Saxon vs. MM

[ByGrace3]

We are using Saxon 1 for my 5 yo. She is doing fine but it takes FOREVER. I do like the way they teach things but we are simply spending too much time on math. I have looked a lot at Math Mammoth and really like the simplicity, however, I have a few questions. From what I have read MM is all in one, all explanation is on the workbook page, if you use MM do you find that is enough? I see that you add in games and such. My dd loves games and the hands on aspect of Saxon, I fear she would miss that in MM. Or is there a component of that I am missing?

Anyone who has switched from Saxon to MM have any advice? Also, if I am thinking about switching next year, should I go ahead and switch now or wait it out? I hate to quit in the middle of it if it is working, but 1-1.5 hours a day on math is just wearing on me. I want more time for other things with her. After months of this time commitment, MM seems too simple to implement! Is it as simple as it seems?

Also, if we do finish out the year of Saxon 1, would she go into MM 2 or should I start with MM1?

For those that used MM, what did you switch to after 6th? (it does only go to 6th right?

Lastly, is MM enough on its own? I would rather have a complete math curriculum and not need to supplement.

Thoughts? Thanks!

[boscopup]

If it's taking you 1-1.5 hours a day to teach... WOW. I'd change too, and I think it's a legitimate reason to change in the middle of the year. One thing to think about - the earlier you start a new methodology (whatever math program you choose), the better your DD will understand it. It's easier to jump into MM (or Singapore, or anything else) in first grade then to do so in 3rd or 4th grade, for example. The method is different, and it's good to start at the beginning and get the whole method, kwim?

 

Now my son used Saxon K and half of Saxon 1 in private school. I will say up front that it went too slow for him. He's very mathy, and gets concepts immediately. He doesn't need the incremental nature of Saxon. You don't have to build up to it for him. You can give him the info and he'll understand it. He does need review (as every child would), but he doesn't need to be given the concept in itty bitty, teeny tiny pieces, as Saxon does. So that's what our problem was with Saxon. I never had to teach it, so I didn't know how LONG it took to teach, but yeah, I'd totally have scrapped it for that reason if I had had to teach it. I want short and sweet and easy. :D

 

Anyway, at the beginning of his first grade year, I started afterschooling with Math Mammoth 1A. It was going faster than Saxon 1 was at that point. 1A is mostly addition and subtraction facts as well as showing the relationship between addition and subtraction, learning the idea of fact families, etc. I'm pretty sure my son had not dealt a LOT with fact families in Saxon, or at least they weren't called that (again, the incremental nature - I know they did something resembling them, but it wasn't "write a fact family for 2, 3, and 5"), so I did have to teach him that. It's easy enough to teach on a white board yourself though. Maria Miller (author of Math Mammoth) has a video on this on youtube, if you need guidance.

 

Once I pulled my son out of school and we were able to do just Math Mammoth every day, I accelerated through 1B a bit. We started place value (chapter 4), and learned how to use an abacus. He picked it up right away. I don't know if he'd used one at school or if he just immediately understood. I can never tell with him. :tongue_smilie:It was clear that he knew place value for 1 and tens like the back of his hand. Saxon had taught that very well in K and 1st, using the money stuff in the morning meeting thing, I think (again, I haven't taught it myself - I just know bits and pieces of how it gets used in the classroom). So I gave him the chapter test, saw that he knew that stuff, and we moved on. We skipped the chapter on shapes/measuring, as he had hit all those topics in Saxon as well, and they'll be done again in the second grade book. We also skipped the clock chapter, as it only dealt with hours and half hours, which he knew already (we won't skip it in grade 2, as that will deal with 5 minutes and such). I went over any new terminology from that chapter, but didn't do all the problems. We just did a few, did the end of chapter test to show that he understood it, and moved on. Chapter 7... addition/subtraction 0-100. We did ALL of this, as I think it is pretty foundational for the method taught through the years. It talked about making 10s when doing something like 8 + 4, you'd turn the 8 into a 10 by taking 2 from 4, so it ends up being (8 + 2) + 2 = 10 + 2 = 12. Mental math. I made sure we did many problems here, and I also brought out the base 10 blocks to illustrate it better when needed. I don't know if Saxon ever teaches this concept, but if they don't, I definitely recommend working through chapter 7 of 1B.

 

Manipulatives... MM doesn't use manipulatives explicitly like Saxon does, BUT it's easy to use them when you need them. So far, I've only needed base 10 blocks a couple times (like in the above example). The abacus is also taught in 1B, though we haven't used it again. I'll probably pull it back out for grade 2 at some point. My son just doesn't need manipulatives very often, so I'm fine with the lack of them. It's easy to add them when necessary, and you could easily just replicate the pictures (which are excellent) if a child needs to touch and feel things instead of just seeing them. Don't be afraid to add in manipulatives when you see a need!

 

Layout of the curriculum... There is no separate teacher's manual. All of the instruction is in the student work text. There are links and instructions for various games and online practice at the beginning of each chapter. I have used the card games in the addition/subtraction facts section (the actual problems would say "Play xyz with sums of 7", and my son would get to that "problem" and say "Mama! We're supposed to play xyz now!" :) There is a separate file with answer keys (and it gives steps to word problems where needed). There are cummulative reviews in separate files (chapters 1-4, 1-5, 1-6, 1-7), chapter tests, and end of year test. There is a worksheet generator, which is basically a html page with links to a free online worksheet maker, but with specific parameters already built in, so it does save you some time to just click the link.

 

I haven't found any need to supplement Math Mammoth. I started out doing some MEP worksheets along with it, but then decided that we really didn't need them, so I've dropped those.

 

After 6th grade, I plan on taking Maria Miller's suggestion and going the textbook route for algebra on up. I agree with her position on that (you can read it on her website).

[wapiti]

:iagree:

 

1-1.5 hrs of math per day would be way too much. I don't think I can get dd9 to sit through that much ;) (and certainly not of Saxon - she was not a fan, at least of 6/5). I can't say I'm a fan of Saxon either, but if it's working, have you considered cutting down on the number of problems you do for each lesson?

 

I would say MM is enough on its own unless the presentation on a particular topic isn't working. It comes with links for making extra worksheets if you want more review, plus there is a review for each chapter, as well as a cumulative review for each chapter, and chapter tests. I haven't used MM at the first grade level yet, but I am a big fan of manipulatives for that level of math (all my kids have done montessori in the early years). So I'd definitely not be shy about adding in manipulatives where you see fit.

[rwilliams]

I really like mm but we started in 3rd grade with it. I would make sure to use lots of manipulatives for math in early grades and not jump to symbolic too soon. I would use mm but supplement with extra hands on practice with outside manipulatives and games. The book Family math is an excellent resource for this.

[ByGrace3]

Sounds like Saxon (which does take a long time, but does include the meeting book/calendar, skip counting, lesson, and worksheet alot of which she does on her own) might be good with the hands on aspect for the younger years. Would it be very difficult then to switch to something like MM in say 3rd-4th when it becomes more independent anyway?

For LA, would FLL1, Abeka Phonics, would WWE also need to be added in there? how important is a separate writing curr, there is some writing with FLL1 is there not? Thanks!

[boscopup]

Sounds like Saxon (which does take a long time, but does include the meeting book/calendar, skip counting, lesson, and worksheet alot of which she does on her own) might be good with the hands on aspect for the younger years. Would it be very difficult then to switch to something like MM in say 3rd-4th when it becomes more independent anyway?

 

The problem with doing that is that MM teaches a different method, so you might have to back track to get the mental math stuff. Again though, I don't know if Saxon ever teaches the mental math as I described above. I think MM is a program that would be easiest for the child to just start in grade 1 and progress forward. It can be jumped into later, but you're going to have to backtrack and get some stuff from previous years.

 

Also, my son took the Saxon placement test (note that it isn't accurate when they're already doing Saxon, but I did it anyway), and he tested very much into Saxon 2 when he hadn't even done Saxon 1 yet. MM 1 at an accelerated pace was appropriate for him. MM 1 was way more difficult than Saxon 1, at least the first half (I haven't seen the second half of Saxon 1).

 

Again, you can add manipulatives to MM anywhere that they're needed - it's very easy to do. I think Saxon K taught all the skip counting and calendar stuff that my son needed to know at that point. We haven't lost anything by not going over them daily, though you could continue that part if you wanted to. It's your homeschool. You can teach her however you want, mixing programs as you see fit! :D

 

For LA, would FLL1, Abeka Phonics, would WWE also need to be added in there? how important is a separate writing curr, there is some writing with FLL1 is there not? Thanks!

You could get the WWE instructor text and use that to guide the writing. I think a lot of the writing has been removed from FLL1 and FLL2 though (vs FLL 1/2). You'd still need make sure you're doing plenty of copywork and narrations. The WWE instructor text tells you what kinds of passages to select and you could use things you're already using for history/science/literature.

[Guest]

You know what, I just had to give you a virtual :grouphug:. Or maybe just get one from you, lol. I am in the same boat as you. We are doing Saxon right now and I really, truly think it is great. I feel it is very thorough, my son is understanding, I really like it. I enjoy teaching it. It just takes forever. All week has been good, we've had fun working on place value and using manipulatives, but then it's days like today where I just question if we're in the right spot. My son and I sometimes have a battle of wills, where it is a challenge just to get him to write his name on his paper. (Let alone the rest of that worksheet!) So, no words of wisdom, just know that you are not alone.

[TheAutumnOak]

I haven't found any need to supplement Math Mammoth.

 

:iagree:

I have a 6 year old in first grade doing MM 1, and it is working out great for him...We don't use anything else...I find the explanation and example at the top of the section is enough for me to understand and explain it to him...Unless something went incredibly wrong, I have no desire to switch to something else...

[mez4family]

I am doing MM grade 1 and we enjoy it's simplicity. We spend about 20-40 min on math each day, and I consistently do the cummulative reviews after each chapter. I use manipulatives when the lesson doesn't click (usually I use the box of crayons that's always on out table), and there are additional games and worksheets provided for more review. I haven't used anything else, so I can't compare, sorry.

 

HTH