SL and HOD and learning how to think for yourself

[jer2911mom]

This might seem like a very strange question, but a friend and I have been talking about HOD and SL (we're both currently using HOD) and after studying SL and talking to people that use it, I've gotten the impression that SL tries hard to teach you how to think for yourself and doesn't try to tell you what to think. I'm on the fence about HOD because I am just using LHFHG this year and only have some early conclusions. Can anyone comment on this who has used HOD in the later years, and especially if they have used SL, too? Do you feel HOD tries to draw you to the "right answer" or does it encourage you to figure out why you believe what you believe?

 

Thanks!

[babybryte]

:lurk5:

[melmichigan]

This might seem like a very strange question, but a friend and I have been talking about HOD and SL (we're both currently using HOD) and after studying SL and talking to people that use it, I've gotten the impression that SL tries hard to teach you how to think for yourself and doesn't try to tell you what to think.

 

I have no experience with HOD. I will step in and say the statement you made was one of the reasons I began with SL and one of the reasons I own all the elementary and middle school levels. I believed that "reason to buy SL" as listed in the catalog. It was a nice illusion for me while it lasted.

 

I do think the SL curriculum itself can be adapted easily (removing books, ignoring IG notes, adding your own religious resources, etc.) and know of families of many faiths that use it and use it successfully, as well as those who teach it from a secular point of view. But to say that SL "tries hard to teach you how to think for yourself and doesn't try to tell you what to think" is incorrect in my opinion.

Edited January 24, 2011 by melmichigan

[MamaHappy]

I'm really glad you posted this because I'm also using HOD and I've had similar questions/concerns. I don't have any answers for you, but I'm curious about what others will say.

 

What is your gut feeling about HOD? Do you think it teaches kids to think for themselves? I like that many of the questions are open-ended, but I still feel like the correct answer is obvious.

[Donna A.]

I think you've nailed the reason I had so much trouble with HOD when I've tried it. I knew I didn't like the scripted format. All the answers are right *there*, and you're told everything to do and say. I haven't seen the RTR manual, but I've seen or owned everything from Little Hearts to CTC, and it's the same way in every one. One of HOD's "strengths" is supposed to be for the child to be able to work more independently, but at that point, it's just the manual telling my child what to think instead of telling ME what to think and say TO my child.

[jer2911mom]

I'm really glad you posted this because I'm also using HOD and I've had similar questions/concerns. I don't have any answers for you, but I'm curious about what others will say.

 

What is your gut feeling about HOD? Do you think it teaches kids to think for themselves? I like that many of the questions are open-ended, but I still feel like the correct answer is obvious.

 

After looking at the 3-week sample for Sonlight Core K, I would say it asks a lot more open-ended "what do you think about..." or "why do people do this?" or "Does the bible say this?" type questions than HOD from what I've seen so far in LHFHG. I find the LHFHG history and devotional to be much more of a lecture style than a discussion. Questions are asked but they generally have a specific and obvious answer. I noticed Carrie is including "Who Is God and Can I Really Know Him?" from Apologia's "What We Believe" series in the next guide, which I actually would like to do. I'm not sure how much of that is discussion, but I'm hoping it's in there. Looking at Sonlight's sample got me to thinking about the other HOD levels and what the format is. I believe she includes a lot of character analysis, but I don't know how much of that is framed within the context of what is the "right answer". I'm hoping those who've used the other levels can provide feedback on this as I've decided it's an important factor for me. I have a friend whose daughter used SL through Core 100 and she credits SL with her daughter's ability to think for herself and formulate her own opinions. She is also very strong in literary analysis, which my friend credits SL for as well.

[DaffodilDreams]

I've used both. I found SL much easier to tweak into a think for yourself environment. I removed books that were too evangelist for my taste, and I basically stopped using the IG. Now, I just use SL as a booklist.

 

I loved some of the resources HOD put together, but I could never get over the feeling that the TM was all about brainwashing - even though I once again found myself not using aspects of the "script". So, this company will become another booklist for me.

 

From my post, it may appear that I'm anti-Christian. This is so not true. I simply want Dd to not grow up making snap judgments against other religions. We can handle spirituality in our own way during our own time. We don't need school to do that for us. I found SL easier of the two to use for our goals, but I've found a combination of options that work better for us.

 

ETA: I should add that I'm more than comfortable asking Dd open-ended questions about what we've read w/o the use of a guide or script and then growing the conversation from there so using bits and pieces of programs is a natural fit for us. If you are the same way, I think you could take what appeals to you, use it, and leave the rest while encouraging a free-thinker all along.

Edited January 24, 2011 by kimmie38017

[jer2911mom]

But to say that SL "tries hard to teach you how to think for yourself and doesn't try to tell you what to think" is incorrect in my opinion.

 

Thanks, Melissa. I appreciate your reply. Can you pls. elaborate on this part? Thanks!

[jer2911mom]

I found SL easier of the two to use for our goals, but I've found a combination of options that work better for us.

 

I'm curious what options are working for you now? Thanks

[DaffodilDreams]

You asked what other options I've found. Here is what I've put together:

 

History: AO (minus This Country of Ours), elements of LBC, SOTW + guide, various history enyclopedias I've collected (mostly from SL and WTM), various titles from HOD, American Girl book sets, local museums, netflix or library videos, etc; at some point, I will use Howard Zinn's a Young People's History of the US

 

Geography: CM approach, globe, Atlas, maps, and a few resources from LBC and SL

 

Foreign Language: Mandarin - Mango Languages; Latin - Song School Latin

 

Science: Elemental Science (love this!!!!!), science readers about topics that interest dd, various science encyclopedias I've collected (many based on SL or WTM suggestions), community-based classes, supplemental videos from the library or netflix, Earthschooling experiments

 

Critical Thinking: The Private Eye (we tend to do this more in the Spring and Fall when we spend more time outside)

 

Reading: Progressive Phonics, Phonics Pathways, and books at her level

 

LA: FLL, Kumon workbooks, Language Lessons for the Very Young (she hates this, so we don't use all of it - just parts I feel I need to include), Grammar-Land, Wordly Wise (though the best builder of her vocabulary has been the exposure to all of the books we read)

 

Spelling: taking a CM approach to spelling - seems to be working since she's a stronger speller than reader right now

 

Handwriting: Italics by Penny Gardner (suggested via LBC - we really, really love this)

 

Writing: CM and Beechick styles for now but WWE and CW interest me

 

Math: Singapore, MEP, and suggestions from www.livingmath.net

 

Art: AO and LBC artist studies, Earthschooling art suggestions

 

Storytelling: Earthschooling and LBC

 

Handicrafts: Earthschooling/Waldorf

 

Music: AO and LBC composer studies, harp lessons with a friend of ours that teaches harp, recorder and glockenspiel on our own at home

 

Theatre: she is heavily involved in a local theatre

 

Read-Alouds: titles from SL, HOD, AO, LBC, and stories contained within the Earthschooling curriculum; titles from my own extensive wish list for her of must-reads from my own childhood and continued exposure to children's lit

 

My biggest problem with this do it yourself style is knowing when to say when for the day. I could keep going, but I have to remind myself that dd needs more than just school. I feel like there are so many wonderful options yet never enough time to fit in everything!

 

My plan is to keep doing our own thing until I feel she is ready for SL 5. Then, I will most likely break down and order that core as is. It just sounds like such a fun year! I also like the looks of Winter Promise's Around the World year (I can't recall the exact title), so I've been collecting the books from that list via paperbackswap for awhile now.

 

I think that covers everything. Good luck finding what fits you guys. That's the important thing! What everyone else thinks really doesn't matter. :001_smile:

Edited January 24, 2011 by kimmie38017

[Melissa H. in GA]

that encourages your child to think is Oak Meadow. It guides the child to use their imagination and to connect things in their own way.

 

oakmeadow.com

 

Melissa

[Tree House Academy]

Particularly in things like Poetry and Read Alouds, HOD encourages kids to think for themselves and come up with a multitude of different answers that are all correct. My older son, using CTC, uses the internet and other resources once a week to research a period in history (or a battle, etc) and answer questions (that are not just obvious from the text). In DITHR, students are encouraged to think of several possible answers and there is no "right" or "wrong" answer.

 

You may want to go to the HOD board and ask this specific question in regards to HOD. I know you will get a lot more/better answers than I can give from Carrie, Julie, and others who have used more guides than I have. :)

[melmichigan]

I have a friend whose daughter used SL through Core 100 and she credits SL with her daughter's ability to think for herself and formulate her own opinions. She is also very strong in literary analysis, which my friend credits SL for as well.

 

I would credit the way your friend used the curriculum with her daughter being able to think for herself and formulate her own opinions. :) Through Core 7 the IG is written to the parent, not the child. (I haven't yet finished reading the Core 100 IG, the notes are extremely lengthy and my time is elsewhere right now so I can't say to much about that core right now, other than dang, I wish they could have found a spine they agreed with more so there weren't as many notes. ;))

 

I also found it interesting that your friend credits SL with strong literary analysis. I wouldn't say SL is strong on literary analysis, and concerns over that topic are often brought up with regularity on the SL boards, not as big of a deal in the younger years but becoming more of a concern as you hit middle school/high school age. SL is strong in giving you a list of good books, and helping to develop a love of reading through exposure to books you may not have otherwise read.