DE...AP...CC... how on earth am I supposed to figure this all out?

[Heather in Neverland]

I remember when ds was 6 or 7yo and reading these boards and reading the mommy panic when it came time to "get serious" about high school and college planning. And I remembered how relieved I was because I didn't have to go through that yet.

 

HA! Jokes on me because ds is a rising 8th grader and high school is nearly upon us along with the usual panics:

 

which classes/subjects will be best prepare him to score well on the ACT and SAT?

 

which classes/subjects do colleges REALLY want to see on his transcript?

 

should he enroll in a slew of AP classes? (although from what I am reading he must pass the test with a 5 these days...)

 

should he dual-enroll at a college? (but how do you guarantee his credits will transfer?)

 

should we consider CC classes while he is still in HS? (some say colleges like CC classes, others say they don't)

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

I have been reading through old threads about all these topics and it seems like there are no "real" answers. For every "pro-DE" post there is a "pro-AP" post. IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY.

 

Where is the list of "these are the classes he should take" and the "he should DEFINITELY take AP/DE"?

 

It all seems so nebulous... my head hurts. I think this process will be the death of me and this is my oldest child. I have two more AFTER him.

[Tullia]

One way to eliminate options that don't apply is to have at least a general idea of what kind of college would probably be a good fit. Is your goal an Ivy? A small LAC? State university? Christian? Look at their requirements and keep them in mind when you make a high school plan. I had no idea what ds would choose, so I did take the time to make a transcript that would pass muster for a selective private or public college. However, when the time came he chose an in-state school. NM colleges and universities admit homeschoolers and also award merit aid on SAT or ACT scores. The transcript wasn't wasted; if nothing else it helped keep me focused and was proof that we were really accomplishing something on those days when I wasn't sure.

[creekland]

Colleges generally want to see:

 

4 English

4 Math

4 Science (can be 3 for a non-science major)

3 History (more for a history major)

2 Foreign Language (years, not languages)

1 Health

and Electives based on interest and variety.

 

AP seems to be the most common preferred thing, but my oldest didn't have any and middle son is only going to have 1 course/test that's AP.

 

Oldest had one cc course (it transferred). Middle already has two and isn't necessarily expecting one to transfer due to wanting med school later in life. The other might. These were both from dual enrollment.

 

You don't need tons. You need enough to support your grades - enough to show that kiddo can handle the work at a college level.

 

Another option to substantiate your grades are SAT Subject Tests. Middle son might take two of those. We haven't decided yet. Some colleges require them of all applicants, some don't require any.

 

In your case, you're overseas. Colleges will understand if certain things can't easily be done in your area. You don't need to stress or overload. It'll work.

[FloridaLisa]

:grouphug: It's like my dad's colleague, who emigrated from the Soviet Union and had a headache when he went shopping because of all the choices! We Americans rejoiced at the choices, he got headaches. :001_smile:

 

First, take a deep breath and remember that 9th grade is, in large part, just the next step from you have been doing in 8th. AP/DE/SAT/ACT will come into play, but moreso as he progresses through high school and less so in 9th grade. You have time to acclimate.

 

Second, it might seem nebulous but that's because there is just no one way to skin the cat (I really don't like that saying). It depends on your dc's learning style, interests, capabilities as well as his possible career path, likely college and post-high school plans. It may look different for each one of your kids.

 

Third, don't try to plan the entire high school scope and sequence right now! It's actually helpful to write out a 4-year plan in pencil, but hold it loosely. Start with what you know your dc needs each year: math, science, social science, English, foreign language and add in any electives that he may need or want. You can tweak the plan as each year rolls around.

 

For now, your best bet is to do just what you are doing -- educate yourself on all of the possible high school options. Know when he needs to take the PSAT or SAT and what classes colleges want to see in high school. Hang out on the high school board, but don't get too caught up in what everyone else is doing. :001_smile: Keep your eye on your dc's goals and opportunities and you will do fine! It's amazing to see how God will provide as you continue to seek him through these last (and best) homeschool years.

 

Lisa

[Moira in MA]

Here's my recommendation ..er sermon -- take a deep breath, internalize this:

 

No matter what you do, your child(ren) tell you that you have ruined his/her/their life by some decision you made because you absolutely knew it was no-brainer. It will *not* be a decision you have agonized about. [end sermon]

 

Basically, my suggestion is that you do what seems right and doable for your situation. Try not to buy into the hype.

 

In my case dd1 did 7 AP's (1 10th, 3 11th, 3 12th) she earned enough credit to test out of a year at uni.

dd2 will take fewer (1 10th, 2 11th, ? 12th)

 

We haven't pursued DE.

 

imho APs that are capstone courses are the most worthwhile for homeschoolers: English Lang/Eng Lit/Calculus AB or BC/Foreign Lang; maybe a science (to prove that homeschoolers can do labs <g>)

 

hth

~Moira

[Photo Ninja]

 

which classes/subjects will be best prepare him to score well on the ACT and SAT?

 

which classes/subjects do colleges REALLY want to see on his transcript?

 

should he enroll in a slew of AP classes? (although from what I am reading he must pass the test with a 5 these days...)

 

should he dual-enroll at a college? (but how do you guarantee his credits will transfer?)

 

should we consider CC classes while he is still in HS? (some say colleges like CC classes, others say they don't)

 

It all seems so nebulous... my head hurts.

 

The problem is that the answers vary because universities have different entrance and course transfer requirements. Some will accept AP scores as college credit, and others will only accept them as meeting a lower level course requirement but don't give any actual credit. Some don't accept any AP courses at all or only accept them if they are not in the student's major area. Some universities don't like to transfer in community college courses, but we have not encountered any of those personally. I read about them on this forum. So the bottom line is that there is no real answer that will apply to every student.

 

To score well on the SAT/ACT: Have solid essay writing skills along with grammar, spelling, punctuation and organizational skills. English courses should include reading literature and doing analysis, reading comprehension, etc. Math should include mastery or at least skill in all the basics as well as Algebra and Geometry. Knowing Trig will make the test scores even better.

 

Colleges want to see the courses they require on the transcript. This varies by university and by the major within the university. If you plan for 4 years of English, 4 years of math, 4 of social studies (including U.S history, World History, semester of Government/Civics, semester of Economics), 3-4 years of lab science (including Biology and Chemistry), 2-3 years of the same foreign language, 1 year of Fine Arts your dc should be fine. Of course, this needs to be adjusted according to the university. Some will accept less social studies and math, and others may want more Fine Arts. If your child wants to be a music or art major then there should be more music and art courses. Some universities are fine with 2 years of lab science if the major is not a health or science major. Just start out with a basic plan and fine tune it later.

 

AP Classes? It depends. If he wants to go to a university that accepts AP courses, then he could take them and the tests. He will need to score a 4 or 5 to make it matter. He needs to be a good test taker to go this route because everything depends on scoring high on one test at the end of the year.

 

Community College/Dual Enrollment: It depends. If he wants to attend a university that accepts community college credits, he could do this. He needs to do well in the classes and keep up his college GPA because it will follow him through college even if he is only in 10th grade when he takes the course. Most community college course catalogs designate whether the course will transfer to the state universities or private universities in the state. Transferring to out of state universities is up to that university.

If your child intends to attend a university in your state, he should be able to take courses that are guaranteed to transfer.

 

Personal story on deciding between AP and CC courses: My dc needed to decide whether or not to take AP courses. They all decided (at different times) not to take AP classes because they thought it was not worth their time investment and was not a sure thing. They did not like that success or failure was tied to one test at the end of the year. They chose to dual enroll at the community college because they knew their courses would transfer to universities. It was a sure thing. They liked the pace of the cc classes, completing them in one semester instead of a year long AP course. When it came time to go to the university: One ds went to a private university after high school graduation and it transferred in all his community college courses. Another decided to stay at the cc and complete his undergrad courses, then transferred to a state university. They transferred in all his cc credits. He couldn't get classes there because of state cutbacks, so he ended up transferring to an out of state, state university which transferred in most his cc credits. He challenged them on the courses they did not transfer in, and ended up receiving credit for all his cc courses. My dd will have an AA (took lots of cc courses during high school, going full time at the cc) and the out of state university she will be going to is accepting her AA as completing her undergrad requirements. Two of my dc have merit scholarships, one based on cc GPA and the other based on high school transcript GPA (includes cc course grades).

 

However, ds's friend took a cc class with ds. Ds's friend only got a "C" in the course and decided not to risk his GPA by taking any more. He was not ready for the cc course content or pace. He did, however, start taking AP courses. I think he scored 5s in 4 or 5 AP tests and 4s on a few more. AP courses were a much better choice for him, and he entered a university with many freshman level courses completed. He did not receive any credits for the AP test scores, but he got to start taking higher level courses and did get a good merit scholarship.

 

All that to say that you need to determine which direction is the best for each individual child. There is no one size fits all direction because our dc are individuals and have different abilities and goals and will go to different universities.

 

So set a general direction with your high school plans, and tweak it every year as your dc's goals become more specific and he decides on some specific universities.

[Kareni]

Colleges generally want to see:

 

4 English

4 Math

4 Science (can be 3 for a non-science major)

3 History (more for a history major)

2 Foreign Language (years, not languages)

1 Health

and Electives based on interest and variety.

 

 

 

and, if your child is aiming high,

 

4 English

4 Math

4 Science (at least 2 or 3 with labs)

4 History/Social Sciences

4 Foreign Language (ideally of the same language)

plus electives

 

Regards,

Kareni

[choirfarm]

One way to eliminate options that don't apply is to have at least a general idea of what kind of college would probably be a good fit. Is your goal an Ivy? A small LAC? State university? Christian? Look at their requirements and keep them in mind when you make a high school plan. I had no idea what ds would choose, so I did take the time to make a transcript that would pass muster for a selective private or public college. However, when the time came he chose an in-state school. NM colleges and universities admit homeschoolers and also award merit aid on SAT or ACT scores. The transcript wasn't wasted; if nothing else it helped keep me focused and was proof that we were really accomplishing something on those days when I wasn't sure.

 

I agree. You need to talk to your child and figure out what sort of school he wants to attend. For us, it is looking like Baylor, LeTourneau or other private universities. He is also thinking computer science. So I went to their website and printed off what they wanted for admission, what classes transfer, what scores on AP give you credit, etc. I have a notebook where I keep all of this information for him to refer to as we get closer. Each school has a separate divider. I also printed the different degree plans he was interested in.

 

And did you know that the STATs AP class he's taking probably won't matter for college credit. The stats he would place out of, isn't the one in the degrees he is looking at. Do I think it is a waste...NO!!! For one thing, this class has beeen a great learning experience about being responsible to someone else. He hasn't understood a couple of concepts and had to figure out. He is enjoying the subject matter. For example, the study about diet drinks possibly causing cancer, he proceeded to tell me how they left out the confounding variables and other statistical information. He said that even if he doesn't do anything with it, it has made his reading of scientific and political polls much more meaningful.

 

Christine

[Jane in NC]

Colleges want to see interesting and motivated students. So there is more to a student than his transcript and Advanced Placement/Dual Enrollment credits, although these credits sometimes help paint a picture of who the applicant is.

 

Another consideration: Not every student has access to the same opportunities. When my son was in 8th or 9th grade, I had thought that maybe he would try a balancing act (a couple of APs, a couple of CC classes, maybe some CLEPs) to justify mommy grades. The more I read though, it became apparent that CLEP credits were not accepted at the sorts of schools to which he was applying. College admissions officers actively encouraged us to have our son take a class or two at the CC even if it did not transfer. One fellow (at my husband's alma mater) said that he recruits homeschool students but he suggests that they take a couple of CC classes so that he knows they will succeed in a traditional classroom. (No tomatoes, please. That was his policy.)

 

Then we learned that the high schools near us gave a limited number of AP exams. This reduced the possibilities for what he could take. The public high school nearest me never returned my phone calls. I had to work on establishing a relationship with a counselor at a high school in my county so that my son could take the PSAT and AP exams. Other people are more fortunate.

 

SAT subject exams are another tool that admissions counselors use to evaluate students. One of the colleges to which my son applied required all students (not just homeschoolers) to submit SAT scores with two SAT subjects or the ACT with writing. These exams are easier for homeschoolers to take in that one signs up online and is assigned a testing location.

 

AP and Dual enrollment can give students a leg up on their credits (and reduce the overall cost of college) but whether that is meaningful depends on the student. My son attends a Liberal Arts College with a unique four year path. Those coming in with credits still follow the path.

 

Colleges want to see students who take advantage of opportunities. In this way, I think that a homeschooled student can skip AP or CC to create a more meaningful application than a traditionally schooled kid. My son's volunteer work on an archaeological dig led to his application essay, his senior project, his development of a passion. He was accepted at all of the colleges to which he applied.

 

Being in Malaysia, your children will have the opportunity to develop passions and perform community service not usually seen by the people who read through stacks of applications. You can make a transcript appear more traditional (reflecting a typical US college bound high school student) or be creative by taking advantage of the unique opportunity you are enjoying. Of course, the latter may be a bit more scary--as well as more fun.

[Heather in Neverland]

As usual I have learned far more by asking questions here than I have learned on the websites!!! :D

 

Dh and I have some big decisions to make about our next five years and how it all relates to our first child's college choices. Thank goodness there is a 6 year gap between each of our kids. I think I will need that time rest up for the next one!!!! :tongue_smilie:

[Janice in NJ]

Heather,

 

it.is.not.easy.

Period.

Apparently lots of folks are willing to homeschool through 8th grade. From what I've heard and read, that number drops off quite a bit for high school. Just look at the materials available. TONS for K-8. Not as much for high school. Why? I suspect there just isn't as much money to be made because of the slimmer market.

 

So you are right to feel what you are feeling. It is not easy. Figuring all of this out is not easy.

 

But it can be done. But it's a lot like hsing little ones. Lots of voices. Lots of choices. Which is good, right? Now you just have to do what you did when you settled on a 2nd grade math program: get as much information as you can. And then assess your choices in light of your child. Try some things. But be wise and keep your options open. NOT everything will work. So it's best to keep yourself educated about your options so you can tweak as you go.

 

Not every kid will go to MIT. Not every kid belongs at Princeton. But some do. (Isn't life grand?) SO not every kid needs to be on a super-accelerated academic track. Wrong tracks for a TON of kids. :001_smile: That's where a ton of the chatter comes from. The best can be great or it can be bad. So don't forget the biggest advantage you have in hsing: the ability to personalize your child's education. It's your strongest trump card. Huge! Instead of trying to find some "best" path for your kid, focus on finding the "right" path for him/her. Because just as your child blossomed when you located the right math program, it's a grand ride to watch them become who they were created to be when you find the "right" path - it's the BEST! :001_smile:

 

So feel what you need to feel. (I know - it's frustrating. I can't tell you how many times I just wanted someone to tell me what to do! Oh My!) So feel - yes! But then do what you think is right. Revisit often. You'll be typing these kinds of posts before you know it. ;) It really is possible to generally understand this process. But it didn't happen for me until I did it. And I tried - really, I did. But things didn't become clear until I actually started to emerge from the tunnel. Ds is getting acceptance letters and merit awards. But we're still not done. Still. But I'm starting to understand more. Tons more. Thank goodness I don't have to go into this BLIND two more times. THAT would put me in the nut house. I have two very different kids coming up, so it will be different. But I understand the process more now. And I better understand the balance between a parent's expectation and the child's personality. Great stuff. But it's not really something you can convey. I can only hope to inspire you to persevere. (sorry)

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey