TracyR Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 My 2nd daughter is having a horrible time with math this year. She's attending a brick and mortar school but is doing 4th grade math for a 2nd time and she still does not understand it. I'm planning on bringing her home ( though she doesn't really want to but just can't afford the private school anymore) and I need something to help her. The school is using Saxon and she is just having a rough time with 5/4. Any suggestions? I know some of the problem is she has a receptive/expressive language delay, which had been brought on as an infant due to seizures she's had. Her teacher said some days she'll maybe get 2 problems wrong or none and it seems like she's got it, and then the next day she'll get 6 or more like she didn't understand it. This was the same issue I had with her at home when we were homeschooling. Her reading is right up there. K started reading when she was 4.5 yrs old. She continues to do fine with reading and comprehension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 She has been evaluated by a neuropsych or SLP for the language delays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julesnpebbles@suddenlink. Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 My 4th grader could barely do kindergarten math. She has dyscalculia and other issues. I bought Rightstart Math and gave it to her therapist. Her therapist LOVES it! My daughter does NOT love math. EVER. at all. But she is learning with Right start. I haven't used it so I don't know - I was going to but my therapist suggested that I hand math over for a little while and she's using it very very slowly but she's having great success with it. I got level B for her and it seems to be a good fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Yes O' Elizabeth, by her neurologist and Early Intervention/Intermediate Unit. She has been in speech therapy since she was 3yrs old ( she is 11 now and mostly the R's give her trouble now). Her teacher is at a loss as to what to do. I've suggested her white board because K likes to use a white board. But then it cuts into their class time. Maybe having her sit with her teacher ( K seems to do better if someone is sitting next to her. not sure if its a comfort thing or what). I'll have to look into Right Start. Just not sure what to do. I've read suggestions like using visual aids , having them memorize math facts. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Oh I didn't ask cuz I doubted you. I was just hoping maybe the person who had diagnosed it had included some instructional information in the write-up, a letter you could look back to or something. If you try RightStart, she could use her abacus while doing the math at school. That would be a reasonable accommodation. There's even an abacus app from them now, hehe. I wondered if some of the stuff from Nanci Bell would help her. They have a program for visualizing math and numbers. My dd did some of what you're talking about, with knowing it today and blank looks tomorrow, but it's not the same cause. Nuts, my dd can look at me and be insistent that 7+5 is 11 some days. It's just one of those things you groan over. Have you looked at R&S? Does she have any working memory or focus issues on top of the rest? Just asking if that might be why she likes the person near her, to help her stay focused. Expressive language is an interesting thing. Yllek on the boards here has been doing some detailed posts on the therapy her SLP has been doing with her ds. It might give you some ideas you could transfer over to the math. Basic idea is that they have to think, then motor plan and get the whole thing out, and it's so many steps that all have to work right, all confounded by any working memory deficits. I've been thinking myself about how you apply all these steps (the crunching, the words, the motor planning to get it written or said, etc.) to build them enough and get the whole thing to flow and stick better. I don't know if it's even on track, but I was trying to build on what Yllek had described and I made flashcards from the Memorize in Minutes times tables book. Take the pairs and play memory with limited amounts of them, saying the facts as you turn them over. It's almost like you have to wire in all the language for the math. Yes that's what I'm saying. I speak as a fool here. It's just these little theories I toy around with. But research it and see what you think. As you say, you can PRACTICE the facts till they're blue in the face and not have them stick, nor the algorithms. It's like something more has to happen, the wiring has to be built going from the computation part of the brain to the language part of the brain to the motor control (get it out) part of the brain. I find my dd still using her multiplication table, and I allow it. Again, I think we're building pathways for the brain (concept to visual, then writing it). As they access the resource, be it an abacus or a multiplication or a fraction chart, that you are accommodating and allowing them to use (when the rest of the class wouldn't), they're actually going a step beyond and building new pathways in their brain about how they organize the information. They aren't yet ready to MEMORIZE it, but they can ORGANIZE it. Someone has told here about making a filing box for math techniques. That would be another way to organize and give her the information. She could access it, use it, and put it back. Over time she would access it less, but at least she would have it in her mind that she could find out for herself how to do the technique. Edited February 12, 2011 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwilliams Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 There are computer programs available to help compensate for some skill deficeits. Years ago a school I was involved with was researching computer programs to help with their LD students in written expression and math. The math program was called Mathpad. Maybe you could research this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacefully Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacefully Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Someone has told here about making a filing box for math techniques. That would be another way to organize and give her the information. She could access it, use it, and put it back. Over time she would access it less, but at least she would have it in her mind that she could find out for herself how to do the technique. Elizabeth, have you seen any of the Dinah Zike foldable projects for math? We've done a few, and based on what I remember about your dd enjoying arts and crafts and embellishing, this might be a fun way for her to create her own math resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) That's an interesting idea! Do any of them work for pre-algebra or algebra? Answered my own question! She has a middle/high school math book of folds. Interesting! Edited February 12, 2011 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacefully Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Ds is learning his math facts with some of the Dinah Zike stuff (and a few other activities). I am helping him to put together a binder of these math resources, and he really likes reviewing math facts this way. He's not crafty, so he didn't like making them, but I bet your dd might! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Right Start is my favorite for elementary, and I started my oldest when she was in 3rd grade in level B. She just did it at double pace till she reached level E. Now she is doing Lials Basic College, math, which has great explanations, large problems sets (lots of practice) and it does have some review work. It is working very well for her. (Don't let the name scare you she writes remedial text for community colleges so it is elementary math, but with larger numbers.) Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cami in UT Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 My son who has dyscalculia is doing really well with MUS. Our progression was: In kindergarten (the only year he went to school) he used Saxon. He could only do about half what the other students did, the rest being homework. 1st grade: our first year home I tried him on Saxon again thinking if I gave him time it would click. It didn't work. 2nd-middle 4th grade: We switched to Rod & Staff. He did better, he was learning but there were still tears and he hated math. Middle 4th-current (middle 5th) grade: We switched to MUS. He is doing really good. We do everything, 2 worksheets a day (A&D, B&E, C&F) and the test. In May 2010, we have finally got him tested, where he got the dyscalculia diagnoses. His tester said that MUS was a good choice for him because he needs the mastery over-kill that MUS gives. HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Yllek, you're killing my budget here! I found 3 or 4 Dinah Zike books I should have gotten ages ago to use with her!!! LOL I probably will order some pretty soon. The science would be great with our life science, the math with the pre-algebra, and the history with our history for fall. So thanks. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) Is your daughter currently receiving therapy for her receptive/expressive language processing issues? If not, ds's SLP has been telling me that it's a good bet to look at a university-affiliated clinic to screen for a therapeutic program that specifically addresses language processing. A typical speech therapy program that addresses the various language "skills" may not give the kind of results that I'm describing. Yes, my daughter had some form of speech therapy since she was a baby. My daughter had seizures from the time she was 9 months to three years of age. After that she just didn't talk for quite some time. So we had early intervention. During that time when she had the seizures she developed the receptive/expressive learning delays. We worked with early intervention , she started talking at the age of 3 , and then we transfered to the intermediate unit (the next step for preschoolers). When she was three we also started seeing a private speech therapist and she did really, really well with her. We saw her every Wed for 8 more years! Then this year when my girls wanted to give school a try. She qualified for speech therapy but she just gets your basic run of the mill speech therapy now. Just works on letter sounds, etc. My daughter already wears glasses. I don't think she has traking issues. She started reading at the age of 4 and by 4.5 was reading at a 1st grade level. She still reads well. Well enough that in the beginning I didn't even know she was having problems seeing. Her oldest sister has perfect eye sight and had a horrible time with reading , so much so she didn't start reading until the age of 7 and even so didn't read fluently until the age of 9. that was my 'normal' kid. So K amazed us by reading, and reading so well that when she was finally old enough to see the eye doctor we found out she actually had eye issues. Go figure? Her teacher says she reads really well too. So I would imagine you would have to have traking to read. Also I think it may be possibly some short term memory issues. She seems to forget things that are taught in the moment when it comes to math. But when you get it in there she's got it. Its about finding what works. See, I think this whole school thing is just not working well for her or for us really. I was able to work with her one on one and she did well that way. Granted we were just getting by with math. Her problems didn't start until we started adding actually math problems. She did fine learning her numbers, learning the basic kindergarden concepts like first , second, last , and so forth.. She did fine when it came to adding. Once we added in subtraction , multiplication and other concepts she began to have problems. She began confusing addition and subtraction signs, didn't understand algorithms at all. I'll look into Rod and Staff and Right Start. I wouldn't even know really where to begin though. I know I can't go with something that shows how to come up with the answer in more than one way. We used Calvert math one year and I thought her head was going to explode. You can't teach her 10 different ways to add a problem. It has to be one, but the right one and that's it. Otherwise she's confused and she will look at you like your speaking Swahili. She just wants to know that 5+5=10. The nice part is this week they are going to have an open house for the school so I'm going to go in and spead the day in her class to see how it is her teacher is teaching the Saxon math. I had used it when we first homeschooled. I used Saxon K with her when she was 4 and Saxon 1 when she was 5. She did really really well with it then. I had to switch with a cyberschool then and they used Calvert. I juggled two math programs but when I had my youngest daughter she was born with multiple health problems and I no longer had the time to juggle them both. I had to chose one over the other and I had to go with Calvert because Saxon didn't line up with what was being taught and what was on the test. Once I went with Calvert all was lost. Edited February 13, 2011 by TracyR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Ds is learning his math facts with some of the Dinah Zike stuff (and a few other activities). I am helping him to put together a binder of these math resources, and he really likes reviewing math facts this way. He's not crafty, so he didn't like making them, but I bet your dd might! :001_smile: Hmm. I'll have to look into this. She LOVES crafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacefully Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 It's no shock he would hate RS. RS relies on visualization and visual patterns. The games are auditory, and they couldn't make the facts stick for my dd either. So it's like it's all there (some visual, some auditory), but never in the right ways for certain kids. Love the explanations in it, especially the 4 digit subtraction, and I like the lowest levels (A, B, first half of C). But really, we needed a lot more visual, as in right in front of you visual, not expectation of visualization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacefully Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 No, I wouldn't go back to RS. I think Math Mammoth is superior. (I have no clue what you're using, just saying what I think and where *I* would put my time.) However I have been thinking of going back and doing some of the RS games now to see if they'd build some speed on my dd. I really don't know. For her, way back when, doing the games and getting fast at the WORDS didn't translate into being able to WRITE the math and get it out. There was this whole disconnect in her brain. She might as well have been saying dog plus cat equals train in all those RS games, because that's how it got filed. She'd play a game of things that make 10, be really fast at making them, and then totally fluster and act dumbfounded with a worksheet that said 8+2. There was just no connect. I'm not sure if we've really changed that. I know what I have changed is how I expect the stuff to go in and out. I put it in visually and get it out visually. I let her SEE the correct answers and the problems a lot. On the matching, the pairs of the facts are written out. So the cards she's matching up with both say 2X8=16. In visually, out visually. I got that How the Brain Learns Math book. It's in my stack to read one of these days. It sure was $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.