TOG Rhetoric Lit...need help

[sandra in va]

We've been using TOG this year and my D level students, currently 7th and 9th grades, have done well with the history. They read the D level lit, but we're using LL LOTR for their main literature course (which we've been loving!). Next year my oldest will move into R level and to be honest, the TOG rhetoric lit scares me. I read through it and I immediately feel overwhelmed (esp. as my background is more math/sci).

 

Next year my 8th grader will probably do a LL course to supplement the D lit. I've been researching other options for my rising 10th grader. Here are some of them: doing only TOG history and adding in another lit (like LL), signing her up the online LLC TOG lit rhetoric discussions, or trying to do it on my own using the TOG rhetoric lit guidelines for cutting back.

 

It seems that if I've already purchased TOG, it would be best to use their rhetoric lit. It really does look amazing...it just scares me! I'm also concerned since I am teaching many other levels, with a toddler in tow. I don't want a big drain on my time (discussions are fine, but the prep work is a concern).

 

Any suggestions or thoughts as I start planning out next year? Do any other TOG users out there do something else for lit?

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited February 2, 2011 by sandra in va

[Karenciavo]

Next year you are doing Year 3? Do you have it yet? TOG Year 2 literature is the most difficult in my opinion. If you haven't seen Year 3 yet I would encourage you to look it over before making any decisions.

 

ETA: My son isn't done with breakfast yet so I'll chime back in.:D

 

My oldest used TOG rhetoric lit as written for Years 2 & 3; he used Omnibus I for Year 1 and Memoria Press online academy for Year 4. He is very word focused and TOG was a bear Year 2 for us both, Year 3 was such a lighter load after Year 2 or at least it seemed to be. Most books were easily understood which was sometimes half the battle. We moved on to the Memoria Press online academy because it was a 20th century lit course taught by Matin Cothran and I wanted my son to have the benefit of discussing lit with someone other than me. That Memoria Press course was tougher than TOG year 4 as far as material is concerned.

 

I really like the Year 3 lit included in TOG and I didn't feel like I was burdened preparing for our weekly discussions. Some of the books I had already read, I read a few of them myself, and the rest I depended on the teacher's notes. I know it's a lot of printing, but I suggest printing the Frameworks and Poetics, it helped me to be able to flip through those documents on paper, to make notes, highlight, etc. I would also recommend reading Words of Delight by Leland Ryken. If all else fails you can use the Learning Center or maybe you choose to use it for your daughter's benefit of having discussion with other students.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Karenciavo

[sandra in va]

Thanks, Karen. I've heard that Marcia said year 3 is the best to start rhetoric lit since it is easier. Could you tell me how a generic lit week is structured in your house? What do you have your students do, besides reading the book?

[Karenciavo]

We start our week on Friday so they can read their literature over the weekend. Friday is read over the student activity pages including the introduction and questions, make literary term cards, read Frameworks and Poetics if assigned, read book. Questions are answered as soon as my child is able, sometimes I cross some questions out although we will discuss them. Weekly discussion is on Wednesday because we have a TOG co-op on Thursday.

[sandra in va]

Thanks for taking the time to describe your week...it helped. I also spent some time on your blog (yet again!).

 

I'd love to hear from others, as well... :)

[jewel7123]

I've heard that Marcia said year 3 is the best to start rhetoric lit since it is easier.

 

Not to hijack, but I'm just curious, if you were starting with TOG from the beginning and planning how you would do your cycle, would you suggest:

 

1. starting Ancients in 1st and following the cycle which would put you in Ancient again in 9th. with this scenario would you suggest keeping your child in D level for Year 1 (9th) and Year 2 (10th) and then moving up to R the last two years?

 

OR

 

2. Should I plan our cycle to where each of my children does year 3 for 9th, Year 4 for 10th, Year 1 for 11th and Year 2 for 12th? Each of my children are two grade levels apart, so I'd really have to think this through to see how it would work.

 

Curious to hear thoughts from someone who's already in R level.

[PeterPan]

Not to hijack, but I'm just curious, if you were starting with TOG from the beginning and planning how you would do your cycle, would you suggest:

 

1. starting Ancients in 1st and following the cycle which would put you in Ancient again in 9th. with this scenario would you suggest keeping your child in D level for Year 1 (9th) and Year 2 (10th) and then moving up to R the last two years?

 

OR

 

2. Should I plan our cycle to where each of my children does year 3 for 9th, Year 4 for 10th, Year 1 for 11th and Year 2 for 12th? Each of my children are two grade levels apart, so I'd really have to think this through to see how it would work.

 

Curious to hear thoughts from someone who's already in R level.

 

Jewel, I was reading this thread, because I've been considering TOG for next year at the R level, and I just wanted to toss out my to cents on your question. In your shoes, I wouldn't plan on buying TOG now and using it all the way through. We tend to get WAY too bored with curriculum to use one thing that long! You're likely to have grass is greener syndrome strike many times. With those ages and that spread you would be a terrific candidate over the next few years for WP AS1 and 2, MFW ECC, Christian Cottage (any of their units), SOTW (of course!), SL 1 and 2 with CHOW or SOTW, and so on. There are SO many nice, hands-on, super easy to implement (and less expensive!) programs for early elementary. Don't spend your money on curriculum. Spend it on BOOKS and the FUN THINGS. Your kids, 5 years from now, won't care what curriculum you used, but they will care how much fun they had. That's what builds the memories.

 

For these ages you really just need a spine, some hands-on ideas, and a library card.

 

For when they each hit x point in the cycle, that doesn't matter either. They'll go with the flow. Their thought process will change, and you will up the ante on how they interact with the material, irrespective of what they're covering. (You don't have to start R level thinking at year 1 of the cycle, hehe.)

 

Now could I also suggest, if you're feeling busy and want lots of helps, the VP self-paced online courses? They lead fabulously into upper level study, take nothing for you to implement, are crazy fun, and have great retention.

 

Well that's just a word to the wise for today. :)

[jewel7123]

Thank you for the suggestion, but the deed is done. :D I've already purchased TOG years 1-3 in print (USED!) , so I'm in this for the long haul. I realize it's overkill for 1st grade, but I'm going to self educate myself this first history cycle so I feel it's going to benefit me in the long run to start now.

[PeterPan]

Sounds like a deal to me! I would have been hard-pressed to pass that up either. :)

[choirfarm]

I did Year 3 rhetoric last year with my then 9th grade boy and dialectic, sort of with my 7th grade boy. Sometimes I had them read the same thing. I also changed things. For example, I've never read Great Expectations, but LOVE A Tale of Two Cities. Plus, I've taught A Tale of Two Cities, so I did that with both of them. Basically, I had him read the poetics and frameworks. (I strongly suggest you read them as well since you don't have an English background. Or read them together and discuss it together.) He had to do vocabulary cards. He had to read the assignment. I did give him a copy of the questions but did not require him to answer them. Instead, we did them together during our discussion time. Do not be afraid to cut, either. They give you suggestions to do only part of the literature if you wish. OR you can do some rhetoric assignments and some dialectic literature assignments. For example, this year in year 4 I did Lord of the Flies and Our Town as I felt that they were worthy of high school level reading, especially for a 9th or 10th grader. I would give you an example of what I did last year for year 3 but I cannot remember. Anyway, that is how I handled rhetoric last year. This year, for 10th I am having him try to answer the question or I've actually taught many of the works this year, so he does some of the assignments I did with my students.

 

Christine

[Janis in DE]

We have been doing TOG for 6 years. Next year will be our first with Rhetoric. I plan to do R for Literature and D for History. Ease us both into Rhetoric. We will be doing Year 4. I'm a little intimidated too, but plan to learn right along with my daughter. Of course, I don't have younger ones tagging along. (only my grandchildren 3 days a week) I do plan to read as many of the books that I can over the summer. I've been doing this for a few years. The one thing I love about TOG is the discussion outlines. Without this I would be lost at teaching Literature.

Janis in DE

[sandra in va]

Basically, I had him read the poetics and frameworks. (I strongly suggest you read them as well since you don't have an English background. Or read them together and discuss it together.) He had to do vocabulary cards. He had to read the assignment. I did give him a copy of the questions but did not require him to answer them. Instead, we did them together during our discussion time. Do not be afraid to cut, either.

 

Christine

 

 

That was very helpful, thanks!

 

Janis in DE - I agree about the discussion outlines...that's why I feel like I want to give the rhetoric lit a try even though it's intimidating. Hope your next year goes well!