Looking for LA guidance - starting over and breaking it down into separate parts

[pgr]

After thinking I had it all planned out for next year, I realized (with much critical help from the boards here...) that I'm casting a net much, much too widely.

 

I was looking for an all in one LA program, and wanted to supplement with separate resources as well. Don't think that's going to work, at least not without straining student, teacher and budget! I'm starting over, and starting with goals this time...

 

This is where I need the guidance.

 

Grammar: I love the idea of FLL, but I absolutely *hate* that it's scripted (running and ducking - I know this is something many love). Would MCT be a "replacement" as far as scope goes? We have mandatory standardized testing in English and Math.

 

Writing: is WWE also scripted? I was able to flip through FLL at B&N a while ago, but I can't look at (nor can I find samples for) WWE. Does Classical Writing do a comparable job as far as scope goes? What about CQLA?

 

Spelling: is there a program that incorporates spelling well without requiring a separate program? (Other than doing a ton of reading, which obviously will work in that direction).

 

Finally, is there any opinion about HOD "Drawn into the Heart of Reading"? Does that go against classical education, i.e is it too much analysis at a young age?

 

Thank you!

[HappyCamper]

:bigear:

[pgr]

Anyone?...

:confused1:

[Kfamily]

Well, I'm probably not much help because I don't use many of the books you mentioned, but I can share what I do know...

 

I have FLL and I too did not care for it. I used it with my older dd but adapted it as we went. It felt a little too scripted for me too. It is not a good fit for my younger dd at all.

 

 

I have and use Classical Writing, although I started with Homer since my older dd was an older student. We love it. I'll link the site with their scope and sequences for you below. They are a nice way to see what is included.

 

http://www.classicalwriting.com/ScopeSequence.htm

 

Hope this helps a little...:001_smile:

[Kuovonne]

After thinking I had it all planned out for next year, I realized (with much critical help from the boards here...) that I'm casting a net much, much too widely.

 

I was looking for an all in one LA program, and wanted to supplement with separate resources as well. Don't think that's going to work, at least not without straining student, teacher and budget! I'm starting over, and starting with goals this time...

 

This is where I need the guidance.

 

Grammar: I love the idea of FLL, but I absolutely *hate* that it's scripted (running and ducking - I know this is something many love). Would MCT be a "replacement" as far as scope goes? We have mandatory standardized testing in English and Math.

 

Writing: is WWE also scripted? I was able to flip through FLL at B&N a while ago, but I can't look at (nor can I find samples for) WWE. Does Classical Writing do a comparable job as far as scope goes? What about CQLA?

 

Spelling: is there a program that incorporates spelling well without requiring a separate program? (Other than doing a ton of reading, which obviously will work in that direction).

 

Finally, is there any opinion about HOD "Drawn into the Heart of Reading"? Does that go against classical education, i.e is it too much analysis at a young age?

 

Thank you!

 

How old is your child?

 

For grammar, many people who use MCT use it as their only grammar program.

 

WWE is completely laid out if you get the workbooks, but it isn't scripted the same way that FFL is. If you just get the hardback book and find your own passages, it isn't scripted at all.

 

For spelling, what works for one kid doesn't necessarily work for another. If your student struggles with spelling, you'd want a spelling program taylored to how your student thinks. If your child is a natural speller, it probably doesn't matter what spelling program you use.

[Veritaserum]

WWE and FLL are both scripted. I like MCT, but I am switching next year.

 

Have you looked at Phonics Road? It's not scripted. You watch the DVD and then teach your child. PR replaces reading, spelling, handwriting, dictation, outlining, and grammar. Upper levels also include vocabulary and (eventually) Latin.

 

For us it replaces all the language arts programs we've used over the years: FLL, ETC, WWE, AAS, VIE, and MCT. Phonics Road saves me soooo much time. It's thorough and effective. :)

 

We use IEW for writing.

[Lovedtodeath]

WWE and FLL are both scripted. I like MCT, but I am switching next year.

 

Have you looked at Phonics Road? It's not scripted. You watch the DVD and then teach your child. PR replaces reading, spelling, handwriting, dictation, outlining, and grammar. Upper levels also include vocabulary and (eventually) Latin.

 

For us it replaces all the language arts programs we've used over the years: FLL, ETC, WWE, AAS, VIE, and MCT. Phonics Road saves me soooo much time. It's thorough and effective. :)

 

We use IEW for writing.

:iagree:YAY Phonics Road! I have found that I can skip the DVD about half of the time, and I can fast-forward a great deal too. ;)

[Dinsfamily]

I don't like scripted programs at all and have been happy with FLL so far. I just skip the script and present the lesson in my own way. It's easy and takes us about 10-15 mins to do 2 lessons. I'm really happy with the way it's going through the parts of speech systematically.

 

We also use WWE but the text and not the workbook. The text explains the method and I come up with my own narration/copywork selections. It's working out really well. It's a little more work but I didn't want to use snippets of books we weren't reading.

 

As for spelling/phonics, we use SWR. It's great for me because I get the strong foundation I want and it's completely customizable for my dc. So far, I have an advanced reader and a very advanced reader so the flexibility is pretty important (plus one is a visual learner and the other is auditory). It does require a lot from the teacher initially but now that I've been using it for a couple of years, it's open-and-go. It includes grammar and writing for K-2 but I like the FLL/WWE combo better and just substitute.

 

We use Sonlight's readers for reading. SWR has guidelines for reading which we follow and the SL readers fill the space perfectly.

 

Because of the gap between my boys' reading and writing levels, an all-in-one program just won't work. I am really happy with how all of our programs are going and not switching anytime soon. I do have some tough decisions to make around 3rd grade for grammar and writing but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[johnandtinagilbert]

What about an AIO won't work for you?

 

If you go the PR route, you can go at a varied pace in the first 2 levels. Once you hit level 3, you should keep grammar and lit. on the same pace, but you could still do spelling at your own speed.

 

I know you mentioned budget, but remember you are paying only once the big bucks. For each child to come, you only need replace student materials at $70. There have even been those who create their own notebooks and save the student materials expense entirely.

[boscopup]

I seem to recall this was for a first grader? MCT is written for gifted 3rd graders. I think I would wait on that. It also assumes some prior grammar instruction, I believe.

 

There are samples of WWE both on the PHP website and Amazon. There really isn't much "script" to it.

 

FLL is definitely scripted, but here is the thing about scripts - you don't have to use them! :) You can just look ahead at what is being taught, and put it in your own words. That's what you would do without a script, right?

 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Classical Writing is for students a bit older than first grade... 3rd maybe? It says on their website. HOD is also meant for third grader, I believe, and you really don't need literary analysis until MUCH later than first grade, even if you have a strong reader.

[pgr]

Thank you for all the replies!

 

Our DD will be starting first grade in the fall, however, I am looking at all our options spanning all the early elementary/grammar years. That doesn't mean I plan to implement it all in first grade. I'd love to avoid jumping from curriculum to curriculum as the years pass, though it's understandable that that's not always avoidable.

 

She is an advanced reader, but I understand that that does not at all mean that she's ready for more complex *thought* processes as well. (That was my main hesitation about the HOD lit analysis, even though there is a package labeled for the early elementary years).

 

I would love to use an AIO package, I just can't seem to find one that would be a good (albeit theoretical) fit for our family. I may just have to pick something to start with and go from there, reevaluating as we go forward.

 

Thank you!

 

:D

[rachel_rfwp]

I seem to recall this was for a first grader? MCT is written for gifted 3rd graders. I think I would wait on that. It also assumes some prior grammar instruction, I believe.

 

There are samples of WWE both on the PHP website and Amazon. There really isn't much "script" to it.

 

FLL is definitely scripted, but here is the thing about scripts - you don't have to use them! :) You can just look ahead at what is being taught, and put it in your own words. That's what you would do without a script, right?

 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Classical Writing is for students a bit older than first grade... 3rd maybe? It says on their website. HOD is also meant for third grader, I believe, and you really don't need literary analysis until MUCH later than first grade, even if you have a strong reader.

Hi, MCT is a whole LA curriculum which starts with the Island series, which was indeed originally aimed at gifted 3rd graders, but this is only Level One. There is Grammar, Vocabulary, Writing and Poetics for another 5 Levels, all in increasing depth, with Practice Books along the way.

[Lovedtodeath]

Our DD will be starting first grade in the fall, however, I am looking at all our options spanning all the early elementary/grammar years. That doesn't mean I plan to implement it all in first grade. I'd love to avoid jumping from curriculum to curriculum as the years pass, though it's understandable that that's not always avoidable.

Then I recommend Phonics Road even more, because you can start it from the very beginning.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Then I recommend Phonics Road even more, because you can start it from the very beginning.

Ditto :)

[Veritaserum]

Then I recommend Phonics Road even more, because you can start it from the very beginning.

 

And you can use it through high school (Latin Road) or switch to something else after PR4. :)

 

(Gosh, we sound like dealers or something. "You know you want it." :tongue_smilie:)

[Guest]

FLL may be scripted but mine remember every bit we covered with it. Scripted is not bad.

[AnointedHsMom]

Drawn into the Heart of Reading is recommended for ages 7 to 14 or 2nd to 8th grade. I would not start DITHOR before 2nd grade. But I do not feel it's too much analysis if you are using the correct level.

 

Hope that helps.

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

(Gosh, we sound like dealers or something. "You know you want it." :tongue_smilie:)

:lol::biggrinjester::rofl::smilielol5:

[susankenny]

We didn't like FLL too much either. R&S English 2 could be used gently with an advanced 1st grader, especially if it was all completed orally. I wouldn't do that *personally*, but I know many others do it with success. WWE is scripted if you buy the workbook, but if you but the hard book, it is completely unscripted, as you will choose your own passages and have your daughter write across the curriculum.

 

Another idea that's totally free & perfect for 1st grade is the Scott Foresman curriculum. It covers grammar & writing. I use it with my 7 year old. http://www.sfreading.com/resources/ghb.html

 

 

Susan

[sassenach]

WWE and FLL are both scripted. I like MCT, but I am switching next year.

 

Have you looked at Phonics Road? It's not scripted. You watch the DVD and then teach your child. PR replaces reading, spelling, handwriting, dictation, outlining, and grammar. Upper levels also include vocabulary and (eventually) Latin.

 

For us it replaces all the language arts programs we've used over the years: FLL, ETC, WWE, AAS, VIE, and MCT. Phonics Road saves me soooo much time. It's thorough and effective. :)

 

We use IEW for writing.

 

:iagree: I made this same change this year. I tossed fll, etc, swo, and phonics pathways.

[AngelBee]

I know you mentioned budget, but remember you are paying only once the big bucks. For each child to come, you only need replace student materials at $70. There have even been those who create their own notebooks and save the student materials expense entirely.

This is what we are doing. :)

[boscopup]

R&S English 2 could be used gently with an advanced 1st grader, especially if it was all completed orally.

 

We're doing that this year. It's been fine so far. Really, quite easy. We do it completely orally. Just finished unit 1.

 

Note that it is VERY Christian, like sometimes you have to answer questions relating to Bible stories. My son knows them all (we are Christians), but if the OP was looking at this, she needs to be aware of that. ;)

 

We're going to try FLL2 next year, as I think it looks more enjoyable than R&S. My son is fine with R&S. I'm the one that's bored. :tongue_smilie:FLL looks like it will have more poetry and such in it, which I'm horrible about getting to myself. I need someone to force me into it. :glare:

[pgr]

OK, I can't get my message to "multi-quote", but all you PR followers really must be pushing something....:blink: (what? There's no "suspicious" smiley...)

:lol:

 

OK, OK, I'll go look at it!

 

In all seriousness, Is PR DVD based or am I misunderstanding something?

 

Boscopup - I'll also look at R&S - thank you for that thought; we're also Christian, but good to know what the curriculum is all about ahead of time!

 

:grouphug: to you all!

Edited February 11, 2011 by pgr

[johnandtinagilbert]

OK, I can't get my message to "multi-quote", but all you PR followers really must be pushing something....:blink: (what? There's no "suspicious" smiley...)

:lol:

 

OK, OK, I'll go look at it!

 

In all seriousness, Is PR DVD based or am I misunderstanding something?

 

Boscopup - I'll also look at R&S - thank you for that thought; we're also Christian, but good to know what the curriculum is all about ahead of time!

 

:grouphug: to you all!

:D The teaching instruction is via DVD. In other words, Mrs. Beers shows you how to teach the method on the DVDs. The actual lesson plans are on paper with space for you to take notes and make the connections between paper and DVD.

[Veritaserum]

:D The teaching instruction is via DVD. In other words, Mrs. Beers shows you how to teach the method on the DVDs. The actual lesson plans are on paper with space for you to take notes and make the connections between paper and DVD.

 

You watch the DVD, not your student. :)

[johnandtinagilbert]

You watch the DVD, not your student. :)

That is the intent, but I know a large handful of people that actually have their dc watch it :)

[mothergooseof4]

Another PR junkie here.

 

I have used a vast array of stuff including CLE, AAS, SWR, and more. Last year was CLE, but took ds WAY TOO LONG. So I began this year using all of the suggestions in HOD CTC:WWTB, R&S, DITHOR plus adding in AAS since my ds still needed formal spelling. I switched to PR in October and am loving it. I replaced all of those programs with this one and it takes soooooooo much less time per day. I accelerated him through level 1 doing a week per day and it still took less time than using that other stuff as scheduled in HOD. Now he is in level two and we are accelerating at 2 PR weeks per calendar week. LA is quick and painless and he is learning, which shows me the gaps other programs left. Plus, it is so easy for me to have one program for all LA.

 

My younger two are using level 1. I was accelerating my 8yo through it, but after discussing him with Mrs. Beers, I stopped accelerating and am putting he and his sister together for LA. It is going great and they are both learning.

 

ETA: Ds and I dreaded DITHOR. With PR, he still does not look forward to it, but doesn't hate it like DITHOR. But, you have to consider that he dislikes all school. I like the lit study in PR because I have answers and know what they are asking for. Most of the time with DITHOR, when ds said he didn't know what info to put on his student page, I had no idea either because I had not read the book.

Edited February 12, 2011 by mothergooseofthree

[Lovedtodeath]

Phonics Road takes about a half an hour to watch the DVD for the week. About an hour to an hour and a half to watch it for the month. It is very helpful to watch it at times, because it reminds me of the rule tunes, etc. and teaching becomes second nature. At other times, I don't want to watch it so I will go a couple of weeks on my own and I might need to check on the explanation of a word or a grammar definition, or at times I am not sure if we are supposed to use dictation to fill in the lit pages or if DD is to think of it on her own... just a quick 3 minute check. HTH explain the DVD thing.

 

Phonics Road seems scary when you first look at it, but for us it is really easier to use and takes less time than what we were doing before.

Drawn into the Heart of Reading is recommended for ages 7 to 14 or 2nd to 8th grade. I would not start DITHOR before 2nd grade. But I do not feel it's too much analysis if you are using the correct level.

 

Hope that helps.

My understanding of DITHOR is that there is quite a bit of focus on character traits...

 

Another idea that's totally free & perfect for 1st grade is the Scott Foresman curriculum. It covers grammar & writing. I use it with my 7 year old. http://www.sfreading.com/resources/ghb.html

 

 

Susan

I really liked this as a supplement to FLL when we were doing it in first grade. Edited February 12, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[AngelBee]

That is the intent, but I know a large handful of people that actually have their dc watch it :)

I actually have ds11 and dd9 watching it with me for now. :001_huh:

[LoveBaby]

WWE and FLL are both scripted. I like MCT, but I am switching next year.

 

Have you looked at Phonics Road? It's not scripted. You watch the DVD and then teach your child. PR replaces reading, spelling, handwriting, dictation, outlining, and grammar. Upper levels also include vocabulary and (eventually) Latin.

 

For us it replaces all the language arts programs we've used over the years: FLL, ETC, WWE, AAS, VIE, and MCT. Phonics Road saves me soooo much time. It's thorough and effective. :)

 

We use IEW for writing.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

I think I'll add IEW in the middle school years for writing when we use Latin Road, but for the younger years, I'm not sure even that would be necessary at all.