x-post: TOG users (K-12): how much of this has been a problem for you?

[Annabel Lee]

I keep eyeballing TOG, but from a distance. Since I'll eventually need to decide on something for history and literature for next year, I'm looking at it again. There are specific reasons (i.e., things I've merely read/heard) I've kept TOG at arm's length, and I'm hoping you can address them as true or untrue If it's not so black-and-white, please elaborate & tell how you solved the issue in your homeschool:

 

1. Map Aids - I've heard that the answers aren't always easy to figure out, or that the answer key isn't helpful, or that resources that are supposed to match up re: the maps just don't and in that case users have been told to just look at the answer key.

 

2. Answers to some of the questions (D or R level) not being easy to find, but scattered throughout many books.

 

3. Hard to use, hard to plan, too many books, too time consuming (for teacher and for student).

 

Thanks for the help! (again, always)

[Leanna Tomlinson]

1. Map Aids - I've heard that the answers aren't always easy to figure out, or that the answer key isn't helpful, or that resources that are supposed to match up re: the maps just don't and in that case users have been told to just look at the answer key.Some answers are more difficult to find than others. We own an excellent historical atlas, and most answers can be found in there, but finding the answers can be time consuming. For my dc, we approach mapwork in two ways. With the younger ones, we sit down with the atlas and find what we can in about 15 minutes. Any answers not obtained in that time frame we copy from the teacher's map. This gives them time with the atlas, but does not make the assignment take more than 30 minutes a week. My older ds googles the terms and finds his answers.

 

2. Answers to some of the questions (D or R level) not being easy to find, but scattered throughout many books.This is true, but is also a benefit. Many of us were taught using textbooks and were used to regurgitating answers from those books. BUT - we knew the answer had to be in that book because the end of chapter questions MUST correlate to the text. Finding answers from a textbook can many times become a hunt and find process and not one of analytical thinking. Deriving answers from several sources requires the student to think and analyze. For example, our first year with TOG one of my co-op students and her parent called me in frustration. The question was "Was Egypt or Sumer more advanced in regards to government, agriculture, etc...?" The students had read about Egypt in one book and Sumer in another. This student and Mom had pored over the books looking for the paragraph that contained the answer. The answer needed to be analyzed by the student. The student had all the facts needed to make a conclusion, she was just not used to doing this. This is part of Rhetoric. Regurgitating info from a textbook is more of a grammar level skill. So, are the answers always easy to find? No! But the questions is ...Do you want them to be easy? TOG has become so much more than history for us. It's analyzing, synthesizing, critical thinking, and worldview forming. The kids read books of different styles and different view points. Some books are easy, some are difficult. In the end, the skills my students have gained have been priceless.

 

3. Hard to use, hard to plan, too many books, too time consuming (for teacher and for student).Personally, TOG is the easiest program to plan that I have ever used. It takes me about 2 hours to select and order the books each unit. I don't plan the hands-on activities, because we participate in a co-op and that is done for me by another mom. (The trade-off is that I get to grade 17 students' writing assignments.) TOG can be time consuming, but Rhetoric level classes should be. I find that many of our co-op students, when they come to us, take much longer to accomplish their work than the students who have been with us for several years. Again, I think the students are learning skills other than just history or literature. They are learning how to synthesize, analyze, and prioritize. Once they learn those skills, TOG does not take too much time. I compare the hours my ds spends on TOG history and lit. to the hours I spent on AP classes in high school. The time requirements are similar.

 

Thanks for the help! (again, always)

 

Answers above in blue

[Renaissance Mom]

This is our fifth year of TOG. The map labels are not always easy to find but the are usually easy to find. As pp said, the point is to make a good effort, sometimes consulting several different resources (the history books assigned that week as well as a historical atlas). That's real life. It's a discipline to be taught.

 

The pp gave an excellent answer to your question about answering accountability and thinking questions. It is a benefit to have it the way it is.

 

It may be "hard" for the first several weeks or so (in my case, it took a couple of months -- but I also started with the old classic version which was somewhat less newbie-friendly). But once you learn the flow of how things work and your children are gradually taught how to approach it, it's not time consuming at all. I print off maps, lit worksheets, and weekly assignments over the summer and pop them into week-coded folders. I do the daily assignment scheduling for my younger two for the next week on Friday; I hand the weekly assignment list to my D level dd on Friday and she schedules the next week out for herself in her planner. I glance at the suggested hands on activities at the beginning of a unit and, with input from my kids, pick out a couple for the unit and make sure we have materials on hand. I read the teacher notes and discussion guides over the weekend and am superbly prepared for the week. I don't find the planning, organizing, teaching, or scheduling at all a burden.

 

The only way to really know if it is a fit for you and your family is to either try one of the 3-week samples or borrow/buy a unit and try it. It may not suit every family. But those families for which it is a fit, it is a huge blessing!

[choirfarm]

I gave you an answer on the high school board

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

answered on K-8 board