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This post is for both the Latin lovers & the Latin haters. My 5th grade dd is among the Latin haters. She HATES it except for the translating. I make her do it anyway b/c I think she needs some foreign language exposure, and since I speak only English, there's really no point in me doing a modern language with her. I also do it b/c I went to a Martin Cothran seminar last summer & he convinced me that Latin is a Good Thing when he talked about all the different processes a person has to go through every time she translates.

 

However, dd told me the other day that she hates the subject enough that she'd be willing to do more math if she didn't have to do Latin. Now she said that fully believing that I'd not let her do that, but I started thinking that if I let her drop Latin she might actually have time to do the Life of Fred books we already own...

 

On the other hand she does enjoy the translating so I suppose we could do Minimus. I have Latin Book One also, but I've never been quite sure what I'm supposed to do with it. I'm guessing either one would require one on one time with me? Of course, we could just continue on with what we're doing, but I'm thinking that trading in Latin for more math could not possibly be a bad thing.

 

Any opinions?

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She hates the grunt work--memorizing vocab, endings, etc. She can't really do the translating unless she does the foundational stuff first though.

 

Are you sure? I have to learn that way, but my dh doesn't. He starts off with the exercise to be translated, then goes off to investigate the parts he doesn't know, then comes back to do the exercise. I think that's crazy, but that's how he works. Why not test it out with your daughter? It doesn't really matter what process she uses, does it, as long as she works out how to complete the assignment? How would she go if you asked her to do the exercise on the right hand page of her book, and note down the stuff she had to look up on the left, the back of the previous page? I rekon you'd have a better chance of getting her to focus on specific points if she can look back over her notes and see patterns.

 

To me, and probably you, learning in preparation is quite sensible. For my dh, it's busywork. He'd rather wait until the exercise tells him he doesn't know something. Then he's perfectly happy to learn it because it is immediately relevant. When you don't know practically everything, you have to have some way of determining what should be at the top of the priority list. That's how dh does that.

 

Rosie

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I like Rosie's idea. You might be able to do that with what you have - assign the translation exercise, and then she'll have to go look up things. But, I haven't looked closely at First Form.

 

DD9 loved the translating in GSWL (one word per lesson, followed by 10 sentences in Latin to translate). It was also a great foundation for starting Henle, which she says is "fun" :lol:. In Henle, there's plenty of translation, but new vocabulary is fairly limited, on purpose. I have dd make index cards of each new word before we do the translating. I do not ask her to memorize the endings by rote, even though knowing them is obviously necessary and makes translating easier and more fun. She had a pretty good familiarity with the first and second declension (masc) endings from GSWL; I have her write the list of endings that we have done so far once every day, and that seems to be working well, in combination with the translation, for learning the endings. She writes as many as she can remember first, and then I allow her to look at the chart for the remainder.

 

I'd strongly consider GSWL for your situation - almost no memorization of endings or vocab; they get learned along the way; plenty of translating - followed by any solid program that has a lot of translating with rather gradual vocabulary acquisition. (Maybe Second Form? I haven't looked at the TOC for those books, but take a look at what is covered in GSWL http://www.gettingstartedwithlatin.com/faq.php and also look at the sample pages, such as http://www.gettingstartedwithlatin.com/preview14.php. Of course I favor Henle to follow GSWL, but I might be odd :D)

Edited by wapiti
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Well, I do love Latin Prep, which is a lot more "fun" (great dry wit) for kids this age, and while it teaches the grammar explicitly, there's also a lot more translation right from the beginning.

 

Lingua Latina is *entirely* reading-based, but I think you need a really competent teacher working with the student to make it work.

 

Other programs like Cambridge and Ecce Romani are reading-based and may be more appealing to her.

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To me, and probably you, learning in preparation is quite sensible. For my dh, it's busywork. He'd rather wait until the exercise tells him he doesn't know something. Then he's perfectly happy to learn it because it is immediately relevant. When you don't know practically everything, you have to have some way of determining what should be at the top of the priority list. That's how dh does that.

 

I like Rosie's idea. You might be able to do that with what you have - assign the translation exercise, and then she'll have to go look up things. But, I haven't looked closely at First Form.

 

DD9 loved the translating in GSWL (one word per lesson, followed by 10 sentences in Latin to translate). It was also a great foundation for starting Henle, which she says is "fun" :lol:.

 

I'd strongly consider GSWL for your situation - almost no memorization of endings or vocab; they get learned along the way; plenty of translating

 

Well, I do love Latin Prep, which is a lot more "fun" (great dry wit) for kids this age, and while it teaches the grammar explicitly, there's also a lot more translation right from the beginning.

 

Lingua Latina is *entirely* reading-based, but I think you need a really competent teacher working with the student to make it work.

 

Other programs like Cambridge and Ecce Romani are reading-based and may be more appealing to her.

 

Thank you! You have given me a lot to think about. I do already have Henle. I bought it as a refresher course for myself but then never actually did it. I don't think I could do Lingua Latina. I only had 2 years of Latin & college was a looooong time ago! I can check Cambridge & Ecce Romani. I thought they were for the Latin expert too so never considered them.

 

I'll look into both of the Galore Park programs. Dd adores dry wit/sarcasm so I'm sure she'd enjoy that part.

 

Rosie, in the meantime, I'll try your husband's method on her. I think she'll find it frustrating, but if I'm wrong I'll have found another way to approach Latin. If I'm right, maybe she'll gain a new appreciation for memorizing!! ;)

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My 5th grader thought he was going to hate Latin and didn't want to do it at all, but it's probably his favorite subject and I think it's mainly the silly DVD we watch each week and laugh at. We're using Latin for Children A. And (hate to admit...) but my son never really studies the vocab, but knows it well because every morning as he's waking up, I put on the CD! He hates this, but it works. I usually play about 5 chapters as he's waking up. I always play the current week's, and then just start somewhere in the middle of the CD and let it go. This seems to have worked really well for us. As much as he hates waking up to people chanting Latin loudly in his bedroom, he learns it and then doesn't have to spend the time memorizing flash cards or whatever.

 

I love Latin for Children, and so does my son.

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Well, I do love Latin Prep, which is a lot more "fun" (great dry wit) for kids this age, and while it teaches the grammar explicitly, there's also a lot more translation right from the beginning.

 

If I end up switching to Latin Prep do I need the workbooks? She's already done Lively Latin & about 1/2 of First Form Latin.

 

Also, I'm assuming that it would be wise to buy the answer key for the text. Is that correct?

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I just wanted to comment about Latin Prep also. DD13 was using Latina Christiana and upon asking her what she thought about the program she described it as a slow painful death. :glare: I believe, from Rosie's description of herself, that dd learns like that too so memorizing list after list of words and derivatives doesn't work. She learns through using the information. We switched to Latin Prep a couple of weeks ago and although it has started to become challenging, she is doing it and has been enjoying it. She likes the translation work because it makes it seem as though there is a purpose to learning Latin.

 

Anyway, I hope you can find something that your dd enjoys!

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Thank you Aime! I love the dying a slow painful death. Sounds like something my drama prone child would say so I asked her & she about fell off her exercise ball laughing. :D I did order Latin Prep from Horrible Books today. I just got the 2 main books--that way I'm only out $32 if it doesn't work. I think we'll be ok though. Dd was sold when I commented that British humor is generally rather sarcastic. ;)

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