Murphy101 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 We only had to tell our school about her physical/dental and vision if she took a sport. It is part of the sports physical paperwork but we have the option of her doing just the basic physical with the school nurse or having our doctor fill out a form. We actually just took her to CVS's Minute Clinic and had them fill out the form. Yes, for sports it makes sense. I still don't understand how a senior could end up with so few classes unless they were willing to pay a fee. Doesn't the state have minimum requirements that the schools have to offer? For example, NJ requires: 4 full years of English, 1 year of World History, 2 years of US History, 3 years of Math, 3 years of Science, 1 year Foreign Language, 1 year Fine or Performing arts, 1 year Practical arts, gym for 3/4 of each year enrolled, health/drivers ed for 1/4 of each year enrolled, 3 years worth of electives. Theoretically, kids could load up during early years and wind up with a very light senior year. Some do since they can leave campus once their classes are done to work. But with one study hall and one lunch period during the earlier years (which are needed since they will be used once or twice a week for labs), it's not that easy to wind up with more than 3 or 4 free periods (out of 8) by senior year. My oldest just did her senior year schedule last week. She has a "light" schedule in that she will have 3 "free" periods (one of which she loses for Anat & Physiology lab). Is New York hurting so bad that the minimum required is really that minimal? Indeed that was my thought too. If the kid had already had alg II, do they really refuse to let them have the next logical math course unless they pay extra for it? Same goes for other subjects. It wasn't unusual for seniors to have two open sessions their senior year, but no one ever had a more than that many open and nothing else for the day. That's ridiculous. At the least, they should graduate them early instead of wasting their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 I think only a basic education should be required for ANYONE. If the school is offering classes to some students in the same school and not others based solely on socioeconomic status, that is discrimination pure and simple. To my mind at least. Makes me feel better about home schooling high school at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 So dragon academy and any other who care to respond... What happens if you refuse? :glare: The silly district website won't allow me to copy and paste but the website states: "Failure to comply with the above requirements [re: medical/dental/ physical/vision screenings] will result in exclusion from school until requirements are met." I know from experience that during registration they have tables set up and if you cannot produce the required documents you are not allowed to progress through the process. There are medical fee waivers for those who qualify for the free lunch program so some families receive assistance. My DD's physical expired one day after registration and they were going to withhold her schedule until I could prove she had an updated physical. Luckily, her physician is also a friend so we were able to get it signed right away. Then the main office 'forgot' to forward the physical to the sports secretary and DD was pulled out of tennis practice for lack of a current physical. :glare: I mean the sports director walked to the tennis courts and told DD to leave practice. Completely embarrassed her in front of the coaches and the team. Crazy, I tell you. It took me all of ten minutes to track down that physical and correct the problem. Not one person in the office apologized for what happened but suggested that next time I should make a copy of the physical and give it to the sports office myself.:glare: Thank goodness this is DD's senior year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 I can see insisting on an updated physical for sports. I got the impression tho that it was for school in general. That's just stupid. It's not about cost. It's about family privacy and common sense. There is no reason to insist on that for general enrollment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 In risk of starting a whole new debate, all this extra money really adds up I see. What is the point of paying taxes?? I can kind of see paying for cheerleading uniforms, shoes for soccer that sort of thing. What about the lab fees, the special calculators, the PE uniform etc etc. I mean why can't they wear a t-shirt from home? Why does it have to be their t-shirt? It is just overwhelming. All the fundraisers are crazy too and kids only get the special party if they sell so much. That is not fair. Do they really expect a first grader to go door to door? They expect the parents to do it and if they can't then the kid feels left out. It is just not right. It really sucks to be honest. I found it crazy that my daughters school stated shorts can only be such and such lenghth and when I had to buy the stupid things for PE they are way above the requirements. I was thinking all right hypocrites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Last year my DD was in K and here were the extra costs: Supply list-about $50 (buying everything on sale-as a former teacher, I knew to stock up on supplies). Probably about the same as this year. I heard some parents complaining about spending more than $150 on the same list, so I'm guessing that they went to one store and didn't bother to comparison shop. There were a few very, very annoying items, like having to have Prang Watercolors, which were only available at a teaching supply store. Kindergarten Kit-$25 for plastic folders, t-shirts to paint, clipboards, and a couple of other things. Happi-Nappi-$25 purchased at school. I don't think they rested past the first month of school, but my DD still drags the thing out to flop on the floor in it, so I guess she's gotten SOME use out of what is essentially a small sleeping bag. Field trips-about $10 every 9 weeks Lunch-we packed, but I KNOW it cost more to pack lunch than to eat at home, if for no other reason than my DD is inconsistent with amounts. Some days, she'll eat a lot, some she will eat almost nothing-and she's small for her age and downright skinny, so as long as what she's eating is healthy, I'm not going to refuse her. At home, it's easy to serve a small meal and to allow her to have more if she wants it. At school, I needed to send enough food to cover her if she needed more. Snacks-when my DD was "Star of the week", that meant I got the joy of providing snack for all 24 kids every day for a week. I think that was about $50 at Costco. School parties/special events-making a feast for Thanksgiving. Valentine's Party. Christmas Party. Easter Party. End of the year Party... Fundraisers-Magazine sale, candy sale, monthly bake sales, school auction baskets. raffle tickets, valentine-grams. Pizza Night. Barnes and Noble Night. Book Fair. Skating night. Sub night. I swear there was at least one fund raiser going on all the time. Now, I do have to say that the money was used in ways that were obvious-the big project was redoing the school gym. The year before that it was re-paving the parking lot. And both needed done and done badly. This year, apparently the goal is to redo the playground, which can also use improving. But still.... Charities-I think there was at least one per grading period. Jump Rope for Heart. Math-A-Thon. Read-A-Thon. Angel tree.... Beginning of the year pictures, Grade level pictures, graduation pictures. $30 in "Graduation fees"-for KINDERGARTEN! I mean, did DD really need a cute little yellow gown and cap? I don't know that HSing this year has been cheaper, but we at least have a whole shelf of nice books to show for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 NY is hurting... the revenue that used to fund the state contribution to the school tax is down tremendously, while the price of having school is up. Diverse districts have to make hard choices. Security guard or calculus? Summer School or French IV? Half speed Spanish I (req'd) or Pre-Calc (elective)? From the news of what is happening in Memphis, these kinds of choices are going to play out around the nation in the future. Re: the physical. It's for public health. They want your immunization status. Sounds like there's some hard decisions for the average, middle income parents. That's very rough. Are the seniors at least allowed to leave early to go to a job or classes elsewhere even if they aren't officially dual-enrolled? We do have to turn in an immunization record but only the full record in kindergarten and then provide updates each age there's a required booster. I believe NJ only has a religious exemption and it's not easy to get (must be a religion recognized to be against immunizations). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 In our local district, any math over algebra 2 requires the payment of a hefty fee. There is no budget for band or choir....eliminated a LONG time ago in order to funnel money to the sports program for new uniforms, stadium updates, etc. It costs about $100.00 a month to be in music except the one freshman general music appreciation class which is offered for kids wanting to show some music on their transcript for college but not being able to afford band or choir. The band/choir teacher's salary is paid for through fundraising by the parents and a small grant. The expenses of these classes are paid through the fees. We've got a 20% unemployment rate in this county and so a lot of kids that wanted higher math and music can't afford it. Though I am a professional musician who actively supports music education, I do recognize that music is not basic and not necessary to becoming a successful citizen of the future. However, the restrictions in math based on economics really grinds my cheese. What really offends me is that not only has music (art too by the way) and math been cut and now is only provided to the "haves", but the sports budget is ridiculously HUGE. I know this sounds terrible but in the history of this school district, there has never, ever been a single kid who ever went "pro" on sports and only three in the last 50 years who have gotten a full scholarship to college based on their athletic prowess - I know these statistics because of an editorial in the local newspaper detailing the spending priorities of our school district. So, as far as bang for the buck goes, it's pretty much throwing money down a hole. It might be okay if the standards to play were high enough that it encouraged the reluctant learners who love sports to apply themselves in school in order to stay on the team. But, the official policy is that a D average is good enough for eligibility and the unofficial policy is that a very fast way to be disciplined by the superintendent and have negative things placed in your employment record, is to give a failing grade to anyone on a sports team! So, the kids can earn failing grades and then expect, because they went out for sports, to receive a whomping grade inflation to a D. Additionally, the administration requires the parents to purchase a $500.00 "graduation package" which consists of an unbelievably poorly made cap and gown, a presentation folder and diploma, 12 invitations, six tickets to graduation, and a fee to the photographer....NO for $500.00 you do not even get a photo! This just pays the "sitting fee". If the student cannot afford this (and there is no monetary assistance for this) then the student is not allowed to participate in graduation exercises. They leave school on the last day for seniors and a cheaply made office created diploma is mailed after commencement. In order to punish the kids for not paying for the package, they are not allowed to even buy a ticket to graduation in order to watch their friends graduate. If they choose not to purchase the package, they are ineligible for tickets. As near as I can tell, we are slowly heading back to a caste society. The middle class is shrinking and the gap between the bottom and the top is getting wider. I am just so thankful that I can homeschool. I spend only a fraction of what other parents spend to get my children a more thorough and rigorous education. Though dh is not in the upper income brackes nor nowhere close, just solidly in the middle of the pack, I feel as though my children live the life of the upper class because of the education they receive compared to their peers. I think that if we currently consider that a. literacy rates are embarassingly low and b. our definition of literacy is too low, then as this gap gets bigger and bigger, we are going to be astonished by just how low educationally, our culture will fall. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 The minimum req'ts for the diploma are the usual: 4 yrs English, 4 yrs social studies etc. Average, functioning students who don't fail anything end up with just the 2.5 required classes senior year It's not considered discrimination based on income to offer these dual enrollment classes. They are extras that are not required at all for a diploma and those whose income is considered poverty do not have to pay a dime should they wish to elect this option. NY is hurting... the revenue that used to fund the state contribution to the school tax is down tremendously, while the price of having school is up. Diverse districts have to make hard choices. Security guard or calculus? Summer School or French IV? Half speed Spanish I (req'd) or Pre-Calc (elective)? From the news of what is happening in Memphis, these kinds of choices are going to play out around the nation in the future. Re: the physical. It's for public health. They want your immunization status. See that doesn't sound so bad, tho I question what is deemed "college" level. That sounds basic to me and okay. And no, you don't need a physical to get immunization status. Graduate early with the Advanced Regents Diploma is possible if the planning was done before 8th grade was started or the parents can help the child find a summer course and transfer it in. I don't know that that is a wise option...K starts as 4 turning 5 here, so graduating early means college at 16 turning 17 before New Year's for some...so won't be able to drive to the college on their own. Why the heck can't they? Go get a license and go if that's the goal.:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 However, the restrictions in math based on economics really grinds my cheese. What really offends me is that not only has music (art too by the way) and math been cut and now is only provided to the "haves", but the sports budget is ridiculously HUGE. Yeah. I don't think sports should be part of schools. Additionally, the administration requires the parents to purchase a $500.00 "graduation package" which consists of an unbelievably poorly made cap and gown, a presentation folder and diploma, 12 invitations, six tickets to graduation, and a fee to the photographer....NO for $500.00 you do not even get a photo! This just pays the "sitting fee". If the student cannot afford this (and there is no monetary assistance for this) then the student is not allowed to participate in graduation exercises. They leave school on the last day for seniors and a cheaply made office created diploma is mailed after commencement. In order to punish the kids for not paying for the package, they are not allowed to even buy a ticket to graduation in order to watch their friends graduate. If they choose not to purchase the package, they are ineligible for tickets. See. I didn't care bout my graduation ceremony at all and I was financially independent at that point. I would have been just fine skipping it and having one heck of a party for $500.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 This was me. Some people are so scandalized that I've never actually walked in a graduation ceremony (neither high school or college), but for me it wasn't important. I graduated early from high school and I was living in a different city when I graduated from college by the time the ceremonies rolled around I was not going to interrupt my life to go sit in a convention center somewhere. Yes. I didn't go to my prom either. Went to dh's and was not all that impressed. Dh would have been glad to take me to mine, I just didn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Why the heck can't they? Go get a license and go if that's the goal.:001_huh: In NJ they can't drive on their own until 17 and then it is provisional (no driving past 11pm or before 5am) until they are 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 In NJ they can't drive on their own until 17 and then it is provisional (no driving past 11pm or before 5am) until they are 18. Crickey. Yet another reason to avoid the eastern coast. Y'all got some odd notions over there.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Crickey. Yet another reason to avoid the eastern coast. Y'all got some odd notions over there.;) With the population of NJ most driving is done in high traffic situations. It's very rare to drive any major road and not see at least numerous other cars, even at 3am. This was in response to so many teens getting killed driving. There are restrictions on number of non-related people allowed in the car during that time period as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyFourSons Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Just curious, those of you who mention clothes as an expense because your kids wear play clothes at home--what kind of clothes do kids wear to school in your area? A lot of public schools in our area have uniforms now, research shows it helps cut down on behavioral issues. Yet another reason why we homeschool. Not because I am against uniforms, but because many of the public schools here have some major behavioral issues, and we can't afford the private school tuition. When I was a teacher four years ago in WI, I think the state paid out about $2,000 per student to the public school in our area. I can't remeber the exact amount, but that is a pretty fair estimate. I know it was close to this because the public school in our small town was always upset when students switched to the private school I taught in, as it "decreased school revenue." Forget about the fact that they weren't paying to educate that student. But, when your veteran teachers are making six figure salaries, you need a lot of students to cover the paychecks. The tuition at our private school was actually less than that amount, I think it was about $1,200 a year. But we had very good outside support in terms of ongoing donations, and very successful fundraisers, and of course our salaries were much lower, so we could keep the tuition very low. We didn't need to lower tuition to up enrollment, we were at capacity because we were academically much more rigorous than the public school. But we kept it as low as we could and had various scholarships available as part of our mission to never turn a child away due to finances. The tuition where we live now is much, much higher than that, which is why we switched to homeschooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyFourSons Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Yes. I didn't go to my prom either. Went to dh's and was not all that impressed. Dh would have been glad to take me to mine, I just didn't care. This is way off topic, but I went to a private high school where attendance at prom was a mandatory graduation requirement. The Juniors were required to raise money to pay for the Senior prom each year, and so Prom was always completely free to attend, we didn't sell any tickets or anything. The Junior class also had to plan the whole affair. I was co-chairman of the Prom commitee for my class, and this was a huge undertaking. Since we were trying to cut costs so the event could be free, we had to assemble the decorations and set up everything ourselves, so the whole Junior class usually spent the night before prom blowing up balloons and setting up photo backdrops, etc. Most of the classes at my school started fundraising for prom (car washes, bake sales, etc.) in 7th grade in order to have enough money to pay for the whole thing. Most of that money went to pay the cost of the venue rental. Both Juniors and Seniors were required to attend the prom, and so you had to attend both your Junior and Senior year or you wouldn't graduate. The mandatory night started with a Prom Banquet, which was a formal banquet that was also paid for by the Junior class, and was also attended by the entire faculty (the prom committee was in charge of the seating arrangement, we were required to have one). Then there was a mandatory class photo at the venue the dance was held at, and then there was a Grand March that everyone was required to participate in. If you didn't have a date or escort for the Grand March, you could either ask a friend to escort you after they went through with their own date, or someone would be assigned to you. After the Grand March, the dance would begin and run until midnight. The mandatory attendance was fullfilled as soon as the dance started, so you could leave right after Grand March if you wanted to. Several people put up a stink about this policy every year, but nothing ever came of it. Most people I mention this to think this is crazy, and many don't believe me, but it is the truth. I think that it was meant to be a lesson on service, since the Juniors were performing this huge service for the Senior class. Since classes were small at our private school (between 60-120 kids usually), you basically had to make everybody go in order to have enough people at Prom to justify all the work and the huge cost. That is my theory, anyways, although the administration would never give the students any reasoning behind things like this other than "because we told you so." I personally found the policy to be slightly unfair, but I would have gone to Prom anyway, whether I really wanted to or not. I usually did things like that out of a sense of duty to tradition, a trait that my husband finds irrational :). One interesting outcome from this whole thing was that my Junior and Senior yearbooks both have full page, full color photos of my entire class in formal wear! :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'm glad that none of my ps experiences have mirrored anything like what you talk about here. I bought basic school supplies, and a few "extra" clothes. (I would *love* a school with uniforms, but I digress.) The PTA here does a few large fundraisers (a carnival for one.) They also sell smoothies in the courtyard on Fridays - my dc don't get them, but most kids do. My 17yo's graduation fee was $90 and includes the cap/gown and announcements. His school didn't charge extra fees for anything - not even for the enrichment activities on Friday (like Zumba:lol:.) Overall, I spend a LOT less with them in school than I did homeschooling. If they get into the schools they have applied for in our new location, they will get music/art/dance lessons at school, along with a whole slew of other things. What *is* missing is special ed services at the level I want for my 9yo. So, we'll have to spend time/money on those outside of school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommee & Baba Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I think that that our family spends WAY more than we would if our children were in public school. My children have NEVER been to public school but from the neighboring families nearby we hear about the costs and overall they are NOTHING like we pay a year for our families lifestyle choice to homeschool. Field Trips Presentable Clothing Gym Shoes Dress Shoes Lunch Money School Supplies Misc Fundraisers for an elementary child here in our area runs about $250/yr and that's if they are hitting school supply sales and are on reduced or free lunches and are purchasing the clothing on clearance or thrift. Our family spends about $850-$1,000/yr on homeschooling related expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyFourSons Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I looked this up out of curiosity: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_175.asp it shows the average cost of expenditure for public school students in the US from the 60's up until 2005. The average amount spent in the US overall in 2005 was $9,305 dollars per student. That is more than my college tuition for the entire year of 2003. It also shows averages broken down by state, so you can compare how much you spend homeschooling to how much the tax payers would pay to educate your child at a public school. Depending on where you live, this could make the amount you spend on homeschooling seem like a bargain, especially if the quality of education at your local public school is lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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