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Substituting Human Odyssey in HO Level 2 Middle Ages


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My dd will be in 5th next year, and I am considering using History Odyssey Level 2 - Middle Ages for her, but after reviewing The Story of Mankind I don't think she is going to like it as much having come from SOTW 1 this past year. (We pulled her from PS last year and decided then to start her at the beginning in the history cycle).

 

Has anyone created a schedule showing how k12s Human Odyssey text could be integrated instead of The Story of Mankind?

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I'm still trying to decide whether to use K12 Human Odyssey with HO Ancients Level 2, or possibly continue on with our first trip through SOTW and possibly bring in either K12 Human Odyssey or the older Kingfisher Illustrated History of the World that SWB recommends for dd to begin outlining. We've enjoyed SOTW and I've read a bit of MOH alongside of it this year.. but they have only been doing short narrations.

 

I like the assignments in HO Level 2 and how everything is written out, so I'm having a hard time deciding. ;-)

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I'm still trying to decide whether to use K12 Human Odyssey with HO Ancients Level 2, or possibly continue on with our first trip through SOTW and possibly bring in either K12 Human Odyssey or the older Kingfisher Illustrated History of the World that SWB recommends for dd to begin outlining. We've enjoyed SOTW and I've read a bit of MOH alongside of it this year.. but they have only been doing short narrations.

 

I like the assignments in HO Level 2 and how everything is written out, so I'm having a hard time deciding. ;-)

 

If it helps you decide, Human Odyssey vol 1 doesn't cover all the Middle Ages material, you would need Human Odyssey vol 2 as well. Vol 1 covers Ancients and 1/2 of Middle Ages.

 

I have a schedule lining up Human Odyssey vol 1 with History Odyssey Level 2 Middle Ages. I'd be happy to email it to you if you want it, just pm me your address:). But, be aware it's only for Human Odyssey vol 1 so a lot of the middle ages lessons don't have Human Odyssey pages listed because Human Odyssey splits up their time periods a little differently.

Edited by Jen+4dc
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Capt. Uhura... I noticed in another post that you had also looked through the Student & Teacher guides specifically to do with K12s Human Odyssey. Would you say that you are preferring the History Odyssey Level 2 work over the student pages of K12, or are you integrating them both about equally?

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So far, we've done everything in HO and some, maybe a bit more than half of what was in K12HO student pages. Some was done orally. We don't do the definitions in the student pages. HO so far has been listing facts read, writing 1-2 sentence summaries etc. The K12Human Odyssey asks for more thought and discussion. For example, there are several pages on Gilgamesh and discussing what a hero is and citing examples that portray Gilgamesh as a hero as well as the character traits that were important to Sumerians as evidenced in the epic. Discussions on defining civilization and how one develops...difference between a city-state and empire. There is a lot there. It's hard for me to not do everything. I"m a bit anal about that so it's been hard to decide - Ok that's not worth doing. For me to continue doing this I will need to sit down, and write on the HO pages, the page numbers I want DS to complete in the K12HO student pages. IT is definitely making us go more slowly as there was a lot more on Sumer in K12 than in HO but my boys have really enjoyed it so I have to let go of that idea of covering X amount of material and just go with the flow.......:lol:

 

Well, I guess I know what I'll be doing tomorrow.....:lol:

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So, would you say that you are getting a deeper understanding from using the K12HO with student pages over using HO? I know that one could effectively use SWBs outlining suggestions in the WTM with the K12HO, but has there been value in adding the HO Level 2 guide as well over just using K12HO with student pages? My that was a big question... lol. I am trying to figure out if one has been more useful and interesting than the other, or if you have found a good balance with using them both.

 

As it stands, I am concerned I may not be able to find the student pages for K12HO..

 

And yes, I too will be planning and getting ready for the next week or so. ;-) This is my first year hs and literally I never knew how much effort would go into planning, let alone implementing. It's a joy to see them curious and learning so much, but it can wear a person out too! ;-) My husband has been building our house for two years now and I told him the art of building little brains was equal to that in my book!

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You're asking me the tough questions lol that I couldn't answer hence the mish-mash of HO and K12HO and student pages. Ok, here is where I got where I am. I wanted WTM history but wasn't sure I'd be diligent about have DS writing summaries, doing Map work, outlining, doing outside reading. I felt like I needed something to get me into the habit. I'm a habit person...once something becomes a habit, I'm fine....it's just getting to that habit. For example, I couldn't imagine exercising at 7-8am. But after just a few weeks, it seems so natural. :001_smile: But then someone told me about K12Ho and I got the student pages for about $5 w/ shipping and I was torn. Couldn't make a decision. I will make my final decision when we run out of Try It Before You By It. I don't know if I'd call HO interesting. K12HO is interesting and it is more thought-provoking than HO although I do think HO picks up in the thought-provokingness :D as you progress. For example, about midway in HO you begin to outline and write from the outline I believe. Although in K12HO Student pages, the text walks the student through writing an essay. I don't know, I could see us dropping HO and going WTM history and doing K12HO Student pages.

 

Well, gee, I guess I didn't really answer your question. :lol:

 

OK tomorrow I'll read through HO again.....read WTM2009 Logic stage history....and see where my thoughts are. We've been on an HO hiatus since Christmas getting through K12HO chapters on Sumer. It's taking longer than anticipated since my 2nd grader who is doing SOTW Ancients wanted to sit in therefore I need to read it out-loud which takes longer than my 5th grader reading it to himself. Plus, we stop and ask "What is this paragraph about? What is that person or thing important?" ie one-level outlining.

Edited by Capt_Uhura
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I think it is fantastic the way you are combining. I understand needing something solid to commit you to forming the habit of doing the work, hence HO. Any thoughts that you have would be great when you read through things again.

 

I am vacillating between the two and possibly just buying the course from K12 even though it is intended for a 7th grader. I don't really 'like' that option the best, but also don't find The History of Mankind that interesting either and will have to make changes anyway. I wonder how my dd10 (5th next year) is going to take to meticulously keeping a folder organized of all the facts, timelines, outlines, etc. that HO is asking for. SOTW has been very easy and fluid, and I would love to continue that feeling of 'loving history' without getting mired down in the detailed work of folder upon folder of note keeping.

 

Having said that, I know she needs to step it up into reading more challenging material other than just SOTW, as she reads at high school level. She also needs to begin more analysis on what she is reading, instead of just listening and narrations. I've heard some find HO Level 2 on it's own rather dry and tedious, so I can understand wanting to add in K12HO with all of the thoughtful discussions and writing. ;-) I see your dilemma

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I"m still thinking about this. I hope to finalize my thoughts today. At this very second, I'm leaning towards dropping HO and doing WTM history w/ K12HO text. My thinking is that WTM would put DS more in the driver's seat. Rather than have a curriculum point out that he should know and understand these words or that this person is worth writing a sentence or two about, I think I want him to start discerning that for himself. I may still use HO as a guide but not give DS the curriculum to check off....just as a quick check for me. Plus, my younger son is doing SOTW Ancients w/ Usborne so DS10 can use Kingfisher and K12HO and they'd be doing the same thing whereas HO and SOTW doesn't match up as well. Although I thought I liked the progression of HO better .... less skipping back and forth.

 

As I said, I'm still chewing on this.... and I do realize the school year is half over and I'm chewing on this now.....where has the time gone?

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I"m still thinking about this. I hope to finalize my thoughts today. At this very second, I'm leaning towards dropping HO and doing WTM history w/ K12HO text. My thinking is that WTM would put DS more in the driver's seat. Rather than have a curriculum point out that he should know and understand these words or that this person is worth writing a sentence or two about, I think I want him to start discerning that for himself. I may still use HO as a guide but not give DS the curriculum to check off....just as a quick check for me. Plus, my younger son is doing SOTW Ancients w/ Usborne so DS10 can use Kingfisher and K12HO and they'd be doing the same thing whereas HO and SOTW doesn't match up as well. Although I thought I liked the progression of HO better .... less skipping back and forth.

 

As I said, I'm still chewing on this.... and I do realize the school year is half over and I'm chewing on this now.....where has the time gone?

 

This is very similar to what I'm doing, although we just finished Human Odyssey vol 1 and I have Rats, Bulls & Flying Machines that I'll probably use for the next half of this year since I can't find k12HO at a reasonable price. We're using KHE a la WTM and it's working really well to let k12HO be a lot of our extra reading. Of course, I'm a history lover so we're also reading FMMA and other library books, but k12HO and KHE have coordinated beautifully with SOTW and UILE for my youngers.:D

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I have not read the other replies but I will share what we are doing this year. My oldest , 7th grade ds, is doing HO Middle Ages Lev. 2. I debated on using it with his 5th grade brother also. I ended up deciding to have him do SOTW 2 with his two younger brothers, and I'm very glad I did. We do history 3 days a week and 5th grade ds does narrations and I also have him do a 1 level outline from the coordinating Kingfisher pages. He is getting so much more out of SOTW 2 than his 2nd, and K brothers. I will say he is a young 5th grader and will not be 11 till August. He despises writing even though he can be good at it.

 

My oldest "tolerates" HO and he is good at doing it on his own. There is a lot of summary writing which he doesn't like, but he needs it. I did substitute the Human Odyssey book for many readings.

 

I don't know if they still offer the sample weeks for HO, but I used them before I decided.

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Thanks Jen for the email of the schedule.. I am going to go through them today!

******

I am beginning to think I may go the route of K12HO since my younger ds will be doing SOTW2 next year. Can anyone tell me the updated information about obtaining the student or teacher pages for K12HO Vol 1 & 2? Do you get those when you buy the $99 book from K12? Can you still find those anywhere online? Is the Teacher guide absolutely necessary?

 

My dd9 will also be a young 10 next year in 5th and I'm just not sure she is entirely ready for all the organizational skills required to keep HO Middle Ages running smoothly. Although, she does love to read and it would be nice to incorporate the reading books in and also the outlining.

 

Capt. Uhura... I am enjoying watching you think your way through this, and I'd love to hear what you come up with. ;-)

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To get the teacher and student pages, you have to sign up for the $125 course. Then you have to cancel within 30days. They refund you $25 but you get to keep the materials, is my understanding.

 

You can find the teacher and student pages used at Amazon.

 

The teacher pages have the answers. :001_smile: You decide if you need them. :D

Edited by Capt_Uhura
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I am beginning to think I may go the route of K12HO since my younger ds will be doing SOTW2 next year. Can anyone tell me the updated information about obtaining the student or teacher pages for K12HO Vol 1 & 2? Do you get those when you buy the $99 book from K12? Can you still find those anywhere online? Is the Teacher guide absolutely necessary?

 

 

Just a hint--when you search Amazon, look for "K12 intermediate history". The guides aren't listed under the Human Odyssey name.

 

You may already know that, but it took me forever to figure it out...

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I am currently using a mix of K12 Human Odyssey, Vol. 1 and History Odyssey, Middle Ages Level 2. We actually did K12 Intermediate History A online last year for 6th grade for a few months with parts of History Odyssey. It was overkill. At first, I appreciated the apparent depth in the K12 pages, but quickly realized there was a fair amount of redundant busy work. My son opted to continue with the text, but we dropped the online work and sold the books. I also tweak History Odyssey to keep it from being dry. So my take is go with one or the other (if you get the workbook pages for K12) or be willing to pare each one down significantly so you don't overwhelm yourself or the student.

 

I can give you an example of what mixing them looks like here. Today, my son read "An Age of Faith: The Church in Western Europe." (Part 4, Chapter 8) This section is varied and covers the role of the Church, Thomas Aquinas, the move in architecture from Romanesque to Gothic, the call for the Crusades, Saladin and Richard the Lion-Heart, and pilgrimage. While he read the whole section today, we have been building up to it with some work in HO and will continue to cover the remaining items the next few days. We finished reading The Canterbury Tales last week and started HO Lessons 53 and 54 on it today. Ds filled in 2 character webs for storytellers from Canterbury Tales. He reviewed the five ways to develop a character (LL8, Unit 6 lesson), and created another web for his own character. The week's writing project is to write a pilgrimage tale featuring his storyteller. We had already watched David McCaulay's Cathedral previously. Ds outlined (Lesson 32) Kingfisher pages on the Crusades but I will not require a summary of three of the crusades nor will he have to write the report labeled "The Aftermath of the Crusades." He did map the Crusades and listened to me read another chapter in Coolidge's Tales from the Crusades this afternoon.

 

Honestly, we skip a fair amount of the notebook work and summaries and fill it with some TC lectures now that he is old enough to enjoy them. Last year, I felt compelled to really up the quantity of written work. What I discovered was that while we had more paper, we had less retention than we did from the previous years where we read a lot and talked even more.

 

Fifth grade is an amazing year. Students' abilities are beginning to shift from the concrete to the more abstract and they are so delighted with themselves and all of their observations. Don't make you or your student crazy with meaningless work. Work on the critical skills and talk over the content.

 

Good luck with your decision. About the K12 guidebooks, when you sign up for a class online, the guidebooks are sent to you and cost a whopping $10 total. If you really want to see what K12 is about, you may want to try it for a month or two and get your books that way. It's just a thought.

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Nice Lisa, I never even thought to NOT do parts of HO and make it work that way. ;-) Of course, I might have come up with that scenario eventually. Unfortunately when in the planning stages of things, I tend to look at the whole plan in total and not see that I can tweak just about anything to make it work better for the student.

 

Can I ask what TC lectures are?

 

Would you say then that you are primarily reading K12HO and doing the mapwork, outlining and book selections from HO to go along with it? Have you replaced The Story of Mankind completely with K12HO?

 

I definitely want to continue to encourage her love of history. I do think she is ready for a deeper understanding of it than what she will get if she just listens to SOTW and narrates, because she is ready to learn more. However, I don't want to bog her down needlessly because the days lesson says to do THIS today. I was hoping I could integrate some of HO with some of K12HO & student pages and somehow be pleased with the outcome.. my concern is that I will end up just throwing her at so many textbooks and busywork that it will suck the joy right out of history entirely. ;-) Like you said, I love the idea of reading and discussing and outlining and a bit of mapwork. I also like integrating literature into any subject I can these days as she LOVES to read.

 

How much of your daily work would you say comes from the K12HO student pages, and how much from HO? Do you primarily use one more than the other? You said you found a few areas redundant, so I am trying to ascertain which have you leaned towards more and why. Loads of questions... lol.. sorry. You might be busy and not have time, but I had to ask. ;-)

 

** The point at which the Book & Supply List for HO Middle Ages loses me is when it lists

Timeline

Three ring binder and 7 tab dividers

 

then I just go.. ugh.. that isn't going to go over that well with her when she is having to flip through 7 tab dividers to write things down.

Edited by SaDonna
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then I just go.. ugh.. that isn't going to go over that well with her when she is having to flip through 7 tab dividers to write things down.

 

I agree that that can be annoying for the child and hard for the mom who checks the work so we don't do it. :001_smile: Ds1 just keeps all his work together in one binder except his timeline. The dividers are just to keep the different sections- art & architecture, men & women, etc. separate but imo it's not really necesary.

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Nice Lisa, I never even thought to NOT do parts of HO and make it work that way. ;-) Of course, I might have come up with that scenario eventually. Unfortunately when in the planning stages of things, I tend to look at the whole plan in total and not see that I can tweak just about anything to make it work better for the student.

It used to bother me to leave a portion of a curriculum unused. I am over that now, for the most part.:tongue_smilie:

 

Can I ask what TC lectures are?

 

The Teaching Company offers lectures on DVD and CD from some of the top professors in the country. Their courses are primarily college-level, but they do have some for high school students. The set we are using this year is The Medieval World presented by Professor Dorsey Armstrong. This particular set is accessible to interested middle school students.

 

Would you say then that you are primarily reading K12HO and doing the mapwork, outlining and book selections from HO to go along with it? Have you replaced The Story of Mankind completely with K12HO?

 

We are primarily reading the K12HO, which has completely replaced The Story of Mankind. However, I also have books on individual topics like the African Medieval Kingdoms for going deeper in certain areas.

 

I definitely want to continue to encourage her love of history. I do think she is ready for a deeper understanding of it than what she will get if she just listens to SOTW and narrates, because she is ready to learn more. However, I don't want to bog her down needlessly because the days lesson says to do THIS today. I was hoping I could integrate some of HO with some of K12HO & student pages and somehow be pleased with the outcome.. my concern is that I will end up just throwing her at so many textbooks and busywork that it will suck the joy right out of history entirely. ;-) Like you said, I love the idea of reading and discussing and outlining and a bit of mapwork. I also like integrating literature into any subject I can these days as she LOVES to read.

 

My personal opinion is that you are more likely to encourage her love of history if you don't weigh her down with minutia. With the K12 book, she will cover the broader concepts, not simply facts. I think giving you the topics in the conclusion will give you a good idea of what I mean:

 

Geography sets the stage and nature plays a part

Governments and Laws matter

Beliefs and Ideas shape history

Individuals make a difference

Ingenuity and creativity are key

 

My son can give you the basic flow of ancient history into medieval times by looking at these broader concepts. The part above in bold is something I have managed to do here but fortunately, my youngest can smell busy work a mile away. He would rather write an essay on a topic than do a fill-in-the blank study guide. I felt like an abysmal TWTM failure last year when I tried to initiate the notebook pages. Oh the misery. "Mom, I outline the information, then I do summaries on the people, then I write the same information on the timeline." So he does a timeline and the outlines for note taking practice. We don't do summaries. He has enough writing to do without that. Another board member whose son disliked notebooking came up with the idea of using her timeline figures to make note cards the student can use for review. That creates a much happier situation here.

 

How much of your daily work would you say comes from the K12HO student pages, and how much from HO? Do you primarily use one more than the other? You said you found a few areas redundant, so I am trying to ascertain which have you leaned towards more and why. Loads of questions... lol.. sorry. You might be busy and not have time, but I had to ask. ;-)

 

K12HO provides the foundation and I will pick which lessons from HO that I want to use to reinforce what is learned in K12. So from the example of the chapter we read today, there are probably 10 HO lessons or more that can tie into the reading and they don't necessarily go in order

 

** The point at which the Book & Supply List for HO Middle Ages loses me is when it lists

Timeline

Three ring binder and 7 tab dividers

 

then I just go.. ugh.. that isn't going to go over that well with her when she is having to flip through 7 tab dividers to write things down.

 

Some students thrive on the type of work outlined in TWTM and HO and others need variations in order to be successful. You know your student best. Also, think about your own reactions to certain assignments. If I can feel an eye roll coming for myself on then I know that my youngest is going to protest. Some students are happy with "because I said so." Mine isn't. He forces me to be clear about why I am asking for a certain assignment to be done and what goal I expect to accomplish by asking for its completion.

 

The literature for HO is good. I added to it because I already had the books from an older child. I hope this helps and I haven't added to your confusion. The goal isn't to create the perfect curriculum but the curriculum you will complete and that your student will learn from.

Edited by swimmermom3
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Sadonna - Here's something I've set up. I have a resource binder for me. I have tabs for 6th grade, 7th, and 8th grades and a writing tab. I just wrote Swimmermom's recommendation for The Medieval World TC DVD in my 6th grade tab for next year. In each tab, I have a page titled History, Science etc. That way when I see a jewel, I write it down or copy/print it and put it in my binder.

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Swimmermom - I :001_wub: you!

 

You're exactly where I'm headed. I always fear though that my reaction is due to my education and don't want to let my biases get in the way. So while I eye roll at those definitions, I wonder if DS really needs to write them. I say no as I see that as busy work. We've discussed the K12HO reading, we've talked about the words, why write them down? But are they getting DS used to notetaking in the future?

 

So that's where I'm at....parts of HO and parts of K12HO student pages and then reassess at the end of the year for Middle Ages. I got my student pages so cheaply I have no problem whatsoever in only using a fourth or half of the book.

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Swimmermom - In an above post you mentioned:

 

My personal opinion is that you are more likely to encourage her love of history if you don't weigh her down with minutia. With the K12 book, she will cover the broader concepts, not simply facts. I think giving you the topics in the conclusion will give you a good idea of what I mean:

 

Geography sets the stage and nature plays a part

Governments and Laws matter

Beliefs and Ideas shape history

Individuals make a difference

Ingenuity and creativity are key

 

 

What conclusion is that from?

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I can give you an example of what mixing them looks like here. Today, my son read "An Age of Faith: The Church in Western Europe." (Part 4, Chapter 8) This section is varied and covers the role of the Church, Thomas Aquinas, the move in architecture from Romanesque to Gothic, the call for the Crusades, Saladin and Richard the Lion-Heart, and pilgrimage. While he read the whole section today, we have been building up to it with some work in HO and will continue to cover the remaining items the next few days. We finished reading The Canterbury Tales last week and started HO Lessons 53 and 54 on it today. Ds filled in 2 character webs for storytellers from Canterbury Tales. He reviewed the five ways to develop a character (LL8, Unit 6 lesson), and created another web for his own character. The week's writing project is to write a pilgrimage tale featuring his storyteller. We had already watched David McCaulay's Cathedral previously. Ds outlined (Lesson 32) Kingfisher pages on the Crusades but I will not require a summary of three of the crusades nor will he have to write the report labeled "The Aftermath of the Crusades." He did map the Crusades and listened to me read another chapter in Coolidge's Tales from the Crusades this afternoon.

 

 

Fifth grade is an amazing year. Students' abilities are beginning to shift from the concrete to the more abstract and they are so delighted with themselves and all of their observations. Don't make you or your student crazy with meaningless work. Work on the critical skills and talk over the content.

.

 

The part in bold...did you add that in or is that part of HO?

 

What level outlining is he doing from Kingfisher? My friend and I have been discussing that. IT seems most in a paragraph goes into the outline w/ Kingfisher. Is he doing one-level or two-level outlines?

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Swimmermom - I :001_wub: you!

 

You're exactly where I'm headed. I always fear though that my reaction is due to my education and don't want to let my biases get in the way. So while I eye roll at those definitions, I wonder if DS really needs to write them. I say no as I see that as busy work. We've discussed the K12HO reading, we've talked about the words, why write them down? But are they getting DS used to notetaking in the future?

 

So that's where I'm at....parts of HO and parts of K12HO student pages and then reassess at the end of the year for Middle Ages. I got my student pages so cheaply I have no problem whatsoever in only using a fourth or half of the book.

 

If you can get the K12HO student pages for a good price, then they are worth having as an extra tool for tweaking. For example, I was a bit sad yesterday at having sold my pages because HO Lesson 7 requires the student to write detailed summaries of the various religions practiced in the Middle Ages. I didn't want ds to write summaries, but I thought there was a great chart in the K12HO pages that the student could fill in for comparison. That would have saved me time instead of us having to make our own. As you can tell, I really jump around with HO. We covered the Byzantine Empire and Islam early on as they are some of the first pages in K12HO's section on the medieval world.

 

 

Swimmermom - In an above post you mentioned:

 

My personal opinion is that you are more likely to encourage her love of history if you don't weigh her down with minutia. With the K12 book, she will cover the broader concepts, not simply facts. I think giving you the topics in the conclusion will give you a good idea of what I mean:

 

Geography sets the stage and nature plays a part

Governments and Laws matter

Beliefs and Ideas shape history

Individuals make a difference

Ingenuity and creativity are key

 

 

What conclusion is that from?

 

Sorry! That is from The Human Odyssey's conclusion starting on p. 615. Something my oldest and I have been playing with to help us remember history's progression is to find words to file a particular period behind. To our way of thinking something like "Geography sets the stage" is a good way to remember that early civilizations sprang up around 4 river valleys. The geographic settings led to the development of agriculture which led to the development of "civilizations." Overly-simplistic, but hopefully you get the point.

 

The part in bold...did you add that in or is that part of HO?

 

What level outlining is he doing from Kingfisher? My friend and I have been discussing that. IT seems most in a paragraph goes into the outline w/ Kingfisher. Is he doing one-level or two-level outlines?

 

The assignment for The Canterbury Tales is directly from HO, Lessons 53 and 54. I added instructional material on character development from Lightning Lit 8, Unit 6. Ds had done that particular LL lesson in 5th grade, but I have kept the character development notes on hand for reference because it is one of the better ones that I have come across.

 

Swimmer Dude does level 2 outlining in Kingfisher and 3 level outlining in Human Odyssey and the Oxford Medieval to Early modern series. We alternate weeks for note taking and outlining with "formal" and "informal." Formal is teaching the skills in a traditional sense. Informal has come to mean approaching the skills the way mom would if she were doing the work herself. Swimmer Dude is in charge on this exercise. I am given one of dd's high school texts and a certain amount of time and I pull what I deem is the necessary information out of the book. Dude is right next to me, breathing down my neck, saying "I think this is important and you missed it." We developed this process after he asked me one day if the way I was teaching him to approach note taking was the same method I used for myself in graduate school.

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Ok, can you please PM me w/ an outline from Kingfisher including page numbers and an outline from K12HO w/ pages number? I know its a lot to ask but my friend and I spent a good deal of time on the phone discussing outlining and Kingfisher and K12HO. We'd love to see what someone else would do. Oh can you put the page numbers first so I can outline it myself before seeing yours? Pretty please?

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Oh how I wish I had all these texts in front of me already, so I could follow the discussion a little better. Regardless, I am taking copious notes, so please keep discussing! ;-)

 

Originally I had planned to move dd9 into HO Level 2 with K12HO (Middle Ages time frame), is that where you both currently are? Is there any particular reason I should back up and repeat Ancients at this level before moving on? I am under the impression that I will be needing both K12HO texts, and student pages if possible to coordinate with HO Level 2 Middle Ages.

 

I too would love to see example of student work, and frankly any schedule I can get my hands on for this time period.... especially when it comes to combining these two things. Not having the items in front of me, sometime between now and this summer can I possibly get an idea of how you both laid things out? Only if it means you can just scan and email though, as I wouldn't want to ask someone to type out a full on schedule if it isn't already done. It would just be great to feel like I had some preparation or idea of how things flowed.. how others have found it works best for them. Regardless though, I am learning a ton about this from your discussions!

 

Capt. Uhura.. thanks for the binder suggestion. I sort of do this in a computer file for that grade level. It gets a bit scattered, but I am able to quickly delete and edit things as I see fit. I seem to type more quickly than I write. ;-) So far though, it's been more of a generic file and I think I need to break it down into subjects and keep notes that way.

 

Thank you both ladies.. if I could have you over for lunch, I would wear you out with my questions! ;-) Of course.. I'd feed you though, so at least you would get something for your effort!

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Does anyone know if the K12 Intermediate History A TG has the content of the student pages. i.e could I use it and just make up my own worksheets?

I'm asking because I can get the TG for half the cost of the student pages.

 

No, it doesn't. Most of the time it doesn't even reapeat the questions, just gives you the answers. You need both.

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WEll, I would say no. Sometimes the teacher guide has only the answers. Sometimes it's a miniature reproduction of the student sheet w/ the answers. The map are also in the student guide w/ small reproductions w/ answers in the teacher guide. If you have another map program, you could substitute the maps. I see that the instructions for what to look for and draw on the maps are only in the student pages...at least for the map I'm looking at. I'm looking at World History A teacher and student. Ok after looking at several more lessons, you really need both.

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Does anyone know if the K12 Intermediate History A TG has the content of the student pages. i.e could I use it and just make up my own worksheets?

I'm asking because I can get the TG for half the cost of the student pages.

 

I have looked periodically thru the year on ebay, amazon, etc. to find the students pages - with no success.

can anyone tell me where I can find one? We LOVE History Odyssey (we are studying thru the Renaissance -1914 book), but I'd love to have some assignments for my ds to work on to make sure he's digesting it. For now, he is outlining a section in each chapter.

 

Anyway, if anyone knows how to get a student book, I'd appreciate the info!

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We have done History Odyssey, Level 2 Early Modern and are now doing Modern Era. I think that this level would be very hard for a fifth grader, but of course I offer the disclaimer that each child is different, etc.

Edited by TechWife
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We have done History Odyssey, Level 2 Early Modern and are now doing Modern Era. I think that this level would be very hard for a fifth grader, but of course I offer the disclaimer that each child is different, etc.

 

Yes, but the levels are progressive so Level 2 Ancients is a lot easier than Level 2 Early Modern. I think a 5th grader would be fine with Level 2 Ancients but I agree that the other time periods in Level 2 might be too difficult.

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Yes, I think I got dd9 started on the wrong foot, so to speak. When I pulled her from ps last spring, I decided I would start her and ds7 (1st grade) in SOTW Ancients together this year.. and now with her moving into 5th grade, I had wanted to beef it up a bit with introductory outlining, and a deeper understanding of that time of history. Unfortunately, she has had no prior world history in ps, so I feel like I am trying to transition her into logic stage history this coming year to catch her up to where she would have been had we been hs all along.

 

She is an excellent reader, most likely at a high school level in comprehension, but hasn't done much writing beyond single paragraphs with topic sentence, supporting sentences, and closing sentence. She has been completing glencoe free literature study guides as well as VP study guides this year.. she can definitely comprehend what she is reading, so I am hoping K12HO won't be a problem. Can you all explain to me the big leaps that HO makes between HO Level 2 Ancients and the other levels? What are the main differences and how do the expectations change. Should I be thinking about backing her up for yet another year of Ancients? As I was sort of hoping to keep her lined up with ds in the time period we are studying. I certainly don't want to rush her though...

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Yes, I think I got dd9 started on the wrong foot, so to speak. When I pulled her from ps last spring, I decided I would start her and ds7 (1st grade) in SOTW Ancients together this year.. and now with her moving into 5th grade, I had wanted to beef it up a bit with introductory outlining, and a deeper understanding of that time of history. Unfortunately, she has had no prior world history in ps, so I feel like I am trying to transition her into logic stage history this coming year to catch her up to where she would have been had we been hs all along.

 

She is an excellent reader, most likely at a high school level in comprehension, but hasn't done much writing beyond single paragraphs with topic sentence, supporting sentences, and closing sentence. She has been completing glencoe free literature study guides as well as VP study guides this year.. she can definitely comprehend what she is reading, so I am hoping K12HO won't be a problem. Can you all explain to me the big leaps that HO makes between HO Level 2 Ancients and the other levels? What are the main differences and how do the expectations change. Should I be thinking about backing her up for yet another year of Ancients? As I was sort of hoping to keep her lined up with ds in the time period we are studying. I certainly don't want to rush her though...

 

Have you printed out the samples for HO Ancients 2 and HO Middle Ages 2?

 

ETA: Outlining in HO Ancients Level 2:

Lesson 1 on First Civilizations - student fills in the blanks on main topic summary sentences

Lesson 18 on Egypt - student writes 3-4 summary sentences that express the main ideas of the reading

Lesson 27 on Ancient China - includes outlining instruction for a basic two-level outline.

I. Full sentence stating main topic

A. fact about main topic

B. fact about main topic

II. Full sentence stating main topic

 

In the Ancients program, the student begins with the basic foundational skills to develop an outline. In the Middle Ages 2 curriculum, the student is asked to deliver a 2 level outline by Lesson 5 on the Jewish Persecution. The student is given suggested main topic sentences and asked to add at least 2 topics. By Lesson 57, you have moved into three-level outlines. The following is the last writing assignment from the Middle Ages Level 2:

 

For a final writing project, choose one of these statements:

1. The Renaissance was a natural progression from the Middle Ages and was not a dramatic change.

2. The Renaissance was a dramatic change from the Middle Ages and was not a natural progression.

On the top of a page in your Summaries section, write the statement that you believe most accurately

describes the transition from the Middle Ages to the Renaissance. Below the statement, write several paragraphs

that prove the statement. It is helpful to write down several points on a separate piece of paper; make

each point a paragraph in your essay. Try to fi nd at least three points to prove the statement. It does not matter

which statement you choose; it only matters that you can support it. Th ere is not a right or wrong choice.

 

Imo, the part in bold is a somewhat tall order for a fifth grader.

 

HTH!

Edited by swimmermom3
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Yes.. and after I typed that, I went back and looked at them again. I see now that they intro Ancients by incorporating summaries, history pockets, etc. Middle Ages seems like a step up from that with more work expected. After reviewing both, I have come to the decision that no matter what curriculum, I am going to move her into Middle Ages next year. I think between all the extra reading she has been doing about Ancients, mixed with SOTW and MOH Ancients she has had her fill of Ancient history for the time being. It's time to learn something new. I may have to condense it a bit, which is why I am thinking more on the lines of K12HO with it's narrative story telling.

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I would not do another year of Ancients and I would definitely keep them together. My oldest should have gone into Middle Ages this year but I knew there was no way I could have him in MIddle Ages and my 2nd grader in Ancients. And there were things in Ancients he wanted to cover and he, DS10, agreed he wanted to stay on the same topic as DS7. K12HO gave us a lot more to discuss w/ Sumer than we ever covered before and reading Gilgamesh the Hero was a real treat. But I'm looking forward to Middle Ages next year as that will be new material for us!

 

I would just move her forward and adapt/tweak when needed.

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I would not do another year of Ancients and I would definitely keep them together. My oldest should have gone into Middle Ages this year but I knew there was no way I could have him in MIddle Ages and my 2nd grader in Ancients. And there were things in Ancients he wanted to cover and he, DS10, agreed he wanted to stay on the same topic as DS7. K12HO gave us a lot more to discuss w/ Sumer than we ever covered before and reading Gilgamesh the Hero was a real treat. But I'm looking forward to Middle Ages next year as that will be new material for us!

 

I would just move her forward and adapt/tweak when needed.

 

Or take a year and do world cultures.:D

 

Sa Donna, I added more information to my previous post.

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ETA: Outlining in HO Ancients Level 2:

Lesson 1 on First Civilizations - student fills in the blanks on main topic summary sentences

Lesson 18 on Egypt - student writes 3-4 summary sentences that express the main ideas of the reading

Lesson 27 on Ancient China - includes outlining instruction for a basic two-level outline.

I. Full sentence stating main topic

A. fact about main topic

B. fact about main topic

II. Full sentence stating main topic

 

In the Ancients program, the student begins with the basic foundational skills to develop an outline. In the Middle Ages 2 curriculum, the student is asked to deliver a 2 level outline by Lesson 5 on the Jewish Persecution. The student is given suggested main topic sentences and asked to add at least 2 topics. By Lesson 57, you have moved into three-level outlines. The following is the last writing assignment from the Middle Ages Level 2:

 

For a final writing project, choose one of these statements:

1. The Renaissance was a natural progression from the Middle Ages and was not a dramatic change.

2. The Renaissance was a dramatic change from the Middle Ages and was not a natural progression.

On the top of a page in your Summaries section, write the statement that you believe most accurately

describes the transition from the Middle Ages to the Renaissance. Below the statement, write several paragraphs

that prove the statement. It is helpful to write down several points on a separate piece of paper; make

each point a paragraph in your essay. Try to fi nd at least three points to prove the statement. It does not matter

which statement you choose; it only matters that you can support it. Th ere is not a right or wrong choice.

 

Imo, the part in bold is a somewhat tall order for a fifth grader.

 

HTH!

 

****** hmmmmm.... I just realized, I don't know how to grab a quote and then write more about it.******(****

 

 

Yes, you are right.. that is A LOT to be asking of my particular 5th grader next year, that's for sure. ;-) They both LOVE history.. and she does a great job summarizing sections for me, but analyzing and describing to that degree will put her over the edge. That's why, other than the orderliness (sp?) and the extra readings, I am at a loss as to how to implement Level 2 HO Middle Ages with her.

 

How do I even move her towards that before I land her in Modern History next year even more overwhelmed.. I am feeling a bit behind that's for sure when it comes to teaching logic and analysis of subject material. We are considering doing Paige's Elemental Science Logic Stage Biology next year, so I know she will also be getting additional outlining instruction there (intro level), so I was hoping to make history fun, yet a bit challenging.

 

I love your idea of a world cultures year too. Any suggestions on that front to go off and explore?

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  • 1 month later...

Swimmermom,

 

Could you tell me a little about Suzanne Strauss Art's books "The Story of the Middle Ages" and "The Story of the Renaissance" and how they compare with the Human Odyssey series of the same time period? I noticed somewhere on the board you mentioned planning to use that last year. I ended up reading through some of the sample pages at Amazon and enjoyed them. I just wondered if you have used them primarily for your spine, or if you worked with Human Odyssey more and why? Thanks.

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Swimmermom,

 

Could you tell me a little about Suzanne Strauss Art's books "The Story of the Middle Ages" and "The Story of the Renaissance" and how they compare with the Human Odyssey series of the same time period? I noticed somewhere on the board you mentioned planning to use that last year. I ended up reading through some of the sample pages at Amazon and enjoyed them. I just wondered if you have used them primarily for your spine, or if you worked with Human Odyssey more and why? Thanks.

 

Sigh. What haven't I used-that's secular?:tongue_smilie:For Ancients in 6th grade, we started out with the Oxford books. By the third one, my ds had had enough of "old pots." A friend on the board brought us the K12 Vol. 1, which my son liked, but for whatever reason, he loved the Suzanne Strauss Art books, which is weird if you are familiar with all of the materials. Strauss's books are in black and white with few illustrations or drawings. However, they are well-written and organized. Ds flew through Egypt, Rome, Greece, one ancient China book and the one on Alexander. They have comprehension questions at the end of a chapter and suggested projects. They are also useful for outlining or note taking for an older logic stage student.

 

Fast-forward to the Middle Ages and 7th grade. K12 Vol. 1 and 2 are still fine, but Strauss's Middle Ages and Renaissance books were not nearly as popular. Although, he did read and enjoy the one on Islam as it was one of the best resources on the topic we could find for this age. Perversely, he is now reading and enjoying the Oxford series for Medieval to Early Modern.

 

I realize I sound indulgent with the switching around, but on my better days as a teacher, I see organizational patterns in the way my son processes information. History is tricky. Do you do it strictly chronologically or chronologically and geographically? Or you can do it thematically like K12 does.

 

I am sorry. This is probably not helpful. We have found that we need materials that are both specific with details and ones that make the broader thematic connections.

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Hmmm.... yes, that is helpful. lol. I was already having a hard time trying to decide between the three sets... ;-) I love having LOTS of resources handy though, and it's all about teaching the materials that are working for the student at the time. I just need a vote ... people need to rate all three for me in the order of usefulness, interest level and information given. ;-)

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