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If my 8 year old neighbor girl falls off her parents car ...


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and badly hurts herself, may I call Social Services on them? When I arrived home from work this evening, I found my neighbor's 8 year old daughter dancing on top of her parent's car. They were no where around (most likely in their house). I have to admit I was very concerned she might fall off and the only thing to catch her would have been concrete and/or pavement. :eek:

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and badly hurts herself, may I call Social Services on them? When I arrived home from work this evening, I found my neighbor's 8 year old daughter dancing on top of her parent's car. They were no where around (most likely in their house). I have to admit I was very concerned she might fall off and the only thing to catch her would have been concrete and/or pavement. :eek:

 

Why don't you go over to their house and just tell them? Why does the state have to be involved? I do not understand *at all* your desire to call the state when a simple - "Hey, are you aware your daughter may hurt herself out here?" would do quite well. I am frankly stunned you would even consider it.

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I'm assuming there's more history here than this one incident-- it seems so extreme to consider calling social services when (as Kate said) calling the parents or knocking on the door would probably take care of the situation. Or even saying to the girl kindly, "Hi Neighbor Girl! Maybe you should hop down, I'm worried you'll fall off onto the pavement and get hurt."

 

Though it may be unwise, it's hardly abusive or neglectful to allow a child to play in the front of the house when the parents are home.

 

Cat

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This isn't the first time we have had something like this happen with them and have talked with them, but this behavior still continues.

 

If I don't post again on this board, it is because it seems a lot of you aren't very good at being tactful and I am not the first person I have seen you all attack.

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So you think you should call child services because an 8-y-o shouldn't be allowed to play in the yard without direct supervision? Then what would the right age to play in one's yard without a parent watching be? Or how about in another room than a parent?

 

Wow. I guess ALL the parents in our (mainly upper middle class) neighborhood are abusive, then. There are crowds of elementary students who play outside hours each day without constant supervision. Funnily enough, that's one of the big reasons we chose it--low traffic, '60s style neighborhood with loads of kids.

 

I'd inform the parents of what she was doing--or even a friendly, "What do you think your mom would do if she saw that?" I wouldn't call social services!

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This isn't the first time we have had something like this happen with them and have talked with them, but this behavior still continues.

 

If I don't post again on this board, it is because it seems a lot of you aren't very good at being tactful and I am not the first person I have seen you all attack.

 

Luanne,

 

You are assuming that we know more of the situation than you gave us. How could we possibly know? You wrote only that she was playing on top of the car and should you call CPS. Do you not see how some of us might think - what?? If you wanted us to know there was more to the story then you should have told us. There are over 3600 people on this board. It was a shocking thing you wrote--to me anyway. I would be appalled if my neighbor called CPS for such a minor thing.

 

I am sorry you are upset, but really, can you not see why *we* would be upset if we were in your neighbor's place? My 5yo neighbor has free reign over our street - he is all over the place and often out of sight of his home. I think it is insane, but it works for their family I guess. I would never consider calling CPS.

 

No one here was even remotely ugly to you.

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This isn't the first time we have had something like this happen with them and have talked with them, but this behavior still continues.

 

If I don't post again on this board, it is because it seems a lot of you aren't very good at being tactful and I am not the first person I have seen you all attack.

 

 

If you're going to report them, report them for *abuse*, if they are abusive. Badly behaved children don't count. Sure, climbing a car is stupid. But kids climb trees and play on jungle gyms--it really isn't any more *dangerous.* And, yeah, they fall off.

 

Some of the neighbor kids make ramps to jump their bikes with--that's a lot more dangerous, but it's not abuse, either to let them do it. I'd even let DS participate. He'd just have to have a helmet. :-) Wrists heal--brains don't.

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I'm sorry you feel "attacked". I did not intend for my post to make you feel that way. That's why I began w/ "is there some other reason?" I honestly do not see a problem w/ an 8 yr. old climbing on the family car, other than feeling sorry for the kid if she dents/ scratches the paint- then I'd be mad (if it were my kid/car). I really, truly, do not see a problem.

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This isn't the first time we have had something like this happen with them and have talked with them, but this behavior still continues.

 

If I don't post again on this board, it is because it seems a lot of you aren't very good at being tactful and I am not the first person I have seen you all attack.

 

I can't speak for others, but I had no intention of attacking or judging (nor do I think anyone else was trying to attack you). I guess I was just surprised and trying to figure out why it might warrant a call to social services.

 

(very gently...) It makes more sense (to me) knowing that this is an ongoing problem. I can understand being frustrated that the neighbors aren't responsive to your concerns. That would bother me were I in your shoes. I still don't think that allowing the little girl to play outside, even on the car where she could fall, would be considered abuse or neglect, which is what motivates social services to get involved.

 

Cat

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Why don't you go over to their house and just tell them? Why does the state have to be involved? I do not understand *at all* your desire to call the state when a simple - "Hey, are you aware your daughter may hurt herself out here?" would do quite well. I am frankly stunned you would even consider it.

 

Wow Kate!? How about this instead?

"I would go over to the house and try to tell them about the situation. They maybe unaware of the child's choice of play space or overwhelmed with something else that is diverting their attention. Offer kindly to help. It's my opinion that the situation as described does not warrent attention from the state. Be a good neighbor, give them the benefit of you neighborliness, and remember everyone of us parents have had one of those moments where we've cannot believe what our kids have managed to get into."

 

I think that says about the same thing but far more gently.

 

My dearest Luanne,

Please don't refuse to post because of one thread's response. I hope you will continue to participate in conversations that you find interesting. This board thrives because all kinds of folks are here to participate. My experience with the WTM boards will be enriched by your involvement.

Fondly resquested by Ms D, who woke up feeling rather formal today.

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Well, I think dancing on cars is immature behavior, but I would see no reason to involve myself. I don't allow children to climb on my cars because they would dent them up. I do allow my kids to climb and play and take risks while playing. It helps to develop their minds and bodies. *shrug*

 

So what's really bothering you, Luanne?

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Heck, if I was the neighbor I'd want YOU to tell me so I could tell me kid to NOT DANCE ON MY CAR!!!!!!!

 

And kids think if their parents do not see them do something like that they won't know about it??? That is what neighbors are for! ;) to snitch on each others kids when we catch them doing something potentially dangerous to themselves or property.

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An 8y/o is old enough to know basic rules and consequences of gravity. If she falls from the car, she will be the one responsible. While the parents need to be aware of what the child is doing, she is really the one who is at fault. Not to mention, calling CPS is a HUGE deal. It's not to be taken lightly and you have to ask yourself if this is the route in which you believe in your heart this should be handled. It doesn't sound abusive--maybe a bit irresponsible or the 'let kids be kids' mentality.

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and badly hurts herself, may I call Social Services on them? When I arrived home from work this evening, I found my neighbor's 8 year old daughter dancing on top of her parent's car. They were no where around (most likely in their house). I have to admit I was very concerned she might fall off and the only thing to catch her would have been concrete and/or pavement. :eek:

 

 

Luanne, I understand your concern. Just this past weekend, I had a troop of girls here playing at my house. After growing tired of a water balloon fight, I suggested they wash my car....which is a Volkswagen Westfalia, meaning it's tall...as in won't make the clearance on some parking garages. Okay, so now I've got my 11 yr. old and a 12 yr. old up on top of my car "washing" the roof (yes, these kids are older than 8). They are wet, and soapy. And, they're a tad crazed by the energy emanating from this gaggle of seven giggling girls all flinging water. Dd 11 can be the most impulsive thing on the planet...so there she is, sliding around, 8' above the blacktop that is my driveway. I can't tell you how my inner red flags go off when I see this. I have a fear of falling (not of heights, mind you! ;)), and I feel it in my gut when I see kids in places where falling is a real possibility. Trees. Roof tops. Ladders. Wet cars. But, all I did was to remind them to keep their wits about them and remember that the car was slippery. The real, gut fear -- I kept that inside.

 

So, had that neighbor girl been MY neighbor girl, I'd simply have said to her, "Honey, you really shouldn't be up there. It's so easy to slip off. And, that driveway underneath you is not going to be nice at all if you land on it face first."

 

Then, I'd walk into my house and let the chips fall where they may.

 

I can also understand why the mere mention of CPS in this situation, without clear evidence in your post that there was any hint of actual abuse/neglect going on, would fan the flames of fury with some. CPS is not the tool to be used for a situation such as the one you described. To boot, with all the FLDS mess going around, people are highly sensitized to the topic of unnecessary govt. involvement our family lives.

 

 

Peace ~

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This isn't the first time we have had something like this happen with them and have talked with them, but this behavior still continues.

 

If I don't post again on this board, it is because it seems a lot of you aren't very good at being tactful and I am not the first person I have seen you all attack.

 

 

 

 

Even if it's "not the first time" it doesn't mean the kid has negligent parents. Some kids are forever doing impulsive things, dangerous things, etc. Maybe she needs help. Maybe she has ADHD or something. Maybe her parents are doing the best they can. You don't call Social Services on people that rashly. You don' t have enough information to judge!

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This isn't the first time we have had something like this happen with them and have talked with them, but this behavior still continues.

 

If I don't post again on this board, it is because it seems a lot of you aren't very good at being tactful and I am not the first person I have seen you all attack.

 

Kate was simply disagreeing with you--there is a difference between being "attacked" and being disagreed with. I rarely see people attacked on this board (there isn't name calling or personal attacks for the most part), even though I've seen plenty of disagreements (many of them quite strong). If you don't like to be disagreed with or if you don't like to see others disagreed with, then I hope you would reevaluate whether or not it's good for you to post here, because I wouldn't want you to feel attacked when there was a disagreement (just to clarify, I'm not being mean or snarky, but this does come out of true concern :grouphug:)

 

About your orignal question, calling CPS is extremely serious and is something done only in the case of real abuse or neglect. A child playing on top of a car is neither, no matter if she falls off or not. If you've talked with the parents before about this type of behavior that you don't think should be occurring, and they aren't responsive, you might just need to accept the fact you have 2 different parenting styles and they will probably not respond to any warnings.

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I don't see anything abnormally dangerous about it. A car is not that high. I think it's a difference in parenting standards only. Some parents are more comfortable with some level of risk than others. They balance out a child's need to explore and experiment and decide that is more important than keeping them injury-free. There are benefits to the ability to explore and experiment as well.

 

I would not even speak to the parents about it. I think the behavior is fine.

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I don't see anything abnormally dangerous about it. A car is not that high. I think it's a difference in parenting standards only. Some parents are more comfortable with some level of risk than others. They balance out a child's need to explore and experiment and decide that is more important than keeping them injury-free. There are benefits to the ability to explore and experiment as well.

 

 

I would like to gently add that for those of us who do parent this way, the op's suggestion of calling social services felt very judgemental and condemning.

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While I can completely understand your concern and we don't really know the details about what happened in the past calling social services seems to be too harsh. I would seriously have to call social services regarding half the families on my street for doing things like letting a 3 year old play in the front yard unattended, letting a 7 year old play with a pocketknife, letting a 14 year old from the same family throw his large pocketknife up into the air to see where it falls when a group of young children is around. Of course these things upset me and if I see dangerous behavior I might say something to the child. In your case I would mention something to the child about it being dangerous and might mention it to the parents next time they were outside. In my experience though the parents usually have an attitude of "kids will be kids".

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This isn't the first time we have had something like this happen with them and have talked with them, but this behavior still continues.

 

Excuse me if I come across as tactless. This is a pet peeve of mine.

 

As the mother of an impulsive, slippery child who doesn't think before he does something -- except about how to do it without letting me know -- I beg you not to call CPS on them. They are probably doing the best they can with an amazingly creative but typically childish little girl. If someone saw my son doing something that dangerous, I hope they would at least attempt a, "Hey, that's not safe!" to stop him, and then find me to let me know. When I moved in, I made sure my neighbors had my name and phone number, and I attempt to talk to the neighbors I see when I see them.

 

Someone recently called CPS and reported that my kids were playing in the street with a ball a block from our home with no parent present. My kids weren't home the day this supposedly occurred -- it was not them. Still, my first thought was that if you see a kid doing something dangerous, shouldn't you tell them to stop? If you believe their life is in danger, isn't the obvious choice of action to save it?

 

As one of the youngest moms here, I was a kid in the eighties, and even at that modern date parents in our neighborhood communicated with each other first about what bad things their kids did. That sense of community is totally non-existent in the neighborhoods I'm familiar with now; people call CPS or the police on each other as a first course of action, before even talking.

 

There's nothing wrong with neighbors helping each other keep the neighborhood safe. It's not communist or crossing boundaries or being forced to take responsibility for other people's problems. It's community, just good old-fashioned etiquette of existing in the same physical space as someone else.

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I would like to gently add that for those of us who do parent this way, the op's suggestion of calling social services felt very judgemental and condemning.

 

As a person who does allow a large amount of risk-taking, I agree. I would disagree however about not talking to the parents.

 

In an ideal world, if someone was truly concerned with my child's safety, they'd seek me out to let me something "unsafe" was going on, and then listen open-minded as I explain my rules and boundaries, so we could go on being understanding of each other as members in the same community. Even if they continued to disagree about what's safe, at least then they'd know I'm not neglecting it out of laziness or lack of care for my child. . . . in an ideal world.

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I have not read the other responses, but if you call CPS, you might want to call them on me. I have pictures of my youngest sitting on top of my van when he was 5. Not unattended, but still, he was definitely on top of my van.

 

And now he is 8. And he goes next door without me and he plays in the backyard without me and sometimes he climbs the cherry trees without me.

 

Come to think of it, my neighbors' kids are 5 and 8 and they come to my house unattended and climb the cherry trees with my kids and they have probably been on top of someone's vehicle at one time or another.

 

If you feel the girl is in danger, why not say something to her yourself. Once I found our neighbor's 5 year old crossing our very busy road. I ran to the front of my yard and put on my scary mommy voice, pointed my finger at him and said "Don't you move an inch!" Then when I got a break in the traffic I crossed the road, held his hand and got him back across, walked him to his yard and said sternly, "Now go in there and tell your mother where I found you." He started crying as he walked to his door. Poor guy. He was grounded from playing outside for a couple of days. But we watch out for each others' kids. That's what neighbors do.

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I've done my share of talking to parents: Um did you know x was on the roof? Or Did you know that X had a party while you were away?

 

The car thing for an 8 year old wouldn't even hit my radar as any of my business. It doesn't strike me as abnormally dangerous in the least at that age. Heck, lots of things are dangerous. Riding a bike with a helmet is dangerous. Skateboarding with helmet and knee and elbow guards is dangerous. Climbing trees is dangerous. All of those are at least as dangerous as dancing on a car, but are considered normal childhood activities. Since I see it as no problem, I wouldn't talk to the neighbor, nor would I wouldn't advise anyone else to go raise an issue about it either. I thought the OP was asking for advice as to how serious others saw the issue. I don't see it as serious enough to talk to anyone about.

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I don't see anything abnormally dangerous about it. A car is not that high. I think it's a difference in parenting standards only. Some parents are more comfortable with some level of risk than others. They balance out a child's need to explore and experiment and decide that is more important than keeping them injury-free. There are benefits to the ability to explore and experiment as well.

 

I would like to gently add that for those of us who do parent this way, the op's suggestion of calling social services felt very judgemental and condemning.

 

:iagree:

 

And for the record, my *3yo* fell out of the back of a pick-up truck onto the concrete driveway yesterday. He's fine and I think he's learned his lesson. I can't tell you how many times he's been disciplined for climbing into the truck bed, but he seems to be a kid who has to learn for himself.

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for folks who disagree. Please if you wish to leave little red squares have the courage to either sign your name or post in public. I don't leave any rep with a signature and I sign my post even if I disagree with the original poster.

 

And yes, Kate was being rude. I disagree with her choice of words and left an alternative way of saying exactly the same thing.

 

In my opinion, there are folks here who are behaving badly and I am not one of them.

 

 

I must politely disagree with you. I don't think a difference of opinion is the same thing as being rude. I don't see anything wrong with her choice of words at all.

 

Kate has a long posting history on these boards and if people were going to describe her internet communication style I don't think rude would be on the list of adjectives that they would apply. I don't think any of Kate's posts in this thread were rude, either.

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If they are driving the car at the time, sure.

 

:lol:

 

Yes, even I would call CPS for that one!!

 

 

 

Although, there have been times when my kids were loud and obnoxious in the vehicle and I threatened to stop and strap them to the luggage rack if they did not calm down. I've never done it, but I have threatened it.

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Kelli, I want this so bad for my neighborhood that I could cry reading your post. I am so glad to know that people still know how to be neighbors, somewhere.

 

You know, it is really just the next door neighbors we have this with. And we totally ignored each other for the first year they lived here because we were mad that they would not control their large, agressive dog and keep him out of our yard. He kept attacking my little sheltie and it made me so mad, we would take him home over and over again and he would tunnel under our fence and go after our dog again.

 

They finally realized he was a bad choice of pet and found him a country home and got a sheltie of their own. (which they let run wild, but at least she's friendly) When our house was burning I simply had to have someplace safe to stick my kids while we dealt with the yardful of firetrucks so I took a chance and knocked on their door and it's been good ever since.

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Although, there have been times when my kids were loud and obnoxious in the vehicle and I threatened to stop and strap them to the luggage rack if they did not calm down. I've never done it, but I have threatened it.

 

Don't try it - my kids would take me up on the offer. Or better yet...

 

Originally Posted by Cadam viewpost.gif

If they are driving the car at the time, sure.

 

 

My four year old actually proposed recently that I let him ride his skateboard while holding on to a rope attached to the back of our moving car. I remember one day while driving that he became very upset that I wouldn't let him out so he could run alongside us on a busy 50mph state highway. "I'll run fast, Mama, I promise!!" :001_huh:

 

That boy is going to make me old, I tell ya!

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for folks who disagree. Please if you wish to leave little red squares have the courage to either sign your name or post in public. I don't leave any rep with a signature and I sign my post even if I disagree with the original poster.

 

And yes, Kate was being rude. I disagree with her choice of words and left an alternative way of saying exactly the same thing.

 

In my opinion, there are folks here who are behaving badly and I am not one of them.

 

I don't think either of you were rude. Nor have I seen anybody publicly behaving badly. The op did sting for some of us, and Kate was just expressing her honest response. I do think it is reasonable for you to suggest gentler wording, but I believe grace could be applied to all sides.

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because my intent is not to attack you. Your question struck me as so outlandish that I thought that surely you must be joking. As in, it didn't even cross my mind that it was a serious question until I started reading the responses. Once I did, I was just as alarmed as everyone else.

 

I did see where you said that this was not the first incidence but if the other incidences were anything like this one I would say that perhaps you are trying to parent her child by your standards and it is not your place to do that. I would not consider this behavior neglectful nor do I think that most American would. I believe that most Americans would consider neglect to be not feeding, clothing, housing or caring for your child or insuring that these things are done if you can't afford to do it yourself. Perhaps (shadowy territory here) leaving your child unattended at too young an age or for too long a period of time. Abuse would be much more serious than that. Now obviously these things can be and are debated but the example you gave does not even come close. Calling CPS would be drastic and would definitely be more dangerous and damaging, for both the family and the little girl, than the situation as it currently exists.

 

It seems to me that there may be some reason that this situation is bothering you and I would encourage you to look inside yourself and try to figure out what that reason might be. If I was your neighbor and you had said something to me about behavior like this more than once, I would be seriously annoyed with you but I would also refrain from telling you to mind your own business as apparently your neighbor has done. This would be akin to her coming over and telling you that she really thinks that you ought to put your dc in school. Imgine how that would make you feel especially if you thought that she was considering calling CPS because she disagreed with your choices.

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Mrs. D,

 

I meant no ill will towards Luanne. I was writing out of stunned shock that she would consider calling CPS and fear for the neighbor family that she might do so for an overly active child. It seems as though there is a longer history with the neighbor family than she originally posted, but we have yet to hear of anything remotely CPS-worthy.

 

While I strongly disagreed with her, I chose my words with care. It is possible to strongly disagree and still post without malice or even anger. I was in no manner angry or upset - just shocked.

 

CPS is not the answer many think it is. Just because they are *there* does not mean they should be used as the child police. There should be serious, ongoing, visible abuse before such a step is taken. Playing on a car is not abuse. I know the absolute wreck a misplaced CPS call can do to a family. I have seen it happen and I will not apologize for trying to prevent it.

 

FWIW, I have never left anyone negative rep. If you got some, it did not come from me.

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I just read some of these posts. I don't think Kate said anything wrong. I don't understand why people seem to want to get the state involved in everything now a days. Please, just go to the parents.

My ds just told me about a man who gave his son lemonade at a sports game. I think it is called hard lemonade??? Anyway, someone of authority came up to him and asked him if he knew alcohol was in there. He did not. Now he has to fight to get his son out of foster care. This is ridiculous...I would have never known there was alcohol in it either....why put alcohol in lemonade at a sports game????

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FYI

This is copied from a post by SWB. There is apparently a reason for allowing anon. neg reps. I wasn't the one who left it either.

 

I don't know whether it's possible to make the rep system completely "non anonymous," but I will say this: If you want to give feedback to someone who's generally hostile and combatative, you probably won't do it if you think they're going to then blast you on the forums. There are pros as well as cons to anonymity, and the board moderators do keep an eye on frivolous negative repping. If someone's doing it, they hear from us.

 

And on that topic: As far as the board rules go...discussing rep points is not against the rules. Getting on the boards and announcing that someone who gave you a negative rep is an idiot IS. For clarification, we've added the following to the board rules...hope that helps.

 

SWB

 

A Note about Reputation Points

We may remove inappropriate, unnecessarily hostile, or random negative points. We leave the others. You, the community, have the right to react to each other.

The reputation points are a way for you, the members of this forum, to shape your own community. Receiving a negative rep means that you have offended another member. You have two choices: Alter your style of expression (that's the "shaping the community" part) or ignore the rep points. Complaining repeatedly about the use of rep points is not appropriate.

 

If you like someone's comments, give them a positive rep. If someone is hostile, abusive, or calls names, give them a negative rep. If you get one of the above, decide whether you're going to pay attention to it or not. Please do NOT post endlessly about how persecuted you are by the rep system.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last edited by Susan Wise Bauer : 04-17-2008 at 11:50 AM.

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I just read some of these posts. I don't think Kate said anything wrong. I don't understand why people seem to want to get the state involved in everything now a days. Please, just go to the parents.

My ds just told me about a man who gave his son lemonade at a sports game. I think it is called hard lemonade??? Anyway, someone of authority came up to him and asked him if he knew alcohol was in there. He did not. Now he has to fight to get his son out of foster care. This is ridiculous...I would have never known there was alcohol in it either....why put alcohol in lemonade at a sports game????

 

He bought a Mike's Hard Lemonade and gave it to his son. They took the child for 48 hours, but he's back home. It was at a professional Detroit baseball game, and alcohol is regularly sold there..

 

I agree it was insane. The father had never heard of Mike's, and thought he was simply buying his kid a lemonade.

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:lol:Although, there have been times when my kids were loud and obnoxious in the vehicle and I threatened to stop and strap them to the luggage rack if they did not calm down. I've never done it, but I have threatened it.

 

Do you know that one time Ruth Bell Graham's kids were acting up in the car, and she made at least one of them ride in the trunk for the rest of the trip?

 

:lol:

 

Not that I would condone that sort of thing. But it cracks me up that she did it.

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