3peasinapod Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I didn't want to hijack the Catholic vs. Protestant thread, so thought I would add my own. I was raised Catholic, as was my dad. My grandma, who is 95, is still Catholic. When I was 21 years old, I started attending a non-denominational church. My 3 sisters have also stopped attending Catholic mass, instead attending a non-denom. This is my question, and maybe only my dad could answer it completely. I have asked him, but he refuses to answer it. Anyhow, he has told us all (my sisters and I) that he failed as a parent and we failed him, as we don't attend a Catholic church. Do you think this is just a personal choice of his or does it stem from Catholic teachings? I am trying to be really benign here, and please don't let this blow up, please. I am truly searching for an answer to this, as it bothers me. Any wisdom for this? Not trying to stir anything up, just seeking. :001_smile: I also wanted to say that he attended my sister's church and mocked the worshippers. Maybe this is just him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 My MIL thinks of their religious training for her 4 kids as failure, as none of them are Catholic, anymore :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mejane Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Mocking aside, I think it's a Catholic thing, or at least used to be. My husband, who has not been to church since he was confirmed at 13 and doesn't even know if he believes in God, still thinks of himself as a Catholic. As he puts it, "Once a Catholic, always a Catholic." ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I don't know that I'd think I *failed*, but, yes, I'd be disappointed if my dc left our denomination (Lutheran) for one so wholly different as an American non-denom (in my neck of the woods that means Baptist/Pentecostal flavored). Their denying the Sacraments would really bother me, in a way that their leaving for the Catholic or Orthodox or Anglican church wouldn't <shrug>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Can you flip if ? What if your kids stopped being Christian, or decided they wanted to become Catholic? Would it matter to you, or would you be OK with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'd consider it a combination of catholic culture, his age and his personality. I have to say that a grown man mocking churchgoers would be an issue for me. If that was done in front of my kids, I feel it's a disrespect and undermine of my parenting and I would take steps to limit that immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3peasinapod Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 I don't know that I'd think I *failed*, but, yes, I'd be disappointed if my dc left our denomination (Lutheran) for one so wholly different as an American non-denom (in my neck of the woods that means Baptist/Pentecostal flavored). Their denying the Sacraments would really bother me, in a way that their leaving for the Catholic or Orthodox or Anglican church wouldn't <shrug>. I just realized that maybe this is my issue! My desire to please my Dad. See, I am so ignorant of Catholicism. What are sacraments? Dad used to take us to a different Catholic church every week (there were plenty) and then fall asleep. I do see where you are coming from, definitely. Can you flip if ? What if your kids stopped being Christian, or decided they wanted to become Catholic? Would it matter to you, or would you be OK with it? This follows up with the response above. I definitely see this. I would struggle with feeling a failure. Thanks for the eye-opener! I guess, I would hope I would see that kids make their own choices. Thank you for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Their denying the Sacraments would really bother me, in a way that their leaving for the Catholic or Orthodox or Anglican church wouldn't <shrug>. Do you mind expanding on this? I'm not sure I'm following what you mean. Thanks. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3peasinapod Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'd consider it a combination of catholic culture, his age and his personality. I have to say that a grown man mocking churchgoers would be an issue for me. If that was done in front of my kids, I feel it's a disrespect and undermine of my parenting and I would take steps to limit that immediately. Yes, he is almost 70 years old and was raised totally different than myself. He hasn't come to church with me, so I don't have to worry about limiting it, but I agree. This was about 15 years ago that he mocked, and he has softened since then, keeping dramatic thoughts to himself unless asked. There is always that feeling that he is disappointed in me, though. Like I said, maybe this is my issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I haven't yet read all the replies. I just want to say that YOU'RE the adult and your religious preference is your own choice. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 My 83 year old Baptist grandma gives me plenty of grief about converting to the Catholic faith. Sometimes people take it personally when we don't make the same choices they did. I don't know that I would call it a specifically Catholic thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3peasinapod Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 My 83 year old Baptist grandma gives me plenty of grief about converting to the Catholic faith. Sometimes people take it personally when we don't make the same choices they did. I don't know that I would call it a specifically Catholic thing. Thanks! I guess to see an issue inside and out from all angles, my side and potentially his, helps to have mercy and grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Thanks! I guess to see an issue inside and out from all angles, my side and potentially his, helps to have mercy and grace. :grouphug: It is hard to have to listen, but mercy and grace are probably what really is most called for. Not that you can make him see that. I would guess that his issues stem more from regrets he has that he didn't do what was necessary from his POV to pass his faith on to his kids. I know, in my case, my grandma feels guilty that she didn't step in and make more effort to take me to church when my own parents didn't and that she didn't pass her faith solidly on to any of her kids either. But as adults, we get to make our own choices and our own mistakes. I am sorry, for your sake, that your father doesn't see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3peasinapod Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 :grouphug: It is hard to have to listen, but mercy and grace are probably what really is most called for. Not that you can make him see that. I would guess that his issues stem more from regrets he has that he didn't do what was necessary from his POV to pass his faith on to his kids. I know, in my case, my grandma feels guilty that she didn't step in and make more effort to take me to church when my own parents didn't and that she didn't pass her faith solidly on to any of her kids either. But as adults, we get to make our own choices and our own mistakes. I am sorry, for your sake, that your father doesn't see that. I must get my stubbornness from him! :001_huh: You are totally right in regard to regrets and such. When he refuses to speak about things (probably due to his upbringing and age), I can sometimes only dig into my own opinion, therefore my stubborn streak butting against his! I'm glad I asked this question, all the responses are helping me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I just realized that maybe this is my issue! My desire to please my Dad. See, I am so ignorant of Catholicism. What are sacraments? Dad used to take us to a different Catholic church every week (there were plenty) and then fall asleep. I do see where you are coming from, definitely. :001_huh: I think if your dad wants to know why his children didn't think staying in the Catholic church was important, he doesn't need to look any farther than in the mirror. Anyway, the Lutheran view of the Sacraments is that they are gifts given and instituted by Christ, using physical means to communicate His grace to us (the Catholic view may be somewhat different; plus Catholics have seven Sacraments, to the Lutheran two). Thus we believe, for example, that God uses Baptism as a means of salvation - that baptizing babies saves them. The point is that the Sacraments are things *God* does for *us*. This is completely different from the view that baptism/communion are ordinances - things *we* do for God. Do you mind expanding on this? I'm not sure I'm following what you mean. Thanks. :) By "denying the Sacraments", I mean denying that Baptism/Communion are means of grace, denying that they have any power, denying that they are God's gift to us at all - turning them into nothing more than a mere work of man, a work we do for God, no less. Sacramental theology is really central to Lutheran theology - certainly the belief that the Sacraments are really just ordinances, things we do for God, that have no power whatsoever, has a similar impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherry in OH Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I didn't want to hijack the Catholic vs. Protestant thread, so thought I would add my own. I was raised Catholic, as was my dad. My grandma, who is 95, is still Catholic. When I was 21 years old, I started attending a non-denominational church. My 3 sisters have also stopped attending Catholic mass, instead attending a non-denom. This is my question, and maybe only my dad could answer it completely. I have asked him, but he refuses to answer it. Anyhow, he has told us all (my sisters and I) that he failed as a parent and we failed him, as we don't attend a Catholic church. Do you think this is just a personal choice of his or does it stem from Catholic teachings? I am trying to be really benign here, and please don't let this blow up, please. I am truly searching for an answer to this, as it bothers me. Any wisdom for this? Not trying to stir anything up, just seeking. :001_smile: Traditional belief, not just Catholic. The actions/choices of the child are a result of his/her upbringing. Your father very likely views your choice of a different church as his failure to properly raise you in the Church. Your father may also see you as failing to honor your father. This is just him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 By "denying the Sacraments", I mean denying that Baptism/Communion are means of grace, denying that they have any power, denying that they are God's gift to us at all - turning them into nothing more than a mere work of man, a work we do for God, no less. Sacramental theology is really central to Lutheran theology - certainly the belief that the Sacraments are really just ordinances, things we do for God, that have no power whatsoever, has a similar impact. Thank you for replying to my question. I understand now. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I don't know that I'd think I *failed*, but, yes, I'd be disappointed if my dc left our denomination (Lutheran) for one so wholly different as an American non-denom (in my neck of the woods that means Baptist/Pentecostal flavored). Their denying the Sacraments would really bother me, in a way that their leaving for the Catholic or Orthodox or Anglican church wouldn't <shrug>. I feel the same way. For the record, I'm RC, married to a Taoist by a Lutheran Priest, raising children who are Episcopalian/Buddhist. There are limits. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 :001_huh: I think if your dad wants to know why his children didn't think staying in the Catholic church was important, he doesn't need to look any farther than in the mirror. I'm surprised that you feel qualified to make that judgment of someone else's parent. Many things can contribute to someone choosing another faith. Really. It can be about the teachings and other aspects of that denomination rather than family members. It can also be about relationships in the family but I still don't get why you think you know the answer to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVA Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'd consider it a combination of catholic culture, his age and his personality. I have to say that a grown man mocking churchgoers would be an issue for me. If that was done in front of my kids, I feel it's a disrespect and undermine of my parenting and I would take steps to limit that immediately. Completely :iagree: Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) I'm surprised that you feel qualified to make that judgment of someone else's parent. Many things can contribute to someone choosing another faith. Really. It can be about the teachings and other aspects of that denomination rather than family members. It can also be about relationships in the family but I still don't get why you think you know the answer to that. I agree with 42. You can judge actions and the fruit of one's labor. If the OP's father took the kids to mass and the OP doesn't know anything about the sacraments. Wow (on the dad, not OP). ETA: Mocking is just rude especially in OP father's case...beam in eye Edited February 4, 2011 by LG Gone Wild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 It isn't just a Catholic thing. I was raised flaming Southern Baptist. We now attend a Lutheran church. When I told my dad, he exploded. I think he would have preferred to hear I was the leader of a drug cartel. I know he was dissappointed, but my job is to please Jesus, not my dad. :grouphug: I'm sorry you are going through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I agree with 42. You can judge actions and the fruit of one's labor. If the OP's father took the kids to mass and the OP doesn't know anything about the sacraments. Wow (on the dad, not OP). ETA: Mocking is just rude especially in OP father's case...beam in eye Well, I have to agree that what you have said does make sense. We certainly do have an influence on our children. However, there comes a time when we either "own" or do not "own" our faith or lack of faith. My mother was raised to be LDS. My Dad was raised by a Baptist mom and an Assembly of God father. When I was a teenager and in my early 20's I looked into what the LDS church taught and decided that I did not believe what they believed. I also looked into what mainline protestant's believe and realized that is how I believe. Ultimately, I decided for myself that the beliefs of the LDS church are not my own. It's not my Moms fault I think their beliefs do not match scripture. I found that out by my own studies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Well, I have to agree that what you have said does make sense. We certainly do have an influence on our children. However, there comes a time when we either "own" or do not "own" our faith or lack of faith. My mother was raised to be LDS. My Dad was raised by a Baptist mom and an Assembly of God father. When I was a teenager and in my early 20's I looked into what the LDS church taught and decided that I did not believe what they believed. I also looked into what mainline protestant's believe and realized that is how I believe. Ultimately, I decided for myself that the beliefs of the LDS church are not my own. It's not my Moms fault I think their beliefs do not match scripture. I found that out by my own studies. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest momk2000 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Can you flip if ? What if your kids stopped being Christian, or decided they wanted to become Catholic? Would it matter to you, or would you be OK with it? If my children eventually choose to change denominations, I will not feel like a failure in any way. It doesn't matter to me which denomination they choose. Cathoilic, Lutheran, Baptist, etc... they are all Christian. If my children lost their faith, I would be saddened and very disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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