Off in the History Cycle, what to do Next year?

[coffeefreak]

So, here's my next set of questions:D

 

We are finishing up 1850-MOD using MFW. Technically, we should cycle around and do ECC, Ancient History and then Rome to Reformation. But, then she's off going into 9th grade, and I wouldn't want to go into Ancient History again. I can't believe I'm doing this when MFW has worked so well for us, but I'm thinking about using Sonlight's Core 5, and then doing Core 6 and 7 (two years of world history) to kind of "speed through" before high school. I have thought about skipping ECC and doing MFW CTG, RTR, and EX-1850, but we did EX-1850 last year and I just think she'd be bored. Also, I have my other dd who is 3 years younger than her to think of, and UGH!!!! Decisions decisions!!!

 

And, on top of all that, my oldest is STILL sick of Ancient History. We're talking she wants to skip a year of history if the only thing we study is Ancient history.

 

So, here are the different options I'm looking at:

 

Option 1:

MFW ECC (6th/3rd), CTG(7th/4th), RTR(8th/5th), and then high school for my oldest (maybe MFW, maybe someone else) starting over with the Ancients, while my youngest cycles through the rest of MFW.

 

Option 2:

MFW ECC (6th/3rd), and then Omnibus for my oldest through High School, while my youngest cycles through MFW. Then, they'd at least be in the same time period for several years.

 

Option 3:

Oldest: Sonlight Core 5 (6th), Core 6 (7th), Core 7 (8th)

Youngest: MFW even though it will probably kill me money wise.

 

Option 4:

Something I haven't thought of that you will tell me and magically solve all my problems!:D

 

Oh, and here's a separate thread that lists my questions about Core 5:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244122

 

Thanks for your help!

Dorinda

[PeterPan]

You consider her 5th this year? So you're concerned about 3 years (6th-8th) and high school? Well first of all, if you like SL5, do it. I sort of wish we had just bought the core and done it. Instead we decided to piece things ourselves and have gotten side-tracked a lot. So in any case, a year of geography for 6th is a fine idea. Do you realize after that you'd have more interesting options? For instance, you could do core 100 (Hakim, a 1 year survey of american) for 7th, then start into a 4 year cycle in 8th. You'd finish that cycle in 11th, leaving her 12th for gov't/econ and/or some electives. My personal idea is brit lit, british history, and a senior trip to England. I'm sure you could dream up something better. :)

[RobinF]

Have you considered doing MFW for high school but doing it out of order? I am considering this for my 2nd and 3rd. My oldest will cycle through MFW perfectly. But the others will be at different places in the cycle. So what I am considering for him is 7th ECC, 8th RTR (while his brother is doing high school world history), 9th hs US, 10th hs US, 11th Ancients, 12 World.

 

So right now my oldest schedule will look like this

 

6th RtR

7th Ex

8th 1850

9th Ancient

10 World

11 US

12 US

 

#2 schedule will look like this

 

4th RtR

5th Ex

6th 1850

7th ECC

8th RtR

9th US

10th US

11th Ancient

12 th World

 

This will make it easier for me to keep them all on the same time period but not repeat Ancients too soon. I also have 2 more youngers that will work into this schedule also.

[coffeefreak]

You consider her 5th this year? So you're concerned about 3 years (6th-8th) and high school? Well first of all, if you like SL5, do it. I sort of wish we had just bought the core and done it. Instead we decided to piece things ourselves and have gotten side-tracked a lot. So in any case, a year of geography for 6th is a fine idea. Do you realize after that you'd have more interesting options? For instance, you could do core 100 (Hakim, a 1 year survey of american) for 7th, then start into a 4 year cycle in 8th. You'd finish that cycle in 11th, leaving her 12th for gov't/econ and/or some electives. My personal idea is brit lit, british history, and a senior trip to England. I'm sure you could dream up something better. :)

 

You must have been sitting in my living room all afternoon!:lol: DH and I are both on our laptops, reading the Sonlight Catalog and we totally agree with you. I LOVE MFW, but I feel like it would limit my oldest and she would be horribly bored. We're sold on Core 5, and figure after that we have MANY more options for both my oldest and my youngest. We could do what you suggest, or we could put her in Core 6 and my youngest back in MFW OR put my youngest in Core 1. The possibilities are endless.:D

 

It's funny because someone asked me about Sonlight in a PM and I really do feel like it's an awful lot of reading for 1st and 2nd, but my oldest actually liked it and misses all the reading.:rolleyes: If you ask me today what I'll do the year after, I'd say my youngest would go back to MFW CTG, but since I have Core 1 and 2, maybe I'll just use that. she would be in 3rd and 4th grade, a MUCH different age than my oldest was. I will keep the two MFW years I have (EX-1850 and 1850-Mod), I just love them and really don't care for Sonlight's Core 3 and 4 at all.

 

I love it when it all comes together, don't you?

Thanks!

Dorinda

[coffeefreak]

Have you considered doing MFW for high school but doing it out of order? I am considering this for my 2nd and 3rd. My oldest will cycle through MFW perfectly. But the others will be at different places in the cycle. So what I am considering for him is 7th ECC, 8th RTR (while his brother is doing high school world history), 9th hs US, 10th hs US, 11th Ancients, 12 World.

 

 

 

 

This will make it easier for me to keep them all on the same time period but not repeat Ancients too soon. I also have 2 more youngers that will work into this schedule also.

 

Robin,

I did think about that but I just don't see how that would work. Maybe I'm not thinking outside the box, but that year of US history is basically Bob Jones' 11th grade US history. The purpose of using it is so that the students can pass the AP US history exam when they're done. I could be wrong on that, but I'm almost positive that's how they explain it. I can't imagine using it with a 9th grader at all. I also don't care for Bob Jones, so that probably has a lot to do with it too.:blushing: I was REALLY disappointed with that choice, and that's what ultimately made me start looking at other programs. I think if my oldest had been on the MFW cycle from the beginning I would have used it for Jr High, and just found something else for High School, but since she's always been "OFF" I feel like I really have to do something else for the next 3 years.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though! I'm starting to realize just because you love something (I've also always loved HOD, but never been able to use it), doesn't mean it works toward your goals :(.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[PeterPan]

VP uses that BJU american history text as the history spine for Omnibus III, so it's a good text. I actually have very old (but very similar) versions of some of the history texts, and they're really not bad, for the right dc. The BJU textbooks are mighty handy for teaching outlining and textbook skills too. Not the only way, but a very nice way. :)

[LauraQ]

VP uses that BJU american history text as the history spine for Omnibus III, so it's a good text.

I didn't remember anything like this, and it would bug the crud out of me since I plan on dd doing Omni III next year, so I double checked my catalog. I don't see anything about BJU Amer Hist being used at all in VP's Omni III. Do you own an older version of the program that did? Or am I missing something?

 

The Primary books listed in the catalog are Abraham Lincoln (speaches), Anti-Federalist Papers, Communist Manifesto, Federalist Papers, Great Gatsby, Mein Kampf, Plymouth Plantation, Pilgrim's Progress, Reflections on the Revolution in France, Social Contract, Tale of Two Cities, Uncle Tom's Cabin and Westminster Confession of Faith. Also not in Secondary list or Reference Package.

[coffeefreak]

I didn't remember anything like this, and it would bug the crud out of me since I plan on dd doing Omni III next year, so I double checked my catalog. I don't see anything about BJU Amer Hist being used at all in VP's Omni III. Do you own an older version of the program that did? Or am I missing something?

 

The Primary books listed in the catalog are Abraham Lincoln (speaches), Anti-Federalist Papers, Communist Manifesto, Federalist Papers, Great Gatsby, Mein Kampf, Plymouth Plantation, Pilgrim's Progress, Reflections on the Revolution in France, Social Contract, Tale of Two Cities, Uncle Tom's Cabin and Westminster Confession of Faith. Also not in Secondary list or Reference Package.

 

:iagree:

Since I've been researching Omnibus, I've seen nothing about BJU's books. I just went and looked.

 

Are we looking in the wrong place OhElizabeth?

[amtmcm]

:iagree:

Since I've been researching Omnibus, I've seen nothing about BJU's books. I just went and looked.

 

Are we looking in the wrong place OhElizabeth?

 

I don't think OhElizabeth will mind me chiming in for her (since I'm up at this crazy hour). :)

 

VPSA includes BJU US History for Christian Schools in their Omnibus III bundle. Their summer reading list for Omni III includes chapters 1-5 of the text.

 

http://www.veritaspress.com/prodinfo.asp?number=003524

 

It's recommended as a history spine the same way Spievogel's Western Civ is recommended for Omni I & II.

 

ETA: I just bought BJU World History (10th grade) for my older DD to complete over the summer. In the same breath she was complaining about doing schoolwork over the summer she was pulling the book out of my hands to look up Napoleon. It's a very visually appealing set of books and I've enjoyed browsing through them during the last few days. I'm already anticipating some good discussions over the short answer/essay questions included in the Student Activity pages.

Edited February 11, 2011 by amtmcm

[PeterPan]

It's sold on p. 49 in the current catalog.

[coffeefreak]

It's sold on p. 49 in the current catalog.

 

It would probably help if I had a catalog. Their website is so cumbersome to me!

 

At any rate, I like it that VP gives you the choice with their books. Ask me when my dd is in 11th grade (not for another 6 years thank God!) if I've decided to use BJU,:D but it kind of bothers me that MFW WHOLE year is BJU's books. Why would I spend all that money? I could just buy the books from BJU? I don't know, maybe it's just me thinking inside the box. My oldest doesn't do well AT ALL with ANY text books, so I'm really looking to do High School with her the same way we've always done school, Charlotte Mason/WTMieish. Their other high school programs don't deviate from that so I have a hard time understanding why their American History one does.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[PeterPan]

Well Dorinda, just as your tip of the day, the BJU textbooks are meant to be outlined. My dd doesn't like textbooks either. In fact, if you could just craft and cook your way through history, throwing in historical fiction, that would be her. But the BJU textbooks are still really good spines for that. You just have to see that they're written to be outlined and taken apart. They're not a novel just to sit down and read. When you look at it that way and take them in chunks, they can be a very good spine. My dd is having very good retention with the BJU Life Science (7) we're doing right now, and I love what it's doing for her thought process. We outline the chapters together. It's conducive to it and building a WTM skill, something she's going to need for college anyway. Not the only way to do history or science obviously, but there's definitely a point where you start meeting the textbooks head-on and helping your dc find ways to work with them, since she'll probably need to.

 

With my dd we outline on the computer. She puts in the basic structure, reads the text, then we go back through and discuss and fill in more thoroughly. It has been a very good process for her, highly recommend.

[happygrrl]

... we plan to do a year of Brimwood Press materials in year 8. That will give us more time to shore up any skills before high school, as well as give us a history breather (It also gives this OCD mom a reason to start high school with ancients ;))

We will resume our TOG studies with ancients in Yr. 9

[coffeefreak]

Well Dorinda, just as your tip of the day, the BJU textbooks are meant to be outlined. My dd doesn't like textbooks either. In fact, if you could just craft and cook your way through history, throwing in historical fiction, that would be her. But the BJU textbooks are still really good spines for that. You just have to see that they're written to be outlined and taken apart. They're not a novel just to sit down and read. When you look at it that way and take them in chunks, they can be a very good spine. My dd is having very good retention with the BJU Life Science (7) we're doing right now, and I love what it's doing for her thought process. We outline the chapters together. It's conducive to it and building a WTM skill, something she's going to need for college anyway. Not the only way to do history or science obviously, but there's definitely a point where you start meeting the textbooks head-on and helping your dc find ways to work with them, since she'll probably need to.

 

With my dd we outline on the computer. She puts in the basic structure, reads the text, then we go back through and discuss and fill in more thoroughly. It has been a very good process for her, highly recommend.

 

Thanks OhElizabeth! That's really helpful. Did you see I posted questions about it on the High School board?:blush: I just had to know how people were liking it. I like your thought process on how to use the text books. The outlining in the Student book is what I LOVE about SOTW. It has really helped my oldest with narrating and dictation where things like WWE and other programs have not. I promise to keep an open mind.:D

 

... we plan to do a year of Brimwood Press materials in year 8. That will give us more time to shore up any skills before high school, as well as give us a history breather (It also gives this OCD mom a reason to start high school with ancients ;))

We will resume our TOG studies with ancients in Yr. 9

 

I like muddy waters, especially when we're discussing curriculum :lol:.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[PeterPan]

Yeah, I saw your thread on the hs board. I suggest you read the hs boards a while and do some learning yourself before drawing your conclusions. Almost everyone, at some point, uses textbooks with their kids. They might slow them down, add to them, etc. but they use them. And almost all kids going to college will need to be able to interact with textbooks. So no matter HOW you do things, it's a good idea to teach your dc to outline, how to break down something more complex that can't be learned with just a cursory reading. That's why WTM says to outline. We're all saying the same thing, that it's a skill to start working on. How you do it is your business. However if you do this, some of the questions about whether you want to use a textbook-driven core later might go away. Teach the skills, and she'll be able to apply them to anything.

[cbollin]

I just saw this thread after you did a spin off on high school......

 

In terms of doing ECC and then CTG and RTR in jr. high and then AHL in 9th...

 

it is working for us.

 

My oldest started MFW in 2nd grade with ECC before Adventures was written. That means she did ECC in 7th, and then CTG in 8th and this year in AHL.

 

The programs are that different of levels. It really is ok. I'd recommend you get something like God' World News or other current events magazine of your choice to keep on current history in jr. high school years.

 

Honestly, it has been just fine to do CTG in 8th and then AHL in 9th. In some ways it made it an easier transition on some of the work load for her, but the rhetoric level is very different from the 5 year cycle.

 

-crystal

[cbollin]

Have you considered doing MFW for high school but doing it out of order?

 

 

I'm not sure that having a 9th grade in MFW 11th grade will be an ideal fit for the majority of students due to writing instruction differences and they haven't gone through the entire bible yet. MFW really isn't written for that kind of multi level at high school.

 

The year 3 and 4 high school levels are written in mind for 11th and 12th graders.

 

food for thought and worth checking it out in person.

 

-crystal

[cbollin]

It would probably help if I had a catalog. Their website is so cumbersome to me!

 

At any rate, I like it that VP gives you the choice with their books. Ask me when my dd is in 11th grade (not for another 6 years thank God!) if I've decided to use BJU,:D but it kind of bothers me that MFW WHOLE year is BJU's books. Why would I spend all that money? I could just buy the books from BJU? I don't know, maybe it's just me thinking inside the box. My oldest doesn't do well AT ALL with ANY text books, so I'm really looking to do High School with her the same way we've always done school, Charlotte Mason/WTMieish. Their other high school programs don't deviate from that so I have a hard time understanding why their American History one does.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

 

 

I'm glad you asked this on high school board. The AHL and WHL programs use a different textbook publisher.

MFW sells the BJU materials for less.

MFW is not just history...

 

don't overthink it at this stage. ((((hugs))))

 

-crystal

[coffeefreak]

I'm glad you asked this on high school board. The AHL and WHL programs use a different textbook publisher.

MFW sells the BJU materials for less.

MFW is not just history...

 

don't overthink it at this stage. ((((hugs))))

 

-crystal

 

Crystal,

I almost PM'd you this morning to ask you to respond. Thanks for helping!

:grouphug:

Dorinda

[cbollin]

Crystal,

I almost PM'd you this morning to ask you to respond. Thanks for helping!

:grouphug:

Dorinda

 

I don't always look on the logic board. too much for my brain....

 

brain

brr aii nnnns

 

zombie need brain! but they realized mine is not worth it

 

:lol:

 

anyway, looks like I misunderstood the pricing part and answered again on high school. in any case... I'll say that part here because the zombies didn't eat that part of my thoughts yet

 

it's like asking if it is worth it to do MFW1850MOD or just do SOTW volum 4. or close enough analogy.

 

i'm going for more fish oil now.

 

(((hugs)))

 

year at a time, you'll be fine.

-crystal

[RobinF]

I'm not sure that having a 9th grade in MFW 11th grade will be an ideal fit for the majority of students due to writing instruction differences and they haven't gone through the entire bible yet. MFW really isn't written for that kind of multi level at high school.

 

The year 3 and 4 high school levels are written in mind for 11th and 12th graders.

 

food for thought and worth checking it out in person.

 

-crystal

 

nm

[cbollin]

nm

 

ok. I'll just assume I offended you and apologize.....

 

you can do whatever you want. just saying you might change your path as the time gets closer and you see the products in person...... or it might work out exactly as you plan.

 

sorry.

[RobinF]

ok. I'll just assume I offended you and apologize.....

 

you can do whatever you want. just saying you might change your path as the time gets closer and you see the products in person...... or it might work out exactly as you plan.

 

sorry.

 

Actually I was confused by what you meant by a student would have gone through the entire Bible, which made no sense to me. By 9th grade my current 4th grader will have been through the Bible both reading and studying at least 3 times at the current rate we are going. I then figured out that you meant with MFW. After homeschooling 6 years I can say that I have never picked up a curriculum and used it exactly as written which included MFW 2x's through. So I am not concerned with the Bible aspect of the curriculum as much. We don't depend upon our time "in school" to do Bible. For our family that is extra and done sometimes with but usually in addition to what we are doing during school times.

 

Part of my post was a tad snarky to me and that was why I deleted it. I understand and realize that we may change our mind down the road. But my point was that if the set schedule doesn't work for you then maybe consider tweaking it. Maybe it will work a better way for a particular family. For us at least right now there is no way I would do CTG and then Ancient back to back. But I am perfectly ok with taking what is good and making it work for our family. I realize that not everyone is ok with that it was just a suggestion for a way of thinking outside the box.

[cbollin]

Actually I was confused by what you meant by a student would have gone through the entire Bible, which made no sense to me. By 9th grade my current 4th grader will have been through the Bible both reading and studying at least 3 times at the current rate we are going. I then figured out that you meant with MFW.

 

yes, I meant in terms of "at the rhetoric level" for all chapters in chronological order. (whether with MFW, or TOG, or make own units or family reading) and also with the English and essays and all of that. I just mean it in academic terms at rhetoric level that MFW builds on skills each year so they are saying that it's not ideal for 9th grader to do year 2, 3, or 4.

 

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify that. I"m sorry it was poorly written. I know we're all doing Bible all along. I just meant at rhetoric level and "worldview" training in terms of that writing and studying kind of stuff.

 

I'm going back to hiding now. been a rough day for me.

 

-crystal

[cbollin]

doubled posted.... oops...

 

in any case, don't worry if part of it sounded snarky, I never saw the original. you're good :)

Edited February 12, 2011 by cbollin
double post

[RobinF]

Sorry it's been a rough day, didn't mean to add to it. Just posted before I actually thought about it. I know that we are different that a lot of homeschooler in that we are Christians but I don't necessarily do Bible during school. Not sure how to explain it but even though I enjoy that in our curriculum usually the Bible portion is tweaked to fit our family.

[coffeefreak]

Sorry it's been a rough day, didn't mean to add to it. Just posted before I actually thought about it. I know that we are different that a lot of homeschooler in that we are Christians but I don't necessarily do Bible during school. Not sure how to explain it but even though I enjoy that in our curriculum usually the Bible portion is tweaked to fit our family.

 

Robin,

I appreciated your thoughts. We don't use MFW as written either and that may be why I have a hard time understanding the High School curriculum. Truth be told, we truly only use it for Bible and History. I tried to use the science, but it doesn't work for us. We are using RS4K and we love it! I was trying to integrate the MFW books, but it was just too much! We also don't care for any of the LA suggestions, and we use Saxon Math!:lol:

 

And Crystal, that's where your explanations started to make sense. BECAUSE I view it as a history curriculum, of course I'm missing the big picture when it comes to their High School Choices.

 

WHEW!!!! What a day of realizations and awakenings!:lol:

 

Time for bed.

Dorinda

[coffeefreak]

I don't always look on the logic board. too much for my brain....

 

brain

brr aii nnnns

 

zombie need brain! but they realized mine is not worth it

 

:lol:

 

anyway, looks like I misunderstood the pricing part and answered again on high school. in any case... I'll say that part here because the zombies didn't eat that part of my thoughts yet

 

it's like asking if it is worth it to do MFW1850MOD or just do SOTW volum 4. or close enough analogy.

 

i'm going for more fish oil now.

 

(((hugs)))

 

year at a time, you'll be fine.

-crystal

 

But before I go to bed, I had to say

 

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

Do you play Plants v/s Zombies? This killed me because we are totally ADDICTED!!!!

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[RobinF]

Robin,

I appreciated your thoughts. We don't use MFW as written either and that may be why I have a hard time understanding the High School curriculum. Truth be told, we truly only use it for Bible and History. I tried to use the science, but it doesn't work for us. We are using RS4K and we love it! I was trying to integrate the MFW books, but it was just too much! We also don't care for any of the LA suggestions, and we use Saxon Math!:lol:

 

And Crystal, that's where your explanations started to make sense. BECAUSE I view it as a history curriculum, of course I'm missing the big picture when it comes to their High School Choices.

 

WHEW!!!! What a day of realizations and awakenings!:lol:

 

Time for bed.

Dorinda

 

Well I am going back to it again this year for the 3rd time. They say 3rd times a charm so we will see. I use MUS for math and we do our own language arts because I really don't like their selections. So we are going to use the History/Science and Bible. We used some of their reading suggestions this year with TOG. I have just come to the conclusion that I am always going to rewrite curriculum to fit my own needs. I admire people who can pick up a curriculum and use it as it is written, it just has never happened here. :tongue_smilie: I will have to do some research as we get closer to hs because if MFW isn't compatible then we will have to find another way to go. Not going to worry about that now since it is too far down the road.

[mazakaal]

Have you considered doing MFW for high school but doing it out of order? I am considering this for my 2nd and 3rd. My oldest will cycle through MFW perfectly. But the others will be at different places in the cycle. So what I am considering for him is 7th ECC, 8th RTR (while his brother is doing high school world history), 9th hs US, 10th hs US, 11th Ancients, 12 World..

 

I had thought of doing this with my ds, but I spoke to a rep. at MFW and he advised against it. He said that it's really not designed for use with a 9th grader and highly recommended that I do MFW high school courses in order even if it means doing ancients in 8th and then ancients again in 9th. We're doing ancients in 7th and then middle ages in 8th, so it won't be the end of the world to do ancients again in 9th, though I would have prefered continuing on chronologically through h.s.

[RobinF]

I had thought of doing this with my ds, but I spoke to a rep. at MFW and he advised against it. He said that it's really not designed for use with a 9th grader and highly recommended that I do MFW high school courses in order even if it means doing ancients in 8th and then ancients again in 9th. We're doing ancients in 7th and then middle ages in 8th, so it won't be the end of the world to do ancients again in 9th, though I would have prefered continuing on chronologically through h.s.

 

The more I have read about this over the weekend I can see why they recommend this. That is why this weekend I decided to stay with TOG and make it fit my budget. There were several reasons I was drawn back to MFW but I think overall TOG is a better fit for our family. I like knowing that my kids can study the same time period at the same time. So TOG will work better for us in the long run. I actually had most of the extra items I needed for MFW put in my cart at Rainbow Resource and had to shift things around to buy TOG materials and extras.