Paging Tina (and other PR experts): 3&4 and/or Bridge?

[Veritaserum]

So.... I'm *this* close to switching by 10yo (5th) to PR (and later LR). I'm currently accelerating my 8yo through 1&2. My 6yo just finished week 23 of PR1. I've read some old threads and have some questions:

 

1. Do levels 3&4 cover the same material (plus more) as the Bridge? IOW, if I take dd10 through 3&4, she would not need to use the Bridge, right? Could she go from PR4 to LR1?

 

2. The first 16(?) weeks of PR3 review levels 1&2, right? Could I teach her the markings and rule tunes at that time? Her reading is very advanced. She needs to work on her spelling, but she would not have the patience to go through levels 1&2. She has had grammar and dictation practice already.

 

3. Is level 1 of PR the only level to include a set of teacher phonogram cards?

 

Thanks! :)

[johnandtinagilbert]

So.... I'm *this* close to switching by 10yo (5th) to PR (and later LR). I'm currently accelerating my 8yo through 1&2. My 6yo just finished week 23 of PR1. I've read some old threads and have some questions:

 

1. Do levels 3&4 cover the same material (plus more) as the Bridge? IOW, if I take dd10 through 3&4, she would not need to use the Bridge, right? Could she go from PR4 to LR1? You are correct, ma'am ;) Use 3&4, you'll have no need for the Bridge.

 

2. The first 16(?) weeks of PR3 review levels 1&2, right? Yes + continue with more grammar practice and digging deeper in writing and lit.; but so far as spelling, yes. You also get your "cursive practice" with familiar words, thus the review has a few perks. Could I teach her the markings and rule tunes at that time? Perfect time. That's how I did it with my older dc. Her reading is very advanced. She needs to work on her spelling, but she would not have the patience to go through levels 1&2. She has had grammar and dictation practice already.

 

3. Is level 1 of PR the only level to include a set of teacher phonogram cards? Yes. We just made our own sets of cards via notecards from the dollar store/wal-mart.

 

Thanks! :)

You're welcome. Starting at PR3 w/ my Elders did wonders for their spelling!

[Veritaserum]

You're welcome. Starting at PR3 w/ my Elders did wonders for their spelling!

 

Thanks again, Tina. :) I've been using your affiliate link. You've been so helpful! :)

[johnandtinagilbert]

Thanks again, Tina. :) I've been using your affiliate link. You've been so helpful! :)

Thank you...and everybody else who have used the link. You are all blessing me!

[AngelBee]

Thank you for asking that! I somehow missed that we will not need Bridge if we do 3 and 4. That just saved me a chunk of money and a year of time! :)

[Lisa R]

If you begin PR1 in 1st grade and skip The Bridge, is starting LR1 in 4th grade too early? If so, when should you start LR and what will you do in the meantime?

 

Thanks!

[johnandtinagilbert]

If you begin PR1 in 1st grade and skip The Bridge, is starting LR1 in 4th grade too early? If so, when should you start LR and what will you do in the meantime?

 

Thanks!

Yes. LR takes real logic stage thinking, so for most dc, it's too early. It's an intensive, thorough program with a sizable workload. Remember, PR is a Level program, not necessarily an annual one.

[AngelBee]

Yes. LR takes real logic stage thinking, so for most dc, it's too early. It's an intensive, thorough program with a sizable workload. Remember, PR is a Level program, not necessarily an annual one.

My plan is to spread them out.

PR1: K and 1st

PR2: 2nd and 3rd

PR3: 4th

PR4: 5th

 

Than maybe LR1 for 6th???

[johnandtinagilbert]

My plan is to spread them out.

PR1: K and 1st

PR2: 2nd and 3rd

PR3: 4th

PR4: 5th

 

Than maybe LR1 for 6th???

That would work well. I think a really mature and strong 5th grader might handle it, but since you can get 2 years of high school Latin from LR, I don't see any need for rushing. Your plan should be great.

[AngelBee]

That would work well. I think a really mature and strong 5th grader might handle it, but since you can get 2 years of high school Latin from LR, I don't see any need for rushing. Your plan should be great.

Good. :)

 

For my ds11 and dd9, we will be on a different schedule. But that is ok. Rather be late in the game and do it right, then to miss a bunch or stuff and leave them hanging.

[Lovedtodeath]

My plan is to do one year of Winterpromise Language Arts to go along with the Children Around the World program then start LR after that. Not that I know anything, I just have to reply to any PR thread I see. :tongue_smilie:

[AngelBee]

My plan is to do one year of Winterpromise Language Arts to go along with the Children Around the World program then start LR after that. Not that I know anything, I just have to reply to any PR thread I see. :tongue_smilie:

For what grades?

 

So when will you be starting LR1? :)

[Lovedtodeath]

I plan to start LR in 7th grade and do the LA 7 with Children Around the World in 6th grade (because PR will definitely have her prepared for this instead of the LA 6). Thanks for asking. :) I don't feel as much like a 3rd wheel. lol

 

I also plan to give high school credit for LR.

[AngelBee]

I plan to start LR in 7th grade and do the LA 7 with Children Around the World in 6th grade (because PR will definitely have her prepared for this instead of the LA 6). Thanks for asking. :) I don't feel as much like a 3rd wheel. lol

 

I also plan to give high school credit for LR.

So do I (for LR). :)

 

I just need to fgure out how to do this. My payment cleared today and I will be getting PR1-3 soon!

 

I am accellerating 2 (plus making ds18 tag along with me teaching. He is adopted in March and could use the review)

 

Plus I am starting fresh with ds6 and tag along dd4 who thinks she is in junior high! :lol:

[Indygirl]

Hey, I was just wondering, if I started accelerating my ds8 through PR1 and 2 could I drop FLL, Spelling Power AND WWE or should we keep plugging away at WWE? I would love to streamline as much as possible! I am just a chicken to drop everything.

[AngelBee]

Hey, I was just wondering, if I started accelerating my ds8 through PR1 and 2 could I drop FLL, Spelling Power AND WWE or should we keep plugging away at WWE? I would love to streamline as much as possible! I am just a chicken to drop everything.

:lol: This is where I am right now too. We have been accelerating FFL and WWE plus some older texts to get them where I want them to be for LA skills. I am nervous to drop those as well.

 

Darn perfectionism! :tongue_smilie:

[Lovedtodeath]

PR 2 covers grammar and writing very well. I would get them up to PR 2 as quickly as possible and drop all other LA.

[Indygirl]

PR 2 covers grammar and writing very well. I would get them up to PR 2 as quickly as possible and drop all other LA.

 

You missed my "chicken" statement :D. I would so love to start my ds6 with PR ASAP. I really need to gather up curriculum and books we are not using and post them for sale. Maybe I could scrounge up the money to swing it.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

You missed my "chicken" statement :D. I would so love to start my ds6 with PR ASAP. I really need to gather up curriculum and books we are not using and post them for sale. Maybe I could scrounge up the money to swing it.

I was just reassuring you that PR 2 covers it very well! You are going to want to get your 8 year old into PR 2 quickly though... so make sure you can afford to get it soon, not just PR 1, kwim?

[LoveBaby]

*IF* you are starting PR 1 with an older student (say 3rd or 4th) to accelerate, you *may* want to continue WWE. However, I don't think it is imperative that you do so.

 

If you are starting with anyone in 2nd grade or before, then you do not need to add anything to PR 1, IMO. Concentrate on drilling the phonograms, dictating the spelling words and have the students dictate original sentences and later 4 sentence paragraphs. Level 2 steps things up considerably and will bring any student up to snuff in no time.

 

Drop all other LA and enjoy the extra time you have in your day by eating a bonbon and reading a good book. Do not however, start searching out a *different* LA program, trust the process!! ;-)

[Indygirl]

I was just reassuring you that PR 2 covers it very well! You are going to want to get your 8 year old into PR 2 quickly though... so make sure you can afford to get it soon, not just PR 1, kwim?

 

I will be seeing them at the end of March at the Midwest Homeschool Convention. I wonder if they will be running a special or at least offering free shipping? It would be a good time to check out everything in person as well.

[bluemongoose]

If you buy it from Rainbow Resource the amount is over 150 so you get free shipping...just thought I would throw that out there.

[Indygirl]

*IF* you are starting PR 1 with an older student (say 3rd or 4th) to accelerate, you *may* want to continue WWE. However, I don't think it is imperative that you do so.

 

If you are starting with anyone in 2nd grade or before, then you do not need to add anything to PR 1, IMO. Concentrate on drilling the phonograms, dictating the spelling words and have the students dictate original sentences and later 4 sentence paragraphs. Level 2 steps things up considerably and will bring any student up to snuff in no time.

 

Drop all other LA and enjoy the extra time you have in your day by eating a bonbon and reading a good book. Do not however, start searching out a *different* LA program, trust the process!! ;-)

 

Thanks for the advice. I had to :lol: about the extra time though. There doesn't seem to be much of that around here. I was actually looking into R&S for next year and looking foward to my ds8/9 being a little more independent. I don't think PR is set up that way though is it? It would still require quite a bit of my time. He actually likes working on his own and I have a ds4 in the wings (not beginning K until 2012).

[johnandtinagilbert]

I plan to start LR in 7th grade and do the LA 7 with Children Around the World in 6th grade (because PR will definitely have her prepared for this instead of the LA 6). Thanks for asking. :) I don't feel as much like a 3rd wheel. lol

 

I also plan to give high school credit for LR.

I enjoy the "other voices" You're always welcome, Carmen!

 

Hey, I was just wondering, if I started accelerating my ds8 through PR1 and 2 could I drop FLL, Spelling Power AND WWE or should we keep plugging away at WWE? I would love to streamline as much as possible! I am just a chicken to drop everything.

Drop it! Drop it! Drop it!

 

*IF* you are starting PR 1 with an older student (say 3rd or 4th) to accelerate, you *may* want to continue WWE. However, I don't think it is imperative that you do so.

 

If you are starting with anyone in 2nd grade or before, then you do not need to add anything to PR 1, IMO. Concentrate on drilling the phonograms, dictating the spelling words and have the students dictate original sentences and later 4 sentence paragraphs. Level 2 steps things up considerably and will bring any student up to snuff in no time.

 

Drop all other LA and enjoy the extra time you have in your day by eating a bonbon and reading a good book. Do not however, start searching out a *different* LA program, trust the process!! ;-)

:iagree: And I choose cookies over bon bons, but it works out just the same :)

 

I will be seeing them at the end of March at the Midwest Homeschool Convention. I wonder if they will be running a special or at least offering free shipping? It would be a good time to check out everything in person as well.

She usually offers free shipping if you order at conventions.

 

Thanks for the advice. I had to :lol: about the extra time though. There doesn't seem to be much of that around here. I was actually looking into R&S for next year and looking foward to my ds8/9 being a little more independent. I don't think PR is set up that way though is it? It would still require quite a bit of my time. He actually likes working on his own and I have a ds4 in the wings (not beginning K until 2012).

Once you get into PR3, there is more independent work. Remember, though, there are plenty of 20 min. days in PR, which is about how long it will take you to go through the RS daily oral drill. There are also days that spelling and lit. will also ONLY take 20 min total, so you dc will not have to sit through the oral drill AND work independently. My experience is that more days than not, we actually spend less time on LA than we did when we used RS grammar, et. al. Besides, if you decide you only want to spend 20-30 min on a particular area, just stop and pick up the next day. It works and the program doesn't give that 180 lesson pressure that I often felt with RS.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks for the advice. I had to :lol: about the extra time though. There doesn't seem to be much of that around here. I was actually looking into R&S for next year and looking foward to my ds8/9 being a little more independent. I don't think PR is set up that way though is it? It would still require quite a bit of my time. He actually likes working on his own and I have a ds4 in the wings (not beginning K until 2012).

I think it is like any other program. Some lessons can be more independent, some not. Dictation is not independent in any program. :lol:

 

I have found that PR 2 is working really well like this: Monday mark all words for the week (sometimes this is independent, oh but I do make her tell me which rule tunes apply). Tuesday do the grammar lesson for the week (this is half and half I would say). Wednesday do the literature lesson for the week (half and half as well). Thursday do the spelling lesson with dictation (like a test, but still require the marking). It seems to take much less time than following the schedule. We normally only take 20 minutes on the spelling or grammar, when my schedule actually has 20 minutes allowed for each.

 

But, if you want independence you could shop around for that specifically.

[Indygirl]

Hey Tina, thanks for chiming in. You mentioned that you were familiar with Abeka which is what we are used to. I am a little worried because we jumped ship on AAS. Are we going to have trouble with this if we start PR1. Will I need to tell the kids to forget what they have learned because now the letters and combinations (phonograms) make different or additional sounds. Will I just confuse them? This is a big hang up for me right now.

[Veritaserum]

Hey Tina, thanks for chiming in. You mentioned that you were familiar with Abeka which is what we are used to. I am a little worried because we jumped ship on AAS. Are we going to have trouble with this if we start PR1. Will I need to tell the kids to forget what they have learned because now the letters and combinations (phonograms) make different or additional sounds. Will I just confuse them? This is a big hang up for me right now.

 

My kids who have used AAS can keep the AAS rules. I actually have modified some of the PR phonograms to include the AAS sounds like "ee" as a third sound of i (PR only teaches two sounds), "ee" as a fourth sound of y (PR teaches that y does not say "ee", but I teach that it does), and "uh" as a fourth sound of o. I think those are the only ones I changed. :)

[AngelBee]

Do not however, start searching out a *different* LA program, trust the process!! ;-)

:lol:

This is KILLING me in other subjects! I have looked over HOD, MFW, and TOG like 25 times in the last couple days! :tongue_smilie: I have a split pelvic bone and nothing else to do til this baby comes! :D

[AngelBee]

Thanks for the advice. I had to :lol: about the extra time though. There doesn't seem to be much of that around here. I was actually looking into R&S for next year and looking foward to my ds8/9 being a little more independent. I don't think PR is set up that way though is it? It would still require quite a bit of my time. He actually likes working on his own and I have a ds4 in the wings (not beginning K until 2012).

I will be teaching 3 levels pf PR within the year. I am SCARED! :lol:

[AngelBee]

Once you get into PR3, there is more independent work. Remember, though, there are plenty of 20 min. days in PR, which is about how long it will take you to go through the RS daily oral drill. There are also days that spelling and lit. will also ONLY take 20 min total, so you dc will not have to sit through the oral drill AND work independently. My experience is that more days than not, we actually spend less time on LA than we did when we used RS grammar, et. al. Besides, if you decide you only want to spend 20-30 min on a particular area, just stop and pick up the next day. It works and the program doesn't give that 180 lesson pressure that I often felt with RS.

Ok....that makes me feel a little better! :)

[Lisa R]

Now I'm not so sure....if starting LR is better when they're older it seems there will be a fairly big gap between PR and LR. What would I use during those years? If we used something else "in the middle" wouldn't that get confusing? Am I missing something?

[Veritaserum]

Now I'm not so sure....if starting LR is better when they're older it seems there will be a fairly big gap between PR and LR. What would I use during those years? If we used something else "in the middle" wouldn't that get confusing? Am I missing something?

 

I think some people take three years to cover 3&4 so that LR1 can start in 6th or 7th. I haven't done it, yet. I think I would be inclined to keep reviewing and practicing if I didn't think my child was ready for LR1.

[LoveBaby]

We won't start LR until 7th. If we switch the older kiddo's to Oak Meadow, I will just have them use that included language arts until we are ready for Latin Road.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Hey Tina, thanks for chiming in. You mentioned that you were familiar with Abeka which is what we are used to. I am a little worried because we jumped ship on AAS. Are we going to have trouble with this if we start PR1. Will I need to tell the kids to forget what they have learned because now the letters and combinations (phonograms) make different or additional sounds. Will I just confuse them? This is a big hang up for me right now.

We did AAS 1 and 3 lessons of AAS 2. We skipped quite a bit in PR 1. Switching to PR was not confusing in the slightest. They are practically the same thing. AAS has more incremental steps and is more of a mastery program. PR is not so slow going and is more of a spiral program. :) They are both great, and extremely similar.

[Indygirl]

We did AAS 1 and 3 lessons of AAS 2. We skipped quite a bit in PR 1. Switching to PR was not confusing in the slightest. They are practically the same thing. AAS has more incremental steps and is more of a mastery program. PR is not so slow going and is more of a spiral program. :) They are both great, and extremely similar.

 

This is my concern. AAS did not work for us. Maybe I am worried about nothing.

[AngelBee]

This is my concern. AAS did not work for us. Maybe I am worried about nothing.

The great thing about PR right now is the resell value is super high. So if it didn't work, you could EASILY resell it and recoop almost all of your money.

[Lovedtodeath]

This is my concern. AAS did not work for us. Maybe I am worried about nothing.

That is why I switched. The problem with AAS was the constant need for flash card work and the mastery set up. We don't like flash cards and the mastery set up made it hard for me to know when to end a lesson each day, since there was no schedule, and when to move on. PR is working much better.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Sorry for the delay, all. I had a super busy week last week and had to step away from the boards :) I hate missing a PR talk!

Hey Tina, thanks for chiming in. You mentioned that you were familiar with Abeka which is what we are used to. I am a little worried because we jumped ship on AAS. Are we going to have trouble with this if we start PR1. Will I need to tell the kids to forget what they have learned because now the letters and combinations (phonograms) make different or additional sounds. Will I just confuse them? This is a big hang up for me right now.

It shouldn't. The AAS phonemes are pretty similar, with the couple of exceptions mentioned. There are several successful switchers here (in both directions, fwiw)

 

My kids who have used AAS can keep the AAS rules. I actually have modified some of the PR phonograms to include the AAS sounds like "ee" as a third sound of i (PR only teaches two sounds), "ee" as a fourth sound of y (PR teaches that y does not say "ee", but I teach that it does), and "uh" as a fourth sound of o. I think those are the only ones I changed. :)

You can surely use this. The reason PR doesn't teach y says /E/ is b/c the y says /i/ justifies the spelling rule (adding a vowel suffix, change y to i unless the ending is -ing)

 

I will be teaching 3 levels pf PR within the year. I am SCARED! :lol:

I currently am! You can do it! Keep reading my blog for encouragement.

 

Now I'm not so sure....if starting LR is better when they're older it seems there will be a fairly big gap between PR and LR. What would I use during those years? If we used something else "in the middle" wouldn't that get confusing? Am I missing something?

Actually, this gives great freedom. Levels 3 & 4 are rich and you'll enjoy the flexibility of Not having to complete all the areas in one day. You can spread out the work, slow down and focus. It also allows for growth in writing before starting LR. A few things you can do to continue grammar reinforcement are focus on grammar in writing and/or use Daily Grams for continued practice. You may see, as I did, that once you finish PR4, DG will be unnecessary b/c your dc will never miss a thing on DG. The point of PR is to master grammar stage grammar, so whether or not you finish in grammar school or middle school, your goal is reached and you will now focus on grammatical application in writing.

 

I really like that after finishing PR, we can switch over to Write Shop and increase our writing capabilities. WS covers writing with a rich dose of grammar, so we'll spend some time there until or in combination with LR. If you have a young dc, not quite mature enough for LR, then spend the year Applying the grammar skills via writing. Remember, PR is a LEVEL program, not an annual one. This will all make sense once you complete PR. I have the good fortune of time and experience in the program, so I *know* this is the case.

 

When you complete PR, you really won't need any grammar and once you start LR, it will bring in the high descriptions to compliment PR and take care of grammar content. When starting LR, you'll need a writing program. We are pleased with Write Shop. When we finish that, we'll head back to Writing Aids. The plan as a whole is SOLID. I'm huge about creating writers (b/c I Love to write). If you check my blog, you can see some examples of WS there. Good stuff!

 

This is my concern. AAS did not work for us. Maybe I am worried about nothing.

I believe the approach, as Carmen mentioned, makes the difference for some students. While the phonograms are just about the same, the approach is different.