, My Antonia, To Kill a Mockingbird, Their Eyes Were Watching God

 

- DC enjoy sci-fi?

Farenheit 451, The Time Machine, War of the Worlds, 1984, Brave New World

 

- DC really like fantasy?

Lord of the Rings, the Earthsea trilogy (LeGuin), Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Peter Pan, short stories "The Golden Key" or "The Light Princess"

 

- DC connect with warriors or war?

Beowulf, Macbeth, The Red Badge of Courage, All Quiet on the Western Front, A Farewell to Arms

 

- DC need something humorous for balance?

All Creatures Great and Small, My Family and Other Animals, Life With Jeeves, Three Men in a Boat, The Importance of Being Earnest, Much Ado About Nothing

 

DC like horror or gothic works?

Frankenstein, Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, works by Edgar Allen Poe, Wuthering Heights

 

 

4. Watch a (faithful) film version first

Especially if you're going to tackle a more difficult work thematically or language-wise, try watching a film version first, so you'll have a good idea of the plot and characters in advance. (And this can naturally lead to a compare/contrast paper!)

 

 

5. Start with easier classic literature

Charles Dickens is a bit steep as a first solo outing with classic literature -- pretty heavy on the vocabulary and lengthy Victorian sentence structures. Here are some classic lit ideas that most high school students cover, that are not so tough language-wise:

 

- To Kill a Mockingbird (Lee)

- The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (Twain)

- The Old Man and the Sea (Hemingway)

- Call of the Wild (London)

- Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (Carroll)

- Animal Farm (Orwell)

 

 

6. Start with shorter works

Try gently and work your way up to harder and/or longer works by starting with short stories or novellas by classic authors:

 

- The Lady or the Tiger (Stockton)

- The Most Dangerous Game (Connell)

- Gift of the Magi (Henry)

- The Lottery (Jackson)

- Bride Comes to Yellow Sky (Crane)

- The Monkey's Paw (Jacobs)

- Thank You Ma'm (Hughes)

- a Sherlock Holmes short story (Doyle)

- The Open Window (Saki)

- Rip Van Winkle (Irving)

 

 

7. Practice by listening to classic works

Try listening to classic works on audio, but especially, start watching some classic plays to get used to the language:

- Much Ado About Nothing (1993 film with Kenneth Branaugh and Emma Thompson)

- Henry V (1989 film with Kenneth Branaugh)

- Julius Caesar (1953 film)

- The Taming of the Shrew (1980 BBC TV version with John Cleese)

- The Importance of Being Ernest (1952 film)

- Pygmalion ("My Fair Lady" is the musical version of this play)

- Our Town (1977 TV version with Hal Lindon or 2001 TV version with Paul Newman)

- Death of a Salesman (1985 TV version with Dustin Hoffman)

- A Raisin in the Sun (1961 film -- OR -- 2008 TV version)

 

 

And read the first 4 chapters or so of Susan Wise-Bauer's The Well EDUCATED Mind for how to go about reading/thinking about/discussing literature -- I jotted down the key questions on a notecard, just to have handy as we read our Lit. aloud as something to refer to, or to help us "springboard" into discussion at the end of a chapter. Lit. guide discussion questions are good for that, too -- to get you started.

 

 

And, for when you'd like some more ideas and encouragement for stepping out into a SWB-style literary analysis, this past post of mine from the thread How to Study Literature? was a compilation of LOADS of past threads and other resources for getting started with literary analysis. Enjoy -- a little at a time! :tongue_smilie:

 

 

BEST of luck! And enjoy your literature journey with your DC! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Lori D.
added links

[MaryCatherine]

Wow, Lori D!! I'm not the OP but I sure appreciate all your efforts here. Thanks so much.

[ABQmom]

Lori,

 

I love you! Thank you, thank you. I didn't really want more ideas, but I am grateful that you ignored my plea! I feel like I should pay you or something for all the time you spent on my questions. :001_smile:

 

I am going to print out your replies, and start looking into what you've suggested. I really like the idea of having time to work in some other lit of our choice without the literature credit riding on it. I also did not know that Literary Lessons from LOTR had other lit to study--I thought is was just the LOTR books. My three oldest children are reading those books right now because we told them they couldn't see the movies until they read the books. If your kids had already read them, would you go with that choice? I also did the Iliad with dd this year.

 

Anyway, thanks again.

[ABQmom]

1. Do it together

It is MUCH easier to "get" literature if you are doing it with someone else. I suggest either reading it aloud together and discussing as you go, or get it as a book on tape and listen while traveling in the car, or in the evenings, or whatever -- again, so you can hear it unfold at the same time and discuss as thoughts come to you. MUCH easier to discuss "in the moment" than after the fact.

 

 

2. Heavily make use of literature guides

Before you even crack the cover: Read a summary in advance so you know what the basic plot is, who the main characters are and their relationships with one another are, and learn the background information on the author and the times in which the work is set. All of these are crucial to "getting" the literature AS you read.

 

Then use the lit. guide AS you read to help you SEE AND UNDERSTAND themes, motivations, symbols, significant quotations, etc. There are several good FREE online lit. guides that we use:

- Glencoe = http://www.glencoe.com/sec/literature/litlibrary/

- Sparknotes = http://www.sparknotes.com/sparknotes/

- Cliffsnotes = http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/...id-305321.html

- Wikipedia articles = http://www.wikipedia.org/

 

 

3. Pick works that are more likely to connect

People often work harder to understand a difficult work if it is about something they enjoy, know about, or connect with.

 

- DC really like nature or adventure?

Call of the Wild, Treasure Island, The Odyssey, Huckleberry Finn

 

- DC prefer female authors or female themes?

Pride & Prejudice (et.al.), Jane Eyre, My Antonia, To Kill a Mockingbird, Their Eyes Were Watching God

 

- DC enjoy sci-fi?

Farenheit 451, The Time Machine, War of the Worlds, 1984, Brave New World

 

- DC really like fantasy?

Lord of the Rings, the Earthsea trilogy (LeGuin), Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Peter Pan, short stories "The Golden Key" or "The Light Princess"

 

- DC connect with warriors or war?

Beowulf, Macbeth, The Red Badge of Courage, All Quiet on the Western Front, A Farewell to Arms

 

- DC need something humorous for balance?

All Creatures Great and Small, My Family and Other Animals, Life With Jeeves, Three Men in a Boat, The Importance of Being Earnest, Much Ado About Nothing

 

DC like horror or gothic works?

Frankenstein, Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, works by Edgar Allen Poe, Wuthering Heights

 

 

4. Watch a (faithful) film version first

Especially if you're going to tackle a more difficult work thematically or language-wise, try watching a film version first, so you'll have a good idea of the plot and characters in advance. (And this can naturally lead to a compare/contrast paper!)

 

 

5. Start with easier classic literature

Charles Dickens is a bit steep as a first solo outing with classic literature -- pretty heavy on the vocabulary and lengthy Victorian sentence structures. Here are some classic lit ideas that most high school students cover, that are not so tough language-wise:

 

- To Kill a Mockingbird (Lee)

- The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (Twain)

- The Old Man and the Sea (Hemingway)

- Call of the Wild (London)

- Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (Carroll)

- Animal Farm (Orwell)

 

 

6. Start with shorter works

Try gently and work your way up to harder and/or longer works by starting with short stories or novellas by classic authors:

 

- The Lady or the Tiger (Stockton)

- The Most Dangerous Game (Connell)

- Gift of the Magi (Henry)

- The Lottery (Jackson)

- Bride Comes to Yellow Sky (Crane)

- The Monkey's Paw (Jacobs)

- Thank You Ma'm (Hughes)

- a Sherlock Holmes short story (Doyle)

- The Open Window (Saki)

- Rip Van Winkle (Irving)

 

 

7. Practice by listening to classic works

Try listening to classic works on audio, but especially, start watching some classic plays to get used to the language:

- Much Ado About Nothing (1993 film with Kenneth Branaugh and Emma Thompson)

- Henry V (1989 film with Kenneth Branaugh)

- Julius Caesar (1953 film)

- The Taming of the Shrew (1980 BBC TV version with John Cleese)

- The Importance of Being Ernest (1952 film)

- Pygmalion ("My Fair Lady" is the musical version of this play)

- Our Town (1977 TV version with Hal Lindon or 2001 TV version with Paul Newman)

- Death of a Salesman (1985 TV version with Dustin Hoffman)

- A Raisin in the Sun (1961 film -- OR -- 2008 TV version)

 

 

And read the first 4 chapters or so of Susan Wise-Bauer's The Well EDUCATED Mind for how to go about reading/thinking about/discussing literature -- I jotted down the key questions on a notecard, just to have handy as we read our Lit. aloud as something to refer to, or to help us "springboard" into discussion at the end of a chapter. Lit. guide discussion questions are good for that, too -- to get you started.

 

 

And, for when you'd like some more ideas and encouragement for stepping out into a SWB-style literary analysis, this past post of mine from the thread How to Study Literature? was a compilation of LOADS of past threads and other resources for getting started with literary analysis. Enjoy -- a little at a time! :tongue_smilie:

 

 

BEST of luck! And enjoy your literature journey with your DC! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Okay, now I've read through your second post to me, and what can I say? Thank you again. This is some great advice. I can see me doing these things. I'm reading Antigone with dd right now, and it is going well because we are reading it together, and I can explain to her when she misses something. Funny thing that I didn't expect is that a couple of times she has caught on to something and explained it to me! We are enjoying reading this way. I'm glad to hear that others do this too. I think it's been more fun for dd this way.