If you had one year left before high school..

[5LittleMonkeys]

and your dc had not had a full 4 year history cycle (and what she did have she didn't really retain much) but had also not had any Am. history since 4th grade would you...

 

do a one year (middle school) Am. History program OR a one year overview of world history?

 

I can not find a 4 year program that I want to use in high school so was just going to go with a traditional route. Plus this dd does not really care for history...she is my math and science dd.

 

World Geography - Runkle's World Physical Geography along with something to supplement the political geography aspect.(haven't decided yet)

World History - Notgrass- Exploring World History

American History - Notgrass- Exploring American History

Government and Economics - Notgrass- Exploring Economics\Exploring Government

 

Could you also recommend what I could use for whichever you think would be better? Thank you!

[elegantlion]

That's a tough call. We don't follow a four year rotation. We did American in 4th and I like to think ds remembers more than he does. This year we're doing Asian history so we're way out of the ballpark. My plan is to hit renaissance and reformation next year and then do a solid US/Modern World history in 9th.

 

However with your plan it appears she won't have any american history until 11th. Is history covered on tests like the PSAT? I don't even have a clue.

 

If it were me I'd probably do a world history and then do American history in 10th. You could supplement the world portion with some American videos from Hippocampus or other sources.

 

Even better I'd probably let her pick a period of history and study it more in depth. A whirlwind tour through world history might make her like history even less. That why we chose Asian this year, it's fascinating and has made my ds more interested in culture and history. If you're worried about her understanding the context of history I'd buy something like the DK Visual Guide to history and have her read through it, it's a beautiful book.

[swimmermom3]

That's a tough call. We don't follow a four year rotation. We did American in 4th and I like to think ds remembers more than he does. This year we're doing Asian history so we're way out of the ballpark. My plan is to hit renaissance and reformation next year and then do a solid US/Modern World history in 9th.

 

However with your plan it appears she won't have any american history until 11th. Is history covered on tests like the PSAT? I don't even have a clue.

 

If it were me I'd probably do a world history and then do American history in 10th. You could supplement the world portion with some American videos from Hippocampus or other sources.

 

Even better I'd probably let her pick a period of history and study it more in depth. A whirlwind tour through world history might make her like history even less. That why we chose Asian this year, it's fascinating and has made my ds more interested in culture and history. If you're worried about her understanding the context of history I'd buy something like the DK Visual Guide to history and have her read through it, it's a beautiful book.

 

I have nothing to add except that I love the quote in your signature, Paula.:001_smile:

[regentrude]

I'd do neither. I'd let my child chose a period in history which she would like to study and have her study it to her heart's content.

We were in exactly that situation when I started hsing my DD in 7th (we started the highschool history sequence in 8th). She chose to study the Renaissance. She got to pick research topics, write reports, do posters, make presentations. I kept her supplied with books, documentaries and suggestions. She had fun, learned a lot. It was very nice not having to worry about "finishing" a certain curriculum or being "on target". She could just learn at her pace.

I would not worry at all about not covering everything before highschool. If the cover it once thoroughly in highschool, that is sufficient.

[Tiffnkids]

Here is what I plan to do (I think). Oldest dd is in 8th. We're doing middle ages this year. For 9th and 10th, I plan to finish "the rotation," do American history in 11th, and American government and economics in 12th.

 

If I wasn't already halfway through a rotation, then I would probably do a half year of geography and a half year of American government in 8th. Two years of world history for 9th and 10th. American history for 11th. A half year of economics and a half year of psychology or sociology for 12th.

[5LittleMonkeys]

She's been doing a mythology study this year but said she felt like she was about finished with it. When I started thinking about what she would do next year I guess I was just concerned about her "catching up" before high school. I was also concerned about the fact that she was only going to get one year of World history, which I've heard some say isn't long enough.

 

I know she isn't going to be needing any super in depth study of history for a major or minor for that matter. She will be majoring in a science field. So, I suppose I just need to stop worrying about those gaps that probably won't be a concern.

 

I think I'll ask her if she can come up with a few topics of study for next year. Thanks for the advice!

[rlugbill]

My 2 pennies. College professors won't assume that your child already knows the content that the course covers. The professor and the text will teach the content. However, the college professor will assume that your child can think critically and write well and take tests before that student sets foot in college and the professor will grade your child based on both content knowledge and on these skills.

 

No one is going to be holding your child's hand and teaching your child those skills. They will be assumed to already be there and if they aren't, no one will be teaching them. (I know this is a generalization). So, I believe it is critically important to teach those skills before your child goes to college.

 

I would emphasize those skills, rather than concerning yourself too much over which type of history to cover. Study some period or topic and then discuss it with your child in depth. Read some different books about the same period so you get different viewpoints. Then, have your child write a paper about it. Give the child some ideas and/or questions on how to make the paper better and have them re-write it, until it's top quality. Then, have a test about the topic or period- preferable an essay test.

 

Then pick another topic or period and do something like that again. Go for depth, rather than breadth of coverage. You could alternate between topics of American history and world history if you're not sure which is more important.

 

Some people tend to emphasize that the child is an American and they tend to emphasize U.S. history over world history. Others think that children are citizens of the world first and Americans second, so world history is more important. Most schools and educators strike a balance between the two.

 

But, I would emphasize the skills over the particular content. Skills are what will help your child succeed in college. They really don't assume much content knowledge in college, but they will assume your child can write a good paper and can think critically and analyze things and take tests well.

[Mandy in TN]

avoidance

 

Why don't you use one of the Beautiful Feet guides that covers US and world history? You could use the Jr High Early American and World History. You could do it lightly to allow more time for science/ math, but it may be a good ramp for moving on to the Notgrass courses that also incorporate literature.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[5LittleMonkeys]

My 2 pennies. College professors won't assume that your child already knows the content that the course covers. The professor and the text will teach the content. However, the college professor will assume that your child can think critically and write well and take tests before that student sets foot in college and the professor will grade your child based on both content knowledge and on these skills.

 

No one is going to be holding your child's hand and teaching your child those skills. They will be assumed to already be there and if they aren't, no one will be teaching them. (I know this is a generalization). So, I believe it is critically important to teach those skills before your child goes to college.

 

I would emphasize those skills, rather than concerning yourself too much over which type of history to cover. Study some period or topic and then discuss it with your child in depth. Read some different books about the same period so you get different viewpoints. Then, have your child write a paper about it. Give the child some ideas and/or questions on how to make the paper better and have them re-write it, until it's top quality. Then, have a test about the topic or period- preferable an essay test.

 

Then pick another topic or period and do something like that again. Go for depth, rather than breadth of coverage. You could alternate between topics of American history and world history if you're not sure which is more important.

 

Some people tend to emphasize that the child is an American and they tend to emphasize U.S. history over world history. Others think that children are citizens of the world first and Americans second, so world history is more important. Most schools and educators strike a balance between the two.

 

But, I would emphasize the skills over the particular content. Skills are what will help your child succeed in college. They really don't assume much content knowledge in college, but they will assume your child can write a good paper and can think critically and analyze things and take tests well.

 

This is excellent advice...and actually I was telling someone else this very thing a few months ago. I get these waves of panic occasionally making me think I'm not doing enough. We have been concentrating on the types of skills your talking about this year; which is why we haven't been doing formal history or science. I just need to trust that this is what is going to prepare her the best. Thank you.

[PeterPan]

I would do none of those. I would take a year off from regular history and do a history of science, inventions, and math. Hakim has a history of science series. She's not a history person, so don't shove it down her throat. Why make her do the Notgrass (reasonably considered high school) history now and then have to do something harder in high school??? Save the Notgrass sequence, if she likes it, for high school. Do something interest-based she can enjoy now. Ditto on world geography. Why do it now if it can count for high school credit (and get her out of a year of the dreaded history) by waiting?

 

I'm a history hater btw. Textbooks were good for me, because I could wrap my brain around them. BJU's textbooks are particularly good, but Notgrass might be fine, haven't seen it enough to have an opinion. The ONLY history that has been relatively interesting to me was russian history, and that was because I was studying it at the time (late high school). So I would use your freedom now to explore some interest-based stuff, hang the regular history, and leave some time at the end of her high schooling for a little more interest-based if any happens to appear.

 

The reason history doesn't work for some people is it's not concrete. It's like trying to wrestle infinity. It just keeps going on with details and goes on forever. So when you get to the high school stuff, make it very concrete: outline the text, have vocab lists, questions to answer, maps with specifics of what you expect, clear study guides. This might suck the joy out for some people, but it makes it manageable for others.

Edited February 11, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[5LittleMonkeys]

Why don't you use one of the Beautiful Feet guides that covers US and world history? You could use the Jr High Early American and World History. You could do it lightly to allow more time for science/ math, but it may be a good ramp for moving on to the Notgrass courses that also incorporate literature.

 

HTH-

Mandy

 

I'll take a look at this ... it might be an option if she can't choose her own topic of interest. Thanks.

[Wildiris]

My 2 pennies. College professors won't assume that your child already knows the content that the course covers. The professor and the text will teach the content. However, the college professor will assume that your child can think critically and write well and take tests before that student sets foot in college and the professor will grade your child based on both content knowledge and on these skills.

 

No one is going to be holding your child's hand and teaching your child those skills. They will be assumed to already be there and if they aren't, no one will be teaching them. (I know this is a generalization). So, I believe it is critically important to teach those skills before your child goes to college.

 

I would emphasize those skills, rather than concerning yourself too much over which type of history to cover. Study some period or topic and then discuss it with your child in depth. Read some different books about the same period so you get different viewpoints. Then, have your child write a paper about it. Give the child some ideas and/or questions on how to make the paper better and have them re-write it, until it's top quality. Then, have a test about the topic or period- preferable an essay test.

 

Then pick another topic or period and do something like that again. Go for depth, rather than breadth of coverage. You could alternate between topics of American history and world history if you're not sure which is more important.

 

Some people tend to emphasize that the child is an American and they tend to emphasize U.S. history over world history. Others think that children are citizens of the world first and Americans second, so world history is more important. Most schools and educators strike a balance between the two.

 

But, I would emphasize the skills over the particular content. Skills are what will help your child succeed in college. They really don't assume much content knowledge in college, but they will assume your child can write a good paper and can think critically and analyze things and take tests well.

This is awesome advice!!! It has given me something to think about, but I have reservations. Since we're talking 8th grade and not high school, I'd consider a broad coverage of world history that would include American history in the context of world history.

 

My Opinion:

I think it invaluable to build a continuum of history in the mind, to know that the Spanish colonies in the New World predate American colonies, or that the American Revolution came before the French Revolution. Going in depth to foster critical thinking by gathering alternate points of view on a historical event or person could easily be done on several topics during the year. Keeping it manageable and interesting to a teen is important. Too big a project and it might not get done.

 

[Lori D.]

Some random thoughts that may or not be useful as you consider what to do for your 8th grade Social Studies...

 

- Amer. Hist. is a required credit in high school

(so, DD will at least be exposed to it later on if you don't do it now)

 

- World Hist. of some sort is also a required credit in high school

(so, DD will be exposed to some segment of world history later on if you don't do it now)

 

- a good chunk of Amer. Hist. overlaps with 20th century world history

(so, if you DO decide to do world history in grade 8, you may want to focus on earlier time periods, as at least DD will be exposed to modern world history somewhat through Amer. Hist.)

 

 

My opinion, FWIW:

Instead of trying to jam in a year of a subject that is not your DD's favorite -- and that you've covered somewhat in past years (and *will* cover to some extent in high school) -- I'd encourage you to consider taking 8th grade as a chance to develop some logic and critical thinking skills, and get some good exposure to worldview through a world culture / world geography / comparative religions year rather than a history year.

 

First, it's a nice break from all the history.

 

Second, middle school students are the *perfect* age for getting into logic and for looking at the world and seeing how religion and worldview really *shape* culture -- and hence, history. That makes a fantastic foundation for really understanding and analyzing/discussing history later on in high school.

 

Third, life can throw us big curve balls, and DC may end up going to a high school rather than homeschooling all through high school -- so 8th grade is often your last chance to get in any NON-standard Social Studies (non-Western cultures, for example), or other subjects that you just frankly are not going to have time for anymore in high school -- esp. those last 2 years of high school! -- whether DC homeschool or go to a high school.

 

Finally, by doing a world culture/geography/comparative religions/worldview year with your older student, it would also allow you to bring along your younger DC with books from SL 5, and/or MFW's ECC -- a last year to have something your whole family can all do together before older DD is off and running solo in the high school race. :)

 

 

Ideas for World Culture/World Geography Materials

- Runkle's is straight up geography but quite dry; in this past post is what we did as our world culture/geography year for our then-7th and -8th grade DSs)

- cultural books from various SL cores (not just SL5)

- movies from the library set in different cultures; documentaries/travelog DVDs

- Milliken publishers' "The World's Great Religions" series: "Inside ..." (Hinduism; Buddhism; Islam; Judaism; and Christianity)

 

And be sure to include:

- Fallacy Detective (a great beginning Logic book)

- How To Be Your Own Selfish Pig (great beginning worldview book)

 

And a great Christian Worldview Program to consider:

- possibly Summit Ministry's middle school level Lightbearers Christian worldview curriculum = http://www.summit.org/curriculum/middle-school/home-school/

 

 

 

And just in case it is of help/interest, our history rotation quickly went from attempting the 3 4-year cycles, to going to 1 6-year cycle, then a fantastic world culture/geography/comparative religions year, and now in high school, we've followed DSs interests:

gr. 8/9 = Ancient World History (not Notgrass) -- and Ancient Great Books for our Lit.

gr. 9/10 = 20th Century World History (not Notgrass) -- and made our own Worldviews in Classic Sci-Fi Lit.

gr. 10/11 = American History (Notgrass -- loved it) -- and made our own Amer. Lit.; also did Government, as it goes so very well with Amer. Hist.

gr. 11/12 = I thought we'd do a year of Medieval-to-Enlightenment World History, but we're only getting little bits in here and there, which will only add up to about .5 credit. We are doing our own British Lit.; and the 1-semester of Economics this year, too.

 

We are not using Notgrass for Gov't or Econ; instead:

 

 

NON- NOTGRASS GOV'T IDEAS

- Great Source American Gov't textbook (pretty dry -- perhaps the free Gov't text material at Hippocampus, or The Complete Idiot's Guide to American Government, or Notgrass, might have been more interesting??)

- participation in our state's Youth & Gov't program (very fun and very informative -- each DS will end up having done it for 3 years)

- "Are You Liberal, Conservative, or Confused?" by Maybury (entertaining and informative, but of a very persistently Libertarian type of point of view)

 

 

NON- NOTGRASS ECONOMICS IDEAS

- Dave Ramsey's Foundations in Personal Finance, DVD and workbook set (FANTASTIC! very practical, helpful, specific info that EVERY teen should have!! and the DVD lessons are quite entertaining as well as informative)

- Teaching Company Economics (we're using the DVDs; good practice in note-taking in a lecture; very clearly presented information on general micro and macro economics topics)

- "Whatever Happened to Penny Candy" by Maybury (entertaining and informative, but of a very persistently Libertarian type of point of view)

 

 

BEST of luck, whatever you go with! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Lori D.
added info

[5LittleMonkeys]

Lori,

 

As usual you've set my head spinning.:tongue_smilie: But that is a good thing! I was actually sitting here going over a post from a while ago about what lit you choose to do with your Notgrass Am. History.

 

She is doing Fallacy Detective this year and will move onto Thinking Toolbox before the end of the year. But we haven't done any Christian Worldview studies so I will look into that for next year.

 

Here is the problem with the geography though. My cover school requires a year of World Geography in high school. I WAS all set to do the Runkle's next year but now will have to hold off and do it in 9th. So, would you recommend doing the culture\religion study along with the geography in 9th or would you suggest going ahead with it next year and if so what would I tie it to since we can't do World geography two years in a row? I suppose it could stand alone but I wonder if there would be a way to tie that into her interests.

 

I was talking to her tonight and she mentioned that she would like to do a more in depth study of the middle ages but wanted to learn about how the middle ages became so romanticized. She wants to know if there are any truths in the stories of King Arthur and Robin Hood and such. I think Terry Jone's Medieval Lives would be a good addition to this study but not sure what else I could include. Any suggestions on that?

[klmama]

Lori,

 

She wants to know if there are any truths in the stories of King Arthur and Robin Hood and such. I think Terry Jone's Medieval Lives would be a good addition to this study but not sure what else I could include. Any suggestions on that?

 

Well, Arthur was probably based on a real military leader. The first Latin chronicle to mention the name "Arthur" is the History of the Britons (Historia Brittonum), believed to have been compiled around 800 by a Welshman named Nennius from native Welsh sources, particularly the Welsh triads. Over time, more details were added to the story, until it became the romance people know today. I have an old book called The Romance of Arthur that explains a lot about all that - not sure if it's in print anymore.

 

If she is interested in seeing the progression over time, she could research Arthur and related stories in the Latin Chronicles, the early Welsh tradition, the Tale of Culhwch and Olwen, the work of Geoffrey of Monmouth, Cretien de Troyes, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and Malory's Morte D'Arthur (a modern translation will be easier than the original, of course). There are other more recent works, as well, such as works by Alfred, Lord Tennyson and even more recently by T. H. White. Then there are the other related stories, such as Parzival or Tristan and Isolde. Lots of options for Arthur study. :001_smile:

[Lori D.]

As usual you've set my head spinning.:tongue_smilie:

 

 

heh-heh-heh... I seem to excel at that when people were really looking for specific answers... :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

Here is the problem with the geography though. My cover school requires a year of World Geography in high school. I WAS all set to do the Runkle's next year but now will have to hold off and do it in 9th.

 

 

Hmmm... Does your cover school allow you to take ANY credits in 8th grade and count them as high school? For example, counting Algebra 1 in 8th grade as a math credit for high school.

 

If not, then I don't see why you couldn't do worldview / world culture / world geography / comparative religions and lump it all together for your Social Studies (Geography) credit in 9th grade (unless the cover school specifies what can and can't be used for curriculum).

 

 

 

... she mentioned that she would like to do a more in depth study of the middle ages but wanted to learn about how the middle ages became so romanticized. She wants to know if there are any truths in the stories of King Arthur and Robin Hood and such. I think Terry Jone's Medieval Lives would be a good addition to this study but not sure what else I could include. Any suggestions on that?

 

 

Sounds like you may have just hit on your 8th grade Social Studies topic -- and started compiling your resource list. :) Here are a few articles:

 

Wikipedia = Robin Hood

Wikipedia = King Arthur

"Historicity of King Arthur"

"Short History of Arthurian Archeology"

Archeological Quest for the "real" King Arthur

Heritage Key = Top 10 Archeological Clues to the Real King Arthur

 

What about some documentaries?

King Arthur; early Britain: documentaries online

NOVA: Secrets of Lost Empires: How Did They Build Stonehenge info; video clips online

 

Have fun! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[elegantlion]

This is really a great book, The Search For King Arthur. It traces the origin of each of the major players in the Arthur legend. It studies the history, the literature, and even modern day adaptations. It's filled with wonderful artwork as well. Our library had it and after a review I made sure to snatch a copy off amazon before I mentioned it to anyone here. :lol:

 

The text is accessible and fitting for upper middle school. We plan to use our copy next year when we do LL Lotr (there is a unit study on Arthur).

[5LittleMonkeys]

Lori, as usual, thank you so much. I think I've got a good start now and see the direction I can take this. Kidlovingmomma and elegantlion, thank you also for the suggestions.:001_smile:

 

As for my cover school, they will allow the credit but not the grade. Having never dealt with high school before I wasn't sure how that would affect things. :confused: Of coarse now I'm kind of excited about this other study.:tongue_smilie: