Can we revisit Latin-Centered Curriculum?

[Halcyon]

I just received this, and have spent the better part of the afternoon reading it. Can those who have used it, or continue to use it, tell me how it compares to SWB's approach to classical education? Can you explain how your day might differ from a WTM day? I am liking the idea of streamlining our day, focusing on the basics...but the idea of not doing formal science, vocab, spelling, etc kinda.....freaks me out LOL. But I LOVE the idea of delving deeper into a few subjects, and obviously you can't have both!

 

I have subbed to the Yahoo Group and am awaiting confirmation of my subscription, but as we've been following the WTM model for 2 years now, I would love to hear from others on this board about their experience with LCC.

[my2boysteacher]

I have recently re-read LCC as well and am trying to re-focus my personal educational philosophy a bit, so I am :bigear: as well.

[Jen in PA]

:lurk5:

[Halcyon]

bump

[StephanieF]

bump!

I must revisit my book:D

Stephanie

[blakereese]

:bigear: We're all ears, people! :lol:

[Halcyon]

Ears people! I say EARS!! :bigear:

[ReneTL]

I just posted to your other thread about Latin and reading this book was the final prompt to move to a Latin program we could actually stand. :) We've been following (mostly) the LCC recommendations for a whole 3 weeks now and so far, so good.

 

Here's our schedule:

 

 

• MTWF, we do Singapore Math, Latin and WWE. They also spend about 15 minutes doing Rosetta Stone.
  
• MTW, we do FLL.
  

 

These subjects get finished before lunch, then after lunch we spend an hour following this rotation, plus an hour reading:

 

 

• Monday - History SOTW Volume 2
  
• Tuesday - Literature. Between now and the end of the year, we are reading one story from Lamb's Tales From Shakespeare
  
• Wednesday - Bible. We're reading a few chapters a week from Bible History by Schuster. There are discussion questions after each chapter.
  
• Friday - Geography. Right now, I'm just focusing on learning countries and capitals of North and South America.
  

 

We do a co-op on Thursdays and the girls are taking a radio theory class, so that is our science focus for now. We'll do more nature study as the mood strikes and the weather improves.

 

For now, I'm counting FLL/WWE as our writing hour. I didn't follow his CW recommendation yet because I wanted to finish the FLL/WWE level 4 with my 5th grader. I'll probably move her to CW Homer next year. Since my 3rd grader is in FLL/WWE 3 this year, she'll most likely finish level 4 next year, then CW Homer in 5th.

 

Since we've made the switch, I'm not having them do much outlining/narration in history and that makes me wonder about how much writing we're doing, but I'm trying not to worry too much. As far as vocabulary & spelling goes, I'm not too concerned about scrapping them as stand alone subjects, but I do need to be better about writing up word lists each week from our readings.

 

The biggest benefits I have experienced are:

 

 

• Easier for me to schedule our week - yea!
  
• There is more time for the girls to pursue their interests and for down-time. They both dance ballet and sing in the choir at church, so we have activities six.days.a.week. UGH. Last week we read A Midsummer Night's Dream and I checked out the play from the library and they loved it. We didn't have time this Tuesday to watch A Winter's Tale, and everyone was very bummed out. (we're fitting it in tomorrow.) We never would have had time for watching a play when I was trying to fit everything into the day.
  
• They seem to enjoy what they're doing more and I'm seeing improvements in math. As I said in my other post, the difference in our Latin studies is great.
  
• We're all more focused. I don't think we're spread too thin in our studies.
  

 

As for next year, this is my tentative plan for morning work:

 

 

• Singapore Math
  
• LforC A/B
  
• CW
  

 

Afternoons:

 

 

• TOG, but a "dieter's version" of the menu. I just think it will help me manage the higher level studies of middle school. I'm still debating this, however, since so many folks on the boards talk about how much more work it is.
  

 

Anyway, that's what's new with us. I would be anxious to hear any other stories!

 

Peace,

Rene

[Ravin]

Latin-centered has informed our choices, but we don't follow it directly any more than we do WTM. We're not doing Latin this year, largely for financial reasons. We ARE using FLL. Next year, we'll be using Latin and no English grammar program, but we will be using Webster's for spelling. I dropped history this year because DD had no interest, but we are doing geography.

[justamouse]

I've read it and it was something that further prompted me to make the jump to Latin, but I don't schedule a day around LCC (and I have the first edition-I have no idea what the second edition says).

 

THAT SAID, I can really see how learning Latin (and adding French) have enabled us to drop grammar and spelling. You really DO learn more English Grammar (in context) learning a different language than you do just hanging out out there all by it's lonesome.

[RainbowSprinkles]

I've just read it and it inspired me to add in daily Latin. I will not follow it to a T, but if you're still interested this is what our schedule will (probably) look like:

 

M-F

Math, Latin, Writing. My younger dc will finish OPGTR. I'm not sure if we'll do Christian Studies daily yet or not. I didn't receive it yet, so I'll decide after looking at it.

 

MWF

Grammar

History

 

T and Th

Science

 

F

Art

Shakespeare (we will do about a 6 week study)

Other extras like Poetry and such

[Dawn E]

I'm trying to embrace more of this philosophy... I have a tendency to plan way too much in. It has helped me to be content with hitting the basics daily--writing (and I still teach grammar separately from Latin, though I am seeing how great a tool Latin and Greek are for teaching our grammar), math, Latin, and Greek. Four days a week we have readings in classical studies, which includes Bible, Greek mythology and Roman history. I love Memoria Press and have used many of their products; they have a LCC philosophy, too. I just started collecting antique Elson readers for dd to read from for a set period of time daily (30 mins right now) and she LOVES them. As I stated in the science thread, she takes an informal, twice-monthly science class and reads science books. She attends a weekly after-school art program.

 

I'm inspired to reread the book now. I tend to be as eclectic in my piecing together of philosophies to follow as my piecing together of materials to use, so I'll likely never be fully LCC. However, I find this philosophy does resonate with me.

[Bloggermom]

It has inspired me to focus on Latin and Greek. I also plan to add in Biblical Hebrew during the logic and rhetoric stages. :D

[MyLittleWonders]

I've read the book (I have both versions - I think you can still get the first edition from MP as an eBook) and really like the philosophy. Last year I made our schedule pretty LCC inspired (though I do not drop English studies/grammar or spelling). Then when we started our new school year this past summer, I started adding and planning too much. Then, having dd helped me see that I needed to stream-line our school day so that we could get as much done while she napped as possible. ;)

 

So, I'm back to a somewhat inspired LCC day (though I do not use his curriculum recommendations). Here's what we are currently doing (and/or what I try to do each day), and it's starting to feel like just enough:

 

*Latin for Children A

*Singapore Math/Life of Fred (ds#1 just started this on Fridays)

*All About Spelling (ds#1 is in level 5, ds#2 is in level 4, and I'm very slowly starting ds#3 in level 1; when I remember, we also do one set of words from All About Homophones)

*Michael Clay Thompson Island level (we are done with Grammar Island and almost done with Sentence Island; we will reread Grammar Island when I get the 2nd edition in the mail, and work through the Latin roots book and the poetry book, while we finish Practice Island)

*WWE (I'm using the hard-back book now instead of the workbooks, and together we are reading through Mr. Popper's Penguins; next we will read through The Moffats - I use the literature guides from Memoria Press for inspiration)

*Sentence Composing (I try to do this 3-4 times a week; I'm starting to add in the writing assignments in the back of Sentence Island - totally forgot about those - so we'll probably do a couple of each each week)

 

That's our "core" - Latin, math, and English studies (spelling, writing, literature, grammar). Then, the afternoons alternate "electives" - SOTW (we're almost done with Ancients), science (we were doing REAL Science Odyssey, but I'm writing my own on astronomy for the rest of the year), art (Artistic Pursuits and the "Sketch Tuesday" activities from Harmony Art Mom), and nature study (from Harmony Art Mom's nature blog).

 

I have dropped FLL and GWG (really like FLL and used GWG for more independent work, but overall, I like MCT's materials the best, plus I can use them with both ds#1 and ds#2 at the same time); I dropped the WWE workbooks (again, using the hard-backed book instead and choosing my own literature book allows us to do it together and I can tailor the dictation/narration for each boys' level). I try to do narration/dictation for science and history as well, and some type of writing with nature study. I still have Miquon math for ds#2 (and ds#3, but he's just doing K level math through Singapore right now), but it's just a supplement and tends to be done on our "off" weeks when we just focus on math and reading.

[Hunter]

I haven't read the book, but had a LOT of e-mail contact with the author as he was writing the book, because I had been doing a Math/KJV/Latin/Greek centered curriculum with my highschooler for many years.

 

The author and I were both reading Climbing Parnassus and The Devil Knows Latin at the time.

 

LCC has a lot of overlap with Robinson and SOW (Student of the Word).

 

LCC is latin centered

Robinson is math centered

SOW is Bible centered

 

But they are all skills based curriculums that don't spend a lot of time on knowledge and English grammar, and set fewer and non tradition but rigorous goals.

[Amy Jo]

I love LCC for the same reasons: easier to schedule, and I like moving things to the "nice to do" rather than the "must do". I did a compare and contrast (which I unfortunately deleted) on AO (year 2 or 3) and LCC (3rd grade). LCC has a simpler core, with one 'extra' subject per day. AO would have an average of 2-3 different books to read from (I assumed a chapter/book/day). So LCC is more streamlined in my mind. LCC has the progymnasmata, AO has dictation and narration. AO has more languages, which I like.

 

I've just reworked our plan, and simplified it. Our core subjects (using my 3rd Grader):

 

Composition: Spelling (daily); Grammar (2/wk, KISS); Composition (3/wk, Progressive Composition); Copywork Jar (3-4/wk)

Latin: GSWL and Minimus (with DS6 we will do Minimus first, then GSWL; I think it would be simpler not to switch around)

Math: MEP

Piano: Mrs. Stewarts 10-15m/day

Reading: ~30m/day

 

I'm still mulling over the rest. I'll post when I decide (before Monday ...). I really want to let stuff go and stay simple. We are going to do the 1 hour of reading in the late afternoon, before DH gets home.

 

I also see the importance of art and handicrafts (AO) but agree with LCC that it's not "academics". But since I'm the parent I still need some kind of reminder :lol: . So I've decided every winter we will have a new art or handicraft. This winter is photography. I hope this will not complicate things, but that it will knock out the winter blues a bit.

 

Amy

[Halcyon]

Tthank you for all these wonderful responses--so much to think about! Keep em coming, please!

 

Also, does anyone have Greek recommendations for a 3rd grader?

[Zoo Keeper]

We combine WTM and LCC. I have only read the first edition of LCC, and I am happy to just leave it at that.

 

 

 

 

 

Our WTM bits:

 

• we keep grammar/spelling as a seperate subject (using FLL and Abeka)
  
• we also follow SWB's suggestions for narrating/writing across all the subjects (and will start outlining when we get to logic stage). SWB's writing philosophy resonates with me. I find Classical Writing to be just too much.
  
• we are doing world history chronologically using SOTW (but not doing a 4 year cycle. No big deal.)
  
• we are doing science as recommended in WTM- ( 4 year cycles, keep notebook of narrations/drawings/experiments) I am not science oriented, and if I didn't have a plan, it wouldn't happen at all. Poor kids.) :)
  

Our LCC parts:

 

• we do two stream history: our American Studies is seperate from our world history. I am using the Artner's Guide and the What Your ___ Grader Needs to Know to do this. This happens once a week (sometimes twice, the boys really enjoy history...)
  
• we do Classical Studies once a week (and write narrations to put in notebook a la WTM). This year it is the Greco/Roman stories from Fifty Famous Stories and Thirty Famous Stories Retold. Both these books were found free online (google books). Next year is D'Aulaire's Greek Myths and study guide from Memoria.
  
• Christian Studies --this year we are reading through the Golden Children's Bible at our own pace; next year we will do Christian Studies I from Memoria.
  
• of course, we do Latin (GSwL for one boy and LfCA for the other, Minimus once a week for both) daily. We also began Greek this year (Biblical Greek 4 Kids, and some of Elementary Greek I).
  

We add in a lot of SL titles for free/family reading.

 

Our math, grammar/spelling, and Latin get done in the morning (usually :)) and some free reading happens daily. Everything else happens once a week in the afternoons--Monday is science, Tuesday is one history, Wednesday is Classical Studies, Thursday is the other history, and Friday is fine arts and/or whatever else needs or wants to be done.

 

I have found that slowing down with scheduling has allowed us to get more done, and enjoy doing it more.

 

ETA: I like Elementary Greek, but Greek for Children (Classical Academic Press) looks nice too...

Edited January 21, 2011 by Zoo Keeper

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I love LCC for the same reasons: easier to schedule, and I like moving things to the "nice to do" rather than the "must do". I did a compare and contrast (which I unfortunately deleted) on AO (year 2 or 3) and LCC (3rd grade). LCC has a simpler core, with one 'extra' subject per day. AO would have an average of 2-3 different books to read from (I assumed a chapter/book/day). So LCC is more streamlined in my mind. LCC has the progymnasmata, AO has dictation and narration. AO has more languages, which I like.

 

I've just reworked our plan, and simplified it. Our core subjects (using my 3rd Grader):

 

Composition: Spelling (daily); Grammar (2/wk, KISS); Composition (3/wk, Progressive Composition); Copywork Jar (3-4/wk)

Latin: GSWL and Minimus (with DS6 we will do Minimus first, then GSWL; I think it would be simpler not to switch around)

Math: MEP

Piano: Mrs. Stewarts 10-15m/day

Reading: ~30m/day

 

I'm still mulling over the rest. I'll post when I decide (before Monday ...). I really want to let stuff go and stay simple. We are going to do the 1 hour of reading in the late afternoon, before DH gets home.

 

I also see the importance of art and handicrafts (AO) but agree with LCC that it's not "academics". But since I'm the parent I still need some kind of reminder :lol: . So I've decided every winter we will have a new art or handicraft. This winter is photography. I hope this will not complicate things, but that it will knock out the winter blues a bit.

 

Amy

 

I like that idea of focusing on a new handicraft each winter. I may borrow that. :D

 

My Charlotte Mason based curriculum of choice is LBC and at the moment I am thinking I will follow their narration and dictation route until seventh grade and then start CW for Older Beginners for the progym. I was hoping that would give me the best of both worlds over time. :D

 

meanwhile ...

 

Between LCC and Charlotte Mason I have been unburdened by any concerns I may have had over a lack of formal science, spelling, vocab., etc. I am torn between the two however as far as structuring my day - one extra subject per day or several in shorter periods. Either way they both expect a short day with plenty of extra time for play and individual pursuits.

 

It's been a while since I read TWTM, I never tried to follow it and I gave my copy away recently so I can't compare them much.

 

We do focus on a core of Phonics (to eventually be replaced by Latin), Math and copywork (which looks different from day to day right now). LBC will be adding nature study & science, picture study & art, geography, literature and Music & Movement to our week and I'm undecided, as I mentioned, on whether I will schedule those LCC style or CM style. I guess it will come down to what makes our days most pleasant and profitable. :)

 

Sorry if all that was disjointed - you have no idea all that did and the time that passed in between starting this post and finishing it. :tongue_smilie:lol

[Zoo Keeper]

Sorry, double post.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Zoo Keeper

[Dawn E]

Also, does anyone have Greek recommendations for a 3rd grader?

 

Greek materials for elementary students are generally Koine, which is the type of Greek the New Testament is written in. Consequently, these materials have as the end-goal the reading of the New Testament. Currently the most popular are Elementary Greek; Hey, Andrew, Teach Me Some Greek; and the new material from Classical Academic Press--Greek for Children. I believe all of these are recommended for 3rd +. There will be memory verses from the Bible in each of these. Koine is a more simplified Greek than Attic (the form most often studied at the collegiate level; used by Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides and Aristophanes), so going from Koine to Attic is challenging. However, having a foundation in Koine will greatly benefit a child entering the study of Attic in middle or high school.

 

I believe Galore Park has an Attic Greek program, but it is geared towards older students. Athenaze is the program used to teach Attic in middle to high school (it's actually used in colleges, but works for older students/advanced middle schoolers). So, if you are not interested in starting in Koine, you may decide to add Greek in later on.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Dawn E

[Hunter]

I recomend picking ONE classical language. Latin has more resources. Greek might be the best for conservative Christians. Juggling two ended out meaning neither language ended out being mastered.

[elegantlion]

LCC keeps me centered. We keep the multum non multa approach. This is our 3rd year with LCC as our model. I consider it a framework, not a box. :D Keeping Latin in the classical approach made sense to me.

 

Many programs are history-centric and before discovering LCC I almost went insane trying to find a history program where I agreed with the approach, the layout, the philosophy of the publisher, etc, etc. Then I thought why am I trying to center a program around something so subject to bias and disagreement. Latin is easier to center a curriculum around. :D (the lightbulb went on)

 

After a year of LCC I realized we'd had the best year of homeschooling. Latin works for us. So we continue to use it as our model of education. We have adapted to fit some of my son's interests (like Japanese & Asian history).

 

We keep LCC at the top, but my schooling has taken what I would call an adapted classical approach.

 

The other area where LCC was helpful was in designing a classical for self-education. I've been following the high school recs for myself.

[Elizabeth in MN]

We're mostly an LCC family, but our home school is more centered around history than Latin. We are just starting to make the switch to a more Middle School schedule, or entering the Logic Stage if you want WTM-speak.

 

Daily there is one hour of independent reading. My daughter can choose from a limited shelf of books what she wants to read for this hour. The books are ones that are listed both in "Honey for a Child's Heart" and on the AO site for 4th grade. We generally do Math next and I use Singapore Math. My daughter thrives on it alone because repetition isn't needed with her. Handwriting is our third daily "must do" subject. I'm using a handwriting book for left handed cursive and my daughter has beautiful writing. Handwriting has been hard for her because of being left-handed and cursive has been especially hard. Once the handwriting book is done we'll start in using the Simply Grammar book but without all the writing out of sentences. Latin is done MWF with my Mom and we are going through Prima Latina. PE is the last daily subject and that can be the Wii Fit or an exercise video or time at home school ice skating :D

 

Weekly we do SOTW three times a week. On Monday my daughter listens to the chapter on her iPod, then Wednesday she read the pages in the Kingfisher history book and on Friday the geography pages get done. I had been doing the Evan-Moore Geography books that Drew suggests, but my daughter was having problems understanding where key historical events were happening. I don't see the point in doing geography twice, and the need to understand history won out. Logic we do but I am trying to find a great program. We did the fist Mind Benders book and did great until we hit the 3D ones. Even I don't understand how to get the answers. Religion is another weekly subject. We had been using AWANA for this, but my daughter has suddenly started to dislike it so we are going to switch to the Christian Studies books. Nature Study is weekly and we are reading a great book on Bird ("Backyard Birding for Kids"). We've set up bird feeders and read the book and it's laid back. Now, I did switch up what Drew suggests in history. I wanted a world view of history, so we went with SOTW. I also like all the books Drew suggested for history so I have turned that into a read-aloud time. Art is another weekly subject and I am following Drew's suggestions for that with great results. We listen to classical music once a week while doing school work.

 

I have added on four subjects beyond what is suggested in the LCC. My daughter is learning Touch Typing, Manners, we're doing a Unit study on Islam, and I count socialization as a subject because we have to make a concerted effort to get it.

 

Broken down at a glance we have

Daily - free reading, math, handwriting (to be grammar soon), Latin, PE

Weekly - history, logic, religion, science, literature, art, music, touch typing, manners, Islam, and socialization. That's generally two weekly subjects a day.

[Halcyon]

I recomend picking ONE classical language. Latin has more resources. Greek might be the best for conservative Christians. Juggling two ended out meaning neither language ended out being mastered.

 

 

Thank you-LCC recommends both Greek and Latin, and my son seems quite language oriented. I may start with Greek Code Cracker and see how he enjoys it.

[Hunter]

LCC was written by the father of a preschooler, talking about a standard of education from an earlier time, when college and careers were different.

 

Just giving you a little "been there done that" :-) Believe me I wanted to do both Latin and Greek, and started attempting it long before LCC was even in it's rough drafts.

 

I'm sure we'll start seeing some second generation homeschoolers easily tackling both languages when taught by a fluent parent, but...I recommend that first generation families pick ONE.

 

In the beginning it's feels easy to tackle both languages, but as you hit the second half of the grammars, it just takes too much time each day to overlearn and drill both languages and still be presenting new material in both languages, as well, and to hit the math, and at least dabble in the subjects the school board is expecting be covered, never mind all the other little tid bits we can't stop ourselves from adding in.

[Targhee]

We don't follow LCC exactly, nor WTM. But what I LOVE about LCC is that it is (as others have said) very centering; a framework. It helps me keep things simple. Fewer subjects, focus on those of core importance. LCC does do history, but not with the same emphasis as WTM. I don't agree with WTM 4 year cycle either. I mean, I think exposure to history and literature repeatedly before you really sit down and *study* them is ok, but I disagree on focusing on (and limiting) those things for lit and social studies before the 9-12 grade years. And I STRONGLY disagree with repeating 4 year cycle for science. Science is not just a body of knowledge/work (like history and literature) to be learned. It's also a process and means of communication. Studying only the subjects over and over is like studying literature and never studying writing. Sorry, that is MY philosophy, not LCC. But I find LCC matches my thoughts more closely.

[Poke Salad Annie]

I love LCC for the same reasons: easier to schedule, and I like moving things to the "nice to do" rather than the "must do". I did a compare and contrast (which I unfortunately deleted) on AO (year 2 or 3) and LCC (3rd grade).

I've just reworked our plan, and simplified it. Our core subjects (using my 3rd Grader):

 

Composition: Spelling (daily); Grammar (2/wk, KISS); Composition (3/wk, Progressive Composition); Copywork Jar (3-4/wk)

Latin: GSWL and Minimus (with DS6 we will do Minimus first, then GSWL; I think it would be simpler not to switch around)

Math: MEP

Piano: Mrs. Stewarts 10-15m/day

Reading: ~30m/day

 

Amy

 

I would have loved to have seen your plan to compare and contrast AO and LCC. For me, I have found when trying to get in all the AO readings, I am short-changing the core skills-based subjects. Those seem to get short shrift, and I am frantically moving things along quickly in order to get that chapter of such-and-such read. I don't like that, but I do want to keep some element of AO (the wonderful literature) as part of our day. But how to do that, I'm not sure. :confused: I will follow along to see what else you decide about your scheduling, as I am very interested.

[rootsnwings]

Subbing

[Haiku]

I read LCC and found it interesting, but I agree with this:

 

LCC was written by the father of a preschooler, talking about a standard of education from an earlier time, when college and careers were different.

 

 

After reading LCC, I compared his course of study for highschoolers to my state's credit requirements for graduation and the entrance requirements for the university I attended.

 

HUGE mismatch.

 

I've no doubt that LCC gives a child a good education in that it meets the goals it lays out; however, in terms of preparing a child to attend college in the 21st century (and, imo, even to graduate high school in the 20th century), well, I just don't see it working without MASSIVE tweaking.

 

I did take several pages of notes on good LCC ideas I could incorporate into our WTM-style homeschool, though.

 

Tara

[Zoo Keeper]

Memoria Press materials have definite LCC flavor, and I think that they look rigorous. Check out the Highlands Latin School to see it in action. More food for thought. (I do agree that the high school bits for science and math in LCC left me kind of wondering...) I plan on a WTM sequence for high school, with some LCC bits added in (keeping up with Classical Studies and Christian Studies, and of course, Latin/Greek).

[Mama Lynx]

I'm replying without reading the replies. I'm on my phone, on my break at co- op :)

 

We do LCC, and belong to an LCC-inspired co-op.

 

You can do LCC and have your day not look substantially different than a WTM day. The difference is mire in philosophy and emphasis. I use many WTM products and methods, especially for my younger kids. In my co-op, moms pull together to teach Latin, Greek, classical studies and Great Books/humanities. We also do recitation, science, art, and a little music.

 

I'm happy to answer questions in more detail after I'm home. I have to go teach Latin to the high schoolers now :)

[Halcyon]

Thanks. I've been checking out the Memoria Press too, but it's not secular, so lots of it would have to be tweaked.

[Hunter]

...I read LCC and found it interesting, but...After reading LCC, I compared his course of study for highschoolers to my state's credit requirements for graduation and the entrance requirements for the university I attended. HUGE mismatch....

 

As I said earlier there are many overlaps in LCC, Robinson and SOW. Many of these children, including my own, did quite well for themselves following nontradition, but rigorous approaches. Some children get away with, or are even greatly rewarded for following nontraditional, but rigorous curriculums.

 

I think it helps any parent following any of the 3 curriculums, I mentioned above, to make contact with parents from the other 2 curriculums/methods to hear about how graduates have fared.

 

My issue with LCC isn't the big idea, but the specifics of implementing it. When it comes to the specifics, a lot of the suggestions are theory, not a summary of something that was actually tried out and found to be successful. SOW and Robinson have graduated quite a few students now.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Hunter

[Halcyon]

One thing that a previous poster mentioned (sorry, can't find the exact quote) is that LCC centers around Latin, whereas WTM centers around history. And that Latin, as a subject, is more definable in terms of achievement, so it's thereby easier to build the rest of the curriculum on the shoulders of this (comparatively) solid foundation. I have found that in the last week or two, since we've started our day with Latin and made it (along with Math) the centerpiece of our day, our school days have gone more smoothly and interestingly, I feel we cover a lot more. In our Latin sessions alone, we talk about grammar, spelling, vocabulary, word derivations, practice handwriting, and read good classical prose. This seems to start our day on a very good footing. We then segue in to Math, and the rest of the day (science, history, grammar and WWE primarily) seems to just fall into place.

 

I am not sure what to make of this. It could be just that change is good occasionally to shake things up, or it may be that by making Latin more of the lynchpin of our school day, far more material is getting covered in an easier way.

[Hunter]

Latin and math are skills. History is knowledge.

 

I've always done better centering studies around skills and spirituality/seasons/current events. And then just letting the bits of knowledge fill in with whatever comes my way.

[Haiku]

Many of these children, including my own, did quite well for themselves following nontradition, but rigorous approaches.

 

I'm sure there are many children with nontraditional educations who do well for themselves, but my comment was that in terms of credits necessary to graduate high school or enroll in the (state, well-regarded) university I attended, LCC does not provide the necessary credits.

 

I would, however, be interested in hearing how a child who studied a LCC sequence for high school fared in attaining credits or arranging for some sort of alternative credit assignment that allowed them to achieve a high school diploma and get accepted into a university.

 

Tara

[Mama Lynx]

I read LCC and found it interesting, but I agree with this:

 

 

 

After reading LCC, I compared his course of study for highschoolers to my state's credit requirements for graduation and the entrance requirements for the university I attended.

 

HUGE mismatch.

 

I've no doubt that LCC gives a child a good education in that it meets the goals it lays out; however, in terms of preparing a child to attend college in the 21st century (and, imo, even to graduate high school in the 20th century), well, I just don't see it working without MASSIVE tweaking.

 

I did take several pages of notes on good LCC ideas I could incorporate into our WTM-style homeschool, though.

 

Tara

 

 

Tara, would you mind elaborating? What do you think a student needs to graduate from high school in the 20th century? In what ways would you massively tweak LCC to make it fit with college prep?

[Haiku]

Tara, would you mind elaborating? What do you think a student needs to graduate from high school in the 20th century? In what ways would you massively tweak LCC to make it fit with college prep?

 

Well, I was assessing it by credits that are needed to graduate high school in my state. It fell short in science, definitely, as well as several other subjects. I don't remember all the specifics. I wasn't saying it would be a bad education; quite the contrary, I think it would equip a student with a lot of skills and knowledge, but in terms of being able to assign credits for certain subjects, I was unable to make it come out correctly.

 

And I meant 21st century ... that was a typo. :)

 

Tara

[Mama Lynx]

I just received this, and have spent the better part of the afternoon reading it. Can those who have used it, or continue to use it, tell me how it compares to SWB's approach to classical education? Can you explain how your day might differ from a WTM day? I am liking the idea of streamlining our day, focusing on the basics...but the idea of not doing formal science, vocab, spelling, etc kinda.....freaks me out LOL. But I LOVE the idea of delving deeper into a few subjects, and obviously you can't have both!

 

I have subbed to the Yahoo Group and am awaiting confirmation of my subscription, but as we've been following the WTM model for 2 years now, I would love to hear from others on this board about their experience with LCC.

 

Okay, I'm home now.

 

How dos it compare to SWB's approach to classical education? SWB's approach is based on the trivium as stages of learning. SWB's approach is rigorous, and complete, and advocates a strong study of grammar, history, and Great Books.

 

LCC does not use the trivium as an organizing principle. LCC boldly states that a classical education means classical languages, classical works, classical subjects, and the foundational works of our civilization.

 

In practice, though, the two types of days don't look substantially different.

 

I am lucky enough to belong to a Latin-Centered co-op. We meet one day a week, and those classes drive our curriculum. At co-op my younger children (3rd and 4th grade) take art, science, classical studies, and Latin. Then at home during the week we do Writing With Ease, First Language Lessons, Right Start math, and I read to them using Ambleside Online's lists (and they narrate).

 

At co-op my 7th grader takes Greek (Elementary Greek 2), Latin (Cambridge 2), science (Rainbow), and humanities. At home he does Life of Fred, and supplemental reading for history and literature.

 

At co-op my 9th grader takes Greek (Elementary Greek 3/some other New Testament text), Latin (Lingua Latina - we're on chapter 22), humanities, biology, and Great Books. At home he does Life of Fred for math.

 

As a group at co-op we all do music, recitation, and drama.

 

As you can see, all my children do Latin, and the older ones do Latin and Greek. Our Great Books work is in ancients, and we have so far read the Iliad, Herodotus' Histories, and the Oresteia.

 

Where do we "fall short" of an LCC education? Well, right now we don't have a good writing program going. We have done Classical Writing, but it's been too difficult for me to implement with all of the co-op work. Writing is an area we desperately need to address. Our students do have writing assignments in Great Books and humanities.

 

We will also be following a four-year Great Books rotation, where are more literal LCC education would keep us in the classics for longer.

 

It's working *very* well for us. That said, I'm so very glad I found other moms to handle the Greek for me :) I don't know that we would have kept up with the Greek otherwise.

 

My high schooler this year will have credits for English 9 (literature selections, recitation, writing); World History (not entirely sure what to do with this, as this year he's studied both ancient history and had a survey of history from the early middle ages to the Enlightenment), Latin II, Biology, Geometry ... and I'm not sure what to do about his Greek and the arts portion of humanities. I'm not sure if his Greek work equals a high school credit, and I need to figure that out. I may give him half a humanities or arts credit this year, and half next year.

[freerange]

I believe Galore Park has an Attic Greek program, but it is geared towards older students. .

My 3rd grade dd is very happily using this, although I would qualify that by saying she's very heavily into Greek history & language, so might be more motivated than average to make it work. It's not as hand holding as Lively Latin, but I'm finding that having used LL I'm now applying the same approach to Greek. There's a sample up on the website now http://www.galorepark.co.uk/product/parents/1785/classical-greek-for-beginners.html

[KatieH]

I really love LCC. I don't know how well I've done with implementing it, though. I like the idea of the multum non multa approach, but haven't really put it into practice, I guess. I do go with Latin, English, and Math as our "core," what must be done every day. I do add in supplemental spelling and grammar. We do CW one week, and CHC's Language of God the next. We do CHC's spelling program every day (dd1 is not the best speller, I feel like she really needs a separate program focused just on spelling). We do a light science program, but dd1 is very into science, and reads a lot of science books in her free time. We do history a few days a week (SOTW vol 1 one day, D'Aulaire's another, Christian Studies I the other).

[Halcyon]

Okay, I'm home now.

 

How dos it compare to SWB's approach to classical education? SWB's approach is based on the trivium as stages of learning. SWB's approach is rigorous, and complete, and advocates a strong study of grammar, history, and Great Books.

 

LCC does not use the trivium as an organizing principle. LCC boldly states that a classical education means classical languages, classical works, classical subjects, and the foundational works of our civilization.

 

In practice, though, the two types of days don't look substantially different.

 

I am lucky enough to belong to a Latin-Centered co-op. We meet one day a week, and those classes drive our curriculum. At co-op my younger children (3rd and 4th grade) take art, science, classical studies, and Latin. Then at home during the week we do Writing With Ease, First Language Lessons, Right Start math, and I read to them using Ambleside Online's lists (and they narrate).

 

At co-op my 7th grader takes Greek (Elementary Greek 2), Latin (Cambridge 2), science (Rainbow), and humanities. At home he does Life of Fred, and supplemental reading for history and literature.

 

At co-op my 9th grader takes Greek (Elementary Greek 3/some other New Testament text), Latin (Lingua Latina - we're on chapter 22), humanities, biology, and Great Books. At home he does Life of Fred for math.

 

As a group at co-op we all do music, recitation, and drama.

 

As you can see, all my children do Latin, and the older ones do Latin and Greek. Our Great Books work is in ancients, and we have so far read the Iliad, Herodotus' Histories, and the Oresteia.

 

Where do we "fall short" of an LCC education? Well, right now we don't have a good writing program going. We have done Classical Writing, but it's been too difficult for me to implement with all of the co-op work. Writing is an area we desperately need to address. Our students do have writing assignments in Great Books and humanities.

 

We will also be following a four-year Great Books rotation, where are more literal LCC education would keep us in the classics for longer.

 

It's working *very* well for us. That said, I'm so very glad I found other moms to handle the Greek for me :) I don't know that we would have kept up with the Greek otherwise.

 

My high schooler this year will have credits for English 9 (literature selections, recitation, writing); World History (not entirely sure what to do with this, as this year he's studied both ancient history and had a survey of history from the early middle ages to the Enlightenment), Latin II, Biology, Geometry ... and I'm not sure what to do about his Greek and the arts portion of humanities. I'm not sure if his Greek work equals a high school credit, and I need to figure that out. I may give him half a humanities or arts credit this year, and half next year.

 

This is very enlightening. Thank you for taking the time to post this.

[Halcyon]

My 3rd grade dd is very happily using this, although I would qualify that by saying she's very heavily into Greek history & language, so might be more motivated than average to make it work. It's not as hand holding as Lively Latin, but I'm finding that having used LL I'm now applying the same approach to Greek. There's a sample up on the website now http://www.galorepark.co.uk/product/parents/1785/classical-greek-for-beginners.html

 

 

I also think that there's a Greek for Children out now. Let me look...yes, here it is.

[Mama Lynx]

 

I'm inspired to reread the book now. I tend to be as eclectic in my piecing together of philosophies to follow as my piecing together of materials to use, so I'll likely never be fully LCC. However, I find this philosophy does resonate with me.

 

It's the philosophy that counts. Drew's book illustrates one way of getting it done. Memoria Press' way is a bit different, and there are even differences between the first and second printing of LCC.

 

But TWTM is the same. It's a mistake to get hung up on binders, and schedules, and minutiae: that's not what makes the program work. Get the philosophy, and then whatever you do with that in mind will be LCC, or TWTM. :001_smile:

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

It's the philosophy that counts. Drew's book illustrates one way of getting it done. Memoria Press' way is a bit different, and there are even differences between the first and second printing of LCC.

 

But TWTM is the same. It's a mistake to get hung up on binders, and schedules, and minutiae: that's not what makes the program work. Get the philosophy, and then whatever you do with that in mind will be LCC, or TWTM. :001_smile:

 

This is liberating.

[Halcyon]

This is liberating.

 

:iagree:

[Amy Jo]

Well this is what we are going to be doing (we will try it for a few weeks and see how it works):

 

Circle time - daily. I want this to be fun and not 'schoolish'; all three boys take part. We will do Bible, singing (including AOs hymns and folksongs), either poetry (3x) or artist study or composer study and Spanish. I am going to do literature here too, because I want to break up each chapter and really work on narration skills.

 

Workboxes - core subjects, a snack, piano, and an educational game.

 

Focus area - (M) Nature study & natural history; (Tu) classical history; (W) geography; (Th) American history; (F) science. I decided to plan a weekly science experiment, I'm not confident enough to unschool science. I also scheduled science the day DH will be home to help.

 

Reading - family read aloud for one hour in the afternoon; most of AO's books will be here. So we can have the books without the stress of scheduling them. Eldest two sons will also start reading aloud to me, and hopefully be reading silently daily by summer.

 

I would have loved to have seen your plan to compare and contrast AO and LCC. For me, I have found when trying to get in all the AO readings, I am short-changing the core skills-based subjects. Those seem to get short shrift, and I am frantically moving things along quickly in order to get that chapter of such-and-such read. I don't like that, but I do want to keep some element of AO (the wonderful literature) as part of our day. But how to do that, I'm not sure. :confused: I will follow along to see what else you decide about your scheduling, as I am very interested.

 

I found my notes! I chose 1 week each from the 3rd year of LCC and AO to compare.

 

LCC version 2

 

Daily Subjects - (LCC1 included music practice daily)

 

1. Latin
   
2. Math
   
3. Composition (program includes grammar, writing and other language skills)
   

 

 

Non-daily Subjects (5) - pretty much 1 chapter or activity a week at this level

 

1. Literature (x1)
   
2. Geography (x1)
   
3. Religion (x1)
   
4. Nature Study (x1)
   
5. History (x1)
   

 

 

Ambleside Online

 

Daily Subjects

 

1. Copywork & Narration
   
2. Phonics (if needed)
   
3. Math
   
4. Foreign Language
   
5. Bible
   
6. Poetry
   

 

 

Non-daily Subjects (14+) - I assumed a chapter a day/sitting

 

1. History & Biography; Timeline (x4)
   
2. Science & Nature Study (x3)
   
3. Geography (x1)
   
4. Literature inc. Shakespeare (x4-5)
   
5. Music Appreciation: Hymn, Folksong, Composer (x1 or more)
   
6. Art, Handicrafts & Artist Appreciation (x1 or more)
   

 

 

To me, LCC is simple but gets it done. I LOVE simple. Ambleside has great selections, but it's more to juggle. So I'm working to make AO fit LCC's framework, whatever doesn't fit will be informally read or even *gasp* skipped.

 

HTH someone!

 

Amy

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

Thankyou Amy. That gives me some ideas for how I might break up LBC into a more LCC like day.

 

I heart simple, too.:001_wub:

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I figured I'd come back and share the plan I hammered out for this year. (I will try to remember to come back and update if it doesn't work out).

 

I have Living Books Curriculum's Foundation year which consists of 9(ish) subjects. Their suggested schedule is very CMish with short lessons and more subjects per day than LCC. I may try this approach at some point but currently the LCC schedule is less intimidating for me and I feel more confident that I can do a decent job of the non-core subjects if I only have one to focus on each day.

 

Daily:

Bible

Math

LA (Phonics & writing practice daily + alternating between literature and storytelling)

Music & Movement

 

Weekly:

Nature Study

Art

Science

Picture Study

Geography