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Grammar - what if you don't get it?


Wee Pip
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Confession.

(low whisper) I don't understand my 5th grader's grammar book.

There. I said it. And I feel like a moron. I keep looking up terms online, and then think, "oh, now I've got it", but then see the next example and say, "or maybe I don't get it afterall".

When it was just noun, verb, adjective, and adverbs, life was much simpler.

Sigh.

We've officially ditched grammar this year (we're having an off year). But I am contemplating next year, which hopefully will go better. I'm not even sure I want to teach grammar anymore. It is beyond me. We were using BJU, but since I'm still not grasping grammar after looking things up online, I'm thinking it isn't just the curriculum.

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Read Grammar Land by M.L. Nesbitt. We do worksheets to go along with it, but you can just read it (you alone or with dd). My son was actually worried we were going to stop doing Grammar Land when I mentioned another Lang. Arts program. "No, honey......don't worry." He really likes the story and is learning grammar.

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If you really feel strongly that you aren't comfortable with it, perhaps you could get an outside tutor to come in, and you could sit in on the lesson if you wanted, or just rely on the tutor.

 

I just recently received The First Whole Book of Diagrams. I don't know how you feel about diagramming, but it's seems to be a pretty handy resource. It starts with simple, two work, noun/verb sentences and then builds one part of speech at a time. The teacher's manual explains the part of speech, and then the diagrams on the corresponding pages show how they fit into the sentece.

 

There is some debate on a couple of other threads about diagramming at all, so I don't know how you feel about that, but it's just a thought.

 

I would say grammar is very important. Maybe you need to back up a level or two and start in very basic terms. If you already know it, consider it review and move through it fairly quickly.

 

Good luck to you.

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I will check out those resources. It would be nice to follow something that's easy and fun. I might get a lot out of the sentence diagramming book. I remember doing really well in school with diagramming, so maybe it will click once again if I can stick words on lines:)

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You've received some good advice, but I just wanted to add that I think Rod & Staff has clearer grammar explanations than BJU. We used R&S for a couple of years and I switched to BJU b/c I liked the looks of the workbook. I felt it was much harder to understand and we've come back to R&S. My daughter is using grade 6 now and though much of the material is new to me, I do understand it from the lesson.

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I'm with you...:glare: Once, I had to look up an answer in my son's 1st grade CLE LA. I was thinking, "This is ridiculous".

 

I majored in the sciences, BTW. Throw me some organic chemistry or Mendelian Genetics, but NOT language arts. :eek:

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The problem is we were never taught grammar! Or, at least, I was not. We stopped after noun, verb, adjective, and adverb. I think we covered pronouns, participles, and such, but we never mentioned the word gerund or subjunctive that I can remember!

 

In fact, I taught High School English in a public high school for years and never saw any of the higher level grammar terms mentioned!

 

I am implementing Shurley English with my boys. I like the stupid jingles because they make it STICK! (We have implemented a LOT of songs and rymes this year because it WORKS for my boys.)

 

Dawn

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FLL 3 is very scripted and walks you through all the examples and diagrams that it has the student do. There is no guess work.

 

I'll confess something here...I have my M.A. and a graduate level certification in Teaching English as a Second Language, and I STILL don't diagram well. I didn't learn when I was a kid, and I find it to be a real disadvantage. I learned in grad school in a course entitle "Intensive English Grammar" (with some 800-number catalog listing) and it was VERY hard, because I had not had the fundamentals as a kid. If you gave me a complex sentence to diagram right now I would be a deer in the headlights, because I'm very rusty.

 

I like FLL because, while I do understand the parts of speech and how to USE grammar, I need help in explaining it to my son.

 

It's sort of ironic...I could teach people who didn't speak the language very well, but my own kids I have a tough time teaching.

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:iagree: Actually, most of the grammar I learned was in college, studying a foreign language. I don't think we did much grammar in school (I went to public school). Everything seemed to be about reading comprehension exercises and punctuation. I think that sums up my experience. :D

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:001_smile:

 

Really.

 

Keep "doing" grammar, but use something that doesn't confuse you. If it's at a lower grade level or a less "complete" program that's okay too.

 

Grammar is a bit like math; it is a limitless subject (despite what the folks at AG tell us). You could study it forever and never cover every topic. Just do some and keep doing it gently and try to enjoy it.

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Learn to diagram. That it what it took for me. I tried a couple of books and finally just started working on Rex Barks every night before lights out. It took awhile to click, and I started at the beginning twice, but now I think I've got it.

 

For me, who had no grammar in school beyond noun, verb, adverb, adjective, and prep phrase, the work was laying the railroad ties in my mind. The rails and trainstations when up quickly after that.

 

:grouphug: It was demoralizing to feel so lost!!

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:iagree: Actually, most of the grammar I learned was in college, studying a foreign language. I don't think we did much grammar in school (I went to public school). Everything seemed to be about reading comprehension exercises and punctuation. I think that sums up my experience. :D

 

One of my biggest issues with public school is that they are only concerned about teaching what is on the standardized tests (around here it is the WestTest 2.) Right before I pulled my son out of school this year, they were doing writing samples (to practice for the writing assessment) in science class. School funding is based on test scores, so......

 

I was fortunate enough to have a wonderful teacher in middle school who actually taught us grammar. Every single thing I learned about grammar was from her. Really.

 

So, in short, don't beat yourself up or feel like you aren't doing something right. I think you'll be surprised what you are able to do once you find the right resource!

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I'm with you...:glare: Once, I had to look up an answer in my son's 1st grade CLE LA. I was thinking, "This is ridiculous".

 

I majored in the sciences, BTW. Throw me some organic chemistry or Mendelian Genetics, but NOT language arts. :eek:

 

I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one. :)

 

I ordered Winston Grammar, more for myself than my DD. ;) She has caught me with the cards on more than one occassion. (I did not follow MCT when it came to clauses and gerunds.)

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When I run into that sort of situation, I make DH teach it. Like this week DS was learning 3D shapes in math. Well, I never really did geometry (did saxon math before they introduced the separate geometry book) and the more I tried to teach DS about the shapes, the more confused I got until I just could not figure out what the heck the difference was between a triangular prism, a pyramid and a 3 sided triangle pyramid (if that's even what it's called). I told DS he was just going to have to wait for dad to get home and teach him. And then I went online and requested a geometry math book from the library. I get it now because I ended up calling DH at work, but it sure was frustrating at the time and I was just making things worse trying to figure it out from the teachers manual and text book.

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Oh, gosh. It's all new to me, since I didn't do much grammar in school beyond the basics of parts of speech.

 

I got Grammar Town for my dd (11) this past fall and had to go back and get Grammar Island. I didn't get all the different kinds of phrases, and neither did she. I must say that I love MCT so far. Hopefully with the base work of Grammar Island we will be able to work through Grammar Town next year.

 

My son is doing grammar in his school and I use a book called "Nitty Gritty Grammar" to help him.

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I thought I knew a lot about grammar until we started using R&S 5th. I have learned so much using this book. I can't imagine a book being more explanatory. I also went to the local teacher store and bought a diagramming workbook to work through. DDs and I worked through it together. I felt bad about not being able to explain things to my dc when we first started homeschooling but I've come to realize they actually learn better when we sit down and work things out together. They also get a big boost of confidence when they "get it" before I do.:tongue_smilie:

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I would suggest Winston Grammar. Winston is excellent. My sons and I have worked through Basic and are 2/3 through Advanced. It's the only program that has helped us learn and retain grammar. I'm convinced it's because it has a hands on component that makes an abstract subject more concrete.

 

We've used Easy Grammar, ABeka and Bob Jones in previous years.

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Guest Dulcimeramy

I agree that R&S grade 5 is awesome. The first time I went through it I studied each lesson the day before. I went through it as if I were teaching it, and I worked all the problems.

 

The process of teaching the lesson to my son the next day and helping him with his problems cemented the lessons in my mind.

 

Now I am a confident grammar teacher!

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I majored in the sciences, BTW. Throw me some organic chemistry or Mendelian Genetics, but NOT language arts. :eek:

 

:iagree:

:D

 

Speaking as an engineer-by-schooling, I'm very glad to be surrounded by language arts majors amongst my fellow IRL HS moms. I'm never afraid to admit I don't know if I should use "lay" or "lie" or how to spell some word that spell check can't help me with because my attempt is so far off from however the word is really supposed to be spelled. (I'm the girl who spelled "oxygen" with a z in 4th grade.) I remember taking "reading" one year in summer school that was almost completely all diagramming sentences and mindless grammar worksheets. :ack2:

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I did Abeka. Honestly, I still feel a bit weak in English. What did I figure out, HOW TO ASK THEM THE QUESTIONS.

 

I would make them look up the rule and tell me the rule. I realize that may not work for others but it has for both of my boys who are very different.

 

So this is what it sounds like.

Me: So why is it a Predicate Nomative?

Boy: because it is after this type of verb,

Me: Hmm what kind of verb is in this sentence?

Boy: Oh wait it is an action verb,

ME: HMMMMMMMMM

 

I just knew enough to keep my head above water.

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I would suggest Winston Grammar. Winston is excellent. My sons and I have worked through Basic and are 2/3 through Advanced. It's the only program that has helped us learn and retain grammar. I'm convinced it's because it has a hands on component that makes an abstract subject more concrete.

 

We've used Easy Grammar, ABeka and Bob Jones in previous years.

I liked Winston too

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I couldn't do FLL, so I bought AG and am almost finished the first season. People keep saying that diagramming sentences is fun and I was just not feeling it until I got to the chapter on helping verbs (or whatever the grown up name for them is.) It almost is fun now. In a weird kind of way, anyway. :lol:

 

Rosie

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We have struggled for years on this subject. I finally bought Winston Grammar and it is all clicking (for me and ds, lol)! They come with a group of colorful cards that we laminatedso we can save them for the younger kids. It is hands on which has been a big help for us.

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I learned all of my grammar from one eighth grade teacher (who was fantastic with it) and through taking foreign languages.

 

I know that many schools/individuals don't value grammar as much as writing skills anymore, but it's worth the work and investment if your child is ever going to take a foreign language, particularly one like Latin/German/Slavic languages where there are different cases for nouns (so that the noun endings change in sentences, not just the verb endings). It's very hard to learn a language and basic grammar skills at the same time.

 

Hang in there, Mama -- I can't say I'm looking forward to re-learning upper level mathematics, either! ;)

 

--Pamela

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