RhondaM. Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 R&S has worked fine for us, but since we'll have to change programs soon anyway, I think it might be better to switch right now for pre-algebra, than to wait for algebra to switch. So can a kid who has worked through R&S 4-6 safely go to BJU pre-Algebra? Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmsurbat Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I think it would depend greatly on the maturity of the child. For the record, I have had my children complete R&S 7 before moving onto BJU Pre-Algebra and have been happy with my decision. I will highlight *possible* areas of concern that I would think through before making a decision. 1. Lesson organization: BJU's text, while laid out in a daily lesson format (although by chapter and section (ie. 1.1, 1.2, 1.2, 2.1, 2.2), rather than simply numerically (1-170), is much more "busy looking" and not as organized in its presentation. R&S lessons all start at the top of a new page, have the explanatory information clearly set apart from examples, arrange organized problem sets by alphabetized section, and are printed in B&W. BJU's lessons can start anywhere on a page, have explanatory text and examples mixed together, arranges problems by difficulty by alphabetized section, and are printed with color and pictures galore. This makes BJU less self-teaching (or intuitive) for the young student. 2. Tone: BJU's Pre-Algebra text stresses mathematical terminology. In the very first lesson the following terms are used: numerical expression, algebraic expression, variable, evaluating expressions. In the second lesson, the student meets up with: property, equivalent expressions, commutative property of addition, associative property of addition, identity property of addition. For the problem exercises in the first lesson, the students are instructed for set A to "Evaluate each numerical/algebraic expression", for set B to "Evaluate for x=4, y=7, and z=8", for set C to "evaluate for a=68, b=25, c=54, and d=17. Contrast that with R&S instructions to the students for working the exercise sets: "Find the value of the letter in each number sentence. Be sure to include the letter in your answer, such as n=5" and "Read each problem, and study the number sentence that is written for it. Use the number sentence to find the solution. Include the letter n in your answer." (I purposely chose lessons 162 and 163 in Book 6 because those are the two (and only two) lessons in R&S 6 which introduce the specific idea of variables) 3. Course set-up: With R&S, the student did each day's lessons. If you followed the suggestion in the teacher's manual, they did either the evens or the odds of every section. The tests came at the end of every chapter and were assigned a lesson number. If you used the quizzes, the TMs told you exactly when to assign them. With BJU, the lesson contains more exercises than a child is supposed to do. The TMs outlines 3 courses of study. You will need to determine which course you want your child to follow: A (struggling), B (standard), or C (challenging). Each day's lesson is assigned a differing set of problems for each track. It is not true that section A problems are for the A track, B problems for the B track. Rather, it is like this using the challenging track: Set A: 1-10 evens, Set B: 12-18 evens, 19-25 all, Set C: 26-30 all. With BJU the tests are separate with a separate answer key (unlike R&S where the tests answers are in the TMs). These tests and quizzes are "optional" so you will have to decide when to assign them. (I had to make a special note for when to assign the BJU quizzes which in my opinion are necessary). It is easy enough to assign the chapter test at the end of the chapter! 4. Review With R&S, the review is built right into the program. With BJU, you must add in the review in some manner. The TMs highlights a small review that you can use, but you will need to print it out or go over orally. You can use the quizzes as well for review (each chapter has 2 or 3 quizzes which cover 2-3 sections). There is an extra problem book which I believe covers both enrichment and review (I haven't used it so I'm not sure). 5. Preparation of R&S for BJU R&S 1-6 excels at laying a firm arithmetical foundation. As you can see from the example I gave above, the BJU Pre-Algebra includes algebraic concepts from the first lesson. That is a potential stumbling block. One reason we switch after R&S 7 is that it has a whole chapter covering algebra readiness at the end--an excellent lead in to BJU's Pre-Algebra text. Of course, this can be overcome by going *very* slowly, using all the examples in the TMs to supplement the text lesson. Or you can invest in the first four books of the Key to Series. I *like* BJU's Pre-Algebra text very much and recommend it often. I've never attempted to use it after R&S 6, only after R&S 7, so I highlighted those areas that would have been a struggle for my children (and me--R&S is sooo wonderfully organized). HTH, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhondaM. Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Wow, Vicki! Thanks for such a detailed comparrison. This has been very helpful. I am SO not a math person and R&S has been good for us. It is gentle, yet gets the job done. I wish it went through Algebra. I know there are plans for this in the future, though I doubt it happens in time for us. Ok..new question: Does R&S 7 start teaching the correct vocabulary for math terms that BJU Pre-Alg. assumes a child should know? If not, I'm wondering if R&S 8 does. I'm now wondering if maybe I should either: a: skip to R&S 8 (to get more than a single chapter of an intro to pre-agebra concepts) or b: go to BJU 7 in order to get him used to the different format and vocabulary, thus preparing him for BJU Pre-Algebra. I'm just afraid that jumping straight from gentle R&S into Algebra (Lial's or BJU or Jacobs or whatever) might be hard on him (ME!). We'd actually rather be doing anything but math. Yet I so wanted him to be ready for Algebra by 8th. :sigh: Now that it is time to order I'm thinking that rushing to algebra is maybe not such a good idea. What to do, what to do.....:confused: Thanks again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 starts introducing algebra in grade 5. R&S doesn't intro. alg. until grade 7 and only in 1 chapter at the end of the book so there isn't much reinforcement of algebra throughout the yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmsurbat Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Wow, Vicki! Thanks for such a detailed comparrison. This has been very helpful. I am SO not a math person and R&S has been good for us. It is gentle, yet gets the job done. I wish it went through Algebra. I know there are plans for this in the future, though I doubt it happens in time for us. Ok..new question: Does R&S 7 start teaching the correct vocabulary for math terms that BJU Pre-Alg. assumes a child should know? If not, I'm wondering if R&S 8 does. I'm now wondering if maybe I should either: a: skip to R&S 8 (to get more than a single chapter of an intro to pre-agebra concepts) or b: go to BJU 7 in order to get him used to the different format and vocabulary, thus preparing him for BJU Pre-Algebra. I'm just afraid that jumping straight from gentle R&S into Algebra (Lial's or BJU or Jacobs or whatever) might be hard on him (ME!). We'd actually rather be doing anything but math. Yet I so wanted him to be ready for Algebra by 8th. :sigh: Now that it is time to order I'm thinking that rushing to algebra is maybe not such a good idea. What to do, what to do.....:confused: Thanks again, Rhonda, There really is no need to panic. Whether your son will be ready for Algebra by 8th grade is anybody's guess. I don't have R&S 8 (because we always switched to a true Pre-Algebra text afer R&S 7), but I looked through R&S 7's chapter on Introductory Algebra. Yes, it begins to introduce mathematical terms like equation, variable, algebraic expression, axioms, etc. My son who went through BJU Pre-Algebra last year did struggle *a bit* with all those commutative, associative, identity properties introduced at the beginning of the year. We solved that by having him make a chart which he could refer to when the terms came up (actually, I think just making the chart helped him cement the terms). He is sitting across from me so I asked him now about comparing R&S 7 and Pre-Algebra, and he thinks that BJU is just as easy to learn from and a bit more engaging because of the extras: the color, the mind-breakers (challenging problems that crop up once in a while,), and side bars on statistics, etc. He was 12, turning 13 when he did the BJU text last year. I dont know if R&S 8 introduces much more algebra; I do know it is at the end of the text just like in R&S 7. That is one thing I like about BJU's text: they start right out with variables and incorporate them into succeeding lessons. There is going to be a jump in difficulty no matter what you switch too; 6th grade ends the elementary series (for R&S and BJU and ABeka and most other publishers), and 7th grade starts the secondary. Have you looked at the samples on BJU's website? Perused through the TOC? Looked at an actual sample chapter? If not, I suggest that you do--I always find it helpful to see the actual pages. If you feel that your child will best be served by moving into a pre-Algebra text and are worried about lack of algebra readiness, you can always use the first four books of the Key to Algebra series. They do a great job of introducing beginning algebra concepts for a very reasonable price. Before I close, I do think the biggest factor is the *maturity* issue of the child--whatever knowledge *may* be missing can be learned, but the ability to deal with all the abstraction inherent in algebra cannot be. There is a good reason why so many textbook series are sequenced as 6th, 7th, Pre-Alg, Alg: many (not all) students need that extra year of maturity to really "get it." HTH, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhondaM. Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 Rhonda, I don't have R&S 8 (because we always switched to a true Pre-Algebra text afer R&S 7), but I looked through R&S 7's chapter on Introductory Algebra. Yes, it begins to introduce mathematical terms like equation, variable, algebraic expression, axioms, etc. This is good to know. My son who went through BJU Pre-Algebra last year did struggle *a bit* with all those commutative, associative, identity properties introduced at the beginning of the year. We solved that by having him make a chart which he could refer to when the terms came up (actually, I think just making the chart helped him cement the terms). Good idea. I'll use that one. He is sitting across from me so I asked him now about comparing R&S 7 and Pre-Algebra, and he thinks that BJU is just as easy to learn from and a bit more engaging because of the extras: the color, the mind-breakers (challenging problems that crop up once in a while,), and side bars on statistics, etc. He was 12, turning 13 when he did the BJU text last year. My ds will just be turning 12 this coming May. I dont know if R&S 8 introduces much more algebra; I do know it is at the end of the text just like in R&S 7. That is one thing I like about BJU's text: they start right out with variables and incorporate them into succeeding lessons.. This is exactly what I noticed too...(yes, I've looked at samples and the TOC of R&S and BJU) it is woven all through the book. This sounds like it would work better for us than being introduced at the end of the book. But now I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about starting him with it in 7th. I'm going to have to go to my local homeschool store and have a look at their books. I don't know if they sell new BJU materials, but I know they have used. I'll look at both the 7th and pre-Algebra of BJU as well as look at R&S..hopefully they will have the levels I need to look at. Thanks again for all your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 I haven't switched at that point. I have moved from R&S7 (skipped 6th) into TT pre-algebra and Lial's Basic College Math in 7th with no problems. This year, I moved one from R&S 6 (she didn't want to skip 6th) straight into TT pre-algebra. I haven't used BJU math, but I think you could make the change without too much trouble. I would suggest getting the 7th grade R&S book and working the last chapters that contain new material. Cover any geometry principles that may be new and the pre-algebra. Don't worry about doing the review sections. New vocabulary in BJU should be picked up very quickly. Just make sure that your dc understands the directions for each problem set before they start working. You may have to watch a bit more closely. That is going to happen with ANY change from publisher to publisher. At least, that has been my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhondaM. Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 Thanks Lolly. I really need to get a good look at these books. Hopefully this weekend that will happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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