Strange conversation yesterday (sorry, this got really long)

[Amy in Orlando]

I'm still trying to process a conversation from yesterday afternoon. I'm hoping you all can give me some perspective.

 

We were invited to a pool party/bbq at the house of one of our friends from scouts. The people there were all people we have known for the past 10 years or so through scouts (and all the kids). When we arrived, I joined a group of women sitting by the pool. I'm not close friends with any of them, but I consider them friends and would trust my kids to any of them (and have). In turn, their boys all spend a tremendous amount of time at our house and I thoroughly enjoy them.

 

The subject of our older sons came up and how quickly this close group of four boys is approaching earning their Eagle Scout badge. One woman looked at me and said "Now, don't take this the wrong way ..." (Well, when has anyone ever said anything good that started with those words?) She went on to tell me how my sons, especially my oldest, have an "unfair advantage" since they are homeschooled. She explained that my oldest was too independent and made the other boys look bad when dealing with adults and when he is placed in a position of leadership. HUH?

 

I was kind of stunned and confused. The rest of the women sitting there were completely quiet. I had that feeling that this has been a topic of conversation in the past (these women are all in leadership positions in the troop and spend a lot of time together - I'm not because, in the past, dh's job didn't give me that option and quite frankly, I am better at offering behind- the-scene support to the group.)

 

I said I didn't understand what she was saying and asked for an example. Her example involved my son questioning the way something had always been done, respectfully from what I understood, and offered a new way of packing the troop's trailer for large campouts. He then volunteered to do the work in implementing this. I said I didn't see how this was a bad thing and that I thought that was kind of the point of scouts.

 

She explained to me that it put pressure on the other boys to "do more." I don't see it that way at all. Each of the boys she was referring to has very different strengths and weaknesses and from what I can see they're all becoming really great young men. She went on to explain that since my son doesn't have to "jump through all the hoops" of high school, he's not learning to do things "the way everyone else does." I just looked around the group and said, "Well, I don't really see what's wrong with that." And, I used my youngest son (who was trying to ride the host family's incredible swimming dog) as a distraction to move out of the group.

 

No one said anything else, the rest of the afternoon was fun for all of us. But, I'm not sure what to think. I respect each of the other families and their choices for their sons. Homeschooling is really not a typical topic of conversation with these parents or their kids. By the time we came home yesterday evening, I was feeling very defensive. These people have known us for a long time. They know my kids. I cringe at the thought of them talking about my son and complaining amongst themselves.

 

My plan is to do nothing and continue being friendly and encouraging my son and the other boys to finish up the Eagle Scout requirements. But, I feel like everything has changed, kwim? Homeschooling high school has been hard work (just our first year) and I'm certainly not going to spend time teaching my sons to "jump through hoops" and accept the status quo if they have a valid reason to speak up (and do it in a respectful way).

 

Any suggestions, thoughts? I know part of this (incredibly LONG :tongue_smilie:) post is more about me feeling like I'm in 8th grade again and the clique-y girls are talking behind my back and I really need to get over that.

[klmama]

I, too, would be stunned. It sounds like some nitpicking out of jealousy, to me. Still, I think you need to take away from this the most important things, the good things that this woman recognized in your ds:

 

1. Your son has an advantage because he is homeschooled. (Good choice, Mom!)

2. He is independent.

3. He deals well with adults.

4. He takes on leadership roles.

5. He is willing to do the work needed to see that things work well.

 

You were absolutely right - that is the point of scouts. It's the point of homeschooling, too! Be proud. Stand tall. Look them all in the eye and smile! And feel sorry for this woman because she feels so inferior. It isn't that her ds has to work harder to measure up, it's that she thinks he should. Totally different story.

[Barb_]

Wow. Just wow. Amy, I don't even know what to say. At first I thought she was the type who comes with a faulty filter. I used to have a friend like that who just blurted out whatever she was thinking and then had to backpedal, but this sounded almost premeditated. Like they'd discussed ahead of time whether anything should be said and she took it upon herself to confront you head on. I'm shaking my head over here. If it makes you feel any better, I think you handled the situation with more grace than most people could have managed.

 

Barb

[JennifersLost]

I wasn't there and I don't want to read anything into this but here's what I'm "hearing".

 

I see two possibilities:

 

One is that your son just pissed her off and she's trying to tell you in a nice way. Could his "helpfulness" have been annoying? I know MY teenagers pull way more stuff with other adults than they do at home. Maybe he came off as a know-it-all unintentionally.

 

The other is that she's totally insecure about her own kid. Maybe she's reaching that point where she's thinking - Oh, my goodness, maybe my kid won't go to college, maybe I should have homeschooled him....AAAACK!

 

I would be inclined to investigate my kid's behavior a bit, but if nothing seems amiss there just chalk it up to her having a bad day.

[WTMindy]

I'm so sorry. I hate things like that. I might be tempted to email her and say something like, "After our conversation, I was confused by something you said. Were you saying that ds doesn't know how to jump through hoops as a negative thing or a positive thing? It seems to me that this is a positive quality and the way you said it made it seem like a negative quality. I was wondering if you could clarify that for me a little. I am hoping that he will develop leadership qualities through this, but please let me know if he is every disrespectful in any way....etc."

[dangermom]

Wow, that's weird. I guess I haven't got anything constructive to say, except that you can be proud of your boys and the job you're doing! I think your response was very good; you were put on the spot, but you responded calmly and rationally, and I think just your one-sentence response was very good.

 

But I would be feeling disturbed about that conversation too, and I don't know what you can do about that. :sad:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I, too, would be stunned. It sounds like some nitpicking out of jealousy, to me. Still, I think you need to take away from this the most important things, the good things that this woman recognized in your ds:

 

1. Your son has an advantage because he is homeschooled. (Good choice, Mom!)

2. He is independent.

3. He deals well with adults.

4. He takes on leadership roles.

5. He is willing to do the work needed to see that things work well.

 

You were absolutely right - that is the point of scouts. It's the point of homeschooling, too! Be proud. Stand tall. Look them all in the eye and smile! And feel sorry for this woman because she feels so inferior. It isn't that her ds has to work harder to measure up, it's that she thinks he should. Totally different story.

 

Ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto! Your son sounds like a wonderful candidate for an Eagle scout. Your son has learned to be independent, to deal well with adults, to take on leadership roles and to work hard - he has not learned to avoid all hoops. I'm quite sure there must have been a least a few hoops in scouting in the process of reaching this level. I'm pretty sure that your son is going through the hoops of modern society - learning to drive with all the hoops the DMV has to offer, perhaps? I don't remember all the details of your curriculum but I don't remember you being an unschooler - so there must be some hoops in your homeschool curriculum as well (and now that I think of it there would be some for an unschooler as well - if they choose to pursue certain lines of study they also choose the hoops that go along with it).

[Carol in Cal.]

The story sounds more like the jealous side than the 'fresh' side, but both are worth evaluating.

 

You don't seem at all like the type of homeschooler who would imply that others are wrong not to homeschool (quite the contrary!), but that doesn't mean that some won't feel judged just by the fact that you are doing this.

 

I had a vegetarian roommate for a while when I was in my twenties, and I felt guilty eating meat in front of her even though she didn't blame me or even talk about it. It was all in my head. I would not do that anymore, but I wonder if those women are maybe young enough create that conflict in their own heads. I know that I run into that at church sometimes.

 

For what it's worth, I think that you dealt very graciously with a very tough situation. I think that if they had something to say to you they should not have done that in public.

[Vida Winter]

Don't worry for a minute that you have done a less than fantastic job with your boys. She's probably just being jealous.

 

You handled the situation with grace. That is more than I would have done. Grrrr.

[Unicorn.]

You should take it as a compliment, even though she didn't mean it that way. You are exactly right in thinking that he is doing what a scout should. I personally believe that she is jealous of your son's maturity. Keep encouraging your son to be just as he is. He sounds like Eagle Scout material to me!

[gardenschooler]

I would address the issue as it was presented, and ignore the fact that she's mistaken (and obviously, jealous). Decision-making abilities and the confidence to follow through with them aren't automatic by-products of homeschooling.

 

It has everything to do with what the kids' role at home is, though. Are they encouraged to help come up with solutions for things at home? Are they expected to? Are they treated like someone who, once in a while, might actually have a good idea? Are they given any responsibility for figuring things out on their own?

 

I would tell her that I would like to get together with her and the other moms for a sincere talk on ways to foster independence and leadership skills in their boys. I would honestly try to offer some helpful tips - just things you do with your family that have helped make your son the confident young man he is. Giving him responsibility, the ability to make decisions, and not treating him like a small child are all things I've read about your life that you really do put into action. You could be a big help to them - there is obviously something you know how to do that they don't have a handle on.

 

I would side-step any arguments of your ability to do that so many more hours per day because of homeschooling, or the fact that yours doesn't have to deal with endless rules 'just because'. Teach them how to instill in their boys what they see in yours. Really try to help them see that there are simple things they can do all the time, at home, in life. School is beside the point, even if they're trying to make that the point. It's just not.

 

And then rise above it. Women will be women, after all. :D Somehow, some way, this conversation arose because of their own feelings of inadequacy. All you can do is offer to share what you know, and be the bigger person. Be the gracious one - someone sure has to, and it's not looking like it's going to be them. :tongue_smilie:

 

People never cease to amaze me.

[Kay in Cal]

Sounds like jealousy to me as well....

 

My own personal take on dealing with criticism of my family (a not-infrequent occurance for pastoral families) is to acknowledge and reframe it; ie:

"Your son is so loud, how do you stand it?" "Yes, we just cherish his exuberance!"

"Your husband isn't very involved in XYZ at church." "Yes, I love that he's so committed to raising our children!"

You get the picture. These are taken from my experience, but it does seem to work fairly well in a conversation. In other words, you don't "recognize" that the comment is intended as criticism, but affirm thier observation as legitimate, and then reframe it as a positive characteristic. Takes the wind right out of thier sails, if done with a smile and enough "bean dip"!

 

As to feeling better about it later... I still come home and fume and fume. Why can't everyone just love and cherish my family as much as I do? Cause they are so great, you know?!

[Mrs Mungo]

You should take it as a compliment, even though she didn't mean it that way. You are exactly right in thinking that he is doing what a scout should. I personally believe that she is jealous of your son's maturity. Keep encouraging your son to be just as he is. He sounds like Eagle Scout material to me!

 

I completely agree with this.

 

She can't see how *INSANE* it is tell someone they have a done a fantastic parenting job and raised a fine, helpful, independent, thoughtful, hard-working son and that he therefore has an unfair advantage? Isn't that the POINT of doing a good job as a parent??!?! He DOES have an unfair advantage over children without those qualities. Not just in scouts but in life. That isn't the fault of you or your son.

[Aubrey]

She can't see how *INSANE* it is tell someone they have a done a fantastic parenting job and raised a fine, helpful, independent, thoughtful, hard-working son and that he therefore has an unfair advantage? Isn't that the POINT of doing a good job as a parent??!?! He DOES have an unfair advantage over children without those qualities. Not just in scouts but in life. That isn't the fault of you or your son.

 

Nah, this is definitely Amy's fault. She could have done a worse job w/ her ds if she'd *tried.* ;)

[Mrs Mungo]

Nah, this is definitely Amy's fault. She could have done a worse job w/ her ds if she'd *tried.* ;)

 

 

BAD AMY! Why can't you do a crap job as a parent like everyone else!? :lol:

[Aubrey]

BAD AMY! Why can't you do a crap job as a parent like everyone else!? :lol:

 

Exactly! :D (And isn't she the soap lady, too? Why I bet her teenage sons even SMELL good. The NERVE.)

[kimmyandgracie]

BAD AMY! Why can't you do a crap job as a parent like everyone else!? :lol:

 

Exactly! :D (And isn't she the soap lady, too? Why I bet her teenage sons even SMELL good. The NERVE.)

 

LOL! Your son sounds like a great kid. That lady's just jealous.

[Apiphobic]

She went on to tell me how my sons, especially my oldest, have an "unfair advantage" since they are homeschooled. She explained that my oldest was too independent and made the other boys look bad when dealing with adults and when he is placed in a position of leadership. HUH?

 

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a mom at the pool when dc were on a swim team. Somehow we got onto the topic of homeschooling and I remember her saying something about the unfairness of homeschoolers being able to finish high school before their peers. It had nothing to do with their ability or whether or not they'd succeed, it was just that she didn't think it was right that they should finish before kids their own age.

 

And I remember thinking, "Wow! Let's just hold them back because we wouldn't want other kids to feel inferior or anything." Kinda like some people who don't mind if their kids are standouts and accomplish great things, but it's not okay if somebody else's kid does a stellar job. Well, then, they're just showing off or must've had a little help on the side or the right connections.

 

And isn't it ironic that we were discussing this during a swim team practice where competition is quite heavy? Should we change the standards for winning competitions because it wouldn't be fair for someone to finish before another who's the same age?

 

It's nice that this is the only thing she could come up with as a disadvantage of homeschooling. Notice it's not a disadvantage for the homeschooled child. It's irrelevant because even if it is the case that a homeschooled student outshines a non-homeschooled student, it's not your responsibility or problem to fix. Or even to feel guilty about! You're doing what's best for your kids and your family. If they feel their dc are being outperformed, then they need to do something to adjust it -- not blame you. That'd be like Ford complaining that Honda (or some other foreign car) outperforms them and expecting Honda to lower its standards so Ford doesn't get left behind in the dust. (Not that I really care about Ford or Honda or Toyota or whatever. Just using it as an analogy.)

 

Try not to let it drive you crazy. You've got enough going on to accomplish that goal, eh? ;)

[Amy in Orlando]

:001_smile: I love that so many of you are up and willing to answer my post! I'm going to just go through the replies one by one, if that's ok (rather than adding another bunch of responses to this post).

 

Kidlovingmom - Thank you for pointing out the positives! That was nice to read.

BarbF - I am glad you saw the pre-meditative quality to the conversation. It makes me feel less paranoid.

JennifersLost - My reaction was the same as yours - my son is 15 and I find him to be a bit (a lot) obnoxious lately. But, in this instance, I heard about it two months ago and the adult leaders that told me about it were thrilled. They were not the least bit insulted.

WTMindy - I'm fighting this instinct now because I KNOW I would have heard immediately if he was in any way disrespectful. The troop is big on that. Also, dh is very active this year and he would have seen it.

DangerMom - thank you (love your screen-name btw)

Jean - Thank you so much. We follow TWTM and my son jumps trhough tons of hoops on a daily basis (And, I'd argue I set my hoops pretty high). He actually jumps through multiple hoops on a daily basis (his lawn business, tae kwon do, church).

CarolinCA - LOL - one of my sons is a vegetarian and I feel like you did with your roommate when I make a "meat-heavy" meal. My son doesn't care in the least. But, so much goes on in my head.

I DO wish they had just stopped over here one afternoon and aired their grievances in a less public way. What bugs me the most is that I'm sure not one of them has given that conversation a second thought, while I sit here agonizing. LOL

Dana & Unicorn - Thank you both! Mostly, I love our life and homeschooling is simply not an issue. But, I hate feeling the need to defend myself after all this time.

Gardenschooler - GREAT IDEA! I'm not terribly confident, but I'm going to think on this a lot. I think there is even a badge (Family Life?) that works on this stuff. I could help with that. One thing that always strikes me is that when the "other" boys are here is how willing they are to do anything I ask. They unload and put away groceries (mid-basketball game), wash vegetables, set the table, collect dirty dishes, whatever I ask. No biggie. Their moms are stunned by this. Maybe I can build from that? Thank you for this post. Gives me a direction to put my energy.

Kay - you are sooooo good. Can you come back to Florida and coach me on this technique? You make it sound so easy. ;)

Mrs. Mungo - I so appreciate this from someone whose quote includes St. Francis kicking babies and whose picture is a toast to Mike's! Seriously. Thank you.

Aubrey/Mungo/K&G - OK - you guys have sent me to bed laughing! Thank you! And, ftr, my boys DO smell pretty good. :lol:

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Perhaps you could compile a list of resources about homeschooling, and offer it to the other mothers (especially the one who spoke). You could just say that you were unaware of some of the advantages your son had over their sons, and that you would be happy to help any of them close the gap by showing them how to homeschool!

 

This woman reminds me of a character in Atlas Shrugged. James Taggert was his name, I think. He was a world-class whiner. Did you read that book?

[Alice]

I don't have much to add, except to say that I am also impressed with how you handled it. And your son sounds like a great kid. I hope my guys one day are "independent, able to talk to adults and able to assume leadership roles"!

[MomofSeven]

(that's what you get for going to bed early), but my one comment is this:

 

What do these moms want you to do about it? Tell your son to stop excelling, showing leadership, implementing his innovative ideas? Seriously, I'm curious to know what they want you to do? Drop scouts?

 

Even beyond the pettiness and ludicrousy of the situation I just can't figure out what they hoped to accomplish by sharing this opinion with you. Clearly, there's not much you can do, afterall your son is his own person and almost an adult at that. Would you even tell him that his excellent behavior is undermining the others in the group (I say this completely tongue in cheek).

 

Just bewildered...to the point that I don't even think another cup of java will help me understand this woman's point of view.

 

But, fwiw, I would just carry on as always. She's clearly staked out her opinion, and I doubt "reasoning" with her will change her mind.

 

I just hope my sons grow to be such superstars...you're doing an awesome job.

 

-Amy

[Marie in Oh]

but there is a ton of jealosy in the pack. THe pack mater's son is squirrely and ill-behaved, and his mom is always making snide remarks that my son is so good because he's homeschooled in a house full of girls-- that he's be different if I sent him to school with the boys. Yep-- that's why we don't. He has won the pinewood derby the last 3 years-- dh is an engineer which doesn't hurt, but ds does much of the work. I heard her say to her mil after the race -- he always wins. They think becasue he is homeschooled he has an unfair advantage-- more time to work on projects and earn acheivements. Yep again. That is why we homeschool honey. Your son sounds lovely and you should be proud. People just don't know what to do with kids who can relate to adults and can think outside the latest video game craze. They criticize and say it is because of homeschooling when they are really just jealous and wishing their own dc were as responsible and personable. You've done a great job.

[Lisa in Jax]

Amy,

 

I understand how frustrating/annoying these conversations are. Still, I had to LOL when I thought about what she's actually saying: "Your choice of homeschooling has raised a SOCIALIZED, mature young man who has critical thinking skills." This one conversation shows that "socialization" with homeschoolers is a non-issue for many kids. Your son is walking, talking, thinking proof that home schooled kids can become well-adjusted, well-spoken adults.

 

So, tough noogies for her. Her kids may or may not be as socialized, responsible, independent and "thinking" as your son. If they aren't, it's a result of *their* choices (to PS, etc.). If a well-adjusted "well-trained" kid makes her kid look bad by comparison, it's not your problem. ;-)

 

Hugs,

 

Lisa

[Kelli in TN]

(that's what you get for going to bed early), but my one comment is this:

 

What do these moms want you to do about it? Tell your son to stop excelling, showing leadership, implementing his innovative ideas? Seriously, I'm curious to know what they want you to do? Drop scouts?

 

Even beyond the pettiness and ludicrousy of the situation I just can't figure out what they hoped to accomplish by sharing this opinion with you. Clearly, there's not much you can do, afterall your son is his own person and almost an adult at that. Would you even tell him that his excellent behavior is undermining the others in the group (I say this completely tongue in cheek).

 

 

 

Really. You should probably try something like "Oh, I never realized this was going on. I will definitely have a talk with him about this behavior. I will let him know that when the scout law says "helpful" it doesn't mean to actually BE helpful. The boy takes everything so literally."

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

Perhaps those women were reflecting this thought:

 

"An attempt should be made to redress the present overemphasis on individualism in current programs....students need to develop a sense of community and collective identity." (Educational Leadership, May 1982)

 

or maybe this:

 

"The school is primarily a social institution. Education being a social process, the school is simply that form of community life in which all those agencies are concentrated that will be most effective in bringing the child to share in the inherited resources of the race, and to use his own powers for social ends. Education therefore, is a process of living and not a preparation for future living." John Dewey

[Kelli in TN]

Perhaps those women were reflecting this thought:

 

"An attempt should be made to redress the present overemphasis on individualism in current programs....students need to develop a sense of community and collective identity." (Educational Leadership, May 1982)

 

or maybe this:

 

"The school is primarily a social institution. Education being a social process, the school is simply that form of community life in which all those agencies are concentrated that will be most effective in bringing the child to share in the inherited resources of the race, and to use his own powers for social ends. Education therefore, is a process of living and not a preparation for future living." John Dewey

 

Where did you find those? I think I want to print those out and frame them for my school room!!

 

 

I can look at them everytime I ask myself "Why am I doing this?"

[Alexandra]

I, too, would be stunned. It sounds like some nitpicking out of jealousy, to me. Still, I think you need to take away from this the most important things, the good things that this woman recognized in your ds:

 

1. Your son has an advantage because he is homeschooled. (Good choice, Mom!)

2. He is independent.

3. He deals well with adults.

4. He takes on leadership roles.

5. He is willing to do the work needed to see that things work well.

 

You were absolutely right - that is the point of scouts. It's the point of homeschooling, too! Be proud. Stand tall. Look them all in the eye and smile! And feel sorry for this woman because she feels so inferior. It isn't that her ds has to work harder to measure up, it's that she thinks he should. Totally different story.

 

sounded a whole lot like a compliment! I am sorry that they said those things in that sort of way but I think you handled it great.

[plansrme]

When I feel like people are complaining just for the sake of complaining, I ask, "Well, what do you think I should do about that?" I usually get silence in return because it's usually not something that can or should be corrected.

 

I can only hope that my children are the object of similar "complaints" as they mature. Good job, Mom!

 

Terri

[elegantlion]

I think your son is just setting the bar way too high :D. That's a good thing, IMO. You should be very proud of him.

 

What's this about not "jumping through hoops" in high school? I don't understand that. High school is not a walk in the park.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Ditto becuase I couldnt say it better.

 

I, too, would be stunned. It sounds like some nitpicking out of jealousy, to me. Still, I think you need to take away from this the most important things, the good things that this woman recognized in your ds:

 

1. Your son has an advantage because he is homeschooled. (Good choice, Mom!)

2. He is independent.

3. He deals well with adults.

4. He takes on leadership roles.

5. He is willing to do the work needed to see that things work well.

 

You were absolutely right - that is the point of scouts. It's the point of homeschooling, too! Be proud. Stand tall. Look them all in the eye and smile! And feel sorry for this woman because she feels so inferior. It isn't that her ds has to work harder to measure up, it's that she thinks he should. Totally different story.

[Trivium Academy]

Don't you love how others like to shift their blame onto someone else? You have done nothing wrong, your son has done nothing wrong. This is just jealousy mixed with regret coming from the other parents. All in all, I see at as a very positive conversation for you, not so much for them.

 

It's not fair! (stomp, stomp) Your son is a leader and it makes my son look bad (pout, pout). You must lower your standards, stop your son from being a good example, it makes our sons look bad.

 

The bad part of this is the contention, but you didn't cause it. They just paid you (and your dh) and your son the highest compliment. So shame on them, and good for you! Would YOU ever complain to another parent that their child is making yours look bad by doing what he should? I doubt it. I bet you would use the excelling child's example to encourage yours to excel as well. (I don't know this about you for sure though. :001_smile:)

 

Take the compliment and leave the rest, the rest is their problem not yours. You cannot stop the chit-chat behind your back, you can rise above it and not allow it to bother you. I'd be much bothered by true negative feedback, like if your son was bullying or boasting about his accomplishments to the other kids.

 

As for the friendship you have with these women, they did tell your their concern which shows that they do value your friendship instead of just treating you as a topic of conversation. I would feel good about that as well. Continue on as if the conversation didn't happen b/c all in all, the conversation was more about their shortcomings then it was about you.

[Stacey in MA]

I agree with many of the other posts - your son sounds wonderful, and you should be proud.

 

What in the world does she want you to DO about these complaints of hers? Tell him to stop being so independent? Stop being clever and diligent? Maybe she's looking for advice on how to get HER kid to behave!! Perhaps you could tell her some of your tricks! hee hee!

 

I think the classroom school families (especially with older kids) can get very competitive, and they're used to it. They have been through this type of stuff over the years, over and over again. We as homeschoolers are sort of insulated from it. So when it does pop up here and there by someone so "filter-less" in her stream-of-consciousness mouth, it blindsides us. Just pull her aside and give her a few tips on how you got your son to be so cool!! hee hee!

 

I just want to add that I know you how must feel. For some reason we walk away from these conversations feeling so wronged, so confused and maybe even *gasp* BAD! "What did I do to make her mad?" "Why did she say that - to hurt me?" "Is she right - do people find my kid annoying?" Well, yes, they may, b/c they don't see it for the goodness that it is. They see it as a measure (a bad one) of how THEIR kid is doing. Haven't we all done that in some way?

 

It's sort of like when I see someone with a great manicure. I love it when my nails look great. I wish I have the time, energy, space in my brain to keep that on the list of to-do's (I don't....). So when I'm at an event where I should look nice, and see another mom with great looking nails (hair, clothes, whatever - fill in the blank), I start to hide my own nails, start to belittle the idea of getting my nails done, start to think bad things of her - she should spend her money on better things....she should not be so vain....she must be depriving her kids of her time if she's off getting manicures all the time....she should try looking more "natural", etc.. When in reality, her nails look great, and beautiful, and that is all good. I'm just being - jealous - of what she has, and also being ashamed of what I don't have.

 

I think in the case of schooling though, people take it a little more personally. They think your/our deep thought about schooling choice, and subsequent follow-through (teaching at home), implies bad things about THEM. They realize we are making a conscious choice, usually implying that PS is no good, or at least "not for us". And of course, that is where THEY send their kids. That sort of implies (not globally, but in many cases) that they either didn't put enough thought into THEIR choice, or thought about and it weren't bright enough to realize the problems and shortcomings of PS, or that they just didn't care enough, etc. (FWIW, I think many people don't put that much thought into it - they assume PS is the only and right choice b/c "everyone does it").

 

Anyway, my baby is screaming at me!! No time to proof read - sorry! ;-p Have to run, but hang in there - sounds like you handled it so well. I can understand why you might feel bad, but we are your HS buds and we understand. You are an awesome mom and teacher! A friend used to remind me "water off a duck" - don't let this bother you, OK?

 

Hang in there! - Stacey in MA

 

She

[Jennifer in NH]

I think your son is just setting the bar way too high :D. That's a good thing, IMO. You should be very proud of him.

 

 

:iagree: yes, I was thinking that this woman was actually complaining that your son was actually raising the bar for all the others! How dare he!;) I would for sure take that as a good thing, even if it wasn't meant as one. I sure hope my sons turn out like that. you must be doing a great job!

jenny

[CookieMonster]

I don't know, because I wasn't there, and I don't know these women. But, my first thought when you mentioned that all the other women were quiet was that they didn't necessarily agree with this one vocal woman.

 

BTDT

 

They may have not spoken up because they don't want to turn it into an argument and they want the conversation to end as quickly as possible. Perhaps it's conceivable that these ladies think the speaker is wrong, but have heard her complain so much that they thought it best to clam up and let the subject die.

 

Just my thought...I'm having a Jane Bennett moment.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

Uh.... I think I read them in a book.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

America's Secret Establishment by Anthony Sutton :bigear: ;)

[Michelle in MO]

this gal made, but unfortunately it's one I've heard before, i.e., homeschooling giving kids an "unfair advantage" over other kids.

 

My dad told me that in their region in Arkansas (he's retired) there was a homeschooled student who had won first place in a rather large (perhaps regional) science fair. The other parents and some p.s. officials were complaining that this kid had an "unfair advantage" because he/she was being homeschooled. My dad thought it was jealousy, really, that was underlying some of these comments.

 

I think this could be the case here: there could be a residual "jealousy" some of these parents feel. I've even noticed some parents who seem to feel a real need to explain or justify to me their reasons for not homeschooling, as though by virtue of the fact that we homeschool that we're automatically making a statement against their choice of school for their kids!

[homeschoolmom]

So this woman thinks that slowing one's self down to run with the pack, catering to the lowest common denominator is a good thing? Wow. Whatever happened to reaching for personal best?

 

I'd file this into the 'left-handed compliment' category and just ignore it as best I could.

[Mama Lynx]

I don't know, because I wasn't there, and I don't know these women. But, my first thought when you mentioned that all the other women were quiet was that they didn't necessarily agree with this one vocal woman.

 

BTDT

 

They may have not spoken up because they don't want to turn it into an argument and they want the conversation to end as quickly as possible. Perhaps it's conceivable that these ladies think the speaker is wrong, but have heard her complain so much that they thought it best to clam up and let the subject die.

 

Just my thought...I'm having a Jane Bennett moment.

 

Perhaps they all had their mouths hanging open in shock?

 

Really, Amy, I'm laughing here. The sheer audacity of someone complaining because your son raises the bar :lol: Can I have my son come play with yours, so that he'll rub off on him?

[JFSinIL]

Oooohh, catty, jealous Scout moms! How DARE your son be better than their public-schooled kids!

 

My son, while a Webelo, had a similar experience - his Den Mother told the pack, in front of John, that he only earned more Merit Pins (or whatever they were called - it has been a few years) because he homeschooled.

 

I'd just swell with pride and calmly point out how "proud" you are of your son! Act like they just paid you and your son a big compliment (which they did, although not realizing it). Perhaps take a turn to note some good thing another woman's son had done in Scouts , and commend the whole Scouting experience for being so beneficial for "all our boys". :001_smile:

[Jackie in AR]

Yep, I would love for my sons to hang out with yours for a while, Amy. :001_smile:

 

Sounds like you and your dh are raising a terrific young man, one that most parents would be thrilled to call theirs.

 

Try not to stew over the jealous comments that were made. I know that is easier said than done.

[Mom2legomaniacs]

Geesh, you late nighters really get going after the party poopers go to bed!

 

Amy,

 

Ditto on pretty much everything above. I would be miffed/baffled/annoyed and more by the situation too. Some people can come up with some doozies, can't they.

 

Really, she was paying the ultimate compliment, maybe not intentionally. Can I send my kids to you to raise too? I think you rock! Your kids are awesome, stop making me look like such a slacker, okay.;)

[Murphy101]

The perfect chance to say with all sincerity, "Wow. Thanks! Oh how in the world could I take that badly?! We've always hoped our kids would grow to be the kind of men other men could look to for inspiration and guidance. It's such a comfort to see our homeschooling is paying off. Thank you!"

 

Geez. That was just pure dumb of them. What? They want YOU to feel bad because of their kids' lack of social and leadership skills?:glare:

 

I agree the realtionship won't be the same if that's their perspective.

Just let it go though and be proud of your boy!

[Doran]

While the woman's remark doesn't sound exactly like a compliment, I'd take it as one.

 

I suggest that at your next BBQ, you initiate a conversation with these women about a few of our world's greatest/most repsected leaders. You know, just innocent discussion. You can just pick the "most likely to be named" -- Louis Pasteur, Ghandi, Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Jr., Winston Churchill -- or whomever comes to your mind(s) in the moment.

 

And, for the sake of interesting conversation, after you've mused over how amazing these people were, and how much of an impact they have had on our futures, perhaps you could talk about - as a group of curious and intelligent women - what character traits each of these leaders had in common. Good speakers? Well, yes, I guess so. Relentless in their pursuit of goals? Pretty much. Good smelling? Debatable. Willing to jump through hoops and follow the status quo? Hmmmmm....not seeing it.

 

I often wonder about the mothers of people like those great leaders listed above. I'm guessing they were equally amazing - like you. :001_smile:

[Remudamom]

Wow, I'm with Dana. Mad. I probably would have asked her if she had a problem with my son not being a lobotomized roboton. Or told her "Yea, he has an unfair advantage, who told you life was fair?" (the advantage being he has a mom that willing to bust her fanny to do what she thinks is best for him.)

 

I can think of more things I would have said but you handled it better.

[Jenny in Florida]

As the parent of a couple of gifted children, I run into these sorts of complaints every now and then. And I'm still working on how to respond, if at all.

 

Here's some of what I've found has "worked," either in terms of making other people back off or at least making me feel better.

 

First of all, I tend to like to assure people that my kids have plenty of hoops to jump through and do just as much work as kids in school. I try to say this in an off-hand way and with a smile and a shrug, but I say it. Something like, "Oh, trust me, they have hoops, too. They just have different hoops."

 

Now, if that doesn't do it, you can start listing, again, as though it is no big deal but "since they asked," some of what your kids do at home. In my case, it would sound something like this:

 

"Well, he's taking those online courses, and they require a lot of work for the honors versions. And I'm pretty good a cracking the whip when it comes to writing essays and getting those Latin assignments in on time. And, of course, he's lucky to have activities like scouts where he gets to work on his leadership skills."

 

See, I think a lot of people have this impression that homeschooled kids excel in various activities because they "don't have to do everything else" and "have all that free time." And we all know that they often do have more free time, but it's because homeschooling is more efficient, not because these kids aren't doing anything. I often find folks are suprised to hear just how much homeschoolers do in terms of academics.

 

The other thing I have done to counter this kind of complaint is to turn it around and re-state what they're saying in a positive way. I've done this more often on my son's behalf than my daughter's. I'm not sure whether that is because people complain about him more often (could be) or because I've just gotten better at coping.

 

But, for example, a mom with whom we've been friendly for several years recently mentioned she had "noticed" that my son "just wouldn't let things go." The gist of her comments seemed to want to be sympathetic--how tough it must be for him--but it didn't feel too authentic to me.

 

We have a complicated situation with this particular family. Our sons are friends, both very bright, but we've taken quite different educational paths. So, as hard as I try to avoid it, there is always a certain amount of comparison and competition.

 

I listened while she explained what she meant, and then said I had noticed that, too. I told her, though, that it seemed like those kinds of incidents usually sprung from my son's sense that there had been an injustice done and that I wasn't willing to try and squelch that trait. I acknowledged that it made for some tough times for both him and me, but told her I am proud of how willing he is to stand up for what he believes is right, even with it isn't popular.

 

Then, I smiled and shrugged and admitted that I will be very happy when he learns to be a bit more diplomatic about the whole thing.

 

She hasn't mentioned it to me since.

 

I think your situation might lend itself to this approach.

[lynn]

It could be that your son is a natural born leader PS or hs'd. All kids have different strengths and weaknesses and being a leader and a doer to implement his suggestions is a great characteristic that is just part of who he is. Why would this "pressure" the other boys your son is setting an example if they want to follow or not is up to them to decide.

[lovemywhirlygirls]

I have not read through all of the posts. I began reading and then realized there are lots of posts. Forgive me if I'm repeating anyone else.

 

I would like to encourage you that at every point during the situation, you impressed and encouraged me with your kind and right on responses. I could feel my heart and mind getting a bit defensive for you....but, imvho that would have been an unfortunate outcome of this conversation. I think that your respectful, honest and even encouraging (of the other boys) response just underscores the type of person that you are and that you have taught your boys to be. Your son did nothing wrong. He did everything right. I encourage you to think about that and to let the clumsy opinions of others (the moms in your story...and now me as I read and respond to you) fall away. Don't let your heart and mind get snagged by the processing that others of us are doing. Just keep on keeping on. Sounds like you are on the right track. We can not control how others think or feel or respond (coaching myself here, too), but we are responsible and in control of what we say and do, how we respond etc.

 

I am proud of you and your son....and I don't even know you. Thank you for being a good example!

[Jenny in Florida]

Oh, I meant to share another, similar incident with this same mom.

 

One day, she was watching the kids on our church playground during the service. When I came to collect my son, she commented "sympathetically" on how my son didn't seem to be happy doing what most of the other boys were doing. He always wants to do his own thing, or start some project and recruit everyone else to go along.

 

I smiled, shrugged, sighed a little, and agreed.

 

Then I told her that this was yet another trait I am not willing to try and beat out of him, since I figure it will serve him well in the future. I told her that, in all the research and reading I had done about leaders and innovaters, I had never found one who was happy being one of the crowd. So, sure I work with him on being polite and kind, but I appreciate his ability to think creatively and his enthusiasm for trying new things.

 

Again, she hasn't mentioned this "problem" to me again.

[dragons in the flower bed]

It sounds to me like these women are seeing a difference between your son and their sons and are threatened by the possibility that this means your son's education has been better than their sons. So they found a way to justify what they've done with their sons -- oh, well, they have to learn to follow instructions, jump through hoops, go along with the crowd, you know -- and in so doing, knock down your son -- and Danny will really be at a loss when he gets out in the real world, unlike our sons.

 

It must be awful for them. To feel so much regret about the past 10 years of less-than-ideal parenting that they have to lie to themselves and insult their friends in order to feel okay about it? I feel bad for them.