Ds Still Counts on His Fingers

[jibaker103]

My ds is taking Algebra 1 this year through PS online using a Prentice Hall textbook. All 9th graders in TX are required by law to take Algebra 1 so they would not let him enroll in Pre-Algebra even though he only made it through chapter 4 of Lial's BCM with me over the spring and part of the summer before 9th grade.

 

Although my ds seems to grasp the concepts he is still counting on his fingers and making slopy mistakes on his work. Because of some real severe math phobias he is too dependent on me to check his answers instead of being able to self-check and completely freezes if I ask him a question and he doesn't know the answer immediately.

 

Unfortunately when I pulled my son out of the B&M PS halfway through 7th grade and started homeschooling him he placed at the 4th grade level in math. During the middle of the 8th grade fall semester he placed at 6th grade. So, I was feeling confident about turning him around until this road block.

 

I'm thinking that while he continues with Algebra 1 he also needs to review and drill the basics, however, I don't know how to go about it because I do not want to overwhelm him since his current class takes him about 2 hours per day to complete and I am not sure what to use. I do own TT Math 7 and Pre-Algebra with all of the CDs as well as Lial's BCM and Introductory Algebra. I was also considering purchasing the Life of Fred series to tackle math from a different angle. I think he would fall apart if whatever I chose was to time consuming and hard to complete.

 

I'm not sure what to do. All opinions, ideas, and advice welcome!!!

[Pam in MA]

If you're homeschooling, you're still required to take Algebra I in 9th grade, or is it because you're using the online PS course? I don't think thrusting him into Algebra before he's ready is doing him any favors, so could you use materials at his level that are not connected to the PS? Especially since you were seeing progress in the previous year?

[NanceXToo]

I would want to get him out of that class and keep working with him as you were before- you were making progress, and that's great! But like the other poster said putting him into an algebra class before he's ready, especially if he already has severe math phobias, probably isn't helping him or you.

 

If he's REQUIRED to take it in 9th grade, what if you teach it yourself, not online through the public school, or use a much more friendly program (what about Teaching Textbooks for example?)

 

What are your reporting laws like where you live? Here we only have to show samples from each subject in our portfolios at the end of the year. So I'd even consider helping him with just a few algebra worksheets, turning them in as "samples" at the end of the year, but NOT really making him to a full algebra course- I'd just keep working with him as I was (which was obviously being quite effective!) and work him up to algebra again when he WAS ready for it!

 

Another thing to consider, don't you get to decide his grade level? What if you were to say you felt he wasn't ready for 9th grade work and you're putting/holding him back to 8th again? You'd just keep working with him at his level, but for the purposes of the school knowing what "grade" he's in, he wouldn't be in 9th yet?

[Teachin'Mine]

Here's a link to TX homeschooling law from HSLDA:

 

http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/Texas.pdf

 

It doesn't seem that the Algebra I requirement applies to homeschoolers. I agree with others that you should just continue as you were and disenroll him from that online class. As there's no overseeing, from what I read, if you absolutely had to, you could call your course Algebra I, and simply continue where you left off last year. Your scope and sequence for Algebra I is simply a bit different from others, and includes pre-algebra and ends with Algebra I. Next year could be Algebra IB or whatever if there's no requirement for 10th grade. But I don't think any of this applies to your situation as a homeschooler anyway. :)

[klmama]

If he doesn't have to be in that particular online algebra course, I would pull him out of it and teach him from an easier program that will take less of his time. If you are sure he has to take Algebra 1, using TT or MUS would provide a much gentler approach for him, and you'd still have time to work on the basics. If Algebra 1 isn't actually required for 9th grade homeschooled students, I would simply go back to the pre-algebra.

 

Also, FWIW, although BCM is an excellent pre-algebra program, I think you might consider using it more as a resource for you to know how to explain the topics, but give him something more basic to start with for his practice problems, such as those in TT 7 or pre-algebra. He will develop more confidence as he solves those easier problems first, and then, if you want him to, he may be able to solve some from BCM with greater ease and fewer mistakes.

Edited January 18, 2011 by klmama

[LidiyaDawn]

I would want to get him out of that class and keep working with him as you were before- you were making progress, and that's great! But like the other poster said putting him into an algebra class before he's ready, especially if he already has severe math phobias, probably isn't helping him or you.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

(and isn't Texas the state with pretty much no regulations for homeschooling??)

[regentrude]

Nobody can actually LEARN algebra until he has mastered pre-algebra. Whatever issues your son has with math, they are made worse by being in a class he is not prepared for - this is setting him up for failure.

Get him out of that class.

[jibaker103]

I guess I haven't explained myself very well, lol. I'll chalk it up to being overly tired. Let me try to explain what's happening...

 

Ds is in ps online for 9th which is take it or leave it, there is no dropping just 1 class. I cannot declare him 8th grade or he will not be earning any credits for high school. He is in all honors classes except for math. I homeschool courses that the ps online does not offer such as Critical Thinking and Home Economics and supplement classes that I feel are lacking such as whole books for English and hands-on labs for Biology.

 

The Algebra 1 class he is required to take comes in three levels Basic, Regular, and Honors. He is in Basic and just earned a 90% for the 1st semester because the teacher allowed him to go back and redo problems on quizzes and tests and earn half the points back.

 

The problem is that he still counts on his fingers, makes sloppy mistakes in the basics such as multiplying and dividing, and does not check his work for mistakes before submitting.

 

The math phobias I mentioned are things like thinking he is stupid and can never do math and freezing up when he thinks he may be wrong. For example I can put 7x+5=40 on the white board and ask him what is the objective for this type of problem. The answer would be to get x alone on one side of the equal sign. Even though he knows this and has been doing it successfully for over 1 year he will reply I don't know because he is scared of being wrong.

 

So I am wondering if I should be worried about returning to the basics or let him continue to count on his fingers in hopes he will out grow it while moving forward with his Algebra 1 class? If I do go back to the basics what should he use - drill sheets and flashcards, TT, Life of Fred?

 

The phobias are getting a little better because of the self-esteem boost gained from good grades and praise from his teacher but I'm not sure what to do about him checking his work!

 

I hope I have made the situation a little clearer this time around. Thanks for sticking with me through all of this. All advice and ideas welcome!!!

[Tullia]

BTDT with a child who was convinced he was "dumb" in math and dogged with careless errors. For review of basics, how about some kind of computer based drill with immediate feedback? I have no clue about what's out there and best to use these days; maybe someone else will have suggestions.

 

One goal for drill might be to work a short time each day--sort of like practicing scales if you kwim. I'd also suggest that, if possible, you keep it low-key and check up on his performance with the drill only once or twice a week just to give him some space.

 

Nobody likes making careless errors, but sometimes our dc (especially boys, IME) become absentminded when they hit algebra and puberty at the same time. It took my son quite awhile to get to the point where he felt comfortable with math, but it did happen.

 

HTH,

Martha

 

ETA: This will work ONLY if the problem is that he is forgetting to apply concepts which he has been using. If the problem is that he has not mastered pre-algebra concepts he will need more than extra drill. Is his teacher helpful with your questions?

Edited January 18, 2011 by Martha in NM

[Twigs]

I'm 51, BS in physics (lots of math!) and I still count on my fingers. They are very handy :D and quicker than a calculator. I wouldn't worry about that issue so much.

 

Best wishes.

[jennynd]

if he can count fast... what's the big deal?? I have master degree in mechanical engineering and I still count my fingures sometimes

[Tullia]

If you have access to his work, you might try to analyze his mistakes--and/or ask if the teacher has observed a pattern if that's appropriate. Are his mistakes completely random, or does he consistently miss 3 or 4 things? If the mistakes don't show any pattern, something may be distracting him or making him nervous. This may sound like it's coming in from left field, but my ds' focus and accuracy was much improved by taking fish oil supplements. If there is a pattern of errors such as consistently forgetting to apply what he knows about exponents or negatives, you can focus drill and review on the problem areas--preferably one at a time.

[Tullia]

if he can count fast... what's the big deal?? I have master degree in mechanical engineering and I still count my fingures sometimes

 

LOL, me too. Not the engineering degree, but counting on fingers. I was on my high school math competition team, though, and heard plenty of jokes about it.

[jibaker103]

BTDT with a child who was convinced he was "dumb" in math and dogged with careless errors. For review of basics, how about some kind of computer based drill with immediate feedback? I have no clue about what's out there and best to use these days; maybe someone else will have suggestions.

 

One goal for drill might be to work a short time each day--sort of like practicing scales if you kwim. I'd also suggest that, if possible, you keep it low-key and check up on his performance with the drill only once or twice a week just to give him some space.

 

Nobody likes making careless errors, but sometimes our dc (especially boys, IME) become absentminded when they hit algebra and puberty at the same time. It took my son quite awhile to get to the point where he felt comfortable with math, but it did happen.

 

HTH,

Martha

 

ETA: This will work ONLY if the problem is that he is forgetting to apply concepts which he has been using. If the problem is that he has not mastered pre-algebra concepts he will need more than extra drill. Is his teacher helpful with your questions?

Thank you Martha. These are very good ideas to incorporate. I will have to investigate the computer base drills as I don't know of any off the top of my head.

 

Unfortunately ds 6th and 7th grade middle school math teachers did a number on him making him feel depressed and stupid. That is why I pulled him out in the middle of 7th. Online ps was our compromise for this 9th grade year since he wanted to go back to "regular" school, sigh!!!

[jibaker103]

If you have access to his work, you might try to analyze his mistakes--and/or ask if the teacher has observed a pattern if that's appropriate. Are his mistakes completely random, or does he consistently miss 3 or 4 things? If the mistakes don't show any pattern, something may be distracting him or making him nervous. This may sound like it's coming in from left field, but my ds' focus and accuracy was much improved by taking fish oil supplements. If there is a pattern of errors such as consistently forgetting to apply what he knows about exponents or negatives, you can focus drill and review on the problem areas--preferably one at a time.

Mistakes seem to be random: omitting the negative sign when bring down a number, multiplying or dividing wrong, writing the wrong number, leaving a number off, forgetting to reduce a fraction, etc.

 

Ok I'm definitely going to try the fish oil!

[jibaker103]

Twigs, Jenny, and Martha you have reassured me about him counting on his fingers!!! I think counting on his fingers in front of others was a big part of his math phobia. He still gets really embarassed out in public and will not purchase items in fear of having to count change in front of other people.

[OLG]

We went through something like this and my solution (no rotten apples from those opposed to calculators, please) was to have him check his own work using a calculator. When they begin to see their own careless mistakes, it somehow registers much better!! I see nothing wrong with him learning how to check work with a calculator before submitting either. Just my two cents! Give the guy some chance to be successful and he likely will be (not that you aren't!).

 

Mary

[Teachin'Mine]

I think he might benefit from computer drills. There's no human there to see what he gets right or wrong, and he can begin at a very basic level so he can learn to memorize his addition facts at least. Apparently he's not alone in counting on fingers though. :) Having them memorized might go a long way in his math confidence.

 

For making careless errors, I think that's fairly common too. You may want to try having him use graph paper, but the main thing is for him to do his work as neatly and orderly as he can. That can help a lot.

[Lolly]

Ran into the same thing with the new TN diploma regulations. My solution was to give dd a calculator. I did not allow her to use it when just doing/learning the basic operations with +- numbers. She could use it for everything else. She was able to do alg. that way without any trouble. She understood the concepts just fine. (You can continue to work on the basic facts as a separate exercise.)

[jibaker103]

After listening to everyone's wonderful advice, speaking with my son, and really analyzing his ability to keep up in the Algebra 1 ps online class I decided to pull him out of the school completely (it was all or nothing) and homeschool him myself again. A big deciding factor was giving him the TT placement tests for Pre-Algebra and he couldn't pass it.

 

So we have started working on TT Math 7. He is completing 4-5 lessons per day 5 days per week and has scored above 90. I'm sure he will start slowing down when he gets to decimals, fractions, and percents as these are major weaknesses for him.

 

My major concern now is how do I get him through TT Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra II, and Pre-Calculus in enough time for the SAT/ACT and high school graduation? All advice welcome!!