Holly IN Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I need a quick answer. I found several threads on this topic. One is a very long thread. ;) which I subbed and will read later. I have to go to work in about an hour. Background first: My son is a 7th grader. Right now he is taking a class at the co-op called the Human Body class using Jeannie Fulbright's human body book. All year he had to write an essay every other week. I am shocked that she is requiring essays and it is destroying my son's love of learning about the human body. This kid wants to be a dr so he really loves learning about human body. When it comes to write an essay I have to help him by pulling him out and talking him through this. WTM has a much delayed approach with writing than others do. (that is one of the things that I LOVE about WTM) We do use TOG but they are alot faster in the writing dept for younger kids which I do not like very well. I use the WTM writing and the TOG for history. I do not remember ever writing an essay when I was in middle school and that was back in the 1980s. (Yes I am old!! :D) My question: Is this the norm to start essay writing this young??What is a normal essay length for a 7th grader? I am concerned that my son is not enjoying the class due to essays. I haven't even approached the teacher yet because I am using this as an opportunity to teach him about essays however it is pulling his grade down due to him not getting a good grade on it. (I guess I am also a bad essay writer:confused:) (this kid is more of a science/math kid not a humanities kid like my older son is) I will read the other threads for more information. Thanks! Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 :bigear: I asked my teacher-friend was the expectations were in our district for 5th grade. She said a good 5-paragraph essay by the end of the year w/ proper punctuation and no spelling errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I don't think an essay every other week is unreasonable for seventh grade. What are the requirements for the essays? Have you listened to SWB's audio lectures about logic stage writing? She goes over outlining and rewriting, step by step. That might be a good method for your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I thought those outlines and rewrites weren't original content though? They are supposed to be outlines directly from an encyclopedia or a text and then the outline is used to rewrite in their own words. I was under the impression that SWB suggests that original content essays aren't necessary until high school. I could be completely mis-interpreting the information though. Is the original poster's dc having to come up with original content essays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENEEinVA Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 A 5 paragraph essay every other week sounds pretty normal for 7th grade. My 8th grade dd has been in a writing class (IEW) for the past 3 years, and she has been writing at least that much if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 My answer would depend on a few things: is it an actual essay (based on individual research and interpretation) vs. a report, how much other writing is taking place outside of the class, and are the individual child's writing skills on grade level. My kids write more than that in 7th grade, but they only have 1 major writing assignment per week. So it isn't as if they are writing an essay in science and an essay in something else simultaneously in 7th. They also have assignments that match their personal abilities. And many of them just started learning essays in 7th grade. (my current 6th grader didn't write her first essay until mid-yr this yr and I consider her quite advanced for her age.) I also agree that there is a distinction between an essay and a report. If it is a report, that is less work than an essay. That is more of a summarization of info. I would question the requirement of researching and synthesizing info into a unique contention every other wk for a 7th grader. If it is truly an essay, I would consider it too much work. (fwiw......I would probably consider it too much anyway b/c I wouldn't want so much of their writing to focus just on science, but I don't like giving control over my homeschool to outside co-ops anyway!! :lol:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 This was about par for our co-op. However, the essays were part of a writing class and those assignments were also coordinated with the history and literature courses. Personally, I would think that the person teaching Human Body really doesn't have any idea how to make it a fun class. This is very much why I taught the sciences in our co-op. I wanted my kids to do science not learn essay writing in science class. There are better venues for practicing writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I also agree that there is a distinction between an essay and a report. If it is a report, that is less work than an essay. That is more of a summarization of info. I would question the requirement of researching and synthesizing info into a unique contention every other wk for a 7th grader. If it is truly an essay, I would consider it too much work. This is what I was trying to say...8 said it much more eloquently.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 I thought those outlines and rewrites weren't original content though? They are supposed to be outlines directly from an encyclopedia or a text and then the outline is used to rewrite in their own words. I was under the impression that SWB suggests that original content essays aren't necessary until high school. I could be completely mis-interpreting the information though. Is the original poster's dc having to come up with original content essays? Exactly my thoughts. No he is not having to come up with original essays. Lots of creativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 A 5 paragraph essay every other week sounds pretty normal for 7th grade. My 8th grade dd has been in a writing class (IEW) for the past 3 years, and she has been writing at least that much if not more. This is SCIENCE. I had planned on several writing exercise for him and can't do it because of these essays. I can understand once a month for science but every other week for science??? Where he is graded for grammar content as well.....:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 My answer would depend on a few things: is it an actual essay (based on individual research and interpretation) vs. a report, how much other writing is taking place outside of the class, and are the individual child's writing skills on grade level. lol:) Ok here is his assignment: Science project = report Essay is another assignment he has to as well and both are due next Monday. He has to answer several questions as well as be creative about it. HUH?????? She wants his thoughts and his opinion. I require a lot of my 7th grader for writing but had to change things on my part due to the essays. I can understand once a month essay for this subject but every other week???? For science??? when he has English which is Lit, grammar, writing and so on. We use TOG and we know there is a lot of writing there!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Thanks guys. Will try to just do a basic essay and get it over with. He only gets 10 points for the essay which I am not happy about!! Too much time for such little points. sigh Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Sounds like this teacher needs to be teaching composition rather than science. I'm with you on this Holly. It definitely sounds like overkill for a science class. I would expect this out of a lit class and maybe even a lit based history class but not science...at least not the way we do science. I probably wouldn't do well in a co-op class like that because I would be inclined to let the teacher know we would be opting out of those 10 points and then let my dc do some extra science experiments at home and assign my own 10 points. That is assuming that you have final say over his grade. I'm sorry he isn't enjoying the class. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Sounds like this teacher needs to be teaching composition rather than science. I'm with you on this Holly. It definitely sounds like overkill for a science class. I would expect this out of a lit class and maybe even a lit based history class but not science...at least not the way we do science. I probably wouldn't do well in a co-op class like that because I would be inclined to let the teacher know we would be opting out of those 10 points and then let my dc do some extra science experiments at home and assign my own 10 points. That is assuming that you have final say over his grade. I'm sorry he isn't enjoying the class. :( :iagree: Maybe you could have a talk with her. Maybe it hasn't occurred to her that creative writing assignments about anatomy aren't all that possible for logic stage students who are learning about anatomy for the first time. Maybe the rest of the kids are drowning, too, and she has no clue why. She could very reasonably offer the alternative assignment of a factual report on the material studied each week. An outline and a rewrite, well-crafted, ought to be satisfactory to a coop teacher. How accessible is she? Would she take kindly to the suggestion that she listen to SWB's logic stage writing lecture to learn what is appropriate for kids this age? Edited February 18, 2011 by Dulcimeramy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Ok here is his assignment: Science project = report Essay is another assignment he has to as well and both are due next Monday. He has to answer several questions as well as be creative about it. HUH?????? She wants his thoughts and his opinion. I require a lot of my 7th grader for writing but had to change things on my part due to the essays. I can understand once a month essay for this subject but every other week???? For science??? when he has English which is Lit, grammar, writing and so on. We use TOG and we know there is a lot of writing there!! Yep, too much for 7th grade science IMHO. I would speak to the teacher and tell her that you can't keep up with the writing schedule and will be having him turn in alternative assignments to you. (but like I said, I am not willing to relinquish control over classes anyway. At least not prior to high school. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Are these lab reports or actual essays? In 7th grade, I do remember having to write lab reports every week for science but I can only remember one essay (a biography of a scientist). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Are these lab reports or actual essays? In 7th grade, I do remember having to write lab reports every week for science but I can only remember one essay (a biography of a scientist). Actual essays. This is research essay and forming your opinion essay. I would have assigned a research paper into a project not an essay though. I would have just assigned outlining for a research assignment. Thats me though. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohdanigirl Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I don't feel it s too much work.... I seem to recall having to do plenty of essays and reports in 7th grade. The only thing I take issue with is the "be creative" part. For a Science class? I don't understand why people are so attracted to creative writing, but that is another thread. Any how, I am 32 and attended a San Diego County Public School. Reports every other week were common place for most of my classes. Essays, I think I wrote at least one big one towards the end of the semester for each class. These included citations, bibliography, etc. History and English classes required much more. I even had a report to do for a Math class, and once for P.E.. I was also required to show class notes to my home room teacher, and rewrite them as needed. Also, all reports/essays were MLA format, typed, and counted for words. My teachers would dock points if I had added "fluff" words to meet the word minimum. There was also a word maximum count, so we had to learn to get to the the point and combine sentences. I think 7th grade is just when most dc are forced to make a big leap. Just my take. Danielle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 Majority of you feel this is too much. I agree. Will have to figure out a way to talk to the teacher. For me science is more about discovery and lab based. Somebody bought up creative writing. He also had several of those in the science class. There are too much writing for a science class and not enough lab work esp at a 7th grade level. I do not require my high school to do essays or creative writing for Science. I will for health as our health class will be research based class. Thanks for the input guys!! @Danielle....even in high school I never had creative writing or essays in any of my science classes. They all were book and lab based assignments and one major project but no paper writing. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohdanigirl Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 @Danielle....even in high school I never had creative writing or essays in any of my science classes. They all were book and lab based assignments and one major project but no paper writing. Holly Yes, I really don't get the attraction. Also, I think I should add, I would have learned much more in Science if it had been more lab based. I was just listing what I saw as the norm growing up, and still see many of my nieces and nephews do. Danielle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 When the intent is to focus on the topic (and not to learn something new about writing) I have generally given a specific point to make, like "the importance of research into artificial kidneys" and specific readings to draw from... like "the short article you already read about the research, these two articles about kidney dialysis and transplant, and the chapter from your biology book that you read yesterday about the excretory system." In this kind of assignment, grammar and spelling are only minimally important (please spell "kidney dialysis" and "excretory system" correctly, they're right in front of you), although if he were making a lot of related mistakes they might turn themselves into a writing lesson... What I really want is for him to put this bit of information in its proper context. It's not to make up anything new, to be creative, or to do extensive research... just to stick a few facts and and their relationships in order. It's more of a report than an essay. Although he's using facts from reading to support an argument, it's a fairly obvious argument and only requires basic familiarity with the subject. If that were what she's asking for, I wouldn't mind (although we're very science-heavy here... I could see it being overkill for others). But if she really wants creative writing, or extensive research, or forming an original opinion, or several questions addressed in one paper... that seems like too much even for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 But if she really wants creative writing, or extensive research, or forming an original opinion, or several questions addressed in one paper... that seems like too much even for me. This is what she is wanting. If this was a report style then I would have no problems with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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