I am having a math issue!

[Testimony]

I must admit that I use to rave about Singapore math in the past and did so on these boards. My older son understood concepts very easily and could figure problems out. On the flipside, it is not working for my younger guy. He struggles to understands concepts and Singapore math makes so many conceptual leaps. So, I wanted to ask if anyone knew of another program that would be equivalent to 5A. My son will complete 4B at the end of this year. My serious dilemma is that my younger son wants to continue with Singapore math because his brother did it. He wants to prove that he can do it. Should I continue or go to something different? I never used the HIG with my older son, but I am using it with my younger. It is so hard to switch because on the one hand, my younger son is so close to understanding things in math and he wants to continue in this curriculum, in fact he begged me if I can give him one more chance. So, what to do?:banghead:

 

I wanted to just say that last week, when I was at my homeschool group's music program. I saw a girl doing Teaching Textbook on a lap top. It looked so simple to use. I kept looking over her shoulder. Another child was doing Saxon 65. I asked to look at it. It is similar to 4A/B of Singapore. I thought could I put my son in Saxon76 after Singapore 4A/B? Is it possible? Any suggestions?

 

Can the hive help me out with this one?

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[wapiti]

I don't really belong on this board but apparently I can't help myself - I'll give my two cents anyway. :D

 

If you believe that switching programs is truly necessary for your younger (I have no advice on whether that's the case), maybe consider Math Mammoth, which is supposedly similar to Singapore (Asian/conceptual) but also supposedly makes smaller leaps than Singapore, i.e., the instruction is more incremental. I think if you search you will find threads on switching from Singapore to MM - I don't think it's a difficult switch. Look at the MM TOC for both 5A/B and 6A/B to see what you think.

[Testimony]

I don't really belong on this board but apparently I can't help myself - I'll give my two cents anyway. :D

 

If you believe that switching programs is truly necessary for your younger (I have no advice on whether that's the case), maybe consider Math Mammoth, which is supposedly similar to Singapore (Asian/conceptual) but also supposedly makes smaller leaps than Singapore, i.e., the instruction is more incremental. I think if you search you will find threads on switching from Singapore to MM - I don't think it's a difficult switch. Look at the MM TOC for both 5A/B and 6A/B to see what you think.

 

Thank you that confirms what a friend said to me. She had recommended Math Mammoth also. This has me thinking.

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Capt_Uhura]

I was going to suggest MM as well. However, given your son's attitude about staying w/ SM....... Perhaps tell him that MM is very, very similar to SM but it's easier for you to teach b/c everything is all in one book. While you know he can complete SM, MM would be easier for you...... As SWB says, put the burden on you. See if he buys it. I think the instruction is more incremental than SM.

 

I don't know anything about TT or Saxon.

[MelissaMinNC]

Perhaps tell him that MM is very, very similar to SM but it's easier for you to teach b/c everything is all in one book. While you know he can complete SM, MM would be easier for you...... As SWB says, put the burden on you.

 

:iagree:

 

I switched dd from Singapore to MM this year. She also did not want to switch - she liked Singapore and she doesn't like change. I told her that *I* needed something that was easier for me to teach - which was true, actually, although there were other reasons - the larger conceptual jumps in Singapore for one.

 

Anyway, we transitioned from SM 2B to MM 3A with no problems. I do think it's more incremental, and dd seems to be "getting it" better. She now enjoys MM even more than she did Singapore. I had told her that if she would agree to give it a good try with a positive attitude, then if she absolutely hated it, we could talk about switching back.

 

HTH,

Melissa

[Jenmomof3]

Just another vote for MM. It has been a great switch from SM for my dd who needed a little more step by step instruction and additional practice problems.

[Karen in CO]

before you switch.... Are you doing enough practice with him? Does he do CWP, IP, Extra Practice?

 

What kinds of things is he struggling on? Maybe you can just park on concepts instead of changing programs. Are you doing the mental math from the back of the HIG? daily?

 

Or maybe add an enrichment for what he is having problems with.

[Testimony]

a major consensus for Math Mammoth means I am looking into this math program. I just looked at the 5A/B program it is similar to what my son is learning now with a few differences. I can supplement that. I think that I can put him in this program.

 

Thank you everyone for the great advice!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Testimony]

before you switch.... Are you doing enough practice with him? Does he do CWP, IP, Extra Practice?

 

What kinds of things is he struggling on? Maybe you can just park on concepts instead of changing programs. Are you doing the mental math from the back of the HIG? daily?

 

Or maybe add an enrichment for what he is having problems with.

 

I am glad you asked. I do CWP 3 with him. Since he is in 4A/B in Primary Mathematics, I have him in 3rd level of CWP. He struggles during the challenging word problems section of the program otherwise he is OK.

 

Here is a struggle for him (or maybe it is me): He was ask to write the decimal 2 5/10. He wrote 5/10 like this 5.10. We just went over yesterday the math. He acted like he did not understand. I did talk to him about the place values with fractions. Maybe I should have done that first to refresh his memory. I am so use to my older son who gets it. He does not always. I would explain advance things to my older son and he would say, "I remember, Mommy, when you taught me about money and this is the same idea."

 

Also, the drills, I started doing them at the beginning of this month. I was not keeping up with it. I cracked down on that and started doing a few every morning.

 

The problems with my son is once he learns something, he forgets it the next day. I realize that I have to continually have to reinforce. I guess that is my struggle that I have to keep reinforcing.

 

Thank you very much for this.

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[redsquirrel]

The constant reenforcment makes me think that Saxon could also be something to look into.

 

That said, I have only ever used SM, Miquon and MEP and only have Saxon=reenforcement from things others have said.

 

I hope you find what works for him. That is such a hard place for you both to be.

[Karen in CO]

Also, the drills, I started doing them at the beginning of this month. I was not keeping up with it. I cracked down on that and started doing a few every morning.

 

The problems with my son is once he learns something, he forgets it the next day. I realize that I have to continually have to reinforce. I guess that is my struggle that I have to keep reinforcing.

 

 

The problem maybe that he just needs more reinforcement before he has really learned it. Some kids need more exposure to it than others do. Maybe start each day's lesson with a review of the previous day. Then assign the work from the Extra Practice book that relates to that lesson instead of moving on.

 

Alternately, you could add MM to his SM as extra practice and slow down. The MM lessons have the teaching at the top of each page which sounds like it would really help him.

 

I think that being forced to quit SM might make him feel like he isn't as smart as his brother so supplementing or alternating would be my suggestion instead of switching.

[PeterPan]

Oh the joys of blank looks. We've had that fractions/decimals thing too, so that gave me a chuckle. Besides ditto-ing the MM recommendation, I would add the suggestion that you do the placement test. They're a little long, but you should do it. If he doesn't have something solid, you want to know it. On the ego, I guess I'm utterly insensitive. It's more important that he be successful in learning the material. He'll get over it when he starts to have new success. (say I who haven't yet taught a competitive boy)

 

BTW, we do MM by working across the chapters. So in her daily packet I put a page from each of 5 chapters. You can pick the amount that seems appropriate for your dc. My dd does better with lots of times interacting with the concept, so a bit today, a bit tomorrow, a bit the next, is working out really well for us. That way she doesn't get on auto-pilot and do a whole lesson and promptly forget it.

[Karen in CO]

My sister and I were in the same math class in high school due to the wonders of a small school math rotation. It was the worst school experience we ever had. She is very competitive, but I was better at math. She developed at hatred for math that she never overcame. It made me very sensitive about competition.

[Capt_Uhura]

 

BTW, we do MM by working across the chapters. So in her daily packet I put a page from each of 5 chapters. You can pick the amount that seems appropriate for your dc. My dd does better with lots of times interacting with the concept, so a bit today, a bit tomorrow, a bit the next, is working out really well for us. That way she doesn't get on auto-pilot and do a whole lesson and promptly forget it.

 

I do the same thing! :001_smile: I have tabs for the different sections. I find that little bit each day keeps it fresh. Kind of like muscle confusion in P90X. When he has to change gears for a different topic, he re-engages with it rather than being on autopilot. So I'd rather do 1 page of decimals, 1 page of very large numbers, 1 page of graphing than 3 pages of decimals and move linearly through the program. That might drive many kids batty though but it works for my son.

[Corraleno]

Here is a struggle for him (or maybe it is me): He was ask to write the decimal 2 5/10. He wrote 5/10 like this 5.10. We just went over yesterday the math. He acted like he did not understand. I did talk to him about the place values with fractions. Maybe I should have done that first to refresh his memory. I am so use to my older son who gets it. He does not always. I would explain advance things to my older son and he would say, "I remember, Mommy, when you taught me about money and this is the same idea."

 

The problems with my son is once he learns something, he forgets it the next day. I realize that I have to continually have to reinforce. I guess that is my struggle that I have to keep reinforcing.

Another vote for Math Mammoth. :D

 

MM explains concepts very clearly and explicitly, in a step-by-step way, and I've found that they tend to "stick" better, because the student truly understands the concept and therefore "takes it with him" into the next lesson. Each lesson builds on the previous lesson, so each concept gets incorporated and reinforced in the next one — plus there are a lot more practice problems in each lesson, instead of having to pull together practice pages from the regular workbook + CWP + IP.

 

Also, I think the way MM explains fractions, decimals, and percents, and the relationships between them (e.g., a percent is a decimal, a decimal is a fraction, a fraction is a division problem, etc), is one of the greatest strengths of the program, and really prepares kids for upper level math. Those things may seem self-evident — of course a fraction is a division problem — but many kids only learn to think of 3/4 as being a piece of pizza with a 1/4 missing, and that doesn't help you much when you get to algebra. If you understand the fraction 3/4 also means 3 divided by 4, then algebra will be easier. If you understand that a decimal number is a fraction and a fraction is a division problem and you understand that equivalent fractions are two division problems with the same answer, then you will actually understand why moving the decimal "works" when dividing by a decimal. MM is brilliant at making those kinds of things seem simple and obvious, so those concepts become automatic.

 

As for your DS wanting to prove that he can do math just as well as his brother, I agree with the PP who said to explain that MM is also a rigorous Asian-style math, just in an easier-to-use format. You can even tell him it was written by a Finnish mathematician and that Finland (3rd place) outscored Singapore (5th place) in the math portion of the international (PISA) tests last year. ;)

 

Jackie

[PeterPan]

Hehe, I actually did tell my dd about the author being a Finnish mathematician. I just didn't know about the better test scores. Cool! I don't even remember why it came up. Something about it being harder than what we had done before (and more interesting) even though the material was already familiar.

 

BTW, with MM you can be pre-printed or a pdf. Normally when I have printed pages I just make a book and get it bound at the office supply. This time I punched all the pages (it's a mountain!) to put in a 3" binder and put dividers between the chapters. So when I prepare her week's work, I go through and pull 5 pages (for Mon-Fri) from each of the necessary number of chapters. It gives a nice spread of topics and fresh interaction with each each day. I collate them into stacks and staple as part of her daily work packet. We had done daily work packets in the past, but we're really using it successfully now. So everything for the day that can be hacked and put together is in there. Helps with the scattered thing, clear expectations, and relieves stress on me to drive the next thing. She just looks at her packet and works through. I even chopped up Homer, hehe... What a renegade. :)

 

Oh, I know people keep saying there's more math in the lessons than what you need, but I don't see it. If the author says it, it must be true for some children I suppose. Sure isn't in our house. We do ALL the work, and I chop nothing. But like I said, that lesson is spread over days. The only thing we're not doing are the chapter reviews, and that's because I think I want to save them for a rainy day or whatever occasion where it seems they might be useful.

 

BTW, was it in this thread or another one where a poster mentioned her math file box? It's like the AAS filebox for important review. She said each time they hit a new thing they make an index card. So terms, methods, etc. all get cards to make it quick and easy to review. I DEFINITELY think we're doing this for algebra, mercy. That would be extremely helpful.

[TKDmom]

 

BTW, with MM you can be pre-printed or a pdf. Normally when I have printed pages I just make a book and get it bound at the office supply. This time I punched all the pages (it's a mountain!) to put in a 3" binder and put dividers between the chapters. So when I prepare her week's work, I go through and pull 5 pages (for Mon-Fri) from each of the necessary number of chapters. It gives a nice spread of topics and fresh interaction with each each day. I collate them into stacks and staple as part of her daily work packet. We had done daily work packets in the past, but we're really using it successfully now. So everything for the day that can be hacked and put together is in there. Helps with the scattered thing, clear expectations, and relieves stress on me to drive the next thing. She just looks at her packet and works through. I even chopped up Homer, hehe... What a renegade. :)

 

 

So, do you buy the pre-printed pages, or are you printing them yourself? If I buy it from Lulu, will the book already be bound, or does it come as a packet of worksheets?

 

I'm pretty sure we'll be moving from Singapore to MM, as well. Reading through your post, I am reminded how my dd gets so sick of each topic as we work through the chapter in SM. Whenever we start a new chapter she cheers, but after spending several weeks on the same thing, she hates it. I wonder if splitting up chapters like you suggest would help to keep things interesting.

[Testimony]

The problem maybe that he just needs more reinforcement before he has really learned it. Some kids need more exposure to it than others do. Maybe start each day's lesson with a review of the previous day. Then assign the work from the Extra Practice book that relates to that lesson instead of moving on.

 

Alternately, you could add MM to his SM as extra practice and slow down. The MM lessons have the teaching at the top of each page which sounds like it would really help him.

 

I think that being forced to quit SM might make him feel like he isn't as smart as his brother so supplementing or alternating would be my suggestion instead of switching.

 

I like this idea. I looked at the website. You guys are right. Her explanations are wonderful. I do remember years ago reading Maria Miller and some of her math lessons. I remember how impressed I was with what she had to say about math. Thanks for reminding me.

 

I definitely want to do this now. It will help him to keep his desire of being as good as his brother, but also, it will make me happy knowing that concepts are better explained.

 

Blessing to all!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[PeterPan]

Bonnie, I bought the pdf and printed it on a color laser printer. There have been threads recently about printing MM. If you buy it from Lulu, I think it's perfect bound. I thought that would be too hard to write in for my dd. Spiral bound might have bound fine. Really though, the loose pages that I can put into her daily work packet are perfect for us. Or you could print all the pages and bind them at the office supply. It's nice to have the options!

[MelissaMinNC]

Sorry to hijack, but OhElizabeth, are you saying your dd does 5 pages of MM a day? How long does that take her approx? My dd does 2-3 and usually takes about 45 minutes. I can't imagine trying to do more than that, but I like the idea of working across the chapters. Does that though make this mastery approach into more of a spiral approach, though?

 

We are finishing up 3A and moving into 3B right now, and dd is clamoring to start fractions - which I see are not covered till the last chapter. I was thinking of skipping ahead to that chapter, but maybe I'll just work across, and she'll get enough of fractions to keep her happy, but not be introduced to stuff she's not ready for yet.

 

I'm glad I read this thread!

:)

Melissa

[PeterPan]

Melissa, my dd is probably older than yours. Doing 5 pages across the chapters isn't that bad when they include graphing and lighter subjects. She is slow on her math. I told her as long as it takes under 2 hours I'm happy. It does, never fear, lol. You have to pick an amount and time that fits the dc.

 

We'll see how long it takes her today. She's pretty motivated because she wants to go skating. :)

 

Oh, I guess I should add, all this is material she has seen before. We did the BJU math through 6 and even started the 7, but then we had 9 months off because of VT and lots of therapy. Now we're going back at it and having to refresh things that got rusty.

Edited January 19, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[StephanieZ]

Since your child WANTS to continue Singapore, I'd consider supplementing with a second program.

 

I'd suggest considering Life of Fred Decimals & Percents at this point. (If he was still in 3rd grade, I might consider Miquon, which we've loved, but I think he's nearly past that.)

 

You could either do each program every week, or you could do one book of LoF for a couple months, then back to SM for 5A, then do the other LoF book, then back to 5B.

 

You might be surprised at how little extra time doing a second program will take since they will each go more quickly than they would solo.

 

Another program to consider would be the Key To books. I've found them very helpful as a supplement here or there. I've only used the Algebra & Geometry ones, but you could pick whichever topics seem most in need of reinforcement.