Yikes!! 6 year old sent to psychiatric ward by school against parent's wishes!

[DawnL]

And what's really sad is how many people can't get their seriously suicidal teens into any programs that will help when they DO want to... but this, boom, instant 72-hour hold.

 

:iagree: I have a friend with a teen who has struggled with this recently. He was eventually admitted into a good program, but it was only for about 6 weeks. He was sent home way too early so it didn't really accomplish anything.

 

And I do think this child will remember it. I remember absolutely everything of even the slightest importance from when I was little. There is no way he's going to forget that.

[LibraryLover]

The doctors at the hospital held this child, not the school.

 

Given that most dead children are killed at the hands of their parents, do schools really have the option not to report children who are in so much pain they speak of suicide?

 

 

Rock, meet Hard Place.

 

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20022954-504083.html

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1246546/Mother-Fiona-Donnison-kills-children-leaves-bodies-car-boot.html

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-6009742-504083.html

Edited February 23, 2011 by LibraryLover

[2cents]

Teachers are mandatory reporters and the child's statements required action for if no other reason to protect the teacher and school from liability should the child do something to hurt himself. If he had hurt himself and it was discovered that the school had this information, then they would have been criticized for not taking action. The parents statement that she would pursue counseling is not a guarantee that would completely resolve the liability and mandated reporting responsibility. I think the school was between a rock and a hard place here and they acted according to what would ensure their protection and ensure the child had intervention.

[LibraryLover]

More thoughtful parents:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/this-europe-italy-transfixed-as-pilloried-mother-released-in-child-murder-case-657206.html

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/11/toddler-death-mother-guilty-manslaughter

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7734932.stm

 

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=76645

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12403093

 

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6368012-mother-kills-two-autistic-children-and-dials-911

[snipsnsnailsx5]

I read this article. Wow. I'd be so livid. Thank goodness I home school is all I have to say. I'm not saying that the child may/may not need therapy or professional help, but its the WAY the school went about it.

 

Not really the same, but its the first thing I thought of when I heard this story...and its what kicked off our jump into homeschooling.

Last year my 8 yr old was having behavior problems at school. Really it started in kindergarten. He's always been a "spirited" child. :) I worried about when he started school, and I was right to worry....

We constantly had meetings with the teachers and principal. We were totally willing to work with them and tried a variety of things they suggested at home. We even had him evaluated for ADD.

 

However...what broke the last straw was last year in 2nd grade when he kept getting pink ticket warnings, and three pink tickets a month equaled a red ticket which was an immediate removal from classroom to another classroom and a parent/teacher/principal meeting. We went through about three of these red ticket meetings from September to December. It was always the same things....be distracted, making noises in class and not stopping when he was told to, not doing his work...etc.

 

At the last red ticket meeting the principal said that if he had another red ticket then he'd be removed from the school, taken to In School Suspension at the middle school for the entire day. No recess or lunch break. Just in the In School Suspension (ISS) room from 8am to 3pm, eating his lunch at his desk.

I was shocked. I asked the principal if this kind of practice helps these young elementary students. He said it didn't, but its the only tool they have left. I was speechless.

 

Later, as in a few days, I told the teacher that I did NOT want my son removed from his school and taken to the middle school for a whole day of ISS. I'd rather come and pick him up for a day of OSS (out of school suspension) at home if it came to it. The teacher said she understood.

 

Then a couple months later I get a phonecall from the principal one day. He was calling to inform me that my son got another red ticket (for an accumulation of three pink/warning slips). He had already taken him to the middle school for ISS. I was SO mad. He didn't even tell me/ask me for my permission to remove my son from school, put him in his personal car, and drive him to another school. At least another adult was in the car with him, however the thought that they had the right to take my child off campus whenever they wanted to without my knowledge or permission was too much.

 

I immediately picked him up from the middle school ISS room and took him home. He never went back...

 

:chillpill:

[Sara R]

I agree! He is so young and this could most definitely traumatize him further. It's a little tricky, though, as I do see the other side. Schools know that many parents of troubled kids would do nothing to help their child. If they think the child is at risk, they are feeling that have to be SURE he is helped. At the very least, the mother should be able to come with him.

If I were the mom, I would be getting therapy and starting to homeschool.

 

The thing is, why does everyone think that the evaluation is automatically 100% "help"? At that age, separation from family causes significant damage. The standard for removing a child from the home without parental consent should be far higher, IMO.

[LibraryLover]

The thing is, why does everyone think that the evaluation is automatically 100% "help"? At that age, separation from family causes significant damage. The standard for removing a child from the home without parental consent should be far higher, IMO.

 

 

The doctors had concerns, apparently.

 

A child is not always safest at home, as sad as that may be.

 

This family might be an amazing and loving family, but every sngle day we read about about children who were not getting what they needed at home.

 

It's an impossible situation. I feel for them. I've also felt frustration when children have been sent home when they should not have been.

 

We never hear about children who were ok because they were sent home/not sent home...because they were ok. We don't know about children who were helped by certain intervention.

 

Children who are OK do not make the news.

 

I am always shocked by stories of little children with mental illness, and yet, even here on the boards, many families have expressed their pain about that very thing.

 

Nobody likes to consider that little children can be ill.

 

The fact this very young child had a therapist means that somewhere along the way there was some bit of concern.

 

It's all so sad.

Edited February 23, 2011 by LibraryLover

[FaithManor]

Gao Meiuxe,

 

Thanks for your response. My brother can not tell me, now that he is hired, what he is doing. So whatever it is he doesn't talk about it. My sister thinks that the asking the sibs to sign for this kind of background check (whether or not they did it or could even find records that far back) plus wanting every possible medical thing my parents could remember, etc. could have been a "psychological" test to see if he would comply. Is that possible? Sometimes it bothers me that we agreed to give up our privacy, but on the other hand, whatever computer work he is doing for the DoD, he is less stressed and much happier than before.

 

The whole thing was crazy. It took three months to do all of whatever they were doing before they decided to offer him whatever it is he does. At least he's employed. Hopefully, somewhere in the fine print I didn't sign away my rights to due process or something. It was crazy! So, I am sensitive to the things kept in permanent files now.

 

Dd is a paramedic student and pre-med. She told me this evening that when she seeks out a full-time paramedic job she'll have to sign a release to go back seven years which would be age 13. This ought to be a hoot! She was homeschooled 1st through 4th grade and then 7th-12th. Sure call me up! I'll tell what's in her permanent record. I guess if they call the sheriff's department they can find out she won the drug abuse prevention award for our county in her 6th grade year! LOL

 

Strange, strange world we live in. All that to say, I am very, very sad for this little boy and even if this doesn't follow him into adulthood, it's going to be in his records for childhood and if his parents keep in public and private school, it will be in his school records and it isn't likely that his parents' view of the events will be included.

 

Faith

[msjones]

There was so little info in the linked article that it's hard to say what really happened. (My computer is slooow so I didn't see the video.)

 

My guess is that there is much, much more to this story. I have never heard of any public school having the authority to commit a child to a medical facility. The school can't even provide an asthma inhaler without specific parental permission. (Am I wrong here? Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't work in CA schools...)

 

I hope something good can come out of this. With all the attention from this story, maybe they'll be more likely to get any help they might need.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

The doctors had concerns that was beyond the school's, apparently.

 

A child is not always safest at home, as sad as that may be.

 

This family might be an amazing and loving family, but every sngle day we read about about children who were not getting what they needed at home.

 

It's an impossible situation. I feel for them. I've also felt frustration when children have been sent home when they should not have been.

 

We never hear about children who were ok because they were sent home/not sent home...because they were ok. We don't know about children who were helped by certain intervention.

 

Children who are OK do not make the news.

 

I am always shocked by stories of little children with mental illness, and yet, even here on the boards, many families have expressed their pain about that very thing.

 

Nobody likes to consider that little children can be ill.

 

The fact this very young child had a therapist means that somewhere along the way there was some bit of concern.

 

It's all so sad.

 

The school would have been seriously negiligent if they had said, "Okay, just promise that you will get him help" and let it go.

 

SERIOUSLY NEGLIGENT.

 

We (all of us, myself included) tend to see the world through the lens of our own experience. Things like "I would be livid!" or "I would be outraged" are common on threads like these, but.......the kid needed help. He HAD to be evaluated. This really was the only way to ensure that. When he was evaluated, the Dr or other clinician made the assessment that he needed inpatient treatment. I doubt that this measure was taken lightly.

[Kate CA]

.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Kate CA

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

The school did not commit the child. They referred him for an evaluation. The intake counselor who evaluated the child placed the hold. IME that involves a credentialed doctor reviewing the case as well as the intake counselor.

 

I am not saying mistakes don't happen. I am not saying people always put as much effort as they can into resolving issues like these without hospitalization. I am sorry for your family and the things you have dealt with. But there is not enough information here to know if this school did anything wrong.

 

This is true. I just wish there was alternatives available as well. Having done rotations on psych wards locally they were not geared towards 6 year olds at all:(

[asta]

I agree that I have heard of 8 or 9 year olds doing that:( I was just thinking was there no alternative that could be equally effective in assessing the situation:( It is just hard to imagine a 6 having the where with all to do this:(. I agree that a threat to kill oneself must be taken seriously, but I wonder if he expressed a plan which would make it even more serious I think...

 

Dran-o.

 

Roof jump.

 

Walk into a body of water.

 

Stab themselves in the torso (it takes less than an inch to hit a major organ).

 

 

Four year olds commit suicide. Six year olds are certainly capable. Especially when we've pounded all sorts of "this bottle is dangerous, don't touch it" and "this knife is sharp and can cut you" and "be careful, stay away from the edge, you don't want to fall" messages into them. All a disturbed kid needs to do is a bit of reverse engineering.

 

 

a

[Nakia]

There was so little info in the linked article that it's hard to say what really happened. (My computer is slooow so I didn't see the video.)

 

My guess is that there is much, much more to this story. I have never heard of any public school having the authority to commit a child to a medical facility. The school can't even provide an asthma inhaler without specific parental permission. (Am I wrong here? Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't work in CA schools...)

 

I hope something good can come out of this. With all the attention from this story, maybe they'll be more likely to get any help they might need.

 

The school did not commit this boy to the psychiatric ward. The psychiatrist did. The school simply did what was prudent. They might have saved that boy's life. How were they to know the mother would do what she said she would do? Many parents don't. Like I said earlier, I feel for the boy and his mother. What a horrible situation. But again, I honestly believe the school acted appropriately.

[Nakia]

Dran-o.

 

Roof jump.

 

Walk into a body of water.

 

Stab themselves in the torso (it takes less than an inch to hit a major organ).

 

 

Four year olds commit suicide. Six year olds are certainly capable. Especially when we've pounded all sorts of "this bottle is dangerous, don't touch it" and "this knife is sharp and can cut you" and "be careful, stay away from the edge, you don't want to fall" messages into them. All a disturbed kid needs to do is a bit of reverse engineering.

 

 

a

 

Yep! And how many kids these days have free access to the internet? It isn't hard to find a way to kill yourself on there. :(

[MBM]

A friend of mine, a highly capable nurse, was in the exact situation years ago. Yes, the situation needs to be taken seriously, but the school could have helped the family in a less traumatic way, possibly by suggesting the child see an excellent therapist for a period of time. This is what my friend's school did, and it worked out well. Her son is now almost 18 and is doing very well.

Another friend of mine who is a professor emeritus at Northwestern U's Family Institute would be livid about a school handling a situation like this in that manner. Even though he's elderly, he still works with severely abused and traumatized kids (foster children, orphans, etc.). Adding even more stress to the situation is not a good idea. There are better ways to address the problem.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Gao Meiuxe,

 

Thanks for your response. My brother can not tell me, now that he is hired, what he is doing. So whatever it is he doesn't talk about it. My sister thinks that the asking the sibs to sign for this kind of background check (whether or not they did it or could even find records that far back) plus wanting every possible medical thing my parents could remember, etc. could have been a "psychological" test to see if he would comply. Is that possible? Sometimes it bothers me that we agreed to give up our privacy, but on the other hand, whatever computer work he is doing for the DoD, he is less stressed and much happier than before.

 

The whole thing was crazy. It took three months to do all of whatever they were doing before they decided to offer him whatever it is he does. At least he's employed. Hopefully, somewhere in the fine print I didn't sign away my rights to due process or something. It was crazy! So, I am sensitive to the things kept in permanent files now.

 

Dd is a paramedic student and pre-med. She told me this evening that when she seeks out a full-time paramedic job she'll have to sign a release to go back seven years which would be age 13. This ought to be a hoot! She was homeschooled 1st through 4th grade and then 7th-12th. Sure call me up! I'll tell what's in her permanent record. I guess if they call the sheriff's department they can find out she won the drug abuse prevention award for our county in her 6th grade year! LOL

 

Strange, strange world we live in. All that to say, I am very, very sad for this little boy and even if this doesn't follow him into adulthood, it's going to be in his records for childhood and if his parents keep in public and private school, it will be in his school records and it isn't likely that his parents' view of the events will be included.

 

Faith

 

OK. That makes sense. Basically, he is probably working with really sensitive stuff and they need to make absolutely sure that he isn't susceptible to blackmail. They checked his siblings b/c having immediate family members with serious issues can make you a "blackmail risk". If you are close with your family and they have drug problems for instance. If your sister comes to you b/c she owes a drug dealer $25,000, then you might think about taking up that Chinese guy who approached you about paying for information, KWIM? It is completely understandable.

 

You don't have anything to worry about, once they dig up your information and review it, it's done. No one is keeping an eye on you, LOL. Now, clearances have to be "reviewed and updated" every few years... so he may ask again, in case anything has changed, but it's no big deal.

 

Many people are not able to get Security Clearances b/c their spouses are from another country and they have too many foreign in-laws, etc. Blackmail susceptibility is the TOP thing they are looking for with these types of checks.

 

I don't think people realize just how "real" blackmail threats are. There are foreign people who are sent here for the express purpose of seeking out people who work with classified information and trying to buy that information. There are, at this very moment, NUMEROUS foreign intelligence workers researching members of the DoD and making/keeping files on them; what they do, family info., etc. That stuff doesn't just happen in movies, unfortunately. PSA: PLEASE remember this when posting ANYTHING online, if you or a family member works for DoD. It bugs DH to no end to see Military people posting pics of their family all over the internet, ESPECIALLY if they have clearances. Obviously, I'm not allowed to use my real name or post ANY pics of us, anywhere, plus I have to use "aliases" on my blog.... and DH "monitors" my blog, just to be sure, LOL.

[unsinkable]

For those of you that posted that psych record searches only went back to the age of 12 or 15, that's really interesting. I wonder if it had something to do with the nature of my brother's employment. He showed me the paperwork and it clearly stated that his entire medical history back to birth would be searched. Not only that, but he could not be considered for the position unless my sister and I also had a clearance check and our medical records and school records were searched back 9th grade or 14! Seriously, I signed that paperwork last March and so did my sis. To say we weren't happy about it, is to say the least! But, my brother really needed out of his old job and this was the position being offered so we relented. He felt so bad about having to involve us in it. Thankfully, both sis and I are pretty squeaky clean.

I wonder what the deal is?? I saw the paperwork and read it more than once because I did a double take when he presented it to me.

 

Dh knows for a fact that a previous employer went back as far as the age of 10 because the man actually asked dh about an incident from 5th grade. HMMMMM......

 

Faith

 

Isn't it your sis who is going thru some nasty stuff w/an ex? I am surprised that didn't come into play w/your brother's situation.

[Mom0012]

IMO, the school did the right thing. Yeah, the mom said she was going to get him into see a counselor. One never knows, though, if that is going to happen or if the counselor is just someone she knows at church who "feels led to help counsel people" and is not licensed or qualified. They HAD to ensure that he was getting help. May sound like CYA to some, but, really, there would have been outrage, too if they had sent him home to a mom who said she was going to get him help and it ended in tragedy.

 

Really? When did it become the school's responsibility to make these decisions for our children? Unless this mother was somehow deemed unfit, it seems that she probably knows her child best and should be making decisions for him. This is a parent's responsibility, not the schools. If the mother did not get him help that was needed, then she should bear the responsibility.

 

Honestly, while I don't want to see any child suffer, I would rather have a few slip through the cracks than the average parent's (and child's) fundamental rights being overriden by the school system or the government for the sake of a few. It just feels like we are becoming more and more of a police-state.

 

 

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

The school did not commit this boy to the psychiatric ward. The psychiatrist did. The school simply did what was prudent. They might have saved that boy's life. How were they to know the mother would do what she said she would do? Many parents don't. Like I said earlier, I feel for the boy and his mother. What a horrible situation. But again, I honestly believe the school acted appropriately.

 

Well, I guess we all have to remember that when the police come a-knocking on our doors because of some false accusation or misperception and be willing to turn our children over then because none of us are above having something like this happen, however sure we may feel that we are.

 

Honestly, just because some parents don't do the right thing doesn't mean all parents should be stripped of their rights. I watched the video and the mother seemed like a caring, loving mother. She was holding her son through a good part of the video and he clearly felt affection for her.

 

Lisa

Edited February 23, 2011 by LisaTheresa

[Nakia]

Well, I guess we all have to remember that when the police come a-knocking on our doors because of some false accusation or misperception and be willing to turn our children over then because none of us are above having something like this happen, however sure we may feel that we are.

 

Honestly, just because some parents don't do the right thing doesn't mean all parents should be stripped of their rights. I watched the video and the mother seemed like a caring, loving mother. She was holding her son through a good part of the video and he clearly felt affection for her.

 

Lisa

 

But Lisa, there was no false accusation or misperception. The child threatened to kill himself, and as much as we don't want to think about, kids do kill themselves every single day. I'm not saying she isn't a good mother, and we most definitely do not know the entire story. But if the school had sent the boy home and the mother had not followed up, and the child then killed himself, then what? Everyone would be coming down on the school officials for not doing their jobs. I don't see what the school did wrong by reporting the child's behavior.

[Cricket]

Really? When did it become the school's responsibility to make these decisions for our children? Unless this mother was somehow deemed unfit, it seems that she probably knows her child best and should be making decisions for him. This is a parent's responsibility, not the schools. If the mother did not get him help that was needed, then she should bear the responsibility.

 

Honestly, while I don't want to see any child suffer, I would rather have a few slip through the cracks than the average parent's (and child's) fundamental rights being overriden by the school system or the government for the sake of a few. It just feels like we are becoming more and more of a police-state.

 

 

 

Lisa

 

:iagree: completely. It comes down to one thing--whether the child "belongs" to the state or to the parent. She is the parent and it is up to her how she deals with her son. You cannot take away the rights of all parents to catch a few bad ones.

[FaithManor]

Hi Unsinkable,

 

You mentioned about my sis's soon to be ex. Yes, she is going through some bad stuff now. I supposed that when the background check is updated, if they check again, they may find that and black ball my brother. I don't know.

 

But, the whole thing was done and over with, as far as his security checks, before she knew what was going on with her stbxh, and the divorce papers weren't filed until almost the middle of June. He had been on the job for several weeks by then. So, it is something to consider...will they still let him have his clearance if they drudge through the details of her divorce.

 

I dont' know....sigh....I don't know. We haven't seen stbxh-in law in over a year. However, I doubt that this will count in my brother's favor. Maybe he'll have a lead on a different position by that time. At least he got the job, before her marriage nightmare came to the forefront.

 

Faith

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Hi Unsinkable,

 

You mentioned about my sis's soon to be ex. Yes, she is going through some bad stuff now. I supposed that when the background check is updated, if they check again, they may find that and black ball my brother. I don't know.

 

But, the whole thing was done and over with, as far as his security checks, before she knew what was going on with her stbxh, and the divorce papers weren't filed until almost the middle of June. He had been on the job for several weeks by then. So, it is something to consider...will they still let him have his clearance if they drudge through the details of her divorce.

 

I dont' know....sigh....I don't know. We haven't seen stbxh-in law in over a year. However, I doubt that this will count in my brother's favor. Maybe he'll have a lead on a different position by that time. At least he got the job, before her marriage nightmare came to the forefront.

 

Faith

 

Seriously, your sisters divorce really shouldn't have any sway on his clearance. The only thing that they would look into would be if she ended up bankrupt or 6 figures in debt. Even that wouldn't prevent him from getting his clearance renewed. Those are things that his boss would just need to know, and keep in mind, to watch out for suspicious behavior (from your brother).

 

Seriously, don't fret over it, LOL. As long as your brother isn't getting into financial trouble and none of you guys are participating in treasonous or illegal activities, it will be fine :) People worrying about stuff like this, when there is no need, causes them to tense up on the lie detector tests.... and THAT would be bad, and THAT might cause them to lose a clearance... but the divorce is fine.

[FaithManor]

Gao Meixue,

 

Thank you for your reasurances! I really appreciate it. Thankfully, her debt is $15,000.00 in student loans and about $10,000.00 on her credit card which is all "lawyer debt". She has a decent, though not high paying job, as a social worker assisting in a parenting program for children with serious behavioral problems in low income families. It's rewarding work because, believe it or not, the county actually happened on a program that is helpful to parents.

 

I do appreciate your input. It's very enlightening!

 

Faith

[Mom0012]

But Lisa, there was no false accusation or misperception. The child threatened to kill himself, and as much as we don't want to think about, kids do kill themselves every single day. I'm not saying she isn't a good mother, and we most definitely do not know the entire story. But if the school had sent the boy home and the mother had not followed up, and the child then killed himself, then what? Everyone would be coming down on the school officials for not doing their jobs. I don't see what the school did wrong by reporting the child's behavior.

 

I guess in my mind, the school should have reported the behavior to the parents and let them take it from there. I can't understand the need to go over the parents' heads. Sure, there are some parents that don't care, but this mother clearly does. If the parents had not followed up and something happened to the child, then it is their responsibility to bear. I just don't understand the thinking that the school knows better than the parent.

 

And, yes, the child did draw a frightening picture, but from what I understood in the video, the mother said it was a copy of something from the video games he was playing and he was upset because his father was being deployed and he hadn't been allowed to stay home. Maybe the mother knew it was an act of anger or attention-seeking. She had also agreed to get him an appointment with his own therapist that day.

 

I guess this is so upsetting to me because while neither of my children have ever done something like this, I can see some crazy mixup happening and my own child being taken away. I think a lot of people that say the school did the right thing think this could never happen to them. Would most people honestly feel okay with the school or the police taking these actions against their will? Because if it is okay for this woman, then we better say it is okay for us. Clearly this woman did not feel it was the right thing for her son.

 

Lisa

[swimmermom3]

A friend of mine, a highly capable nurse, was in the exact situation years ago. Yes, the situation needs to be taken seriously, but the school could have helped the family in a less traumatic way, possibly by suggesting the child see an excellent therapist for a period of time. This is what my friend's school did, and it worked out well. Her son is now almost 18 and is doing very well.

 

Another friend of mine who is a professor emeritus at Northwestern U's Family Institute would be livid about a school handling a situation like this in that manner. Even though he's elderly, he still works with severely abused and traumatized kids (foster children, orphans, etc.). Adding even more stress to the situation is not a good idea. There are better ways to address the problem.

 

I would agree that there had to be a better way to handle this. If the child is not seriously messed up already, he will be now. If you yank a child who is already distressed or stressed from their classroom, throw them in an ambulance and then admit them to a hospital for three days, you quite possibly have created extensive damage in the hope of "helping." We were told that once the doors close at the psychiatric ward, you do not have access to your child. Imagine the terror for the child of feeling abandoned, even if their home life is not the best. Intake done without context seems irresponsible.

[kchara]

I've never had to go back to birth for any of my security clearances, and neither has DH (who holds a very high clearance). It's always been anything under 15 didn't count. I went to a psych when I was child and b/c it was before I was 15, I didn't have to list it when I enlisted.

 

I've also never had to go back more than 10 yrs into my history for anything. Going to a psych for PPD didn't have any negative repercussions on my most recent clearance.

 

Even with it over 15, you used to be able to get a waiver. I got one (had therapy during my parent's divorce), but DH, who's been dealing with enlistment stuff much more recently, said that they've stopped all waivers for the time being, so that might have changed.

[unsinkable]

Hi Unsinkable,

 

You mentioned about my sis's soon to be ex. Yes, she is going through some bad stuff now. I supposed that when the background check is updated, if they check again, they may find that and black ball my brother. I don't know.

 

But, the whole thing was done and over with, as far as his security checks, before she knew what was going on with her stbxh, and the divorce papers weren't filed until almost the middle of June. He had been on the job for several weeks by then. So, it is something to consider...will they still let him have his clearance if they drudge through the details of her divorce.

 

I dont' know....sigh....I don't know. We haven't seen stbxh-in law in over a year. However, I doubt that this will count in my brother's favor. Maybe he'll have a lead on a different position by that time. At least he got the job, before her marriage nightmare came to the forefront.

 

Faith

 

Well, I hope for the best for both your sis & brother! :grouphug:

[Nakia]

I guess in my mind, the school should have reported the behavior to the parents and let them take it from there. I can't understand the need to go over the parents' heads. Sure, there are some parents that don't care, but this mother clearly does. If the parents had not followed up and something happened to the child, then it is their responsibility to bear. I just don't understand the thinking that the school knows better than the parent.

 

And, yes, the child did draw a frightening picture, but from what I understood in the video, the mother said it was a copy of something from the video games he was playing and he was upset because his father was being deployed and he hadn't been allowed to stay home. Maybe the mother knew it was an act of anger or attention-seeking. She had also agreed to get him an appointment with his own therapist that day.

 

I guess this is so upsetting to me because while neither of my children have ever done something like this, I can see some crazy mixup happening and my own child being taken away. I think a lot of people that say the school did the right thing think this could never happen to them. Would most people honestly feel okay with the school or the police taking these actions against their will? Because if it is okay for this woman, then we better say it is okay for us. Clearly this woman did not feel it was the right thing for her son.

 

Lisa

 

I totally understand that fear of something happening! I worry about those things, too. I guess I have seen so much during my 13 years as a nurse that I feel like we can't be too careful with stuff like this. I really hope and pray that the little boy and his family receive the help they need.

[Joanne]

I work at a school and am nearly finished training as a therapist/counselor.

 

Having been a staunch, ideological and political homeschooler, I get the reaction shown in this thread. Many times over the years, I would have been right.there.with.you.

 

This child has a history of having mental health support needs. This child, at 6, and supposedly sensitive (the separation anxiety), participates in playing at least minimally violent video games (I've got 2 teen boys - I am NOT against video games, but they sure didn't play violent/graphic ones at 6!). This kid has ALREADY seen a therapist. I think "separation axiety" at 6 is probably a misnomer.

 

 

"When any student indicates a desire to take his or her own life, the LAUSD is required to follow strict protocols to ensure the safety of the student ... The safety of LAUSD students is paramount. We did the right thing here."

 

In my state, if a minor child approaches a mental health professional with a life threatening situation, that mental health provider can see the child without parental consent. I can't think of any other way to protect the best interest of the child.

 

 

Jack was released after 48 hours, but his mother says the experience will have lasting effects.

 

Of course it will. :001_huh: Stating you want to die is a big deal. Either the kid will learn that wanting to die is a big, not typically deal, or he will learn that it is not an appropriate sentiment to share casually. Any adult in a child's life HAS TO be able to respond to that statement quickly and dramatically.

 

Yes, the child will remember. Please note, though, the sensationalistic part of the journalism. Nothing in either article indicates that this mom was denied *access* to the child. And nothing was shared (appropriately so, given informed consent, HIPPA, etc) about the reasons the child stayed.

 

Does everyone in vehement opposition or aghast or "that's why we homeschool" think that a child can go through life without "lasting effects" situations? This child *already* had challenges that 6 year olds do not.

 

I truly think the reaction in this thread is an over reaction. It mades news because it is unusual. It is a big deal because it doesn't happen frequently. Institutions, caring adults, adults in authority, leaders and professionals have to have some protocol and options to protect minors. The sad reality is that minors, even very young ones, DO take their own lives. And a percentage of those have lives and home situations that fuel their wanting to leave life.

 

There is no perfect protocol for an event like this. There is no way to both match the urgency of the situation and eliminate all fall out. A 6 year old threatened to KILL HIMSELF. This thread wants to make it about parental rights. :confused:

[2squared]

School officials and medical personnel are parents just like us. These aren't fun or easy decisions, and I am sure they aren't worried about global parental rights when dealing with a mentally ill 6yo who says he wants to kill himself. My guess is they are worried about the immediate safety of one 6yo.

 

My dh is a county prosecutor who has to make difficult decisions for children. All those cases weigh heavily on his heart. When deciding if parental rights need to be terminated, I see him looking at our children and feeling the pain of not being their father. I also see him looking at our safe, healthy children and the worry for other children who are not safe or healthy. These are very, very difficult situations for all involved.

[Mom0012]

I work at a school and am nearly finished training as a therapist/counselor.

 

Having been a staunch, ideological and political homeschooler, I get the reaction shown in this thread. Many times over the years, I would have been right.there.with.you.

 

This child has a history of having mental health support needs. This child, at 6, and supposedly sensitive (the separation anxiety), participates in playing at least minimally violent video games (I've got 2 teen boys - I am NOT against video games, but they sure didn't play violent/graphic ones at 6!). This kid has ALREADY seen a therapist. I think "separation axiety" at 6 is probably a misnomer.

 

 

 

In my state, if a minor child approaches a mental health professional with a life threatening situation, that mental health provider can see the child without parental consent. I can't think of any other way to protect the best interest of the child.

 

 

 

 

Of course it will. :001_huh: Stating you want to die is a big deal. Either the kid will learn that wanting to die is a big, not typically deal, or he will learn that it is not an appropriate sentiment to share casually. Any adult in a child's life HAS TO be able to respond to that statement quickly and dramatically.

 

Yes, the child will remember. Please note, though, the sensationalistic part of the journalism. Nothing in either article indicates that this mom was denied *access* to the child. And nothing was shared (appropriately so, given informed consent, HIPPA, etc) about the reasons the child stayed.

 

Does everyone in vehement opposition or aghast or "that's why we homeschool" think that a child can go through life without "lasting effects" situations? This child *already* had challenges that 6 year olds do not.

 

I truly think the reaction in this thread is an over reaction. It mades news because it is unusual. It is a big deal because it doesn't happen frequently. Institutions, caring adults, adults in authority, leaders and professionals have to have some protocol and options to protect minors. The sad reality is that minors, even very young ones, DO take their own lives. And a percentage of those have lives and home situations that fuel their wanting to leave life.

 

There is no perfect protocol for an event like this. There is no way to both match the urgency of the situation and eliminate all fall out. A 6 year old threatened to KILL HIMSELF. This thread wants to make it about parental rights. :confused:

 

I guess I just can't help myself here. Yes, children take their lives, but I think it's a fairly new phenomenon that the schools and mental health profession think they have more to say about how the situation is handled than the child's parents, who know and love him. It's not like the mother said she didn't care and wasn't going to do anything about it. And this is about the child's rights as well -- to feel that his parents are able to protect him and keep him safe and that somebody from the school can't just nab him and send him off to an institution unless his parents feel this is what he needs.

 

There may not be a perfect protocol, but whatever the protocol might be, should be up to the parents. Honestly, if you felt your child did not need to be committed and you understood what was going on with him, would you be okay with the school or some other mental health professional making that decision for you? What gives them the right to make these decisions for our children? I have met my share of incompetent administrators and mental health professionals, which only makes me feel more strongly about this. What was accomplished by committing him for 72 hours?

 

And perhaps it did make the news because it was an isolated incident. But it could easily become the standard if these actions are supported.

 

Lisa

 

ETA: I am done with this thread. My comments are getting redundant and I find it too upsetting that so many people seem to think this is okay "for someone else's child" because I don't believe for a second that anyone would be okay if their own child were committed against their will. I wish we could block a thread the same way we can block individual people on this board. :001_smile:

Edited February 24, 2011 by LisaTheresa

[MBM]

Military kids deal with separation anxiety often. I've lived on bases and have seen it manifest itself in various ways time and again. Knowing a parent is going off to a war zone only compounds the problem because children know that parent is now gone and might not return.

 

From what I've read, the mother is thinking about homeschooling. If so, the child will now have to deal with a father who has left, a mother who is possibly going to be even more stressed (at least initially), and losing his former routine and maybe some friendships. IMO, although the school might have been well-meaning, the new changes in this child's life could create even more strife for him. I know I would feel threatened if a school did this with my child, and I, too, would probably begin homeschooling.

Edited February 24, 2011 by MBM