Jump to content

Menu

Colleges that Change Lives-"Today's 'Learning Disabled' Will Be Tomorrow's Gifted"


Recommended Posts

"And the SATs Obsolescence"-by Loren Pope

 

This book is amazing and as I read I keep thinking of these threads-

 

pg 22

 

"Even better, the people with learning problems tend to mature more slowly, to be the latebloomers, but they also tend to be the truly gifted. Contrary to what parents usually think, late blooming is often a bonus; in nature, the most sophisticated kinds of life take the longest to mature."

 

He also goes on to reference the work of Thomas G West, author of the books: In the Mind's Eye and Thinking Like Einstein (both author and son are dyslexic).

 

quoting page 24 of Colleges:

 

"Stressing the importance of visual rather than verbal skills, he [West] says dyslexia is called "the MIT disease" because it is so prevalent there, that a British Nobel Laureate said dyslexia enabled him to win the award, and that three-quarters of a London art school's students were dyslexic. And he points out that Einstein's creativity declined dramatically when he started using mathematics instead of his earlier visual thinking."

 

West also says that too much pressure for these kids is counter productive.

 

He does seems to disagree with himself in later chapters though, where he highlights colleges and lauds their large amounts of required writing and adds his own belief that clear writing is clear thinking.

 

And, I must say, in the colleges that he highlights as being the best at turning out scientists, writers, Drs...the students themselves say that they write a lot. He talks about why these small colleges surpass the Ivies in success of students and the special relationships between the profs and students that propel the students to greatness and success. These are not the vast student manufacturing plants that you watch about/read about in Declining by Degrees and the Academically Adrift article.

 

I'd like to go to Marlboro, myself :D

 

Has anyone else read this book? What did you think?

Edited by justamouse
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Even better, the people with learning problems tend to mature more slowly, to be the latebloomers, but they also tend to be the truly gifted. Contrary to what parents usually think, late blooming is often a bonus; in nature, the most sophisticated kinds of life take the longest to mature."

 

 

I have not read the book. But I highly doubt that everybody who has a learning disability turns out to be gifted at some later point. I would be interested to see a study that proves that.

(There are studies that prove that dyslexia and other learning disabilities are independent of intelligence - used to dispel the notion that people with LDs are less intelligent. But I have not heard of any who correlate intelligence and LDs the other way around.)

 

Einstein's creativity declined dramatically when he started using mathematics instead of his earlier visual thinking."

 

How does the author measure Einstein's creativity to come up with such a statement? Does he have enough mathematical knowledge to understand the creativity in Einstein's mathematical theories???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have not read the book. But I highly doubt that everybody who has a learning disability turns out to be gifted at some later point. I would be interested to see a study that proves that.

(There are studies that prove that dyslexia and other learning disabilities are independent of intelligence - used to dispel the notion that people with LDs are less intelligent. But I have not heard of any who correlate intelligence and LDs the other way around.)

 

 

 

How does the author measure Einstein's creativity to come up with such a statement? Does he have enough mathematical knowledge to understand the creativity in Einstein's mathematical theories???

 

Those are not Pope's assertions, but Thomas G West, whose blog is here

 

http://inthemindseyedyslexicrenaissance.blogspot.com/

 

and here are some of his creds

 

http://krasnow.gmu.edu/trustees/biotw.html

 

Here's his linkedin bio

 

 

Thomas G. West is the author of In the Mind’s Eye (1991 and 1997) and Thinking Like Einstein (2004). A second edition of In the Mind’s Eye was published in September 2009 with a new Introduction from Oliver Sacks, MD. The book has had 15 printings, been selected as one of the “best of the best†for the year by the American Library Association and has been translated into both Japanese (1994) and Chinese (2004). In connection with In the Mind's Eye and his second book, Thinking Like Einstein, West has been invited to give talks for scientific, medical, art, design, computer and business groups in the U.S. and overseas, including groups in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Hong Kong, Taiwan and eleven European countries. He is now working on a third book on highly talented dyslexics, visual thinkers and the rise of computer graphics technologies -- this one is to include Jack Horner (dyslexic advisor for the three Jurassic Park films and professor of paleontology), a dyslexic Caltech molecular biologist who helped to start the biotech revolution (designing new sequencing machines, providing the ideas for 7 new biotech companies and developing bold new theories 12 years ahead of everyone else in the field) and a family in England with (over five generations) many dyslexics and many visual thinkers and four winners of the Nobel Prize in physics.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up West- but I have not come across any evidence that he understands Einstein's mathematical formulation of the general relativity theory thoroughly enough to judge that this is a decline in creativity.

The general theory of relativity is one of the most creative and abstract theories, and many theoretical physicists do NOT fully understand it. So, unless he has studied it thoroughly enough to appreciate it as what it is, I wonder how he can throw out statements like this. Particularly to an audience which is naturally not qualified to verify this assessment.

 

I do not wish to dispute his findings about dyslexics and about visual thinking - it is the sentence about Einstein that irritates me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up West- but I have not come across any evidence that he understands Einstein's mathematical formulation of the general relativity theory thoroughly enough to judge that this is a decline in creativity.

The general theory of relativity is one of the most creative and abstract theories, and many theoretical physicists do NOT fully understand it. So, unless he has studied it thoroughly enough to appreciate it as what it is, I wonder how he can throw out statements like this. Particularly to an audience which is naturally not qualified to verify this assessment.

 

I do not wish to dispute his findings about dyslexics and about visual thinking - it is the sentence about Einstein that irritates me.

 

I think it probably comes from the family

and a family in England with (over five generations) many dyslexics and many visual thinkers and four winners of the Nobel Prize in physics.
that he researched for the book that that information came from--though that is just my own best guess.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have not read the book. But I highly doubt that everybody who has a learning disability turns out to be gifted at some later point. I would be interested to see a study that proves that.

(There are studies that prove that dyslexia and other learning disabilities are independent of intelligence - used to dispel the notion that people with LDs are less intelligent. But I have not heard of any who correlate intelligence and LDs the other way around.)

 

 

In my opinion, the traditional school model often masks the gifts of students who have LDs. Not everyone who has an LD is academically gifted, but even when LD students are gifted they are often treated as if they are stupid. By definition, people with LDs have at least average intelligence, yet many people still think that LD is just another word for dumb. I still remember how kids with LDs were treated in the schools I attended, and now that I have kids with LDs, my heart breaks for those kids from my schools. More recently, I talked to the school administrator of a local charter school about the possibility of my 9 yo attending the school next year. She was practically moaning on the phone about my dd's placement and the results of her latest standardized tests. Yet all of the professionals in my dd's life are thrilled with the progress she's made in the past 1-2 years. My oldest dd's boyfriend's little sister goes to this particular charter school, so I asked their mom if I was imagining the administrator's attitude. She said that K-3 was great, but LD students are truly not welcome in the grade 4-8 dept, and I was not imagining anything. They will probably remove their dd next year and send her to a private school that has a special ed dept and offers accomodations. I know what the law is regarding what my dd is entitled to from public school, but as long as we have other options, I won't send her to a place where her self-esteem will be battered.

 

I think the modern emphasis on the giftedness of people with LDs is an attempt to break stereotypes and encourage people with LDs to discover whatever gifts or talents they have, and I see that as a positive thing. I was one of those people who believed a lot of myths about LDs, and having two dyslexic kids has been eye-opening for me. However, I think it's fair to say that some authors overstate their case or fail to adequately define their personal definition of "gifts" or "gifted."

 

I haven't read the book referenced in the op, but I've added it to my wishlist on paperbackswap. Thomas West will be the keynote speaker at the NC-IDA dyslexia conference next month. I am looking forward to hearing him speak.

Edited by LizzyBee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I read it a couple of years ago. I thought he was right on track, especially for boys. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how other LD's like Auditory Processing Disorder, are going to pan out as students with those problems mature. I do think that reading/writing is ideal for someone in that situation (as my older son is); I'm just not sure that the professors are going to be understanding of his oral language problems - we'll see. He's at one of those "colleges that change lives", so we'll see......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have not read the book. But I highly doubt that everybody who has a learning disability turns out to be gifted at some later point. I would be interested to see a study that proves that.

(There are studies that prove that dyslexia and other learning disabilities are independent of intelligence - used to dispel the notion that people with LDs are less intelligent. But I have not heard of any who correlate intelligence and LDs the other way around.)

 

 

 

:iagree: I think the two are totally independent. From my limited experience I've seen a few I'd consider gifted, a few I'd consider less intelligent, and many that would fall in the average range (talking pure intelligence, not traditional academic ability).

 

I think what makes a person hit the "greatness" realm often comes from a drive within - not their pedigree, not their schooling (think George Washington Carver - one of my personal heroes), not their LD or lack thereof, not their inborn connections. It's just a drive within that keeps them pushing for more whether in art, literature, business or any field. A college education is often a part of it, but it doesn't "cause" anything. It's just another path they've chosen to utilize in their quest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you're just looking at dyslexia, I think that the average IQ of dyslexics is 110. Of course, by definition someone diagnosed with dyslexia must have an average+ IQ.

 

There are some phenomenally gifted dyslexics out there. Thomas West has written a lot about them, but also check out what Brock and Fernette Eide have to say. In fact, they have a book coming out this year called The Dyslexic Advantage that discusses this exact thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that to say that kids with LD's are all gifted is silly on its face. However, there is some truth there. When one part of the brain doesn't function well, the other parts tend to compensate. The compensation may result in superior functioning of that part of the brain. Additionally, kids with LD's have childhood challenges to overcome. It is true that kids who had to learn "overcoming" skills as kids (whether of LD's, poverty,etc.) end up stronger as adults than kids who sailed through childhood. I also believe that it is true that each human being has gifts that contribute to humanity, and that our current educational system is woefully inadequate at finding and developing them unless they are traditional academic skills. Being successful academically doesn't always translate to being successful in life. Some of those "average" kids or kids with LD's may actually have the better gift-set for life success.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...