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Another question re MFW-SL users can weigh in here also.


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SL reps have always told me how well prepared SL grads would be when sitting in a college class and hearing their faith ripped to shreds. They claim there is no other Christian curriculum that prepares dc for *whatever* they are faced with, whether it be an Atheist professor, a discussion about the Bible, whatever. SL users will be able to hold an intelligent conversation/argument, etc.defending their faith, regardless of where they end up at school.

 

I am wondering if MFW will do the same? I have no idea where my dc will end up-whether it be a Christian college or not. I do know I want them to have a solid education that prepares them for the world-not just a Christian community. A friend IRL has said that there is no way she will use a Christian curriculum other than SL, as she sees the strong worldview in currics like MFW as a weakness. She even used the word disservice.:confused: This friend is way more educated than me, has always been Christian, and has had the experience of three different colleges/universities, where as I have an easy;) degree from a state university, was busy partying, and was not even remotely a Christian then. Way back then....:lol: My highlight of college was receiving an A+ in Speech, thanks to my convincing argument to be a vegetarian.;) I was clueless to any atmosphere of faith bashing/challenging, etc.

 

Anyway, I, like so many, am attracted to MFW b'c of the rigor and layout of the HS curriculum, and that it IS Christian. I would love some feedback regarding this.:)

 

Thank you.

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I think far more important than the curriculum is how you prepare your kids in your 'regular' home life - conversations, how you live, how they see the Christian faith carried out in your life. And FWIW, going to a 'Christian college' will present them with different challenges to their faith than going to a secular college, and honestly I'm not sure which is harder to get through intact - at this point I am leaning toward Christian College being more challenging due to how conservative evangelicalism that is so widespread in the church is fairly at odds with 'academic evangelical scholarship' (for lack of a better phrase). This wasn't an issue for me, but I was raised in a more academic evangelical home and found Christian college encouraged my faith and I continued to grow - it was a great environment for me. Personally, I would never use MFW b/c it's too fundamentalist for my beliefs, and Sonlight is also a bit too conservative for our family.

 

But for close friends who were raised far more 'fundamentalist/literalist' going to Christian college was a serious HUGE problem for them and their parents, who thought they were sending them somewhere safe and protected, instead found that their kids left the faith b/c what they had been taught as 100% true all growing up was blown to shreds in college and they didn't have any alternative ways of understanding it to fall back on. FWIW, it wasn't in their first two years of college that this became an issue but their Jr/Sr years and the first few years post-graduation when their ideas started to coallesce. So unless Sonlight has some sort of study showing that their grads retain their Christian faith through their mid-late 20's, I wouldn't necessarily believe their hype.

 

I really think that apologetics has some value, worldview training has some value, but ultimately it is a deep-seated faith that needs to be their foundation for staying strong as they grow through adulthood and that is fostered in something other than curriculum. There's a reason that there is no difference in faith commitment as adults between Christian kids who went to public school, homeschool, or Christian school - it's not a pleasant sentiment to ponder, but it's something to consider as you think through how to help foster an environment where a strong adult faith can grow in the context of academia - it is a different set of challenges than other segments of society. I am a product of 16 years of Christian education - homeschool, Christian school, Christian college so that is the perspective from which I'm sharing.

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My oldest is in 9th grade. has done MFW since 2nd grade. She can handle herself very well with her non-christian worldview aunts, uncles, grandparents, and reading and writing argumentative essays.

 

One of my friends who was a pilot family for MFW high school is in attendance at a state school and doing well and still very active in his faith.

 

The authors of MFW have 2 sons who have graduated college already. Both of them went to secular universities and are still living their faith walk very strongly.

 

I guess I just think that SL is trying to really pump their good stuff and possibly make someone worried that if they don't use SL, bad stuff will happen. Well, I think that's silly of course. And if MFW were to say "we're the only ones doing it right".... well, I'd think that silly too. know what I'm saying! It is possible that God has allowed more than just SL to provide the right tools?

 

Please understand that MFW intentionally has them read more than just Christian books. and not all Christians from one source only. It's not like that.

They work on Logic and Reasoning. They will read non Christian books in literature. (edit to add this sentence: and they'll read various christian authors too to get varied opinions)

 

College or work field will not be the first time a MFW graduate will hear about other ideas. MFW strongly believes in "insulating" not "isolating" or "exposing." Think of an electrical wire: it can stay on the coil and shelf and look all pretty. But it never does anything in society (that's isolating). You can take the wire and expose it - or have a power line down during a tornado.... that's not good either. Then, there's insulated wire: cared for, edges cut properly to expose just enough so that when it is plugged into the power grid (or society in my analogy here), it works and still functions and stays strong for the race.

 

It's an analogy....

 

I'm not saying that SL won't do that.

 

In MFW students work on taking non necessarily Christian literature and writing analysis of it from other points of view.

 

In high school year 3, this is what they are doing according to a dad who was writing with his dad hat on instead of his mfw sales hat on. He was answering what are the writing assignments like in the program since the samples aren't on line yet.

 

The writing assignments in response to the literature are a wonderful way of reinforcing what is being learned in the Biblical worldview course, Thinking Like a Christian. We are reading literature from this time period and then writing an analysis of the author's worldview in light of a Biblical worldview. Each writing assignment is tied to one of the specific disciplines studied in Thinking Like a Christian: theology, philosophy, biology, psychology, ethics, sociology, law, politics, economics, and history. It has been sobering to see how much America moved away from a Biblical worldview during this time period. The literature and writing assignments are a natural way for the student to see this tend for themselves. So far, US History to 1877 has been a great experience for my daughter.

 

 

does that help any?

 

-crystal

Edited by cbollin
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I think far more important than the curriculum is how you prepare your kids in your 'regular' home life - conversations, how you live, how they see the Christian faith carried out in your life. And FWIW, going to a 'Christian college' will present them with different challenges to their faith than going to a secular college, and honestly I'm not sure which is harder to get through intact.

 

I agree with that.

 

-crystal

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Having used both now, I can say that SL is good. LOTS of good books, but there are NO discussion questions for any of the Bible/faith books until Core 400, and those 2 books are so way over our heads that we have already dropped one. My son is using MFW, and I find this program SOOO much more conducive to discussion, mainly because it's actually scheduled in! And the Bible/faith materials are geared for discussion, as opposed to simply a book to read daily. SL has great books, and all of those books are scheduled at break-neck speed. The commentary from the books is usually from the point of view of John Holzman, and I'm not quite sure what his total religious worldview is. MFW schedules less books, but delves into them, there is interaction with the history AND so far I am finding the faith resources are meant for us to discuss together using our family's point of view of faith.

 

SL is right now revamping their instructor guides for the high school programs because they are NOT open and go and they are NOT planned out enough that you can just start every Monday without trying to figure out how to work in those questions and answers on Sunday afternoon! The reason I have now gravitated to MFW for my son, even though we own every SL Core now, is the slower pace, deeper study and EASE OF USE of the IG!

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Having used both now, I can say that SL is good. LOTS of good books, but there are NO discussion questions for any of the Bible/faith books until Core 400, and those 2 books are so way over our heads that we have already dropped one. My son is using MFW, and I find this program SOOO much more conducive to discussion, mainly because it's actually scheduled in! And the Bible/faith materials are geared for discussion, as opposed to simply a book to read daily. SL has great books, and all of those books are scheduled at break-neck speed. The commentary from the books is usually from the point of view of John Holzman, and I'm not quite sure what his total religious worldview is. MFW schedules less books, but delves into them, there is interaction with the history AND so far I am finding the faith resources are meant for us to discuss together using our family's point of view of faith.

 

SL is right now revamping their instructor guides for the high school programs because they are NOT open and go and they are NOT planned out enough that you can just start every Monday without trying to figure out how to work in those questions and answers on Sunday afternoon! The reason I have now gravitated to MFW for my son, even though we own every SL Core now, is the slower pace, deeper study and EASE OF USE of the IG!

 

Based on using SL one year with my older dd and now using MFW's first year of high school,

:iagree:

There is good material on this issue to be found in both programs, and in fact in many others, so it is not exclusive, but using it at a teenage level and a thoughtful pace provides more depth, IMHO.

 

This topic is a big concern of mine, too, due to my own personal experiences being tossed this way and that in my teen years. Even before I found MFW, I purposed to (1) have my children read the entire Bible, line by line, so that they wouldn't be confused when folks (Christian or not) quoted individual verses out of context, and (2) discuss as many views as possible with my children, before they left the nest, to prepare them for the world out there.

 

I was doing those things on my own before MFW had high school. I'm so happy to still be doing them but not have to plan them all out every night after teaching my child during the day, now that I have MFW :)

 

Julie

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I think far more important than the curriculum is how you prepare your kids in your 'regular' home life - conversations, how you live, how they see the Christian faith carried out in your life. And FWIW, going to a 'Christian college' will present them with different challenges to their faith than going to a secular college, and honestly I'm not sure which is harder to get through intact - at this point I am leaning toward Christian College being more challenging due to how conservative evangelicalism that is so widespread in the church is fairly at odds with 'academic evangelical scholarship' (for lack of a better phrase). This wasn't an issue for me, but I was raised in a more academic evangelical home and found Christian college encouraged my faith and I continued to grow - it was a great environment for me. Personally, I would never use MFW b/c it's too fundamentalist for my beliefs, and Sonlight is also a bit too conservative for our family.

 

But for close friends who were raised far more 'fundamentalist/literalist' going to Christian college was a serious HUGE problem for them and their parents, who thought they were sending them somewhere safe and protected, instead found that their kids left the faith b/c what they had been taught as 100% true all growing up was blown to shreds in college and they didn't have any alternative ways of understanding it to fall back on. FWIW, it wasn't in their first two years of college that this became an issue but their Jr/Sr years and the first few years post-graduation when their ideas started to coallesce. So unless Sonlight has some sort of study showing that their grads retain their Christian faith through their mid-late 20's, I wouldn't necessarily believe their hype.

 

I really think that apologetics has some value, worldview training has some value, but ultimately it is a deep-seated faith that needs to be their foundation for staying strong as they grow through adulthood and that is fostered in something other than curriculum. There's a reason that there is no difference in faith commitment as adults between Christian kids who went to public school, homeschool, or Christian school - it's not a pleasant sentiment to ponder, but it's something to consider as you think through how to help foster an environment where a strong adult faith can grow in the context of academia - it is a different set of challenges than other segments of society. I am a product of 16 years of Christian education - homeschool, Christian school, Christian college so that is the perspective from which I'm sharing.

 

Thanks for your thoughtful reply!

 

I agree that our home/family is the single most important factor in shaping our dc's faith. My dh and I are "baby" Christians, so our dc haven't always had the Christian home that you were raised in. We're not "on fire":D or anything, but we definitely want a different HS and college experience for our dc.

 

I am aware of the stuff that goes on in Christian colleges-not b'c I've been to one, but I have several friends with dc attending them and I've heard pretty horrible stories that have included the student body and professors. Personally, I believe myself to be a victim of spiritual abuse, and understand clearly how *any* social situation-even church- can throw someone off their course. I tend to be in the camp that believes the dc that come from the most conservative homes are the ones with red flags waving. JMHO.

 

I don't think SL or any curriculum can provide proof that their program will seal the deal on a lifelong faith-they are obviously tooting their own horn(perhaps out of desperation due to their exhaustive IG's?). It is not even arguable that the majority of dc raised in church will walk away form it after leaving the nest. However, whether that happens or not to my dc is beside the point. I am hoping to just have our dc be educated enough that they can hold their own, regardless of who/what they are up against(in regard to their faith).

 

 

 

 

My oldest is in 9th grade. has done MFW since 2nd grade. She can handle herself very well with her non-christian worldview aunts, uncles, grandparents, and reading and writing argumentative essays.

 

One of my friends who was a pilot family for MFW high school is in attendance at a state school and doing well and still very active in his faith.

 

The authors of MFW have 2 sons who have graduated college already. Both of them went to secular universities and are still living their faith walk very strongly.

 

I guess I just think that SL is trying to really pump their good stuff and possibly make someone worried that if they don't use SL, bad stuff will happen. Well, I think that's silly of course. And if MFW were to say "we're the only ones doing it right".... well, I'd think that silly too. know what I'm saying! It is possible that God has allowed more than just SL to provide the right tools?

 

Please understand that MFW intentionally has them read more than just Christian books. and not all Christians from one source only. It's not like that.

They work on Logic and Reasoning. They will read non Christian books in literature. (edit to add this sentence: and they'll read various christian authors too to get varied opinions)

 

College or work field will not be the first time a MFW graduate will hear about other ideas. MFW strongly believes in "insulating" not "isolating" or "exposing." Think of an electrical wire: it can stay on the coil and shelf and look all pretty. But it never does anything in society (that's isolating). You can take the wire and expose it - or have a power line down during a tornado.... that's not good either. Then, there's insulated wire: cared for, edges cut properly to expose just enough so that when it is plugged into the power grid (or society in my analogy here), it works and still functions and stays strong for the race.

 

It's an analogy....

 

I'm not saying that SL won't do that.

 

In MFW students work on taking non necessarily Christian literature and writing analysis of it from other points of view.

 

In high school year 3, this is what they are doing according to a dad who was writing with his dad hat on instead of his mfw sales hat on. He was answering what are the writing assignments like in the program since the samples aren't on line yet.

 

 

 

 

does that help any?

 

-crystal

 

Yes, Crystal, it does help. I truly love your analogy! I was tip-toeing around that dirty little word-sheltering.:tongue_smilie: You have explained my concerns quite well. Thank you!

 

Having used both now, I can say that SL is good. LOTS of good books, but there are NO discussion questions for any of the Bible/faith books until Core 400, and those 2 books are so way over our heads that we have already dropped one. My son is using MFW, and I find this program SOOO much more conducive to discussion, mainly because it's actually scheduled in! And the Bible/faith materials are geared for discussion, as opposed to simply a book to read daily. SL has great books, and all of those books are scheduled at break-neck speed. The commentary from the books is usually from the point of view of John Holzman, and I'm not quite sure what his total religious worldview is. MFW schedules less books, but delves into them, there is interaction with the history AND so far I am finding the faith resources are meant for us to discuss together using our family's point of view of faith.

 

SL is right now revamping their instructor guides for the high school programs because they are NOT open and go and they are NOT planned out enough that you can just start every Monday without trying to figure out how to work in those questions and answers on Sunday afternoon! The reason I have now gravitated to MFW for my son, even though we own every SL Core now, is the slower pace, deeper study and EASE OF USE of the IG!

 

Yep, I have lurked long enough on SL, and have personally seen the HS IG's, to be positive that I want nothing to do with their HS, until the above mentioned does change. And, obviously in my dd's time it won't. I need much more hand-holding than SL provides-in History, Literature, and Bible study!

 

Based on using SL one year with my older dd and now using MFW's first year of high school,

 

There is good material on this issue to be found in both programs, and in fact in many others, so it is not exclusive, but using it at a teenage level and a thoughtful pace provides more depth, IMHO.

 

This topic is a big concern of mine, too, due to my own personal experiences being tossed this way and that in my teen years. Even before I found MFW, I purposed to (1) have my children read the entire Bible, line by line, so that they wouldn't be confused when folks (Christian or not) quoted individual verses out of context, and (2) discuss as many views as possible with my children, before they left the nest, to prepare them for the world out there.

 

I was doing those things on my own before MFW had high school. I'm so happy to still be doing them but not have to plan them all out every night after teaching my child during the day, now that I have MFW :)

 

Julie

 

Thanks, Julie. I own several of the Bible study books from SL, and love all of them, so I agree that there is a lot f good there. It's the overall curriculum that is not going to work for us.

 

I had to :lol: as I've never needed to deliberately expose our dc to other lifestyles and beliefs-Thanksgiving dinner and such with relatives does the job as great foundations for discussions.;)

 

Oh, yeah-and my past life. The truth really stinks sometimes.:glare: Lots of opportunity for discussion there.;):tongue_smilie:

Edited by smilesonly
Bible-spelled-B-i-b-l-e. ;-)
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