BJU Physical Science 9 for Jr High

[HollyDay]

I'm still debating a good substitute for Apologia General and Apologia Physical. How about BJU Physical 9th done over 2 years in 7th and 8th?

[PeterPan]

So was the pace of the other BJU courses (Life Science 7, Earth Science 8) that main issue? You had mentioned in another post that you found the BJU middle school stuff ambitious. Certainly doing the 9th grade book in 7th, even half, lol, would be ambitious. And to me, this is just me, I think the value of doing the books as they were intended is worth enough to make it worth doing them right. (read the text, learn how to study and take notes, take the tests) If you want a two year study, you could do the ACS middle school chemistry (free) this coming year and do conceptual physics for 9th. Then you'd have a full year of material to fill each year.

 

Do you have reason to expect your experience with the BJU Physical Science would be better than what it was with the Life Science? Just asking. Maybe you didn't like all the worldview and extra stuff?? Personally, I'm finding the Life Science FABULOUS. Maybe with some tweaks you could get it to work for you? Then you'd at least be on grade level and not stretching so much. Outlining the material makes a huge difference. Using only the lab dvd and not the lectures (so you don't have that horrendous southern accent or lose so much time) makes a huge difference. We're having a fabulous time with it. Dd struggles just enough with disconnected vocab and whatnot (brain is a sieve for it) that I'm really glad to have the chance to interact with the terms in a meaningful way before a high school biology class. That probably would have bowled her over to walk straight into.

 

Guess that really doesn't address your question. I wouldn't do it, partly because it wouldn't have enough content for a year and partly because spreading it out doesn't change the way they actually approach the material. It's still expected to be outlined or studied, still has those worksheets, blah blah. And then it's a step up, meant for older kids. We'll either do it fully in 8th or do the split year each of physics and chemistry.

Edited February 14, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[HollyDay]

Thanks Elizabeth! Food for thought.

 

I'm just going round and round with jr high science. My oldest did Apologia but neither of us were thrilled with it. Youngest really does not like Apologia General. Both dc find the "chattiness" distracting and frustrating.

 

I am not thrilled with LifePac science.

 

I cannot get a look at Abeka

 

BJU I just find overwhelming. It is a solid course, but it is, well, overwhelming

 

God's Design for Physical World and Chemistry looks wonderful and really interests dd, but it is geared for grades 3-8. Not sure it would be enough "meaty" material. (same for Christian Kids Explore Physics and Chemistry).

 

Paradigm Integrated Physics and Chemistry just looks so dry (it is black and white).

 

What have I missed?

[PeterPan]

Well that's what I was saying. If you can't lick the gr 7, the gr 9 will be an even harder slog. My only two cents, and this is just me, is that the Life Science *is* doable *if* you outline it. I read the text and outline it myself. Then I have her type up the basic structure of the text, which you can see as bold headings, etc. They actually label some in the book. Once you know what you're looking for, it's obvious. Took a friend pointing it out for me to see it. Like you, I had been totally blown away by the content. Anyways, she types up the structure and then reads. After she reads, we discuss the material, going through each paragraph. I ask if there was anything important or a list. I know what I'm trying to get her to notice, because it's in my outline. When she has her notes typed, she's done. We do that three days, then do the labs with the dvd, then study and take the test. I'll send you some of our outlines if you want to see them. They might help you decide if that would be do-able for you. And no, I'm not offering this to anyone else, so don't ask. I'm an ogre. :)

[MorningGlory]

Hello Holly!

 

I've just barely followed some of your posts regarding your science dilemma. Please forgive me if I repeat something another poster has written. But I cannot resist giving a plug for the BJU program...done in its prescribed way. I know you have used it and weren't that pleased...but I don't think you are going to find a better choice.

 

BJU science can be overwhelming. I have learned to pick and choose from all that is offered. Do you know how homeschool moms call TOG a "buffet"? The BJU mid-high courses could be considered in a similar way (I cannot yet speak for the HS levels). There is no way to do every experiment, every activity, every idea in the texts. We do all the reading, study questions, applications in the back of the text (some of which we do orally), and around 2 experiments per chapter. I sat down last summer and planned out exactly what we were going to do for 180 days. I made the course fit our year. It is so worthwhile.

 

The Life Science course was (like Elizabeth said) FABULOUS. The Earth and Space Science course is JUST AS GOOD (if not even better). And I am looking forward to finally being able to teach chem/physics next year with the Physical Science course.

 

If you are doing Life Science this year, and you still have 7th and 8th grade to go, why don't you follow the BJU schedule and do E&S in 7th and Physical in 8th? This is what we have done. I do not regret one moment, and I do not look over the fence and see greener grass. NONE of my homeschool mom friends are as pleased with their junior high sciences as I am. This is the honest truth.

 

I also know that the tests that come with the BJU programs are difficult. My son has found them very challenging! He is a natural math/science type of fellow, so I do not adjust the tests for him. I want him to struggle a bit...to find out what he is really about. Honestly, I might make some adjustments with the tests for my younger son (when it is his turn).

 

One thing I learned this past weekend is that the BJU program is definitely preparing my son for his future. He took the ACT through the Duke TIP program on Saturday. The science section was "almost" doable for him because he has been trained through BJU to read diagrams and graphs and charts and make predictions from such. I haven't seen another science program that does this quite as well. Just a thought.

 

:) Jetta

[MorningGlory]

One more thing...and Elizabeth might find this interesting, too.

 

In my son's E&S lesson today, BJU had the students outline part of the chapter as an application exercise in the back of the text. I was SO PLEASED! I'm telling you...they think of it all...BJU science covers all the bases and REALLY teaches study/learning skills along the way.

 

Gotta go!

Jetta

[PeterPan]

Jetta, it's really interesting that you comment about how happy you are with your science compared to friends who are doing other routes. There's sort of a peace that comes with finding something good, sticking to it, and not working so hard (and spending so much time) trying to reinvent the wheel. So how are you liking the BJU American Republic? Are you fleshing that out with something? Do you like the student pages? Just curious.

[amtmcm]

 

I cannot get a look at Abeka

 

 

 

I'm in the "BJU Life Science is fabulous" camp. But I do have a copy of A Beka 7 Science Order & Reality (General Science) and I'd be happy to try to help with any info you'd like about it.

 

Here's the TOC:

 

Chapt 1 Invitation to Science (Scientific Method)

Chapt 2 Plants

Chapt 3 Your Wonderful Body

Chapt 4 Physical Science (includes Periodic Table & Physics)

Chapt 5 Atmosphere

Chapt 6 Weather: Sun, Wind, Clouds

Chapt 7 Weather: Climate, Storms and Forecasting

Chapt 8 Science of Classification

Chapt 9 Through the Microscope

Chapt 10 Science and Creation

Chapt 11 Insects

 

The "Your Wonderful Body" chapter has AMAZING pictures of a baby from conception to fully developed. The text is 493 pages, well written and includes beautiful photos and illustrations.

 

IMO, A Beka Science 7 is a good book, but I prefer BJU for a number of reasons (many mentioned in this thread).

[DianeJM]

A couple of years ago I had looked at both Apologia Physical and BJU Space & Earth (8th) side by side, and I found there was quite a bit of overlap. As I remember, anyway.

Has anyone else found that?

 

The thing about BJU being challenging is very true. For me, it would never be appropriate to use their 9th grade science any earlier than 9th. But I'm not mathy/sciency in the least, maybe you are and maybe your kids are. That would make the difference.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Thanks Elizabeth! Food for thought.

 

I'm just going round and round with jr high science. My oldest did Apologia but neither of us were thrilled with it. Youngest really does not like Apologia General. Both dc find the "chattiness" distracting and frustrating.

 

I am not thrilled with LifePac science.

 

I cannot get a look at Abeka

 

BJU I just find overwhelming. It is a solid course, but it is, well, overwhelming

 

God's Design for Physical World and Chemistry looks wonderful and really interests dd, but it is geared for grades 3-8. Not sure it would be enough "meaty" material. (same for Christian Kids Explore Physics and Chemistry).

 

Paradigm Integrated Physics and Chemistry just looks so dry (it is black and white).

 

What have I missed?

 

 

Holly,

 

We're using BJU Life Science in 7th. I agree it is fabulous. I've also considered BJU physical in 8th. It really appeals to me to have someone else do the teaching, but I'm not convinced it is the right class for us. Mrs. Vick gets to the point, but Mr. Harmon is long-winded. Lots of people love him though. BJU is still on my short list of possibilities, but I can recommend something else to compare it to:

 

You can add CPO to your list. CPO physical science gets good reviews on this board. They have a middle school version, and they have one that is for more like 9th grade that could be used in 8th grade. It is called Foundations of Physical Science.

 

It is worth looking into this program.... Just do a search on this board. Also, www.cpo.com .There IS a downside. The major disadvantage is that CPO was written for a classroom. It is not home school "friendly". Particularly, their experiment equipment is beyond expensive.... about $1500.

 

BUT.... several on this board have used their books with success. One way is by using the Reader's Digest How Science Works and How Things Work books. Just find a substitute experiment for the expensive one in the book. This way you teach the same concepts.

 

There are helpful and colorful Powerpoint slides, graphic organizers, animations, etc on their web site. The Foundations book has an interactive E-Book that my dd really likes. CPO also has quite a bit of math in it. The middle school version is lighter, and Foundations can be used along with Alg. I. There is a short video about the Foundations book that will show you how the curriculum is used in a school setting. This will just give you perspective about what it looks like and how you could use it at home.

 

There is so much to see on their site that you should reserve half and hour or so.... so that you'll have enough time to explore. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

If you look up your state on their site, you can find the CPO rep for your state. I did that. The rep could answer specific questions.

 

CPO is secular. It has a completely different feel compared to BJU, but the Foundations book has a similar TOC.

 

I really know how difficult it is to pick science for this age. I've home schooled for several years now without much trouble, but now that we're looking high school in the face, it seems much harder.

 

 

ETA: Pam in MA, Kangato3, and Corraleno are good ones look up to read about CPO. The CPO middle school book is for 8th grade. You can read about age/grade recommendations in the CPO FAQ section.

 

Momto2Ns also likes Prentice Hall's Concepts in Action which is another curriculum about equivalent to BJU physical. Once again, secular, though.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Sweet Home Alabama

[mom31257]

My dd is using BJU Life this year online and she is 8th grade. It has been a good course for her, and Mrs. Vick does a great job. I think you should consider at least doing one of BJU's middle school courses before jumping into a high school course. I chose Life because I felt that would be a great foundation for Biology later. She had not had much life science in the last 2 years either.

 

I will not be using BJU online or dvd next year. BJU's lectures go to 45 minutes per day plus all the textbook work. I am going to use Dive Integrated Physics and Chemistry with BJU's textbook. My dd is not math/science oriented, but I want her to do well enough to get into college and handle her college science credits. If Dive works well for us, I will probably use it for all four science credits.

[mom2maddie]

I am considering BJU science for my rising 8th grader. She is finishing Apologia General so do you think Earth and Space would be too similar? She has not done any life science or chemistry or physics she has only done Apologia Zoo 1, Botany, Astronomy and the General Science.

 

Thanks!

Susan

[lovemykids]

I don’t have any experience with these programs yet at this stage. I am only chiming in to say that we are excited to try BJU Science next year and we plan to do it without the DVDs. Dd is especially excited after thoroughly reading the samples (although we are both not so sure about all of the... "extra stuff":001_huh:). At the moment we also plan to use BJU Physical Science in 8th grade, potentially with the Dive CD, but plans can and do change quite often.

 

I also plan to use Abeka Science 6 for my fifth grade dd next year. She is excited about the visuals...and she will be able to be slightly more independent with it than other programs we have here at home.

[mom2maddie]

Our tentative plans were to use DIVE too with the BJU texts, but not until 9th grade. The DIVE looks very rigorous. You think an 8th grader can handle it? Do you plan on giving HS credit for that class in 8th?

Edited June 19, 2011 by mom2maddie
spelling

[LisaKinVA]

I'm using the Abeka Physical Science next year for my 6th grader. He has already completed an "advanced" year each both middle school Earth Science and Life Science through our state's Virtual Academy, so another middle school course just wasn't what I was looking for.

 

BJU's high school texts have more "weighty" questions, and I felt they would be too much for my 11yo. this year.

 

Abeka's Table of Contents includes:

 

1: Introduction to Science

2: The Atmosphere

3: Earth's Weather

4: A Survey of the Seas

5: Foundations of Chemistry

6: Molecules and Chemistry

7: Chemistry in Action

8: Foundations of Geology

9: Rocks and Minerals

10: Weathering and Erosion

11: Interpreting the Fossil Record

12: Mechanics: Physics of Motion

13: Waves and Sound

14: Light and Color

15: Electrostatics and Magnetism

16: Electricity

17: Electronics

 

I also purchased the DVD for the lab demonstrations, and have scheduled my son to complete a science project during the year.

 

My son's daily lesson plans consist of outlining the reading for the day, copying vocabulary words onto a study sheet, answering basic comprehension questions... or doing the lab demo/very basic write-up... or studying... or quiz...or test.

 

I felt the questions were perfect for my son at this level. The text easy to read, the illustrations very nice, all in all very doable for an accelerated middle school student without being too much.

 

I view the middle school years as preparation for high school -- developing the study and organizational skills they will need for high school and beyond. Having a solid foundation in these areas (imo) is more important than "deep thinking" or launching too quickly and deeply into higher-order logic that should be required of high school students.

 

Abeka has some "Think" questions, usually no more than one or two in a section, which will allow for a more thoughtful discussion, but this isn't the focus. This is the same reason I'm using Abeka for our main Lit study right now too. He's had two years of slogging through (and becoming increasingly frustrated with) the "thoughty" stuff. He can handle a bit (and will get plenty with Progeny Press), but not every. single. assignment. in history, literature and science.

 

If you have specific questions about Abeka's 9th grade course, I'll be happy to answer whatever I can (as long as you promise not to turn me over to the Abeka police for daring to use a high school text with a middle schooler...:lol:)

[LisaKinVA]

I am considering BJU science for my rising 8th grader. She is finishing Apologia General so do you think Earth and Space would be too similar? She has not done any life science or chemistry or physics she has only done Apologia Zoo 1, Botany, Astronomy and the General Science.

 

Thanks!

Susan

 

I loooked at the BJU Earth & Space... It's really good, but would say there is a very large emphasis on space (probably because Physical Science covers more earth). I am considering it as a summer-school study and focusing on the space-part.

[HSMom2One]

I've been fascinated with learning about the DIVE science curriculum, and am leaning heavily towards that for 8th grade and beyond.

Here is a link to their suggested course outline, and it looks like either BJU or Apologia textbooks can be used with their Earth Science course for 8th grade. I really like all the information that is on the entire website and am already learning a lot about science options up ahead.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[angela in ohio]

We've done BJU Life, Earth, and Bio (w/ DIVE.) We skipped Physical Science, because I knwo they will do Physics and beyond.

 

I'll tell you a secret. The *content* of junior high science matters little. What does matter is learning the skills needed for high school science. BJU Biology began with zero expectation of a previous biology course. (Of course, it helps to have previous exposure, but you won't be able to pre-cover everything they need for high school. :001_smile:) It does require a student who knows how to read, study, write, and follow lab directions. All this to say that you don't need to do ALL of the BJU 7th, 8th, and/or 9th grade material. You could do part of Life Science and part of Earth & Space Science only and still have done more than using some other programs. You could also do Physical Science over two years and be fine. I personally wouldn't skip Earth & Space, because that's not material you really get again, and so many students really like especially the space part. But they an also take Astronomy in college.

 

A Beka has a nice science course. I have a few friends who use it, and I am impressed with their elementary and junior high courses.

 

I also recommend the DIVE as opposed to the BJU DVDs, but I know others felt they really helped. We jsut couldn't do that much time, since they were already reading the material. They could zip through a discussion with each other and me, plus the labs, and move on to the rest of their workload.

[mom2maddie]

Angela,

 

That was helpful, thanks. I will be using the DIVE with BJU beginning in 9th grade. Looks like we may do earth and space next year since she won't repeat that. There is no DIVE for that course so I guess we'll just have to go it alone...are there lab dvd's? I can't afford the full course.

 

Susan

[lovemykids]

Our tenative plans were to use DIVE too with the BJU texts, but not until 9th grade. The DIVE looks very rigorous. You think an 8th grader can handle it? Do you plan on giving HS credit for that class in 8th?

 

Hmm, I am not sure what we will do actually. First I need to see how my dd handles the workload of BJU 7. I guess we’ll see how things go next year and then reassess. I think my dd would love the Dive CD but she needs to get her balancing act together as far as getting everything accomplished (and so do I, lately).

 

I have wanted to use DIVE for some time now, I was just unsure of which text we would use with them. Recently, I considered purchasing BJU DVDs but I don’t think we would use those enough to justify the cost.

 

Angela, I appreciate your input.

 

We may just buy the BJU text for eighth grade and have it in the house for the kids to read. They love science textbooks and read them for fun. I believe dd wants to do Physical Science in eighth grade, whether it is BJU or another publisher.

[angela in ohio]

Angela,

 

That was helpful, thanks. I will be using the DIVE with BJU beginning in 9th grade. Looks like we may do earth and space next year since she won't repeat that. There is no DIVE for that course so I guess we'll just have to go it alone...are there lab dvd's? I can't afford the full course.

 

Susan

 

If there was one you could do without a CD or such, it is probably the Earth & Space science. Our "lab" was to buy a nice telescope and learn how to really use it. We did a few labs and writing projects, because I wanted to work on those skills, but I did them on my own.

[3andme]

Angela,

 

That was helpful, thanks. I will be using the DIVE with BJU beginning in 9th grade. Looks like we may do earth and space next year since she won't repeat that. There is no DIVE for that course so I guess we'll just have to go it alone...are there lab dvd's? I can't afford the full course.

 

Susan

 

In the online catalog for DIVE, it indicates that they will have an Earth Science DVD available in August of this year.

[michelle l]

:bigear:

 

Rising 7th grader came home for 5th grade, and has done Apologia Zoology 1 and 2, and is now doing Apologia Astronomy...wondering where to go for 7th, so i'm listening in on the science conversations with great interest.

 

Keep chatting.:)

[mom2maddie]

In the online catalog for DIVE, it indicates that they will have an Earth Science DVD available in August of this year.

 

Thanks! I will have to look into that. I had no idea that was in the works. Will it be a HS course?

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

BJU Science for all grades is exceptional and yes each one is a very full curriculum,. Over the years I have come up with several ways to help my children handle their BJU science without feeling overwhelmed.

1) Make vocabulary cards: I usually do this in advance for each chapter and as he learns vocabulary in his reading he adds the cards to a ring. Each day we go over a few with me asking questions from the cards. You could have the child make these as re-enforcement but I find they have enough to do with the course already.

2)Outline the readings: we don't make a formal outline but one could. I do however make him write the headings and then pick several main points from each section. I then go over the section review questions orally and he is only allowed his outline notes to refer back to. This has taught him to make sure his notes are good. What he cannot answer is areas he needs to reread and retake notes on.

3)We do not do every experiment: I pick the ones with the most impact and the ones that re-enforce the lesson the best. We also save these for the end of the chapter.

4) Do activities as review: The activity pages in the back of Life Science and Earth/Space science are perfect to review main topics before the test. We wait to the end of a chapter to do these for that purpose.

5)Some chapters are open book: to get the entire curriculum completed in a year and not loose your head decide on several chapters being open book chapters. Usually these are the first few dealing with science and Biblical principals and then about 3 chapters I weigh to be less then the others. My children read these and we discuss orally, maybe do an experiment if it looks worthy but they take an open book test.This gives them a nice break and helps move the course along.

 

To answer the OP, I would not consider doing the 9th grade Physical Science with a 7th grader even over two years. This is the first of their High School science books and more is expected. There is less handholding and more is assumed they know during the experiments. I would either take the Life science slow or the Space/Earth science slow and learn the BJU way before tackling the Physical Science book or any of the other High School sciences from BJU. Another route is use the DVD/online courses for the BJU science, they give you over a year to complete and it might help hearing the chapters being discussed by a teacher who might explain concepts differently from the text.

[Pamela in VA]

Note: Biology major/Forensic Science masters/research lab and forensic lab DNA Analyst/former HS science teacher speaking here...

 

I must say, this is one of several very frustrating things about Apologia for me. While I do think the Apologia courses are solid, their sequence of disciplines is not as traditional as most science courses. Also, the narrative presentation is not nearly as easy to outline as other texts.

 

Typically, Earth Science incorporates geology, meteorology, oceanography, and astronomy. BJU and other traditional texts do this. However, Apologia divides these between its General Science and Physical Science books. It also incorporates Life Science course material into GS, but you don't get nearly as much. Unfortunately, I did not investigate this closely before we started with GS last year and now I am sorry (I taught the GS labs in a small home-based co-op of friends). I would have started with BJU Life Science and continued on their track.

 

Here in VA, Earth Science is the 9th grade course and we are scheduled to do Apologia Physical next year with our co-op, which I committed to teach. Well, half of what is considered ES was in the Apologia GS book and the other half is in their PS book. Argggghhh!

 

My dilemma is that dd really wants to do the BJU ES book and I LOVE it, especially all the charts and diagrams to learn to interpret. Apologia does very little of that application. Dd wants to pursue geology and paleontology, so I feel like she needs the depth of info that BJU will give her. She's also looked at the BJU PS book and wants to do part of it also. She has time, since she'll only be 8th next year, but ds will be 9th.

 

The other part of the dilemma is that I'd like dd to take bio in 9th, but I don't see how she can do both BJU ES and PS in a year. What I might do is ES this year and bio next at the regular pace and have her work on PS at a half-pace over two years. Ds, being in 9th this year, is just going to do BJU ES.

 

OK, the bottom line to my ramble and vent here is that the sequencing of Apologia is not only wacky to me, there are disciplines in the PS book that don't belong there (e.g., astronomy, meteorology).

Edited June 23, 2011 by PameLA in VA

[HollyDay]

Note: Biology major/Forensic Science masters/research lab and forensic lab DNA Analyst/former HS science teacher speaking here...

 

I must say, this is one of several very frustrating things about Apologia for me. While I do think the Apologia courses are solid, their sequence of disciplines is not as traditional as most science courses. Also, the narrative presentation is not nearly as easy to outline as other texts.

 

Typically, Earth Science incorporates geology, meteorology, oceanography, and astronomy. BJU and other traditional texts do this. However, Apologia divides these between its General Science and Physical Science books. It also incorporates Life Science course material into GS, but you don't get nearly as much. Unfortunately, I did not investigate this closely before we started with GS last year and now I am sorry (I taught the GS labs in a small home-based co-op of friends). I would have started with BJU Life Science and continued on their track.

 

Here in VA, Earth Science is the 9th grade course and we are scheduled to do Apologia Physical next year with our co-op, which I committed to teach. Well, half of what is considered ES was in the Apologia GS book and the other half is in their PS book. Argggghhh!

 

My dilemma is that dd really wants to do the BJU ES book and I LOVE it, especially all the charts and diagrams to learn to interpret. Apologia does very little of that application. Dd wants to pursue geology and paleontology, so I feel like she needs the depth of info that BJU will give her. She's also looked at the BJU PS book and wants to do part of it also. She has time, since she'll only be 8th next year, but ds will be 9th.

 

The other part of the dilemma is that I'd like dd to take bio in 9th, but I don't see how she can do both BJU ES and PS in a year. What I might do is ES this year and bio next at the regular pace and have her work on PS at a half-pace over two years. Ds, being in 9th this year, is just going to do BJU ES.

 

OK, the bottom line to my ramble and vent here is that the sequencing of Apologia is not only wacky to me, there are disciplines in the PS book that don't belong there (e.g., astronomy, meteorology).

 

:iagree: thank you for explaining what I've been trying to put my finger on

[mom2maddie]

Thanks! This confirms what I've been thinking...time to leave Apologia and head for BJU. We have not enjoyed the General Science text this year.