Right thing to do? Injury related

[simka2]

If you go through with this, you WILL ruin your relationship with the owner of the gym. Is that worth a $1000?

 

 

Not neccessarily. I contained no ill will towards the family that's child was injured. They did what they needed to do, and my policy covered it.

[phathui5]

Why would you approach the gym owner about it?

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Why would you approach the gym owner about it?

 

I'm suspecting I will regret answering this.....because it sounds defensive and conveys more of a sense of entitlement than I mean to, or feel. But, here goes.....

 

I think this has been fairly well explained throughout the thread. It happened on his property. He has insurance for accidents like mine. I have (between the copays I've already paid and the new bill that came today) $1200 worth of expenses.

[TXMomof4]

I would simply talk to the owner about it. He knows you. He knows your situation - as far as being willing to help if needed, reliable, not a trouble maker. If your relationship is that strong, he won't be upset with you asking and you could save yourself a lot of heartache over worrying about it.

[Perry]

If you go through with this, you WILL ruin your relationship with the owner of the gym. Is that worth a $1000?

:confused: If someone injured themselves at my business, and my insurance covered it, I would *want* to help them, especially if it meant saving them $1200.

[AFwife Claire]

I wouldn't because the owner did nothing negligent. It doesn't matter than he could afford it. What if someone slipped in your home and tried to get you to pay for their bills because you could afford it even though you weren't at fault?

 

This is actually how the military health system (Tricare) works now. When we were stationed in Ohio, my son fell in the basement of our friends' house during our church small group meeting. He was 7 and just clumsy, you know? No one's fault. He hit the edge of their coffee table and split open his head, requiring a trip to the base ER and several staples. Because it didn't happen at our own house, Tricare wanted the insurance information of our friends so they could go after their homeowner's insurance. I was livid! I even asked the Tricare guy, "So my friends are liable because they happen to have furniture?! How can anyone ever have friends over?!" and his response--"Don't have people over." Nice.

 

We didn't want our friends' insurance rates to go up, or them to have to pay to meet their deductible, so we covered the cost ourselves--$700. For the son of an active-duty officer in the U.S. Air Force, who was treated at a military medical facility. Grrrr . . . government healthcare. Don't get me started.

[joannqn]

I'm surprised your insurance hasn't gone after his already. Certain diagnostic codes get flagged for further information. They send out a form, usually, asking where the accident happened and will try to get reimbursed for their portion of the claim from the other insurance. From my understanding, based on working at a medical insurance call center, the insurance covering the place of the accident is always primary. It's one of the reasons you must carry liability on your homeowner's insurance. If you friend's child hurts himself while at your house, your homeowner's insurance covers the bills rather than his medical insurance.

[Lovedtodeath]

I would take it to the business owner. IMO, you should be treated as an employee who was injured on the job.

 

Also, how well do you know the business owner? Couldn't you present it to him the same way that you have presented it to us and see what he thinks?

 

One of my bosses paid for my doctor bill (flu) because he felt responsible for his employees and I didn't have the company insurance yet. It was not his responsibility, but he offered.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

If I do go to him, that is exactly what I plan to do.

[Lovedtodeath]

I would take it to the business owner. IMO, you should be treated as an employee who was injured on the job.

 

Also, how well do you know the business owner? Couldn't you present it to him the same way that you have presented it to us and see what he thinks?

 

One of my bosses paid for my doctor bill (flu) because he felt responsible for his employees and I didn't have the company insurance yet. It was not his responsibility, but he offered.

 

If I do go to him, that is exactly what I plan to do.

 

Then, once again, I would. :)

 

Another point, we have a family business. If an employee gets injured on the job and we don't have insurance to cover them (because we were treating them as a contractor and/or they said that they had their own insurance for that) we would still be liable.

[Murphy101]

When I sub or help out, I'm not volunteering, he just "pays" me under the table in a way (usually by way of a credit to DD's account). I could ask to be paid if I wanted, but it's just as easy to take the credit on DD's account.

 

As far as I'm concerned you were working for him, albeit in barter or for free.

 

Yes, his insurance (workers comp or liability) should pay on this.

 

It has nothing to do with whose fault it is. It wasn't anyone's fault.

 

Accidents happen and policies are in place to cover accidents.

 

I would explain to him this is the situation and ask for the paperwork to get the ball rolling for his policy.

[Danestress]

"If a person should be injured, either directly by you or at your place of business, your commercial liability insurance coverage would pay for funeral and medical expenses incurred within a year of the accident. For example, if one of your clients slips and falls at your office and requires medical treatment, your policy would cover the cost of that treatment. Of course, policy limits apply."

 

I'm not sure where this comes from?

[kalanamak]

For the son of an active-duty officer in the U.S. Air Force, who was treated at a military medical facility. Grrrr . . . government healthcare. Don't get me started.

 

It isn't just government, it is ALL insurers.

 

Besides the extra paperwork and back and forthing, I find the idea detrimental to our sense of personal responsibility. Have a problem? Look around for someone else to pay for it. Between the something for nothing lure, and the paper exchanges, more likely fraud will take place, too.

[Murphy101]

There is not a moral high ground to going into avoidable debt you can't afford for an accident you sustained while helping him for free.

 

Frankly, I think it says a lot about his lack of character and professionalism that he didn't offer when the accident happened.

 

At the very least, most businesses would insist on you filling out an accident report as a basic CTB measure.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

"If a person should be injured, either directly by you or at your place of business, your commercial liability insurance coverage would pay for funeral and medical expenses incurred within a year of the accident. For example, if one of your clients slips and falls at your office and requires medical treatment, your policy would cover the cost of that treatment. Of course, policy limits apply."

 

I'm not sure where this comes from?

 

It came from an information section of a insurance website about business insurance.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

There is not a moral high ground to going into avoidable debt you can't afford for an accident you sustained while helping him for free.

 

Frankly, I think it says a lot about his lack of character and professionalism that he didn't offer when the accident happened.

 

At the very least, most businesses would insist on you filling out an accident report as a basic CTB measure.

 

I have heard this a lot!! And would be my motivation for going to him.

 

In his defense, I'm not even sure if he knows it happened at this point.

[mcconnellboys]

Yes, companies do have insurance in case someone falls on their premises due to some obstruction, a wet spot, etc., etc. - something that they would be considered "at fault" for. But no, the insurance is not really intended to cover someone's expenses because they accidentally tripped and fell, etc. without any real cause. Every claim made means that that person's rates will go up in future and after a certain number of claims, they may even be cancelled and it may be more difficult for them to obtain other insurance.

 

You can always work out a payment plan with the hospital. You don't have to pay the thousand dollars all at once and immediately.....

 

Now, if you were asked to work there and were injured in the course of either paid or volunteer work that they asked you to do, then that might be a different matter....

[Lovedtodeath]

There is not a moral high ground to going into avoidable debt you can't afford for an accident you sustained while helping him for free.

 

Frankly, I think it says a lot about his lack of character and professionalism that he didn't offer when the accident happened.

 

At the very least, most businesses would insist on you filling out an accident report as a basic CTB measure.

:iagree:Thank you Martha!

[simka2]

I have heard this a lot!! And would be my motivation for going to him.

 

In his defense, I'm not even sure if he knows it happened at this point.

 

Just wanted to address the other side of this. It is very big of you to realize he may not "know."

 

In the situation I was in where "my" child was injured on someone else's property and I covered all the costs (2 surgeries over 20K) Our relationship was ruined. I think there was a part of her that "needed" to help in the healing/resolution proccess, but because I went in and didn't want to make waves, covered the costs....and because her personality was not to jump in and offer, things went down hill fast. There was this under current of resentment from her that "I" couldn't fix.

 

I really think if she had had some part in covering the costs, she would have felt better about herself and not sabatoged our relationship. I also didn't realize the place of power (believed power) it gave me. People would respond to her with how generous it was of me not to ask for her help with the costs. In essence, she went into debt to me (even though I didn't wish that) and couldn't handle it.

 

I hope that made some sense.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Now, if you were asked to work there and were injured in the course of either paid or volunteer work that they asked you to do, then that might be a different matter....

 

This exactly the case. I was asked to help out. I did.

[AnnaM]

I think asking him to pay reminds me of the lady suing mcdonalds for her hot coffee.

 

Im sorry that you chose to volunteer, Im sorry that you chose to do so in shoes that weren't appropriate for that, and I am sorry that you fell and got hurt but my oppinion is that you need to take some personal responsibility and just learn from it. If it turns out his insurance doesn't pay are you going to go to the shoe company and ask them to pay? or maybe the flooring company? You were volunteering in inappropriate shoes so if blame has to be laid(and it will for insurance purposes) I'm afraid it has to be on you.

 

And saying "oh trust me can afford it" just burns me. Maybe you think he can afford it and maybe he can but that doesn't mean you can expect him to pay for your error in judgment. He may have 700 students but he still has buisness expenses. My parents own a business and someone did this to them years ago. "Well, I got hurt doing something silly (and against policy) and I know you have money so you should pay." They didnt think about the fact that my parents also had to pay for the facility, the payroll, the upkeep, utilities, worked long hard hours building the company and so on. That money was spread so thin that sometimes they didnt take pay checks. Just because you think someone has money doesn't mean you are entitled to it.

 

Now, my other thought is, if you go to him as a friend and a previous employee and tell him what happened and that you are having a hard time affording it, and that you understand it is not his fault and you don't expect him to cover it, but if there was any way he could help...Well that to me seems better than walking in with expectations that he SHOULD cover it. I would definitely go in with the understanding that he might say no and if he does I would walk out and deal with it.

 

Im sorry if I sound mean. I am truly sorry that your wrist was hurt and I hope that it is healing. I just can not stand the lack of personal responsibility that is so rampant these days!

[simka2]

I think asking him to pay reminds me of the lady suing mcdonalds for her hot coffee.

 

Im sorry that you chose to volunteer, Im sorry that you chose to do so in shoes that weren't appropriate for that, and I am sorry that you fell and got hurt but my oppinion is that you need to take some personal responsibility and just learn from it. If it turns out his insurance doesn't pay are you going to go to the shoe company and ask them to pay? or maybe the flooring company? You were volunteering in inappropriate shoes so if blame has to be laid(and it will for insurance purposes) I'm afraid it has to be on you.

 

And saying "oh trust me can afford it" just burns me. Maybe you think he can afford it and maybe he can but that doesn't mean you can expect him to pay for your error in judgment. He may have 700 students but he still has buisness expenses. My parents own a business and someone did this to them years ago. "Well, I got hurt doing something silly (and against policy) and I know you have money so you should pay." They didnt think about the fact that my parents also had to pay for the facility, the payroll, the upkeep, utilities, worked long hard hours building the company and so on. That money was spread so thin that sometimes they didnt take pay checks. Just because you think someone has money doesn't mean you are entitled to it.

 

Now, my other thought is, if you go to him as a friend and a previous employee and tell him what happened and that you are having a hard time affording it, and that you understand it is not his fault and you don't expect him to cover it, but if there was any way he could help...Well that to me seems better than walking in with expectations that he SHOULD cover it. I would definitely go in with the understanding that he might say no and if he does I would walk out and deal with it.

 

Im sorry if I sound mean. I am truly sorry that your wrist was hurt and I hope that it is healing. I just can not stand the lack of personal responsibility that is so rampant these days!

 

He asked her to volunteer and he compensates her for it. It is his responsibilty to make sure he asking someone to do something they can do...safely.

 

But, again this was an accident. And there are specidifc insurance policies that do do not require anyone to be "at fault."

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Im sorry that you chose to volunteer, Im sorry that you chose to do so in shoes that weren't appropriate for that, and I am sorry that you fell and got hurt but my oppinion is that you need to take some personal responsibility and just learn from it. If it turns out his insurance doesn't pay are you going to go to the shoe company and ask them to pay? or maybe the flooring company? You were volunteering in inappropriate shoes so if blame has to be laid(and it will for insurance purposes) I'm afraid it has to be on you.

 

And saying "oh trust me can afford it" just burns me. Maybe you think he can afford it and maybe he can but that doesn't mean you can expect him to pay for your error in judgment. He may have 700 students but he still has buisness expenses. My parents own a business and someone did this to them years ago. "Well, I got hurt doing something silly (and against policy) and I know you have money so you should pay." They didnt think about the fact that my parents also had to pay for the facility, the payroll, the upkeep, utilities, worked long hard hours building the company and so on. That money was spread so thin that sometimes they didnt take pay checks. Just because you think someone has money doesn't mean you are entitled to it.

 

Now, my other thought is, if you go to him as a friend and a previous employee and tell him what happened and that you are having a hard time affording it, and that you understand it is not his fault and you don't expect him to cover it, but if there was any way he could help...Well that to me seems better than walking in with expectations that he SHOULD cover it. I would definitely go in with the understanding that he might say no and if he does I would walk out and deal with it.

 

Im sorry if I sound mean. I am truly sorry that your wrist was hurt and I hope that it is healing. I just can not stand the lack of personal responsibility that is so rampant these days!

 

I hope that I haven't conveyed the attitude (entitlement) you're attributing to me here throughout this thread, because it is FAR FAR FAR from anything I'm feeling or thinking. I did say that if I was going to go talk to him I would not push, convey entitlement, demand, etc.

 

I also stated that my comment regarding his ability to pay and his finances was in an effort to better describe the situation, not because I feel "he has the money, he should pay". I do know how much is in his account, how much he transferred to his personal account, and how much he has coming in as well as going out. So, I can say with certainty that $1000 isn't much to him, however, as I said before, that doesn't make it RIGHT.

 

I'm sorry if I haven't spoken clearly or have put out an attitude of deserving the money or greed. It was not my intention at all.

 

ETA: I know it's going to come up...HOW I know so much about his finances. It was disclosed to me in a personal conversation recently.

[Murphy101]

Personally, I wish insurance didn't exist at all. I think it makes medical care for what should be low cost issues outrageous.

 

But it does and that's the frame we have to suck it up and deal with.

 

This is a business and he should run it as one.

 

Which means if someone - anyone - gets hurt on the premises, he should know about it and an injury report filled out.

 

This is pretty basic, so I'm not having much sympathy for him at the moment.

 

If she had been an actual employee, she would have been required and or supplied with proper shoes and been doing her designated job instead of getting his mail for him. (well one would hope. Shoddy business practices do abound though, so who knows.)

 

But he gets all the advantage of free labor that he makes no requirements or provisions for, plus he apparently doesn't have basic CYA business procedures in place - but somehow she is the bad guy for needing help with the expense of an accident that occurred as a direct result of working for free for him?

 

Nope. Not buying that. It doesn't sound anything like the McD coffee lawsuit.

 

It sounds like crap happens, but because she worked for free, she is the only one that has to suffer the stink.

[AnnaM]

He asked her to volunteer and he compensates her for it. It is his responsibilty to make sure he asking someone to do something they can do...safely.

 

But, again this was an accident. And there are specidifc insurance policies that do do not require anyone to be "at fault."

 

 

Not in this instance from what I am reading. What I read is that this time she was doing it without being asked. If she had been "officially" volunteering then I would suggest she read the company policy on injuries sustained while volunteering. I also suspect she would have been in more appropriate shoes.

 

Yes it was an accident, but it was one that happened when she made a error in judgement, during a time when she was not specifically asked to volunteer. If I trip over my own feet in a grocery store Im not going to ask the grocery store to cover my hospital bills. That's just rediculous.

[Murphy101]

Also I think how his finances are has nothing to do with anything.

 

If he can easily afford it - great.

 

If not, well he is in the same boat has her and will have to work it out, same as she is trying to do.

 

Again, this is business.

 

She isn't asking for help to screw him out of as much as possible bc she thinks he can afford.

 

She is asking for help bc she can't afford to pay the bill and it happened while working for him on his premises.

 

If they are friends, even more reason he should be happy to help.

 

If they aren't, even more reason for him to handle it in a professional manner.

[AnnaM]

It sounds like crap happens, but because she worked for free, she is the only one that has to suffer the stink.

 

By her own free will. She isnt being forced to work for free and if you want to be technical she was being paid in the form of credits on her account. Its a lesson in "dont do things under the table".

 

He probably should have her fill out an injury form. Thats just good protection for the company (not that she is a threat but in general).

 

I have sympathy for the situation. I just dont think he is laible for her poor choice.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Not in this instance from what I am reading. What I read is that this time she was doing it without being asked. If she had been "officially" volunteering then I would suggest she read the company policy on injuries sustained while volunteering. I also suspect she would have been in more appropriate shoes.

 

Yes it was an accident, but it was one that happened when she made a error in judgement, during a time when she was not specifically asked to volunteer. If I trip over my own feet in a grocery store Im not going to ask the grocery store to cover my hospital bills. That's just rediculous.

 

I said it before, but I WAS asked to help with DD's class (not for one week....indefinitely), so I was helping with her class as asked. I went out to sign for the package, because I could....and it needed done. Nobody specifically asked me to sign for the package, but good grief....he needed a signature, I could sign for it, why wouldn't I? I think it would be a bit ridiculous to NOT sign for it and say "well, nobody told me to".

[AnnaM]

Again, I am sorry for you hurt wrist.

 

I do not think he should be liable. I won't argue that point anymore since you know how I feel :)

 

Praying for provision for your bill as well as healing in your wrist. I understand how stressful they can be. I had three NICU babies.

[Danestress]

It came from an information section of a insurance website about business insurance.

 

just because you found a website that maybe offers or discusses insurance that would cover any injury does NOT mean that in your jurisdiction, the business is responsible for any injury on their property.

 

I would not proceed without specific information about your own state's laws and his liability.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

just because you found a website that maybe offers or discusses insurance that would cover any injury does NOT mean that in your jurisdiction, the business is responsible for any injury on their property.

 

I would not proceed without specific information about your own state's laws and his liability.

 

Oh, I only posted that as a description of the type of advice people were offering. After talking with FIL who is a local insurance agent I found that he likely has a med policy to cover medical expenses in situations like mine. If and when I decide to go to boss man, this is what I will bring up.

[RanchGirl]

It happened a month ago, that could be your problem. And it sounds like you didn't fill out any kind of incident report at the time -- were there witnesses?

 

If the owner saw it or was made aware of it right away, I don't see a problem with talking to the owner and saying remember when I fell here last month, I forgot to fill out an incident report, now I'm getting bills I can't afford, what do you think about going through the gym's insurance?

 

BUT, I think you should be prepared for the owner to take it badly, either to refuse to file with his insurance or to do it grudgingly and then hold it against you. So weigh how important your relationship with this gym is before you take any action.

 

And do it fast, the longer you wait the worse your story will look IMO.

[Mom0012]

Well, with my insurance company, I would receive a form from them within a couple of months of the accident asking where the injury took place and if I was on someone else's property. If that happens, you will have to decide whether to tell the truth or not. Though, honestly, I'm not sure if it will benefit you at all or just your insurance company.

 

Lisa

[Mejane]

It doesn't matter if you were working or not, whether he was at fault or not... you were injured on his property and are entitled to compensation. Whether you pursue that or not is up to you. If someone is injured on my property, not only can they go after my homeowner's insurance, they can sue me, even if they're hurt while trying to rob me. :glare:

[lamamaloca]

Nope. Not buying that. It doesn't sound anything like the McD coffee lawsuit.

 

Hey, for what it's worth, that lady spent more than a week in the hospital getting skin grafts after the burn, and required months of medical care. I don't think the suit was nearly as frivolous as people like to portray it as.

 

Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Lovedtodeath]

Now, my other thought is, if you go to him as a friend and a previous employee and tell him what happened and that you are having a hard time affording it, and that you understand it is not his fault and you don't expect him to cover it, but if there was any way he could help...Well that to me seems better than walking in with expectations that he SHOULD cover it. I would definitely go in with the understanding that he might say no and if he does I would walk out and deal with it.

That was how it sounded like she was planning to handle it to me.

 

Personally, I wish insurance didn't exist at all. I think it makes medical care for what should be low cost issues outrageous.

 

But it does and that's the frame we have to suck it up and deal with.

 

This is a business and he should run it as one.

 

Which means if someone - anyone - gets hurt on the premises, he should know about it and an injury report filled out.

 

This is pretty basic, so I'm not having much sympathy for him at the moment.

 

If she had been an actual employee, she would have been required and or supplied with proper shoes and been doing her designated job instead of getting his mail for him. (well one would hope. Shoddy business practices do abound though, so who knows.)

 

But he gets all the advantage of free labor that he makes no requirements or provisions for, plus he apparently doesn't have basic CYA business procedures in place - but somehow she is the bad guy for needing help with the expense of an accident that occurred as a direct result of working for free for him?

 

Nope. Not buying that. It doesn't sound anything like the McD coffee lawsuit.

 

It sounds like crap happens, but because she worked for free, she is the only one that has to suffer the stink.

I was looking for a cheerleader smiley, but I will go with these, Martha.:hurray::001_wub::001_tt1:

[Miss Sherry]

Yep. I was in the gym helping DD's class. The FedEx guy came in and was clearly looking for someone (all staff was coaching at that point, nobody was in the office). At first, I thought he was just letting someone know that he was dropping it off, but then I realized he needed a signature. Since he had already been waiting a few min when I realized it, I got up quickly and tried to jog to the door to get to him in the parent area. When I hit the polished concrete floor just inside the gym doors (leading to the parent area) I slipped. I still went out and signed for the pkg :)

You fell on a "polished" concrete floor. Sounds to me like the floor was slippery. I think you should have him check with his insurance company. It should be covered.