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A vent about hosting HS group....


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Today was the first meeting for a group I put together. To give you a little back story, I started this group because there was a LONG conversation via email among our local HS group about the difficulties in making friends/meeting other families/groups available, etc. I already host a geography group, but figured i'd step up and offer to host another. So, I decided to start a group based on the kidswhothink blog. The kids were going to be working in groups to problem solve on the activities. So, I was inundated with emails from moms interested. I allowed a max of 22 kids and ended up with a waiting list of 11 other families. I made the people in the group aware that there were several families waiting and that if they did not feel they could commit to let me know so I could ask another family to join us. Oh no...everyone was SO excited.

 

Fast forward to today, our first meeting. I received 2 emails from moms with sick kids. Totally valid excuse, no big deal. That still left 11 families. Well, only 4 families showed up. 7 moms didn't even bother to call and let me know they would not be here. I did receive two email (AFTER group was over) simply stating "Oh, sorry we missed. See you next time!". As if it was just no big deal. Well, sorry, it IS a big deal. I put a lot of work into getting everything ready. I purchased supplies, drug three extra tables into the house, cleaned, and did lesson prep before hand. Not only that, everyone is aware that the group is based on GROUP work. It is hard to do group work when only 4 families (two with only children) attend.

 

Needless to say, the group bombed. I felt like an idiot. We had two tiny groups. We were all going to talk about what we did, why we did it, and if it was a success. Yeah, that took all of two minutes with just two little groups. I just want to cry. I put so much thought and effort into this.

 

So, what would you all do? I know I need to send an email, but just don't know what to say. I am too angry and upset right now to put together a coherent email. I would probably sound bitter and angry. I just want them to realize the effort it takes to put a group together, especially in your own house, and that it is very insulting when people just don't bother to show up. I would rather people that can't commit just drop out and make room for some of the families on the waitlist.

 

Sorry this got so long. I just don't understand people like this. When I commit to something, I go (barring illness, etc) I just don't believe that all 7 that didn't even bother to contact me ALL had last minute emergencies, you know?

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You know, were it me, I'd e-mail every family who did not show and let them know I was putting them on the wait list. As of right now there are no open spaces, and you will let them know if a space opens up.

 

Then I'd call every wait-listed family and let them know when the next meeting was.

 

I'd give it one more try before I decide to give it up.

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I would be po'd. Big time.

 

Send an email, be matter-of-fact. You said up front that this group required a commitment, and that there's a waiting list. Seems like you have to reiterate, and spell it out further. The group will not work without a quorum, and "oops" doesn't cut it, and you need prior notice of any absences or conflicts.

 

If they miss again without a good excuse, someone on the waiting list gets their spot. More than three absentee times without a majorly good excuse (like hospitalization :tongue_smilie:), and they're out. You could phrase it more nicely, like "this group is obviously not a good fit for your family's schedule", but the result is the same.

 

I have no time for these kinds of ninnies.

 

I host a book group for a bunch of girls. It's been going great. We had room for one more and we met this really nice girl who loves to read and invited her. She was so excited. Four months later, she hasn't shown up. We remind her, she doesn't show, she says they thought it was the next weekend. Or they were busy. Last month my dd called her and the girl said she wanted to come but she wasn't sure if her mother would drive her. :confused: This month she called a couple days ahead of time to find out what the book was - sorry, we've invited someone else.

 

I do think it's the mom, not the girl, but as the result is the same, forget it.

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You know, were it me, I'd e-mail every family who did not show and let them know I was putting them on the wait list. As of right now there are no open spaces, and you will let them know if a space opens up.

 

Then I'd call every wait-listed family and let them know when the next meeting was.

 

I'd give it one more try before I decide to give it up.

 

:iagree: Y'know, I like this even better than giving them one more chance.

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Wow. I would feel the same way. I don't think you sound bitter. I think you sound justifiably frustrated and treated rudely.

 

I would send a note saying that since they couldn't commit, you are letting a family on your waitlist take their place. And start calling that wait list for replacements.

 

Hugs.

 

Take heart. Don't let a bit of a bumpy start keep you from doing a great thing. I bet once things get going you'll have a core group that can be counted on.

 

As a side note, for years I have heard the same complaint that prompted your kind start of this activity. I have concluded that some of the time it is just hot air and you have to sift through how many really want to be there.

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You know, were it me, I'd e-mail every family who did not show and let them know I was putting them on the wait list. As of right now there are no open spaces, and you will let them know if a space opens up.

 

Then I'd call every wait-listed family and let them know when the next meeting was.

 

I'd give it one more try before I decide to give it up.

 

I like this.

I would also try charging a small fee in advance. If they don't show up, it is forfeit. Just a few $ to cover supplies you purchased- it will work wonders ;-)

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I don't have any particular advice, but I just wanted to :grouphug: and say, I totally get it; I've had many similar situations in the hs community. I truly do think this is a flaky thing that is found more among hsers than the general population.

 

Once, in our co-op, I listened to mom after mom ask, beg and wish-out-loud that they had a forum for connecting with the other moms in the group. So I set up a Yahoo Group. It was a complete failure! Only a small number of moms (and no, not the ones who were asking for it!) even joined and then there were so few posts from anyone, it died out. I found it baffling - and that isn't the only example of similar things!

 

I agree with the PP who said you should charge $. Money-on-the-line motivates people MUCH more than free.

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You know, were it me, I'd e-mail every family who did not show and let them know I was putting them on the wait list. As of right now there are no open spaces, and you will let them know if a space opens up.

 

Then I'd call every wait-listed family and let them know when the next meeting was.

 

I'd give it one more try before I decide to give it up.

:iagree:

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Thank you for some great advice. Now I just need to get the courage to do it! Some of the no-shows were people I consider friends. I think I am still too mad to send a calm email tonight. Guess I'll do it in the morning. Anyway, I had a good cry over it (I know, sounds lame. I am just hurt at how little people care about all the effort that went into it). DH brought me a rose and chocolates to cheer me up. I love him:)

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You know, were it me, I'd e-mail every family who did not show and let them know I was putting them on the wait list. As of right now there are no open spaces, and you will let them know if a space opens up.

 

Then I'd call every wait-listed family and let them know when the next meeting was.

 

I'd give it one more try before I decide to give it up.

 

This is what I would do. I would be sure to include in the message to the new families that failing to show up without advance notification (for illness or emergencies only) automatically forfeits future participation.

 

I would also re-emphasize to all that the success of the activity is directly proportional to the number of participants.

 

Sorry for your frustrations. And considering the supplies and work involved, I would also consider charging a nominal fee.

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I started a HS Group in 2008 (?). It takes time to get it going properly.

 

:grouphug: Hang in there! Sorry it didn't go as well as you had planned. There were times my children and I sat alone waiting for others and in 4 hours NO ONE came! :(

 

Now it is a pretty active group. :) So don't give up.

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I like to plan alot of fieldtrips. I have my own list of folks that I know are dependable that I invite. I do not even send the fieldtrip to the whole group. Other people are put on my fieldtrip list by being informally recommended by a dependable Mom. That has helped alot with eliminating frustration and headache.

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Last week my friend planned something that 10 people rsvp'd to, and ONE person showed up. It was awkward and strange. I found it totally typical of the general HS community.

 

She asked if she should send a nasty letter... I said, um, no... you should sens an email saying what a great time we had and it was so much fun! I can't wait to do it again next month.. blah, blah, details, details... and then they will feel silly and rude for not emailing and showing up, and be more likely to come next time.

 

Yes, it is manipulative and passive/agressive, but it is a Mom's craft group... w/o kids... we NEED it to work!;)

 

Honey, not vinegar.

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Take a cue from the professional educators at the community classes:

 

I think you should charge for putting together a class, with at least half paid up front. And I think you should have an intro letter or at least a statement on the enrollment form (yes, I would do an enrollment form) that states the consequences for no-shows.

 

You have to train people how to treat you. And some won't like it, because they don't want to be mildly inconvenienced in order to treat you like a professional who is putting in time, energy and effort to plan educational activities and lessons. So you need to prepare them ahead of time - and to be prepared to enforce it. Then, and IMHO, only then, will you get the kind of commitment you want.

 

It all sounds very official, and you might feel a little foolish, but I bet a lot of these moms were thinking "oh, that's just a get-together. No big deal if we come the next week."

 

I'm sorry, though. Best of luck!

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I would *write* the email tonight (yes, while you are still upset) and then review it and *send* it tomorrow, maybe letting dh or a good friend review it also.

 

:iagree: Write it out now. Get out the angry and upset feelings. You are more likely to write how you really feel. Then tomorrow look it over and edit.

 

I'd be mad, too. Especially after reading your "closet messy housekeeper" thread. :D That is totally me, always cleaning right before someone comes over, throwing things upstairs or in other places that no one can see it. I get even more ticked if I do all of that cleanin' for nothin'. That makes it an even worse crime. ;)

 

:grouphug: You have my sympathy. This is why I keep talking myself out of starting a local group.

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She asked if she should send a nasty letter... I said, um, no... you should sens an email saying what a great time we had and it was so much fun! I can't wait to do it again next month.. blah, blah, details, details... and then they will feel silly and rude for not emailing and showing up, and be more likely to come next time.

The only problem with that is those people will feel it was ok to have stayed away--that their absence didn't affect the group's evening.

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Thank you for some great advice. Now I just need to get the courage to do it! Some of the no-shows were people I consider friends. I think I am still too mad to send a calm email tonight. Guess I'll do it in the morning. Anyway, I had a good cry over it (I know, sounds lame. I am just hurt at how little people care about all the effort that went into it). DH brought me a rose and chocolates to cheer me up. I love him:)

 

:grouphug: Glad you have such a great DH!

 

Don't give up just because a few people have no manners - I'm sure the ones that showed really appreciated your efforts, and those families on the original waiting list may prove much more supportive. (I agree with whoever suggested putting those who didn't show at the bottom of the list.) I'd say, give it a trial of 4-6 sessions and see where you're at. Charge for it in advance - a small sum to cover materials, coffee and biscuits - and I think other PPs are right, it will be considered more valuable (it's a nonsense, of course, but it's how some folk tick).

 

If I had something as good as what you are offering local to me, I'd be right there! Awesome!

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Thank you for some great advice. Now I just need to get the courage to do it! Some of the no-shows were people I consider friends. I think I am still too mad to send a calm email tonight. Guess I'll do it in the morning. Anyway, I had a good cry over it (I know, sounds lame. I am just hurt at how little people care about all the effort that went into it). DH brought me a rose and chocolates to cheer me up. I love him:)

 

That is the worst/hardest.

 

When I was a GS leader for 7 years, there was one woman who would literally drop the ball on 90% of deadlines, due dates, supplies needed...and then would say, "But you understand, cuz we're such good friends."

 

Well, fast forward to one of the last events for the girls who had been together for 7 years. It was the Brigdeover ceremony. This woman's DD hadn't been to meetings in 6 weeks. She hadn't acknowledged any newletters or She hadn't responded to any of the reminder calls I made. She hadn't RSVP that her DD would be at the Bridgeover. I was so busy that I didn't call to remind ANYONE in the last few days. They had all gotten formal written invitations, it was in the newsletter and it was in the emails.

 

The girl didn't come to the actual Bridgeover BUT the mom brought the girl and her little sister to the reception after to scold me that I didn't remind her AGAIN! She actually said, "Didn't I deserve a reminder after being your friend for all these years?"

 

When I said her DD hadn't attended in 6 weeks and that I hadn't heard a WORD in 6 weeks, what was I supposed to assume?

 

SHe said regular meetings were different and that Bridgeover was SO IMPORTANT that I should have called her. She pointed to her DD and said "Look how upset she is." The girl started crying then.

 

SHe was one of those people who made me think I was in the Pig World.

 

ETA: She said she "found out" about the Bridgeover b/c her friend who had a younger DD in another troop was there and used her cell phone to call her to find out why she wasn't there. I told her about all the previous stuff I had sent and emailed and she said, "But that's not what I mean. I mean you should have called me closer to today to remind me."

Edited by unsinkable
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You know, were it me, I'd e-mail every family who did not show and let them know I was putting them on the wait list. As of right now there are no open spaces, and you will let them know if a space opens up.

 

Then I'd call every wait-listed family and let them know when the next meeting was.

 

I'd give it one more try before I decide to give it up.

 

Oh, I like this!! I also organise in my area and it is so frustrating!

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That is the worst/hardest.

 

When I was a GS leader for 7 years, there was one woman who would literally drop the ball on 90% of deadlines, due dates, supplies needed...and then would say, "But you understand, cuz we're such good friends."

 

The girl didn't come to the actual Bridgeover BUT the mom brought the girl and her little sister to the reception after to scold me that I didn't remind her AGAIN! She actually said, "Didn't I deserve a reminder after being your friend for all these years?"

 

I told her about all the previous stuff I had sent and emailed and she said, "But that's not what I mean. I mean you should have called me closer to today to remind me."

 

And that is when you said if it was so important to HER daughter, maybe she should care enough to use a calendar? Because you are a friend, not her freaking mother who calls to nag her about stuff she is a grown enough woman to figure out in her own? And since she is such a good "friend", maybe she could have shown you some consideration at some point?

 

Altho all of that would be running through my head, I'd probably be too :blink: to say anything to such an outrageous turd.

 

And I would not be sending her a sign up request for next year.:glare:

 

How rude and unfriendly of her!

 

I have no idea how steam wasn't coming out your ears.

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When I had my music studio, families who did this lost their spot and I HAD NO PATIENCE, NONE! So, they either towed the ling (unless they had an emergency and then I was very forgiving) or they didn't get another lesson. With 22 - 30 families on my wait list at any given time, I did not put up with inconsiderate parental behavior.

 

So, here is my vote. You clearly spelled out your expectations. You told these original families that there was a wait list to get in so if they couldn't commit, their spot would be given away. The families with sick children did the right thing, communicated before class began and in time for you to accomodate the change in student number. The other families were completely discourteous. Having been there, done that...if you do not IMMEDIATELY give their position away and put them back on the wait list, you will have more trouble. They will assume you didn't actually mean what you said and that inconsiderate behavior will be tolerated. A huge number of people have been raised to believe the rules are not for them. Well, the rules are for them and they need to learn this lesson. If they, really, truly want their children to have this opportunity, they will apologize and gladly go back on the wait list. The good news is that if they get a second chance, they aren't likely to blow it.

 

We are just getting ready to do this in our 4-H club. We have a wait list to get in to our science/4-H academy and one of our families came a 1/2 hour late to our huge October county wide 4-H science extravaganza and we were well into the experiment...the mom actually tried to get my dh to stop and start over so her kids wouldn't have to miss out! Then they didn't come in November to the regular groups project and never called...saw us a church a week later and said, "OH, we had a family thing. I probably should have called." And then this past weekend, didn't come again, saw us at church, and then said "Can M find time to work with my kids so they can get caught up on the project. We forgot." Nope, guess what...your two children are going to miss out because we've got two very responsible high schoolers who have been desperate to get into the club and are at the top of the waiting list...calling every month in the hopes that this month they can come.

 

I really, really think you need to enforce this and though it sounds harsh, do it as kindly as you can but stick to your guns. Otherwise, you will invite more trouble in the future.

 

Ask me how I know....18 years of running a very busy music studio!

 

Faith

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I'm going to go with a different tack.

 

This is an unfortunate situation, and it's probably not going to get any better.

 

The thing to do at this point is to let people in from the waiting list, but also to design the class so that it is more flexible.

 

I don't actually think that homeschoolers are more flakey than anyone else, but I do think that they have different priorities than people who send their kids to schools. They want a specific type of life and/or education.

 

Some want their kids or themselves never to feel frustration or pressure. Those tend to be very undependable, because they pretty much start every day with the assumption that if something is inconvenient they will just skip it, and that that is perfectly reasonable. These people are very hard to work with because they can be both extremely enthusiastic and completely unreliable.

 

Some think that anything that is 'free' is 'fluff'. So if something 'has to' drop off their plate, it will be the free thing. Those people have to have clear course objectives, they have to be charged, they have to think that they are lucky to have gotten their children into it (the waiting list really helps with that), and they have to think that your class is a 'core learning' experience to make a true commitment to it.

 

Some make a genuine commitment, but if they decide that the class is not working particularly well for their children, they are more likely than schooled parents to stop coming in midstream.

 

Bottom line: take a few more kids than you really want in the class. You are going to lose some, flat out, so you want a little margin. Organize each class to be self-contained, so that the project is started and finished that week, and don't form the groups with the expectation that the same kids will attend each week. I agree with those who said to drop or at least severely threaten the ones who failed to show up this week, but have to tell you that there's a good chance that even the ones on the waiting list who were most enthusiastic will do the same thing.

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And that is when you said if it was so important to HER daughter, maybe she should care enough to use a calendar? Because you are a friend, not her freaking mother who calls to nag her about stuff she is a grown enough woman to figure out in her own? And since she is such a good "friend", maybe she could have shown you some consideration at some point?

 

Altho all of that would be running through my head, I'd probably be too :blink: to say anything to such an outrageous turd.

 

And I would not be sending her a sign up request for next year.:glare:

 

How rude and unfriendly of her!

 

I have no idea how steam wasn't coming out your ears.

 

I was really upset. But by this point with this woman, I had started to realize MY part. I had given her special reminders for years. By the last year, I was finally coming to understand she was a user who felt she was so close, such good friends with everyone, that she was getting special consideration from everyone.

 

That night was pretty much the end of our one-way "friendship."

 

[ A huge number of people have been raised to believe the rules are not for them. Well, the rules are for them and they need to learn this lesson.

 

 

That is the way this woman is. She had said things like: "I refused to hang up the phone until I got the appointment" when she was told no appts. were available. And "They changed the rules for us" when it came to swim lesson sign-ups. It should have been BIG red flags for me...stupidly, they were just small red flags about her true personality.
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you could do what out group does: ban people for good after *one* no show, no call. Everyone signs on to our bylaws when they join, which make the penalties for this crystal clear. I think making expectations clear is key-but you have EVERY right to refuse to allow people to treat you this way. Out with the old, in with the new!! You don't deserve to be treated this way.

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Send the e-mail.

 

Reiterate that there are 11 families waiting to join and you would like a firm committment by the end of the week. If you don't hear from the family you are going to assume they don't want to participate and replace them with a family who would like to commit. Explain to them what happened with all the work you put in (and you are a homeschooler just like them with the same responsibilities) and in order for the group to work, there needs to be more kids or it's a waste of time.

 

In my experience, people commit to something they pay for. Next time, I would send out a supply list and let them know that they need to bring these things or charge a fee for the group. Parents will make sure that if they miss, it's because of something big since they have paid for it.

 

Just my opinion. Sorry you went to all that work, but, it wasn't for nothing. It's good for the other parents to see the amount of work put into it and they will be committed next time.

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I was really upset. But by this point with this woman, I had started to realize MY part. I had given her special reminders for years. By the last year, I was finally coming to understand she was a user who felt she was so close, such good friends with everyone, that she was getting special consideration from everyone.

 

That night was pretty much the end of our one-way "friendship."

 

[ A huge number of people have been raised to believe the rules are not for them. Well, the rules are for them and they need to learn this lesson.

 

That is the way this woman is. She had said things like: "I refused to hang up the phone until I got the appointment" when she was told no appts. were available. And "They changed the rules for us" when it came to swim lesson sign-ups. It should have been BIG red flags for me...stupidly, they were just small red flags about her true personality.

 

Oh ick. Yeahhhh. I tend to run mentally screaming in the other direction from people like that. Inconsiderate is the LEAST of the issues.

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Okay. I will put out a caution about charging.

 

IME, apparently everyone has more money than me. Enough to be able to afford to throw it away.:001_huh:

 

More than once, I have seen people pay and feel since they are paying for your services, they should be treated with the "customer is always right" attitude and seem to think since you are making money off them that you should accept whatever they dish out.

 

Just saying. Some people are going to be that way no matter what you do. It's just their personality or lifestyle and money won't cure them.

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You know, were it me, I'd e-mail every family who did not show and let them know I was putting them on the wait list. As of right now there are no open spaces, and you will let them know if a space opens up.

 

Then I'd call every wait-listed family and let them know when the next meeting was.

 

I'd give it one more try before I decide to give it up.

 

Brilliant response!

 

Last year my main social group was homeschoolers, and I got so sick of people being unreliable. This year I am mainly socialising through ds's playgroup (non-homeschoolers) and the difference is staggering - people show up when expected, call when they can't make it, and remember their commitments. It is my sad experience that many homeschoolers think themselves somehow excused from the rules of common courtesy.

 

So sorry you had to go through this...

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Okay. I will put out a caution about charging.

 

IME, apparently everyone has more money than me. Enough to be able to afford to throw it away.:001_huh:

 

More than once, I have seen people pay and feel since they are paying for your services, they should be treated with the "customer is always right" attitude and seem to think since you are making money off them that you should accept whatever they dish out.

 

Just saying. Some people are going to be that way no matter what you do. It's just their personality or lifestyle and money won't cure them.

 

You know, that reminds me of another point. Charging can be a mixed blessing if people then feel free to tell you what to do or not meet the other course requirements because they 'have already paid and that's it'.

 

Also, around here it's pretty common for people to charge a nominal amount for small field trips, payable in advance, and then return the money or fail to cash the check only if families either show up or excuse themselves properly in advance.

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You know, that reminds me of another point. Charging can be a mixed blessing if people then feel free to tell you what to do or not meet the other course requirements because they 'have already paid and that's it'.

 

Also, around here it's pretty common for people to charge a nominal amount for small field trips, payable in advance, and then return the money or fail to cash the check only if families either show up or excuse themselves properly in advance.

 

Which reminds me.

 

Don't accept checks.

 

Yes, home schoolers bounce checks too.

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Didn't get to read the replies..

 

It happened to me too.. First day supposed to have 7 families.. the mom who was supposed to bring the paint for our art project calls at 7am "oh we aren't coming" I send DH out to walmart to get some paint and paint brushes.. He rushes there and rushes back .. I was upset that we wouldnt have enough paint and paint brushes for ALL the kids that would be coming!!! I ran out the door to get to our space (my church) and set up all sorts of puzzles, arts and crafts etc... and guess what?

 

1 other family shows up.. late.. but they showed up.

 

Over time (this is my 3rd year running the group) I have learned that there is NO way to force people to come. We have 10 families signed up and who have paid our donation fee to the church space we use. But on average 3 show up per week.

 

Try again. But first i would put together an air-tight Handbook with all of your policies, how decisions will be made, etc etc. i am doing a MAJOR overhaul on our Handbook for next year.

 

HUGS sorry.. sounds like what I go through all the time.

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You guys are awesome!!! Although I am saddened to hear that something similar has happened to many of you, it does make me realize it's not personal.

 

As for charging, you all are probably right. I should charge a small fee to cover supplies, etc. The only reason I haven't is because I sort of felt like this was my way of giving back to the community. I am so busy that I can't commit to a volunteer position, so I see this as my volunteer work. I host another group that has been very successful. I guess I just assumed this would work out the same way.

 

I did send out an email sharing my dissapointment. I still haven't heard from 3 of the no shows:(.

 

I appreciate all of your suggestions and will be using many of them! It's so nice to have a place to come to vent freely about your feelings!! Thanks guys:)

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I did send out an email sharing my dissapointment. I still haven't heard from 3 of the no shows:(.

 

How rude. You don't need people like this when you've put in so much effort!

 

I hope it works out in the end - these things can take time to get going. :001_smile:

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I think I would send an email to everyone, including the waiting list families and tell them what you told us. You had to put some interested families on a waiting list, you rearranged your house, purchased supplies, planned the lesson, etc. and only four families showed up. Two families were sick and couldn't attend (thank you very much for calling and letting me know!), but other members simply didn't show and didn't have the courtesy to notify me that they wouldn't be able to attend.

 

I would take the families that didn't show and didn't bother to call/email/apologize and bump them to the waiting list (let them know) and invite some of the families from the waiting list to attend the next session.

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