Anita in NC Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 We are not morning people. We rarely get up before 8 a.m. I just signed my son up for the ACT and he has to be there before 8 a.m. and it is a good 45 minutes away. So we'll have to leave here at 7 a.m. Okay, whine over. I guess we'll both drink lots of coffee. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Mom Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 We are not morning people. We rarely get up before 8 a.m. I just signed my son up for the ACT and he has to be there before 8 a.m. and it is a good 45 minutes away. So we'll have to leave here at 7 a.m. Okay, whine over. I guess we'll both drink lots of coffee. :001_smile: Sigh, they never plan these tests for the homeschool family hours. We even found Driver's Ed started at 8:00 am in the summer:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 It's not just home school family convenience, early morning ACT times don't really fit a teen's natural rhythms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 It's not just home school family convenience, early morning ACT times don't really fit a teen's natural rhythms. :iagree: The PSATs started at 7:30. This school starts at that time every day. I like to remind my kids of this when they give me a hard time about being up at a reasonable hour--like 9 or so. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Wonder how we can get them to offer it after lunch. I am certain it would benefit a lot of teens. The normal teen really does not function as well in the a.m. Also, they need to allow the kids a drink or snack of some sort during the break. My dd has great difficulty going 4 hours with nothing to eat or drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyg Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I'm not a morning person either. I sympathize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funschooler5 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Ugh, I hate that. It's hard to get my kids to function normally before 10:30. We like to ease into our day. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecj98 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 So my husband who proctors the ACT can get home before I become a crazy woman from having him gone yet another day. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Because they would have to plan a lunch break instead of just a 15 minute break. As it is, they don't get out until 12:15 if you don't do the writing, 1 pm if you do. If they started later, the kids wouldn't get out until 2 or 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Because they would have to plan a lunch break instead of just a 15 minute break. As it is, they don't get out until 12:15 if you don't do the writing, 1 pm if you do. If they started later, the kids wouldn't get out until 2 or 3. Why not start at 12:30? The kids can easily eat lunch before they take the test. Most of these kids do not eat a decent breakfast. They would be far better served by waiting until after a meal that they do eat. Test would run from 12:30-4:30/5:30 if with writing. They could even start at 11 and get out at 4/5. No need for a lunch break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I always assumed it is because the schools that are providing the facilities have things going on later in the day on Saturdays, like sporting events. I've been doing a lot of research and reading about our daily rhythms, and though teens tend to be a bit less alert in the morning than most people, everything I've read says that mid-afternoon would be about the worst time for anyone - even teens - to take a test. Starting so early isn't ideal, but morning is in general. As a pp said, they would need a lunch break (which would involve a lunch room and added clean-up) if they started later in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Why not start at 12:30? The kids can easily eat lunch before they take the test. And that would make the test scores go down really low. Early afternoon, especially after a meal, is the absolute worst time for most people to be focused and alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 So they start it at 9:30 am, take a protein break at halftime, and be outta there by 1:30 pm. Seems like a nice compromise to me. If I ruled the world (or maybe just the College Board), that's how I'd do it. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I have no idea. If I was in charge, no normal business would start before noon or close before midnight. Unfortunately, I am not in charge and have therefore been out of sync my entire life. I didn't even bother taking any pre-college tests. I just started going to night school. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 The tests were that early decades ago when I was taking them. I wondered then how many extra points I would have gotten if they had started at 10:00 instead of 8:00. Definitely an advantage for morning people. (And I went to a school in which the first class was 8:00, so it wasn't that I wasn't used to it; I just wasn't able to function well that early!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 And that would make the test scores go down really low.Early afternoon, especially after a meal, is the absolute worst time for most people to be focused and alert. Guess my kids are just weird. Though, they would actually do best from 6-10 or later. I just figured that would be asking too much.:D Early morning (yes, 8 is EARLY) is simply the absolute worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 It's all about gatekeeping. Submitting scores to a college shows not only academic ability, but the motivation and ability to get to the test site by 8:00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 So my husband who proctors the ACT can get home before I become a crazy woman from having him gone yet another day. :P :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I've been doing a lot of research and reading about our daily rhythms, and though teens tend to be a bit less alert in the morning than most people, everything I've read says that mid-afternoon would be about the worst time for anyone - even teens - to take a test. Starting so early isn't ideal, but morning is in general. As a pp said, they would need a lunch break (which would involve a lunch room and added clean-up) if they started later in the morning. So does this mean I'm a non-morning person or just never grew up? :lol::lol: So they start it at 9:30 am, take a protein break at halftime, and be outta there by 1:30 pm. Seems like a nice compromise to me. If I ruled the world (or maybe just the College Board), that's how I'd do it. ;) AuntieM for Ruler of the World, let's start a campaign, but not until after lunch, I'm not awake yet. (non-morning mom taking notes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I have no idea. If I was in charge, no normal business would start before noon or close before midnight. Unfortunately, I am not in charge and have therefore been out of sync my entire life. I didn't even bother taking any pre-college tests. I just started going to night school. :D No, no. It drives me nuts already that most places don't open until 9am. Seriously, why can't everyone open around 6am. That would be great! I would not have done well on the ACT if it had started later than 8am. I've always been an early riser even as a kid. Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) So does this mean I'm a non-morning person or just never grew up? :lol::lol: The book I'm reading right now claims that 10% of the population fall on either end of the "normal" side: they either rise very early and need to go to bed at 7:00 p.m. or so, or they have trouble getting out of bed in the morning and area wake into the night. So you could just say that you're exceptional. :D The consensus from what I've read seems to be that the two most alert times of day are later morning (10:00 am or so) and early evening (5:00-6:00 pm or so.) Some people are more alert during one of those two periods, though. But 1:00 pm or so would be the worst time for almost all students. There was a good reason for the tradition of an afternoon nap! Edited February 15, 2011 by angela in ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 From my experience, the adrenalin keeps the teens quite alert in the morning. I don't think it affects scores much at all due to the time of day. While not necessarily applying to homeschoolers, the majority of students overall are up and at 'em at that time of the morning anyway, so they're used to it. Our local high school starts at 7:25am, so it's essentially equivalent time-wise. I prefer it to be in the morning so we can go out to lunch and have the rest of the day to either do something or relax. If it were given in the afternoon or evening I think way too many teens would be well overstressed for the day due to nerves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 It's all about gatekeeping. Submitting scores to a college shows not only academic ability, but the motivation and ability to get to the test site by 8:00. Actually, I think it shows that this is the way it has always been done and that the people giving the test prefer it this way. The kids are getting to the test; they simply cannot perform as well as they could it if were later because their brains are still asleep. Honestly, I do not think my dd will ever take a class that starts before 10. If she does, I seriously doubt that she will do very well. On the ACT, she manages to do alright on the first two tests. AFter that, she is just too exhausted to continue. It would be the same as having a morning person take the test at midnight. Yes, the adrenaline has her going for a while. Then, she crashes. ADd to it that there is no food or drink allowed AT ALL (not even during the 15 minute break) and she is pretty much guaranteed to not do her best. She needs to eat every 3 hours minimum; I used to check her out of school to feed her a snack in the afternoons. She keeps a bottle of water with her to drink during the day. This time taking the test, she had water and crackers in a large purse to consume in the bathroom during the short break. She said it helped her tremendously. Will this be a predictor of her ability to succeed in college? Possibly. If required classes are only offered in the early a.m. it certainly will. I have found that you can usually find every class offered at varying times during the day though. If the classes are longer than 2 hours and do not allow snacks/drinks, it certainly will. I do not believe that is the case either. Eh, she'll start at the community college and transfer into a 4 year. Saves money anyway. Btw, this girl is brilliant. She just happens to be a night owl. (However, she is now on medication to control hormones, bcp, that is letting her wake up earlier. She can now function at 9 a.m.!!! Before, it was around noon before she was really up/could handle 10 in a pinch.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 From my experience, the adrenalin keeps the teens quite alert in the morning. I don't think it affects scores much at all due to the time of day. While not necessarily applying to homeschoolers, the majority of students overall are up and at 'em at that time of the morning anyway, so they're used to it. Our local high school starts at 7:25am, so it's essentially equivalent time-wise. I prefer it to be in the morning so we can go out to lunch and have the rest of the day to either do something or relax. If it were given in the afternoon or evening I think way too many teens would be well overstressed for the day due to nerves. And, for some, the time school starts is one of the major reasons our kids are home. You are correct, it doesn't have a large effect on the majority of the kids' scores. That is most likely why there hasn't been a large scale revolt.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 And, for some, the time school starts is one of the major reasons our kids are home. You are correct, it doesn't have a large effect on the majority of the kids' scores. That is most likely why there hasn't been a large scale revolt.:D I think you're correct. There's never anything that is perfect for everyone timing-wise, so scheduling often goes with the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I wish they offered an afternoon test too. My youngest is not a morning person by any stretch of the imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) I think you're correct. There's never anything that is perfect for everyone timing-wise, so scheduling often goes with the majority. And for this reason I believe the university model is beneficial, at least when there are more than one section of a particular class offered. Early risers can choose early classes, the rest of us can start at 10am after the coffee kicks in! Not to mention night school....(kidshappen, that totally cracked me up!). Elegantlion, thanks for your vote of confidence. But you *really* don't want me in that position. It truly only works well in my dream life! BTW, hope you enjoyed yesterday's reasonable temperature and renewing sunshine. It was like a tonic for my winter-weary soul! Edited February 15, 2011 by AuntieM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 No, no. It drives me nuts already that most places don't open until 9am. Seriously, why can't everyone open around 6am. That would be great! I would not have done well on the ACT if it had started later than 8am. I've always been an early riser even as a kid. Kelly :iagree: My ds is just like me. He will turn 14 in a couple of weeks and still gets up at 5:00 so he can be on the computer and check his forums (:D) before I come down at 6:00! Dd on the other hand gets up when ds and I are done with math about 7:00 and is none to happy about it. I like reminding her the school bus picks up here at 6:45 just in case she would prefer a different option.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Wonder how we can get them to offer it after lunch. I am certain it would benefit a lot of teens. The normal teen really does not function as well in the a.m. Also, they need to allow the kids a drink or snack of some sort during the break. My dd has great difficulty going 4 hours with nothing to eat or drink. THAT'S my problem. I've NEVER outgrown my TEENAGE years! All this time I thought I was getting old. I've just STOPPED aging!!!!!!!!!! :cheers2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 So they start it at 9:30 am, take a protein break at halftime, and be outta there by 1:30 pm. Seems like a nice compromise to me. If I ruled the world (or maybe just the College Board), that's how I'd do it. ;) I agree: 9:30 or 10:00 would allow *most* students to be starting at their optimal time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 And, for some, the time school starts is one of the major reasons our kids are home. You are correct, it doesn't have a large effect on the majority of the kids' scores. That is most likely why there hasn't been a large scale revolt.:D I don't know that anyone has actually shown that it doesn't affect kids' scores. I bet it does. Adrenaline is not a good substitute for clarity of mind. I was not alert at 8:00, though I had been to school at 8:00 every day of my life. I think there hasn't been a large scale revolt because it's not a direct consumer thing. Colleges require the SAT; consumers are forced to do what the colleges require. So a revolt would be more complicated than boycotting X product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 So they start it at 9:30 am, take a protein break at halftime, and be outta there by 1:30 pm. Seems like a nice compromise to me. If I ruled the world (or maybe just the College Board), that's how I'd do it. ;) Who would provide the protein? If kids brought their own snack, chances are it'll be high carb, low protein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolfromIL Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Who would provide the protein? If kids brought their own snack, chances are it'll be high carb, low protein. I would think home school students would do better if the ACT were allowed to be taken at home with the parent as the proctor. We could start when our children are FULLY awake and stop for protein at lunch with a full meal. We should never have to follow any educational norms of public schooled children, not even 1 day for the ACT!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Who would provide the protein? If kids brought their own snack, chances are it'll be high carb, low protein. Well, I don't have a great answer, it's a good point! I know I'd send my kid with what he needs, but unless protein is provided for all I think you are correct, many would show up with some fine French cuisine. Or maybe a can of Red Bull - horrors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Will this be a predictor of her ability to succeed in college? Possibly. If required classes are only offered in the early a.m. it certainly will. I have found that you can usually find every class offered at varying times during the day though. Sorry to say, but that just is not the case everywhere. Particularly not with the increased enrollment and the budget cuts at all schools which make classroom space so tight that you have very little control over which section to choose. And yes, there are classes that are only offered at 8am. I teach one of them. I have people fail because they don't want to show up that early. And before you blame me or the school - all classrooms are booked solid throughout the day. Can't increase tuition by the amount necessary for a new building. So somebody has to be the one to get out of bed in the morning. (And with labs finishing at 8 or 9pm, there is no way to just "shift" the classes towards later times) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 8:00 AM is actually 20 minutes later than my husband's school starts through the week. For those kids, they get to feel like their sleeping in. Personally, I've never been a morning person, but I graduated 3rd in my class in high school and scored very well on my entrance exams. I don't think it will really change the results for a motivated, good student. They are going to have college classes that can start at 8 and some jobs require being there before that, so I don't think it should be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I would think home school students would do better if the ACT were allowed to be taken at home with the parent as the proctor. We could start when our children are FULLY awake and stop for protein at lunch with a full meal. We should never have to follow any educational norms of public schooled children, not even 1 day for the ACT!' I disagree with this. ACT and SAT scores are often used for competitive purposes, so they should all be administered in the same way, by non-biased proctors, not a parent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I would think home school students would do better if the ACT were allowed to be taken at home with the parent as the proctor. We could start when our children are FULLY awake and stop for protein at lunch with a full meal. We should never have to follow any educational norms of public schooled children, not even 1 day for the ACT!' Are you bored again? :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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