If your kids used Singapore Math ...

[beaglemamma]

If your kids used Singapore Math through 6A, did you use IP and CWP?

 

Or maybe I should say has anyone used SM through 6A without using IP and CWP? And if so, how did your kids fare in standardized testing and upper level math?

 

I have read so many threads on here that make it sound like you almost have to use these extra books, but I really don't want to add them in and cause tears and extend the school day by an hour if it's not necessary.

 

I'd really appreciate feedback from those of you who have walked this path before me!

 

Thanks!

[Brenda in MA]

Hi,

 

My current 9th grader used Singapore PM 1 - 6. Back then, the supplemental books had different names which I don't remember. One of the supplements was basically extra practice at the same level as the text/workbook, the other supplement was harder word problems.

 

I did get these extra books, but we didn't use them regularly. We used the one with extra practice at the same level as summer work, and he occasionally worked some of the word problems from the other one.

 

My son has gone on to complete Algebra 1 & Geometry in the Dolciani/Brown series and is currently working in Algebra 2. He's tested very well on his annual standardized testing in math. Math isn't his favorite subject, but I'm confident that he has a very firm foundation.

 

The biggest "hurdle" we had in going from SM to a more traditional Algebra series was getting my son to write out the algebra and show all his steps. Singapore does such a great job of teaching kids to compute mentally that he just didn't see the need to show his work in Algebra, and he was making a lot of careless mistakes because of that. Several years post-Singapore, he understands that he needs to show his work and that it's actually vital so he can go back and check his work on tests, etc. He's also doing very well using his math in his science courses (e.g. Chemistry, Physics), which I think is a good indicator that he really understands the math.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

[cbollin]

my oldest did through 6B by end of 6th grade. I didn't even know the extra books existed. so, I have felt fine with out them. didn't know they existed.

I don't really do standardized testing until 9th grade and then only to get ready for taking ACT. So I don't have any test scores to share.

 

After Singapore 6B, she tested into Saxon Algebra I, but we made the decision to do 8.7 in 7th grade for long term planning purposes, Since then she's done Alg I, and Jacob's geometry and scores very high on tests in the programs.

 

my dd's was similar about showing her work at first, but now she knows to and sees the reasons that it helps when you need to figure out what you did wrong.

 

-crystal

[dhudson]

My kids haven't used the other books although I do have them drill their math facts but they've tested well.

 

My oldest ds went through 6b and is now in NEM book 2 and is finishing LOF Algebra I and has done well. He also tests well on Standardized Tests.

 

He also has really struggled with showing his work but I think he's finally getting the hang of it even if it frustrates him to do so. I can't help him if he's made a mistake if I can't see it.:glare:

[Miss Marple]

My most recent experience is with ds#4. He did straight Singapore through 6B without any supplements. We always tested him a year ahead on the ITBS and he always scored 98-99 percentile (through elementary years). He did the regular ACT at our local university last year (grade 8) and scored a 21 on the math section - he had finished LOF Beginning Algebra but had very little geometry at that time of the test.

[siloam]

If your kids used Singapore Math through 6A, did you use IP and CWP?

 

Or maybe I should say has anyone used SM through 6A without using IP and CWP? And if so, how did your kids fare in standardized testing and upper level math?

 

I have read so many threads on here that make it sound like you almost have to use these extra books, but I really don't want to add them in and cause tears and extend the school day by an hour if it's not necessary.

 

I'd really appreciate feedback from those of you who have walked this path before me!

 

Thanks!

 

This might help or not (feel free to disregard). ;)

 

Jennifer over on Singapore.com, the author of the HIG's recommends then if you are going to use the higher level Singapore math books because it gets the child used to having to tackle and think through difficult problems.

 

That said she never state that were a must to do the higher level Singapore texts (just got the child use to the thinking work needed for those) and never said they were necessary to the Singapore program.

 

Heather

[KAR120C]

If your kids used Singapore Math through 6A, did you use IP and CWP?

 

Or maybe I should say has anyone used SM through 6A without using IP and CWP? And if so, how did your kids fare in standardized testing and upper level math?

I don't know if the IP books were available back then... I think if I had known about them we would have at least taken a look, but we did use the CWP (and the Topical Problem Sums before that - basically the same thing).

 

DS did fine, and has done very well on the ACT and SAT, NEM 1 & 2, Art of Problem Solving.... He is particularly "mathy" so I can't say if it was the curriculum or the kid, but I don't think we were lacking anything.

 

I do like the CWP. if you can add that in I think it's worth the time, but if it's causing tears it's not worth that.... We did it a semester to a year behind the regular books, and only a couple problems a day - like 10-15 minutes or so.

[BakersDozen]

We use the CWP as a wrap-up rather than a regular/daily part of our math program. I like seeing how my dc retain the information and particularly enjoy doing the Challenging Problems with them. We don't do every problem - many of them I will simply ask my dc how they would set the problem up. So after each child finishes levels A and B they then go through the CWP.

[Julie in MN]

We used Singapore through 7th grade and went straight into Algebra without any Singapore extras. I bought one or two, found them hard to schedule, and set them aside.

 

We did lots of other math things such as a lot of drill, but they weren't "more of the same."

 

The transition to Algebra was big with all those problems. But I don't necessarily think making the transition earlier would have made it easier on him. And after a while, I realized that he didn't need to do *all* of the problems in early Algebra, due to his strong Singapore base, and we could build up the number of 8th grade problems more gradually. (We used Math Relief for algebra.)

 

Julie

[StephanieZ]

All my dc have used SM. The older two are SM grads; youngest is is PM4.

 

Our general routine is to use approximately 1-2 levels of IP books during PM. Generally one level around 3 and then 6. We do the level of IP following completion of that level of PM. The only real reason I use IP is to slow them down just a bit. . . let things digest before moving on, but not let them forget anything.

 

I've never used any other supplemental SM books. However, we do also use Miquon (all 6 books) during K-3.

 

We rarely standardize test, but when we do, all 3 kids are in the high 90 percentiles in all areas, including math.

 

My oldest did algebra beautifully, and is now doing great with geometry. My second is in algebra now, doing beautifully.

 

Math is easy for all 3 dc. Possibly due to SM or else to strong math genes. :) I'm a big fan of SM, but do not believe that any supplemental books are vital so long as you are using the Text and WkBk thoughtfully. (Actually reading the text & trying to follow the techniques as taught.)

[Lori D.]

Older DS used Singapore through 6A/B exclusively, and I never even knew IP and CWP existed. He did super with Singapore, and years later in high school, scored in the 90s on the PSAT.

 

Younger DS is our math struggler, and used MUS, but we also supplemented with Singapore (again, never knew about IP or CWP), and Singapore really boosted the ability to problem solve. Interestingly, for struggling so with math, he always scored WAY above average in math on the annual IOWA standardized tests.

 

Rather than increasing the workload with more Singapore, I'd suggest using other math resources from time to time to supplement or occasionally substitute for Singapore, to help expand the math-thinking and seeing math from more than one point of view. At any rate, that really worked well for our DSs.

 

BEST of luck in your math journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Lori D.

[beaglemamma]

Thank you ALL so much for replying! It's one thing for me to ask my friends who also have 2nd graders; it's a totally different thing for me to gain the perspective of those of you who have BTDT.

 

The biggest "hurdle" we had in going from SM to a more traditional Algebra series was getting my son to write out the algebra and show all his steps.

 

my dd's was similar about showing her work at first, but now she knows to and sees the reasons that it helps when you need to figure out what you did wrong.

 

He also has really struggled with showing his work but I think he's finally getting the hang of it even if it frustrates him to do so. I can't help him if he's made a mistake if I can't see it.:glare:

 

Glad to have a little heads-up here! Dh is a high school math teacher, and he makes dd show her work on some of the problems, especially when they give her a large space with the word problems. I tend to think it's not necessary because "mental math is one of the strengths of Singapore," but you all have given me a different perspective on this! :001_smile:

 

I bought one or two, found them hard to schedule, and set them aside.

 

I KNOW!!! Julie, every time I read your posts here or on the MFW boards, I think we are probably twins separated at birth! :lol: I keep reading posts from so many people on here who add in these extra books, and I'm wondering how in the world they get it all done! That was actually how this question originated. I was looking through the books seeing how I could schedule them all in, and I just shook my head and said, "There's just no way!"

 

Rather than increasing the workload with more Singapore, I'd suggest using other math resources from time to time to supplement or occasionally substitute for Singapore, to help expand the math-thinking and seeing math from more than one point of view.

 

My oldest ds went through 6b and is now in NEM book 2 and is finishing LOF Algebra I and has done well.

 

Lori, this is a GREAT idea! I've never thought of it that way before. And Dawn, I do plan to use LoF when we're at that point because I've heard of so many kids who just LOVE it! Wish it had been around 20 years ago when I was in school!

 

Thank you so much, ladies, for sharing your experiences and helping me think through this!

[SkateLeft]

Thanks for asking this question, and thank you so much for everyone who replied!

 

My son is going to start 5A soon, and we've never used any of the extra books. Half the time, he doesn't even need the textbook. He just has an intuitive grasp of mathematics. I try to encourage a lot of living math, and he's currently using Thinkwell 6 just to change things up for a bit. He also works with Challenge Math.

 

He DOES struggle to show his work, and that's something I need to push. I've also tried to encourage him to talk through how he solves things, because he seems to lack the language to explain things sometimes too. He does everything in his head, and I know that won't fly in upper level math.

 

I usually don't worry about IP and CWP, but every so often people mention them and I start second-guessing myself. My middle schooler DID use them and she went through 6B. I sometimes wonder if I'm putting my son at a disadvantage by not bothering with them.

[Daniel Kirk]

!2 yos is nearly done with 6A. We have used Singapore all through, but supplemented with Saxon because he needs more drill. (But <i>nowhere near</i> the amount of drill Saxon provides. We do the practice problem set for each lesson, and <i>one</i> mixed practice every 5-10 lessons to check retention, and ditch all the rest.)

 

We tried CWP, but ds found them MUCH too difficult. We set them aside, came back later, and found they were more useful for reviewing and applying math skills several years below the recommended level. What's IP?

[beaglemamma]

What's IP?

 

Intensive Practice. The way I understand it, there is Extra Practice (EP), which is more work on the same level as the workbook, Intense Practice (IP), which is more work that varies from the same level as the workbook to the level of Challenging Word Problems, and then there's Challenging Word Problems (CWP), which is on a much more difficult level than the workbook.

[dirty ethel rackham]

If your kids used Singapore Math through 6A, did you use IP and CWP?

 

Or maybe I should say has anyone used SM through 6A without using IP and CWP? And if so, how did your kids fare in standardized testing and upper level math?

 

I have read so many threads on here that make it sound like you almost have to use these extra books, but I really don't want to add them in and cause tears and extend the school day by an hour if it's not necessary.

 

I'd really appreciate feedback from those of you who have walked this path before me!

 

Thanks!

 

We tried to incorporate CWP in our math curriculum. But, my kids just hated it. They felt it was overkill. Instead of doing math for 45 minutes a day, which seemed like a manageable amount, they ended up doing it for 90 minutes. It was killing their enjoyment of math. We abandoned it after less than a year. My boys have moved on to Art of Problem Solving and are doing very well in it. They have always done well on standardized tests. My oldest taught himself the trig he needed for AP Physics B before he had covered it in math. If he didn't have a good background, I don't think he could have done it. He got a 5 on that AP exam. His SAT math subscore is in the mid 700's. Respectable in my opinion. So, I would gauge how well they are doing on the practices and the reviews before determining whether or not they needed it.