High School Greek

[Melissa in CA]

My ds is very much wanting to learn Koine Greek. Would you consider Elementary Greek by Christine Gatchell OK for high school credit? I have Year one and really like the lay-out. If not, do you have a recommendation?

[Hunter]

I think Hey Andrew is based on Machen. My son and I went from workbooks 3 and 4 right into Machen having covered EXACTLY the first couple chapters.

 

I have tried Mounce several times, using different editions...and...I just don't get it's popularity :-0

 

ANY Koine curriculum you make progress with is High School level Greek. 1 elementary level workbook might be 1/4 or 1/2 a high school credit, but just use what WORKS!

[Melissa in CA]

1 elementary level workbook might be 1/4 or 1/2 a high school credit, but just use what WORKS!

 

 

That's kind of what I was thinking, that perhaps each book would be worth 1/2 a credit or so.

[Karenciavo]

I think you would need to do at least two levels for high school credit, plus added reading and translation. We finished EG 3 two or three years ago. EG Greek seems to be based on Machen, if you completed all three levels I think you'd be about 2/3 of the way through Machen.

 

You could use Machen.

[Melissa in CA]

Are there answer keys, workbooks, etc. for Machen? I don't see anything offered online. Am I just not looking in the right place? I do NOT know Greek and the only way I can grade this is with some form of answer key.

 

Those who use Machen, what exactly do you use? I see a lot of Mounce books and helps available on Amazon.

 

I don't want to get anything overly overwhelming. Right now he is excited to learn and is finding it fun, bog him down and he might revolt. :tongue_smilie:

[forty-two]

I think you would need to do at least two levels for high school credit, plus added reading and translation. We finished EG 3 two or three years ago. EG Greek seems to be based on Machen, if you completed all three levels I think you'd be about 2/3 of the way through Machen.

 

You could use Machen.

Looking at syllabi for college Greek courses that use Machen, it looks like Machen is usually done over 2 semesters (I just googled Machen greek syllabus, and came up with several). My understanding is that one college semester course equals one high school year-long course, so if completing EG 1-3 is equivalent to 2/3 of Machen (which you can probably confirm by comparing ToCs), then you could probably give either one credit for all three EG books (which undercuts a bit), or give a 1/2 credit for each book (which overestimates a bit).

[ChemMommy]

We did EG I, II and part of III, counting it for a year of Greek. We have now started Mounce. Ds is half way through Mounce and has just now hit some difficulties, so I think EG did a good job preparing him.

 

Ds has done Greek totally on his own and EG really does not require any parent help, at least with an older child.

 

Mounce has a LOT of resources to help you: workbook, CD lectures, pronounciation CDs, quizzing resources. That's why I went with it.

 

Now, we are up to the parsing/translating and he is a bit stuck. I may add "Learn to Read New Testament Greek" or high a college student to come and help him a bit over this hurdle.

 

HTH!

[Alphabetika]

My dd12 is using Elementary Greek in preparation for taking high school Greek at Lukeion.org, where the teacher uses Athenaze. It's hard for me to imagine giving high school credit for EG unless it was, like other posters have said, one credit for all three books. I don't really have a reference point for this, though, except from when my oldest dd took Latin with Lukeion and got two credits for doing the whole Wheelock's book over two years. The amount of work she did for each credit, versus what my middle dd is doing for EG....well, there's no comparison. However, if Lukeion Greek is like the Latin, in that it assumes no prior Greek knowledge, then she'll probably start the high school level from the same point she started EG, if that makes any sense. I think they'll just go much deeper and at a much quicker pace, so that by the time she has earned her first credit she will have done tons more than she would have done by doing EG 1 - 3, especially in the amount of translation.

[Hunter]

In my opinion a high school credit is what they KNOW, not what BOOK they used.

 

All the answer keys and supports I have are for the 1st edition of Machen. I don't like the 2nd edition as much, and it doesn't have an answer key, that I know of.

 

I don't like Athenaze for self study. It's more immersion and I don't do well with that method as CORE texts. I like Athenaze for a little supplemental reading though.

 

Mounce is...I don't know what to say :-0

 

Yes, some private schools cover all of Wheelok in 2 years...but I have NEVER heard of a PS accomplishing that. It is FINE to call the equivalent of Wheelock, 3 years of foreign language.

 

My son and I never completed the equivalent of Wheelock in Greek. There just were not the available homeschooling texts available to accomplish the task.

 

My preference of texts was Hey Andrew followed by 1st edition Machen, supplemented with Ted Hildebrandts software and some supplental reading with Dobson, Athenaze and some other texts we accumulated over the years.

 

If I seriously start Greek again I will take a long look at Elementary Greek.

[christineg]

I just thought I'd chime in with my thoughts about high school credit for EG. I get asked this question frequently, although there isn't really a clear cut answer. EG covers a little more than half of the content of Machen or Mounce (being more closely aligned with Machen's TOC), but requires a lot less work. The grammar is there, but the ways the student is asked to apply the grammar is more simplistic than you'll see in typical high school/college level texts. While I feel it would be technically acceptable to give one credit for the 3 levels of EG, I think the course would better reflect high school level work with some additional translation. I typically recommend JACT's Reader in New Testament Greek. It is easily accessible to a student who has completed at least half of EG.

 

Christine Gatchell

[Alphabetika]

Christine,

 

Thank you so much for chiming in. Though my dd is not in high school yet, she is using EG as a preparation for studying high school Greek and she loves it! We recommend it to people all the time.

[CherylG]

http://www.clrchomeschool.com/

but I got him Aeschylus in Greek and he wasn't having that hard of a time reading it.

 

We are now going to be switching to the NA27 New testament. Hopefully, the NT Greek won't be that hard of a transition for him. I'll let you know.

Cheryl

[Melissa in CA]

I just thought I'd chime in with my thoughts about high school credit for EG. I get asked this question frequently, although there isn't really a clear cut answer. EG covers a little more than half of the content of Machen or Mounce (being more closely aligned with Machen's TOC), but requires a lot less work. The grammar is there, but the ways the student is asked to apply the grammar is more simplistic than you'll see in typical high school/college level texts. While I feel it would be technically acceptable to give one credit for the 3 levels of EG, I think the course would better reflect high school level work with some additional translation. I typically recommend JACT's Reader in New Testament Greek. It is easily accessible to a student who has completed at least half of EG.

 

Christine Gatchell

 

Thank you! I love when authors respond! :D

 

Would it be possible to use EG and Machen together, do you think? Perhaps using EG to get some grounding/initial teaching, and then jump into Machen for a while to dig deeper into the grammar, and then back to EG for more initial slower paced teaching? Having never seen Machen, I really have no clue if that is even something I would want to do. I just hate for my ds to do three levels of EG, which could very well take him three years with all of his other required subjects, and only get one credit in Greek.

 

As a side note: According to our ps system here, 180 hours of work is considered one hs credit...it doesn't seem to matter how difficult the text is as long as it isn't more than 3 years below grade level. (which is sad and may explain some of the education problems here in California)

 

Anyhow, just trying to figure it all out. For now he will continue in EG and when he gets into 9th next year I suppose I will rethink things? :confused:

[ChemMommy]

I typically recommend JACT's Reader in New Testament Greek. It is easily accessible to a student who has completed at least half of EG.

 

Christine Gatchell

 

My son loved EG and learned a ton from it! Mounce has been easy for him so far. Now he's stuck with the translation part. So, what is the text/book your referred to above, please???????

[christineg]

I'd never thought of using EG and Machen concurrently, though I can see how it could work well. The chapters line up easily, and Machen would provide extra translation practice and give a bit more depth to some of the grammar. The main problem I see with this is price, unless you could find a used copy of Machen inexpensively somewhere. The current edition is pricey, and if you don't know Greek yourself, you'd probably want to get a study guide with an answer key. http://www.amazon.com/Testament-Greek-Beginnings-David-Thompson/dp/0024206504/ref=pd_sim_b_4 (This study guide is not pretty to look at, but it is really a wealth of information, and provides answers for all the translation exercises.)

 

If you are hoping to complete two years of high school Greek, you could finish Machen's book for the second year. On the other hand, if you are only aiming for one year of Greek, then I would actually stand by my first recommendation, which is to simply add in translation exercises with a book such as this:

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Greek-Reader-Reading/dp/0521654475/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296707682&sr=1-10#_

 

You could also use Mounce's book concurrently with EG, though I like to warn people that Mounce and I take slightly different approaches to declining the noun, which could lead to some confusion. You would find that chapters don't line up perfectly, but it could still work. Mounce's materials come with so many helps, including answer keys and a CD.

 

(Pam, the link above is for the JACT book. I think you could use Mounce's book for grammar instruction, parsing, and other exercises, but just replace his translation exercises with these, if they seem to work better)

[Hunter]

The Thompson key is for 1st edition Machen. Be careful! I paid $50.00 for my copy of 1st edition Machen and dragged it on the bus to another state with me when fleeing my stalker and going homeless for the second time. Yup showed up at the shelter with it and just a few page from the Thompson key and a little pamphlet key I have from another author. I'd already lost all my Greek books the 1st time I went homeless and knew not to let go of my 1st edition Machen the second time around.

 

Are there any plans to write more volumes of EG?

Edited February 3, 2011 by Hunter

[christineg]

Thanks for clarifying that. I haven't actually seen the second edition of Machen, so I didn't know that they wouldn't work together. Are the exercises different in the second edition, then? I guess I should pick up a copy and check it out, since I do always recommend Machen as a possible follow-up to EG.

 

And I'll be sure to take extra special care of my own dog-eared first edition. I'm the third owner (at least) of it already, and the spine is showing its age.

 

No plans to write more levels of EG. If I could do anything, I'd love to write some sort of readers to go along with EG. Unfortunately, even that is more than I can commit to right now.

[Karenciavo]

 

This site may be helpful for those interested in Machen.

[ChemMommy]

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Greek-Reader-Reading/dp/0521654475/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296707682&sr=1-10#_

 

You could also use Mounce's book concurrently with EG, though I like to warn people that Mounce and I take slightly different approaches to declining the noun, which could lead to some confusion. You would find that chapters don't line up perfectly, but it could still work. Mounce's materials come with so many helps, including answer keys and a CD.

 

(Pam, the link above is for the JACT book. I think you could use Mounce's book for grammar instruction, parsing, and other exercises, but just replace his translation exercises with these, if they seem to work better)

 

THANK YOU for the recommendation!

[Hunter]

Christine, I have not seen edition 2 in years, but I remember being very disappointed in it. The author who made the changes makes several promises that conflict with each other and that he does not accomplish :-0 He just made a muddy mess of the revision. I would definitely recommend taking a LONG look and maybe working with it a bit, before recommending it.

 

Karen, thanks for the link, the book must be back in public domain again. That was weird how a few books were PD and then reverted back, when the laws changed :-0 I know lots of people have been waiting for Machen to get back into PD, especially ones that HATE the revision.

[angela in ohio]

My dc are all doing Elementary Grammar. The girls are finishing the second level. I would think levels 1-3 would be a high school credit. Later, we plan to use these lectures from Sermonaudio.com with Mounce, after they are done with Wheelock's.

[christineg]

For anyone interested in using Machen, the link that Karen gave is really nice. It has a free pdf of Machen's book, which, if nothing else, let's you have a good look to see if it would work for you.

 

Melissa, you said that you didn't want to overwhelm your son and squelch his growing interest in Greek. Machen's book is old, and the layout alone shows its age. That may be a deterrent to your son. However, sometimes kids surprise us. My daughter, who only tolerated Greek while she was using EG (I know--the nerve!), absolutely loves my crumbling copy of Machen. Greek is now her favorite subject.

[Hunter]

Like Saxon, people either hate or love Machen. Machen is old school and old school is what works for ME when it comes to classical languages.

 

I find that textmapping works great with old school PDFs.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Hunter

[Gratia271]

http://www.clrchomeschool.com/

but I got him Aeschylus in Greek and he wasn't having that hard of a time reading it.

 

We are now going to be switching to the NA27 New testament. Hopefully, the NT Greek won't be that hard of a transition for him. I'll let you know.

Cheryl

 

We also use an online class, Lukeion, which like the one listed above uses Athenaze materials.

[Melissa in CA]

Has anyone seen this course? http://www.nbcbible.org/bookstore/videocourses/fullcourse/fullcoursevideo.htm It can be used with the 1st or 2nd edition of Machen.

 

I wish I could see a sample video. I have a feeling it's more college level, than high school, but I'm thinking one could take their time with it. :confused:

[Melissa in CA]

Melissa, you said that you didn't want to overwhelm your son and squelch his growing interest in Greek. Machen's book is old, and the layout alone shows its age. That may be a deterrent to your son. However, sometimes kids surprise us. My daughter, who only tolerated Greek while she was using EG (I know--the nerve!), absolutely loves my crumbling copy of Machen. Greek is now her favorite subject.

 

Yes, you are right, my son often surprises me! Just his interest in Greek is surprising. I can't tell you how often we tried Latin. He was NOT interested. With Greek, which I tried to dissuade him from because I thought if he didn't like Latin he would never like Greek, he looks forward to each assignment and does his work first thing. He is enjoying the challenge. I guess I am somewhat worried that that might dwindle if it gets overly confusing or difficult. :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm also finding it extremely hard to find a copy of Machen 1st ed. You can buy Mounce all the live long day...:glare:

[4Hisglory]

I did not read all of the posts but wanted to throw my hat in. We used Elementary Greek 1 + 2 and then did Homeschool Greek by the Bluedorns. My daughter was able to roll right into it after EG 1+2 and when she was finished I counted it as 1.5 credits of Koine Greek.

Homeschool Greek is written as a self-directed study and can be time consuming. My daughter can apply what she has learned from it.

[Hunter]

I had the course before I lost everything in the divorce. The course uses modern pronunciation and the videos are from at least a couple decades ago I think. If you are using modern pronunciation, it is an excellent course.

[Kareni]

Just for your information: Those of you who are or have a child studying Greek might be interested in knowing about this site which was recommended by my daughter's Greek teacher. It's hosted by Eton.

 

Review site for Ancient Greek

 

My daughter found the Vocabulary Tester to be particularly helpful. She took an out of the home course in Ancient Greek using the text Thrasymachus: Greek Through Reading by Peckett and Munday and enjoyed it very much. I believe it is a secular program.

 

In doing some searching (for the purpose of writing a course description), I stumbled upon the following site which might be of interest:

 

ANCIENT GREEK WITH Thrasymachus

 

I've no first hand knowledge of this book, but it looks intriguing: Ancient Greek Alive by Paula Saffire

 

Regards,

Kareni

Edited February 5, 2011 by Kareni

[Laura Brooks]

I used the first two EG texts with my boys when they were younger (2nd, 3rd, 4th grade.) Alas, when we got to year three, we discovered the brand new textbook we had purchased was missing the first 24 pages. I wrote to the company, but never received a response. In the meantime, we discovered First Form Greek through Memoria Press, which both boys took this year (grades 5 and 8.) We were happy with the class, which is advertised as being worth one high school credit. The only drawback is that MP does NOT offer year two of Greek.

I recently discovered that The Potter's School offers three years of Greek, and the teacher uses Machen. It is even more aggressive than Memoria Press, so I wish I had discovered them sooner. He makes it almost all the way through Machen in one year. I'd have the boys take this class in a heartbeat if it was offered at a reasonable time for west coast time zones. For some reason when I suggested a 4am class an insurrection ensued. If anyone knows of an online seminary or college course using Machen, I'm looking :)